Coronavirus prep
Replies
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GaleHawkins wrote: »I had Moderna #2 shot 46 hours ago and think most of my side effects to this side may be behind me which was mainly feeling tired.
After first shot the side effects may have been more Covid-19 like but had passed after 22 hours leaving me stronger than any time in 2021.
Ever if my sinus infection the first week of Jan 2021 masked Covid-19 at the time as my wife expected at the time I am glad I now have completed my 2 shot Covid-19 vaccination process and have physical proof because how much better I felt and still feel 24 hours after the 1st shot.
Last Wednesday Cancer was ruled out as a cause of my blood issues for the past 5 months.
Post vaccination side effects range from zero to death we read so I think comparing ours with others is without medical value.
I'm glad they ruled out cancer, but did they get closer to figuring out what is causing your problem?2 -
spiriteagle99 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I had Moderna #2 shot 46 hours ago and think most of my side effects to this side may be behind me which was mainly feeling tired.
After first shot the side effects may have been more Covid-19 like but had passed after 22 hours leaving me stronger than any time in 2021.
Ever if my sinus infection the first week of Jan 2021 masked Covid-19 at the time as my wife expected at the time I am glad I now have completed my 2 shot Covid-19 vaccination process and have physical proof because how much better I felt and still feel 24 hours after the 1st shot.
Last Wednesday Cancer was ruled out as a cause of my blood issues for the past 5 months.
Post vaccination side effects range from zero to death we read so I think comparing ours with others is without medical value.
I'm glad they ruled out cancer, but did they get closer to figuring out what is causing your problem?
No. The doctor said he expects the cause most likely will never be known. After the day they pulled 16 vials of blood for testing and got the dye contrast CT scans approval by insurance carrier and all was negative that was as far as the Carrier wanted to go. I never did have a sense that cancer was involved but they wanted to check it out so we did.5 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.
Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.cwolfman13 wrote: »I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.
Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.
I'm going to jump in here and ask what your definition of adverse reactions are?
Generally mild and common reactions are soreness and redness at the injection site, mild symptoms including fever, tiredness and even muscle aches. I know lots of people who experience these
Adverse reactions are anaphylaxis, encephalitis, cardiac arrest. These are extremely rare.
You and I seem to have a very different definition of ”adverse”. Mine is more in line with Merriam-Webster dictionary, thinking that adverse is opposed to one’s interests or causing harm. I’d say headaches, fevers and chills are opposed to most people’s interests and potentially causing harm if they prevent people from fulfilling whatever plans they had for that time.
I would of course list the reactions you mentioned as adverse, but definitely on the more serious side and, thankfully, quite rare.Theoldguy1 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.
Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.
I'm guessing that if we were able to see how many skipped a concert, wedding reception, ballgame or other "fun" event it would be a lot less than 1/3 skipping.
All events, fun or otherwise, have been cancelled for over a year now. Of course I can never know for sure what my colleagues do during weekends, but they’re generally a very work-motivated bunch and I’ve heard multiple recommendations of scheduling the vax appointment for a Friday so a possible reaction doesn’t interfere with work plans.
Or scheduling a vax appointment on Friday to start the weekend early.2 -
The day after my AZ vaccine I did feel fatigue -felt to me like when I used to work night shift and then tried to stay awake next day
Now I could of been imagining that or had it coincidentally from some other cause - but seems to me unlikely since nothing else was different (it wasnt an excuse to call in sick either- I went to work and pushed through.)
I work in a clinic and we have now given around 1000 vaccines - nobody has had serious side effects - however some have had minor side effects, more than just sore arm - fatigue, muscle aches, fever, nausea
Some have had nothing.
Not enough for any concern or reason not to have vaccine - but I also dont think we should dismiss such symptoms as all being imaginary either.7 -
I hope the Delta variant does not make it to anywhere else. With science talk suggesting it is 40-60% more transmissible, effecting youngsters much more than previous ones, it still seems to be slowed by the vaccine so vaccinated persons don't become as ill as they would otherwise. Its the unvaccinated people who are still becoming more ill, needing hospital care. I understand the hesitance, I have not had a flu vaccine since the mid '80's, I had probably what I could call Long flu. When it came to this though. The probability of death, age and health predicted, I made the choice I did before when I said life with t4 only treatment for hashi was no life at all. I'd like to think when the time comes I'll be sitting on a star looking down on everyone in my life but please, please not yet there is too much for me to learn and know let alone do.
When my daughter had her vaccine, I was very concerned for her, the type she was to have had carried the minute possibility of developing clots. The US don't use it. I told myself, back the few months ago, the medics were, had learned so much more, they knew what to do were this sad reaction to happen, how to treat the clots particularly if the person were sensitive to their changes in how they feel and raised the alarm in good time. We like millions more were fine, my daughter is well. I feel for those who are so very precious about their least discomfort, a pin prick and achy arm, you get that with all childhood vaccines, avoiding vaccination against the probability of not running the risk of discovering, when its too late that their encounter with covid has been more than life itself.3 -
Lots of discussion here lately of vaccine reactions. In my immediate family, reactions have been mild to “I’m sick” level and relatively short lived.
