Coronavirus prep
Replies
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cwolfman13 wrote: »The CDC isn't just declaring the science, it is translating the science into public policy.
Most of the pros I listen to say that the risk to a vaccinated person, as things currently stand, is quite small. They are however concerned that if all the vaccinated stop wearing masks, the unvaccinated will too. That means we'll never get to herd immunity and COVID-19 will remain this simmering risk that could mutate into something that breaks through vaccine protection at some point. So they are concerned the CDC jumped the gun. They support the science but aren't sure about the public policy decision.
Community protection comes from herd immunity. And even for a vaccinated person, vaccines aren't 100%, it's herd immunity that covers your butt for that remaining small percentage of risk. IMHO public policy should be crafted to support herd immunity, and I'm not sure the CDC decision did that. Obviously, lots of people disagree with that, and I'm not in charge of anything lol. Just an armchair quarterback hoping we can put this behind us as quickly as possible.
Most stores here switched to "masks recommended" or "we would appreciate all unvaccinated people to wear masks" or something similar. Virginia dropped all occupancy restrictions last week, and masks are only required on public transportation I think. I'd say still well over half the folks at the grocery store are still wearing masks, and we have a halfway decent vaxx rate around here too.
I think they are thinking that it helps encourage vaccination to show that there are benefits -- like no more masks -- to being vaccinated, vs it seeming like nothing changes. Of course those of us who consider the protection a benefit see that as odd, but for the more reluctant folks.
My office is asking people to show their proof of vaccination if you want to go maskless in public spaces.
Yeah, my office is requiring that a copy of your vaccination card be submitted to HR to be considered fully vaccinated. It is required if you want to be able to be maskless at the office; anyone who is maskless in the office and is determined to not be fully vaccinated is subject to a week suspension without pay. Proof of vaccination is also required for personal or business travel without quarantine on return; though international