As for friends, just in the past week, I have had one friend taken to er by ambulance for what appeared to be seizures. He has never seized before of since and is now legally banned from driving for 6 months. He received the Moderna and did have COVID at Xmas. He has had a neurologist tell him he had an “antibody overload” reaction which purportedly happen at night like his was.
Two days later, talking to another friend, the night after the short she was taken to the er by her husband. I did not get the specifics as my husband who made the call.
I previously mentioned the Italian relative who died. Got more specifics and doctor has stated no connection, but turned out the Pfizer shot was three days before and not day of like we were told by mil and he died of a heart attack during that night according to doctor.
What was frustrating to that first friend is every doctor refused to consider any connection to receiving the vaccine that day. He was told that that was not a documented reaction. the doctors refused to test his antibody levels though they apparently ran every other conceivable test. As for not a “documented” option, how can that even be investigated if never reported. I am wondering if it was not added into the Vaers database for evaluation.
Typing on phone so apologies for poor phrasing and such.6 -
When talking about possible vaccine reactions, I think it's important to remember two things, each kind of supporting opposite sides.
First, not every doctor is an expert, or even understands, virology and vaccine science. And since covid-19 is new, even doctors who have some knowledge of viruses can be no better educated about it than an average layman. So it's quite possible that a primary care or ER doctor might give a patient bad info about covid or not react to a possible vaccine reaction correctly. It will take years for every doctor who might possibly see a patient about covid or one of the many covid vaccines to become experts themselves. I would suggest if anyone has something serious happen to them after vaccination and a doctor blows them off, contact your local public health dept and ask them how to report the possible reaction.
But second, weird symptoms happen to otherwise healthy people all the time. People run a fever, have a seizure, have a stroke, get nauseous, all the time, unexpectedly and without a known cause. Some days I am extremely fatigued, some days my stomach acts up, some days my head hurts, and I'll never know why. With tens of millions of people getting a vaccine in a short period of time, it stands to reason that many people will experience symptoms or even major health issues in the hours and days afterward that have literally nothing to do with the vaccine. They would've happened anyway. Those conditions need to be reported, so that if there are patterns they will be seen and investigated, and compared to typical frequency of that kind of symptom in the population without a vaccine. But the fact that lots of people have something happen after they're vaccinated doesn't mean all of those something's is a reaction to the vaccine.
I'm not at all diminishing people's suffering or suggesting nothing should be blamed on the vaccines. There is no doubt there will be rare but serious reactions to the vaccines, there always are to pretty much any medical intervention, and understanding those cases is important. But we talk a lot on the MFP forum about the difference between correlation and causation, and it applies here as well.
I was listening to a talk awhile ago about how to combat disinformation in public health, and the speaker told a story about his wife who is a pediatrician. A mother brought in her little one for some standard vaccinations, but while still in the waiting room, the child had a seizure and sadly passed away. And his wife realized if she had made an appt an hour earlier, that mom would've been 100% convinced the shot caused the seizure. Even the pediatrician would've wondered if somehow she caused whatever happened.
@SModa61 I'm sorry so many people you know are suffering right now, that is scary! I've known a couple of people who've had one seizure, got through their "probation", and gone for years now symptom free, so I hope your friend experiences the same. I'm not sure how public health systems are set up in other countries, but if he has access to some kind of public health office or disease control dept they should be eager to make sure his experience is included in the data. Keeping the amount of data that slips thru the cracks to a minimum is crucial, but unfortunately a lot of it has in many countries so far!10 -
@kimny72 What is odd is that I have not known anyone with significant COVID or vaccine issues until just these last two weeks. And I fully understand that each may be a coincidence. In the cases of the two very recent stories, one is Florida and the seizure one was Massachusetts treatment but they live and were vaccinated in Connecticut. I suggested they look into Vaers, but I could tell they were not interested in taking that step despite their beliefs and feelings.
Was talking to my daughter a couple hours ago, and she pointed out to me that none of us know if doctors are reporting to Vaers while downplaying to the patient until more is known. Which I would fully understand.
Edit: Just read the first part of your post @Kimny72 and last week I was reading an article stating pretty much exactly what you said. You covered the topic thoroughly!4 -
paperpudding wrote: »The day after my AZ vaccine I did feel fatigue -felt to me like when I used to work night shift and then tried to stay awake next day
Now I could of been imagining that or had it coincidentally from some other cause - but seems to me unlikely since nothing else was different (it wasnt an excuse to call in sick either- I went to work and pushed through.)
I work in a clinic and we have now given around 1000 vaccines - nobody has had serious side effects - however some have had minor side effects, more than just sore arm - fatigue, muscle aches, fever, nausea
Some have had nothing.
Not enough for any concern or reason not to have vaccine - but I also dont think we should dismiss such symptoms as all being imaginary either.
We had our second Pfizer dose yesterday - I feel perfectly fine, my husband has some fever, chills and muscle/joint pain - flu like symptoms.
What is interesting is that my husband came down with a bad bout of vertigo last week. I have had vertigo but he has never had it before. I said to him this morning that it was a good thing that he got it last week because if it had happened after the vaccine we would have probably suspected that as the cause. With thousands of people getting vaccinated every day there are bound to be coincidental health problems that occur.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »The_Enginerd wrote: »Has anyone got their second shot (Pfizer) and NOT had a bad reaction? I am getting mine on Saturday and everyone keeps telling me I am going to be sick from it.
Also wondering if anyone has got their second shot at an extended interval yet - my first shot was three months ago. I think I am in the first cohort here to get the second shot on the extended time frame so not sure how that might influence the side effect situation.
I heard some common reports of adverse reactions the day after the second shot and had planned to take it easy myself the day after my second shot. I got my shot at 7:30 in the morning, did a 90 minute bike ride afterwards, and some automotive work the rest of the day. The next day... nothing. No fever at all. My arm was barely even sore at the injection site. I ended up doing my normally planned long run (15 miles) for the day.
My partner had a nasty headache the evening of her shot, and felt ill the next morning, but was feeling well enough to go out on her bike that afternoon.
Got it 3 hours ago - so far so good. Didn't plan a whole lot for this weekend just in case.
I think that you hear mostly the bad reactions but people don't tend to talk much about mild or non existent reactions. After posting here I see there is a range with the second shot and it isn't necessarily all bad - which was the impression I had before.
I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.
In many cases, I think symptomatic reactions are self induced...they believe it will happen, so it does...basically, power of suggestion. Early on in the vaccine process, we had an issue at one of our mass vaccination centers where several people started having issues during their 15 minute watch period and the site was temporarily shut down...it turns out they were just having anxiety and panic attacks.
Yeah my BIL works in public health and he said once the 12-17 year olds started getting vaccinated it slowed everything down in the clinics because they get a lot more fainters in that age group.
Husband and I both did have mild reactions to the first shot - fatigue and headache for a day and a half. He seems to have had a bit of a worse reaction to our second one yesterday, fever and chills and body pain. I seem to be fine, no reaction of note at all this time.4 -
@kimny72 What is odd is that I have not known anyone with significant COVID or vaccine issues until just these last two weeks. And I fully understand that each may be a coincidence. In the cases of the two very recent stories, one is Florida and the seizure one was Massachusetts treatment but they live and were vaccinated in Connecticut. I suggested they look into Vaers, but I could tell they were not interested in taking that step despite their beliefs and feelings.
Was talking to my daughter a couple hours ago, and she pointed out to me that none of us know if doctors are reporting to Vaers while downplaying to the patient until more is known. Which I would fully understand.
Edit: Just read the first part of your post @Kimny72 and last week I was reading an article stating pretty much exactly what you said. You covered the topic thoroughly!
Thanks
The ER doctor in NYC who does weekly updates on TWIV has expressed concern that he sees patients in his hospital that were not treated correctly by their primary care or urgent care office when they first showed symptoms, especially not treating with monoclonal antibodies ASAP. I think those of us who are putting effort into staying as informed as possible on the internet are often surprised by people, even professionals, who just don't.
He's also both happy and disappointed that practically all his newer covid patients now are unvaccinated. Happy because it means the vaccines are very effective. Disappointed because the majority are people who chose not to get vaxxed yet and so chose to risk exactly what happened. He stresses that while cases and deaths are down significantly, if you put those numbers into the context of happening almost exclusively in the unvaccinated, the percentage risk if you are unvaccinated is just as high as it was last year.9 -
But second, weird symptoms happen to otherwise healthy people all the time. People run a fever, have a seizure, have a stroke, get nauseous, all the time, unexpectedly and without a known cause. Some days I am extremely fatigued, some days my stomach acts up, some days my head hurts, and I'll never know why. With tens of millions of people getting a vaccine in a short period of time, it stands to reason that many people will experience symptoms or even major health issues in the hours and days afterward that have literally nothing to do with the vaccine. They would've happened anyway. Those conditions need to be reported, so that if there are patterns they will be seen and investigated, and compared to typical frequency of that kind of symptom in the population without a vaccine. But the fact that lots of people have something happen after they're vaccinated doesn't mean all of those something's is a reaction to the vaccine.
Exactly.
Three or four days before my shot I started having costochondritis pain again. Had it happened afterwards, you bet your *kitten* I would have blamed the vaccine for triggering it, and I'd have been mightily ticked off considering I just went through three months of costochondritis in the fall. In fact, because the events were so close in time, a few people suggested that the vaccine had induced the inflammation, until I explained that the pain had preceded the shot.
As it was, I experienced absolutely no effects whatsoever from vaccination (Moderna) so of course I'm a little paranoid that it "didn't work".
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I hope the Delta variant does not make it to anywhere else. With science talk suggesting it is 40-60% more transmissible, effecting youngsters much more than previous ones, it still seems to be slowed by the vaccine so vaccinated persons don't become as ill as they would otherwise. Its the unvaccinated people who are still becoming more ill, needing hospital care. I understand the hesitance, I have not had a flu vaccine since the mid '80's, I had probably what I could call Long flu. When it came to this though. The probability of death, age and health predicted, I made the choice I did before when I said life with t4 only treatment for hashi was no life at all. I'd like to think when the time comes I'll be sitting on a star looking down on everyone in my life but please, please not yet there is too much for me to learn and know let alone do.
When my daughter had her vaccine, I was very concerned for her, the type she was to have had carried the minute possibility of developing clots. The US don't use it. I told myself, back the few months ago, the medics were, had learned so much more, they knew what to do were this sad reaction to happen, how to treat the clots particularly if the person were sensitive to their changes in how they feel and raised the alarm in good time. We like millions more were fine, my daughter is well. I feel for those who are so very precious about their least discomfort, a pin prick and achy arm, you get that with all childhood vaccines, avoiding vaccination against the probability of not running the risk of discovering, when its too late that their encounter with covid has been more than life itself.
Delta variant is here in Toronto area - projected to become the dominant strain shortly.5 -
When talking about possible vaccine reactions, I think it's important to remember two things, each kind of supporting opposite sides.
First, not every doctor is an expert, or even understands, virology and vaccine science. And since covid-19 is new, even doctors who have some knowledge of viruses can be no better educated about it than an average layman. So it's quite possible that a primary care or ER doctor might give a patient bad info about covid or not react to a possible vaccine reaction correctly. It will take years for every doctor who might possibly see a patient about covid or one of the many covid vaccines to become experts themselves. I would suggest if anyone has something serious happen to them after vaccination and a doctor blows them off, contact your local public health dept and ask them how to report the possible reaction.
But second, weird symptoms happen to otherwise healthy people all the time. People run a fever, have a seizure, have a stroke, get nauseous, all the time, unexpectedly and without a known cause. Some days I am extremely fatigued, some days my stomach acts up, some days my head hurts, and I'll never know why. With tens of millions of people getting a vaccine in a short period of time, it stands to reason that many people will experience symptoms or even major health issues in the hours and days afterward that have literally nothing to do with the vaccine. They would've happened anyway. Those conditions need to be reported, so that if there are patterns they will be seen and investigated, and compared to typical frequency of that kind of symptom in the population without a vaccine. But the fact that lots of people have something happen after they're vaccinated doesn't mean all of those something's is a reaction to the vaccine.
I'm not at all diminishing people's suffering or suggesting nothing should be blamed on the vaccines. There is no doubt there will be rare but serious reactions to the vaccines, there always are to pretty much any medical intervention, and understanding those cases is important. But we talk a lot on the MFP forum about the difference between correlation and causation, and it applies here as well.
(clipped for length)
Lots of really good points here, but I just want to note that random medical incidents in the wake of the vaccination are more about the difference between coincidence and correlation than the difference between correlation and causation. That is, if you just hear about one friend or family member whose heart attack or seizure or whatever happened in the days or weeks after vaccination, that's just a coincidence for all we know until we study the incidence of such reactions in large numbers of people and find a statistical relationship -- that is, a correlation.
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »When talking about possible vaccine reactions, I think it's important to remember two things, each kind of supporting opposite sides.
First, not every doctor is an expert, or even understands, virology and vaccine science. And since covid-19 is new, even doctors who have some knowledge of viruses can be no better educated about it than an average layman. So it's quite possible that a primary care or ER doctor might give a patient bad info about covid or not react to a possible vaccine reaction correctly. It will take years for every doctor who might possibly see a patient about covid or one of the many covid vaccines to become experts themselves. I would suggest if anyone has something serious happen to them after vaccination and a doctor blows them off, contact your local public health dept and ask them how to report the possible reaction.
But second, weird symptoms happen to otherwise healthy people all the time. People run a fever, have a seizure, have a stroke, get nauseous, all the time, unexpectedly and without a known cause. Some days I am extremely fatigued, some days my stomach acts up, some days my head hurts, and I'll never know why. With tens of millions of people getting a vaccine in a short period of time, it stands to reason that many people will experience symptoms or even major health issues in the hours and days afterward that have literally nothing to do with the vaccine. They would've happened anyway. Those conditions need to be reported, so that if there are patterns they will be seen and investigated, and compared to typical frequency of that kind of symptom in the population without a vaccine. But the fact that lots of people have something happen after they're vaccinated doesn't mean all of those something's is a reaction to the vaccine.
I'm not at all diminishing people's suffering or suggesting nothing should be blamed on the vaccines. There is no doubt there will be rare but serious reactions to the vaccines, there always are to pretty much any medical intervention, and understanding those cases is important. But we talk a lot on the MFP forum about the difference between correlation and causation, and it applies here as well.
(clipped for length)
Lots of really good points here, but I just want to note that random medical incidents in the wake of the vaccination are more about the difference between coincidence and correlation than the difference between correlation and causation. That is, if you just hear about one friend or family member whose heart attack or seizure or whatever happened in the days or weeks after vaccination, that's just a coincidence for all we know until we study the incidence of such reactions in large numbers of people and find a statistical relationship -- that is, a correlation.
Very very true. The parts of the stories that could concern me is if no notice is made of these coincidences (ie doctor reporting info) which would then not provide the data for doctors/scientists to determine if any are actually correlated.4 -
paperpudding wrote: »The day after my AZ vaccine I did feel fatigue -felt to me like when I used to work night shift and then tried to stay awake next day
Now I could of been imagining that or had it coincidentally from some other cause - but seems to me unlikely since nothing else was different (it wasnt an excuse to call in sick either- I went to work and pushed through.)
I work in a clinic and we have now given around 1000 vaccines - nobody has had serious side effects - however some have had minor side effects, more than just sore arm - fatigue, muscle aches, fever, nausea
Some have had nothing.
Not enough for any concern or reason not to have vaccine - but I also dont think we should dismiss such symptoms as all being imaginary either.
We had our second Pfizer dose yesterday - I feel perfectly fine, my husband has some fever, chills and muscle/joint pain - flu like symptoms.
What is interesting is that my husband came down with a bad bout of vertigo last week. I have had vertigo but he has never had it before. I said to him this morning that it was a good thing that he got it last week because if it had happened after the vaccine we would have probably suspected that as the cause. With thousands of people getting vaccinated every day there are bound to be coincidental health problems that occur.
since you quoted me to say this - so I assume your post is in response to mine.
Yes I accept my reaction could of been co incidence due to some other unknown cause - but given it is a known reaction and nothing else was different and this is not something that happens to me regularly - I think it far more likely it was a vaccine reaction.
a mild one and not of concern - but also not to be dismissed.3 -
paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »The day after my AZ vaccine I did feel fatigue -felt to me like when I used to work night shift and then tried to stay awake next day
Now I could of been imagining that or had it coincidentally from some other cause - but seems to me unlikely since nothing else was different (it wasnt an excuse to call in sick either- I went to work and pushed through.)
I work in a clinic and we have now given around 1000 vaccines - nobody has had serious side effects - however some have had minor side effects, more than just sore arm - fatigue, muscle aches, fever, nausea
Some have had nothing.
Not enough for any concern or reason not to have vaccine - but I also dont think we should dismiss such symptoms as all being imaginary either.
We had our second Pfizer dose yesterday - I feel perfectly fine, my husband has some fever, chills and muscle/joint pain - flu like symptoms.
What is interesting is that my husband came down with a bad bout of vertigo last week. I have had vertigo but he has never had it before. I said to him this morning that it was a good thing that he got it last week because if it had happened after the vaccine we would have probably suspected that as the cause. With thousands of people getting vaccinated every day there are bound to be coincidental health problems that occur.
since you quoted me to say this - so I assume your post is in response to mine.
Yes I accept my reaction could of been co incidence due to some other unknown cause - but given it is a known reaction and nothing else was different and this is not something that happens to me regularly - I think it far more likely it was a vaccine reaction.
a mild one and not of concern - but also not to be dismissed.paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »The day after my AZ vaccine I did feel fatigue -felt to me like when I used to work night shift and then tried to stay awake next day
Now I could of been imagining that or had it coincidentally from some other cause - but seems to me unlikely since nothing else was different (it wasnt an excuse to call in sick either- I went to work and pushed through.)
I work in a clinic and we have now given around 1000 vaccines - nobody has had serious side effects - however some have had minor side effects, more than just sore arm - fatigue, muscle aches, fever, nausea
Some have had nothing.
Not enough for any concern or reason not to have vaccine - but I also dont think we should dismiss such symptoms as all being imaginary either.
We had our second Pfizer dose yesterday - I feel perfectly fine, my husband has some fever, chills and muscle/joint pain - flu like symptoms.
What is interesting is that my husband came down with a bad bout of vertigo last week. I have had vertigo but he has never had it before. I said to him this morning that it was a good thing that he got it last week because if it had happened after the vaccine we would have probably suspected that as the cause. With thousands of people getting vaccinated every day there are bound to be coincidental health problems that occur.
since you quoted me to say this - so I assume your post is in response to mine.
Yes I accept my reaction could of been co incidence due to some other unknown cause - but given it is a known reaction and nothing else was different and this is not something that happens to me regularly - I think it far more likely it was a vaccine reaction.
a mild one and not of concern - but also not to be dismissed.
@paperpudding
I quoted you just to continue the discussion on reactions and coincidence, not to imply that yours wasn't a vaccine reaction, I'm sure it was. We had the same reaction to our first shot, fatigue and headaches for a day and a half.
The info about my husband was just an interesting aside of what can/could have happened with coincidental health issues.2 -
https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/vaccine/ct-coronavirus-long-haul-vaccine-relief-20210605-ylltsptl5ferxawxikjzmvr7bi-story.html
This sounds similar to my post Covid-19 vaccination experience.3 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »I had Moderna #2 shot 46 hours ago and think most of my side effects to this side may be behind me which was mainly feeling tired.
After first shot the side effects may have been more Covid-19 like but had passed after 22 hours leaving me stronger than any time in 2021.
Ever if my sinus infection the first week of Jan 2021 masked Covid-19 at the time as my wife expected at the time I am glad I now have completed my 2 shot Covid-19 vaccination process and have physical proof because how much better I felt and still feel 24 hours after the 1st shot.
Last Wednesday Cancer was ruled out as a cause of my blood issues for the past 5 months.
Post vaccination side effects range from zero to death we read so I think comparing ours with others is without medical value.
I'm glad they ruled out cancer, but did they get closer to figuring out what is causing your problem?
No. The doctor said he expects the cause most likely will never be known. After the day they pulled 16 vials of blood for testing and got the dye contrast CT scans approval by insurance carrier and all was negative that was as far as the Carrier wanted to go. I never did have a sense that cancer was involved but they wanted to check it out so we did.
I, too, lament the serious ordeal you have been through this year. Glad you are better! It is sad that the decision to cease diagnostics is a payment one rather than a medical one, but that is our world. At least twice that I recall specifically, MD's have explained to me that sometimes a cause is never known because so many factors are at work that they cannot all realistically be taken into account. Point being sometimes the decision to cease diagnostics is a medical one.2 -
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@SModa61 I'm sorry so many people you know are suffering right now, that is scary! I've known a couple of people who've had one seizure, got through their "probation", and gone for years now symptom free, so I hope your friend experiences the same. I'm not sure how public health systems are set up in other countries, but if he has access to some kind of public health office or disease control dept they should be eager to make sure his experience is included in the data. Keeping the amount of data that slips thru the cracks to a minimum is crucial, but unfortunately a lot of it has in many countries so far!
My dad had a seizure in the recovery room post surgery and the attending neurologist said 10% of adults have one isolated seizure in their lifetimes, and sometimes they don't even realize it. If someone is driving or swimming, it is pretty noticeable. If someone is sleeping or watching TV, they may think they zoned out a minute or might never know. I asked how similar the anatomy of a seizure is to electrical aura with migraines, and he responded, "more similar than anyone wants to admit." One conversation with one doctor, FWIW.6 -
@ahoy_m8 Interesting and thanks. For the person I mentioned, it happened overnight. If I am recalling correctly, his wife a nurse felt it was not a true seizure but that it had a neurological component. I think she said movement was an issue. The er labeled it a seizure. .... Now you have me thinking about my rare painless visual auras. Never bothered to share with my PCP.2
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cwolfman13 wrote: »I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.
Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.
Yeah, nobody would ever think to use that as an excuse to take some time off work? I took a half day off as well mostly as a "just in case" and I was totally fine...and it was a Friday sooooo...
How many of these people skipped some other fun activity? I bet it wasn't 1/3. I also wouldn't call a headache and fatigue for a day a particularly adverse reaction...which seems to be the most common complaint from people who've had some kind of issue after the vaccine.4 -
A point that I have found very interesting during these past 6 months is that for all my life, if I ever complained that I felt icky after a vaccination/shot, I was told it was all in my head. Now, it is commonly believed that it is possible to feel a little poorly after a vaccination. Glad to know i was not crazy all those years when I occasionally felt "off" after a flu vaccine.5
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@kimny72 What is odd is that I have not known anyone with significant COVID or vaccine issues until just these last two weeks. And I fully understand that each may be a coincidence. In the cases of the two very recent stories, one is Florida and the seizure one was Massachusetts treatment but they live and were vaccinated in Connecticut. I suggested they look into Vaers, but I could tell they were not interested in taking that step despite their beliefs and feelings.
Was talking to my daughter a couple hours ago, and she pointed out to me that none of us know if doctors are reporting to Vaers while downplaying to the patient until more is known. Which I would fully understand.
Edit: Just read the first part of your post @Kimny72 and last week I was reading an article stating pretty much exactly what you said. You covered the topic thoroughly!
Thanks
The ER doctor in NYC who does weekly updates on TWIV has expressed concern that he sees patients in his hospital that were not treated correctly by their primary care or urgent care office when they first showed symptoms, especially not treating with monoclonal antibodies ASAP. I think those of us who are putting effort into staying as informed as possible on the internet are often surprised by people, even professionals, who just don't.
He's also both happy and disappointed that practically all his newer covid patients now are unvaccinated. Happy because it means the vaccines are very effective. Disappointed because the majority are people who chose not to get vaxxed yet and so chose to risk exactly what happened. He stresses that while cases and deaths are down significantly, if you put those numbers into the context of happening almost exclusively in the unvaccinated, the percentage risk if you are unvaccinated is just as high as it was last year.
Yes, during my whole tick-born illness saga I encountered an interesting amount of misinformation from doctors. For example, one was not aware that the treatment for Babesiosis is anti-malarial drugs, not antibiotics. This is right there on the CDC page.
https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/babesiosis/health_professionals/index.html#tx
Fortunately, despite thinking I had Babesiosis as it is endemic in my Mom's neighborhood, I did agree to take the antibiotics before we got the test results and my illness did turn out to be Anaplasmosis, which IS treated with antibiotics.6 -
[snip]
I was listening to a talk awhile ago about how to combat disinformation in public health, and the speaker told a story about his wife who is a pediatrician. A mother brought in her little one for some standard vaccinations, but while still in the waiting room, the child had a seizure and sadly passed away. And his wife realized if she had made an appt an hour earlier, that mom would've been 100% convinced the shot caused the seizure. Even the pediatrician would've wondered if somehow she caused whatever happened.
[snip]
You posted this previously and I thought about it a lot last month. I got sick 24 hours after receiving the shingles vaccine. After still being sick 10 days later, I stopped thinking "vaccine reaction" and started thinking "Lyme disease." (Except for the bullseye rash, the symptoms are very similar.)
I wonder what would have happened if I had just said to my doctor, "I'm sick; fix me" instead of "I'm sick and would like to be tested for all the tick-borne illnesses."
If I hadn't been tested for and found to be positive for Anaplasmosis, who knows what I would have thought about the shingles vaccine...8 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.
Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.
Yeah, nobody would ever think to use that as an excuse to take some time off work? I took a half day off as well mostly as a "just in case" and I was totally fine...and it was a Friday sooooo...
How many of these people skipped some other fun activity? I bet it wasn't 1/3. I also wouldn't call a headache and fatigue for a day a particularly adverse reaction...which seems to be the most common complaint from people who've had some kind of issue after the vaccine.
To be honest, I find it quite disrespectful of you and some others in this thread to imply that either I’m naively stupid or my coworkers are lazy liars who take advantage of the situation just to skip work. I have access to everyone’s hour logs, including comments, which clearly state the symptoms they had, and I know these people personally. You don’t. Many have also complained about ruined weekend or evening plans because of vaccine reactions. Don’t know why I’m mentioning this though, since you’ll probably assume they’re just saying that to cover their lies.
Everything is, of course, possible, and workplaces and cultures are different. You just admitted to taking half a day off and starting your weekend early just because you had the convenient excuse of getting vaccinated. At a different job, I might do the same thing. My colleagues just tend to be motivated and committed enough to not do that, and I frequently see evening/weekend hours logged by someone catching up after an absence, even though nobody is expecting or requesting that. Workplaces here are legally required to give pregnant employees paid time off to attend maternity healthcare appointments. I could book them in the middle of the day and take 2-3 hours per appointment to get there, have the appointment and get back. Instead, I voluntarily book them either first thing in the morning or last thing in the afternoon to be efficient, and usually end up covering those hours some other day on the week of the appointment, because I care more about my job and getting everything done than maximising potential paid time off. Most of my colleagues share this mindset, even though nobody is expecting it or pressuring us in any way.
On a different note, the neighboring city (where most of my friends live) opened vaccinations for my age group today - some of my friends booked their appointments at midnight and already received their first shot today. In my city the age group should open next week.13 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.
Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.
Yeah, nobody would ever think to use that as an excuse to take some time off work? I took a half day off as well mostly as a "just in case" and I was totally fine...and it was a Friday sooooo...
How many of these people skipped some other fun activity? I bet it wasn't 1/3. I also wouldn't call a headache and fatigue for a day a particularly adverse reaction...which seems to be the most common complaint from people who've had some kind of issue after the vaccine.
To be honest, I find it quite disrespectful of you and some others in this thread to imply that either I’m naively stupid or my coworkers are lazy liars who take advantage of the situation just to skip work. I have access to everyone’s hour logs, including comments, which clearly state the symptoms they had, and I know these people personally. You don’t. Many have also complained about ruined weekend or evening plans because of vaccine reactions. Don’t know why I’m mentioning this though, since you’ll probably assume they’re just saying that to cover their lies.
To be honest you must work with a group of unicorns because that is not the way it is in most of the real world.9 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.
Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.
Yeah, nobody would ever think to use that as an excuse to take some time off work? I took a half day off as well mostly as a "just in case" and I was totally fine...and it was a Friday sooooo...
How many of these people skipped some other fun activity? I bet it wasn't 1/3. I also wouldn't call a headache and fatigue for a day a particularly adverse reaction...which seems to be the most common complaint from people who've had some kind of issue after the vaccine.
To be honest, I find it quite disrespectful of you and some others in this thread to imply that either I’m naively stupid or my coworkers are lazy liars who take advantage of the situation just to skip work. I have access to everyone’s hour logs, including comments, which clearly state the symptoms they had, and I know these people personally. You don’t. Many have also complained about ruined weekend or evening plans because of vaccine reactions. Don’t know why I’m mentioning this though, since you’ll probably assume they’re just saying that to cover their lies.
To be honest you must work with a group of unicorns because that is not the way it is in most of the real world.
Call me a unicorn then, because that's how I am. I do the exact same thing, book appointments at the beginning or end of the day to minimize lost work time. My first shot was during my vacation time, and the second one is booked for a stat holiday.
I have "use it or lose it" sick time, it doesn't accrue or carry over. Most years I lose it. I used a week in 1998 for chicken pox, three days in 2015 because I was on IV antibiotics and they didn't want me in the office with an IV in my arm, and a week this year for a ruptured appendix. The only other sick time I've used in 33 years is to attend medical appointments.
I'm not going to use sick time if I'm not sick, and I rarely am.10 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.
Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.
Yeah, nobody would ever think to use that as an excuse to take some time off work? I took a half day off as well mostly as a "just in case" and I was totally fine...and it was a Friday sooooo...
How many of these people skipped some other fun activity? I bet it wasn't 1/3. I also wouldn't call a headache and fatigue for a day a particularly adverse reaction...which seems to be the most common complaint from people who've had some kind of issue after the vaccine.
To be honest, I find it quite disrespectful of you and some others in this thread to imply that either I’m naively stupid or my coworkers are lazy liars who take advantage of the situation just to skip work. I have access to everyone’s hour logs, including comments, which clearly state the symptoms they had, and I know these people personally. You don’t. Many have also complained about ruined weekend or evening plans because of vaccine reactions. Don’t know why I’m mentioning this though, since you’ll probably assume they’re just saying that to cover their lies.
To be honest you must work with a group of unicorns because that is not the way it is in most of the real world.
Call me a unicorn then, because that's how I am. I do the exact same thing, book appointments at the beginning or end of the day to minimize lost work time. My first shot was during my vacation time, and the second one is booked for a stat holiday.
I have "use it or lose it" sick time, it doesn't accrue or carry over. Most years I lose it. I used a week in 1998 for chicken pox, three days in 2015 because I was on IV antibiotics and they didn't want me in the office with an IV in my arm, and a week this year for a ruptured appendix. The only other sick time I've used in 33 years is to attend medical appointments.
I'm not going to use sick time if I'm not sick, and I rarely am.
Yeah, in my experience, that "use any excuse" thing is far from universal. I was a manager for quite a few years of my career, so had a pretty good knowledge of people's working hours, productivity, usage of leave time, in an environment where there was not a clock in/out requirement, and there was schedule flexibility, so there were opportunities for employees to goldbrick.
There were always a few people who'd use up any leave time virtually as soon as they got it, and cut corners on working hours where they could. There were also people who'd work extra hours to do a better job, routinely, and sometimes show up when they should've stayed home for the good of the collective (e.g. probably contagious).
Personally, I retired with many hours of accumulated sick time (we could accumulate it indefinitely, get paid for half of it on retirement, I had 4-digits of hours, despite having used a bunch of sick time during most of a year of cancer treatment (but I did keep working throughout, when doctors permitted, and when I was able). I lost hundreds of hours of vacation time over the years, because with more seniority it accumulated fast enough that I couldn't use it all when working on intense systems projects. (We could only accumulate a bit over one year's vacation hours, and I was earning 2 days a month, by the end.)
Some other people did about what I did. Some people had to take unpaid time when they had a medical crisis, because they'd called in sick too many Mondays or Fridays to get a long weekend. (Same people tended to borrow against their retirement accounts . . . .).
Do people take the cynical view of others' vaccine-related time off, because of how they looked at it themselves? Or because they work in companies where the overall culture is a lack of commitment? I dunno. But I'd expect most people among my coworkers not to goldbrick over a vaccination in that way.7 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.
Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.
Yeah, nobody would ever think to use that as an excuse to take some time off work? I took a half day off as well mostly as a "just in case" and I was totally fine...and it was a Friday sooooo...
How many of these people skipped some other fun activity? I bet it wasn't 1/3. I also wouldn't call a headache and fatigue for a day a particularly adverse reaction...which seems to be the most common complaint from people who've had some kind of issue after the vaccine.
as someone who did have fatigue for 24 hours ish after the vaccine - No I dont call it a particularly adverse reaction either - went out of my way to say it was a mild reaction, in fact - but neither do I think it should be dismissed as imaginary or not worth mentioning or just an excuse (wasnt an excuse for anything in my case, I went to work next day and pushed through, going to bed straight afterwards )
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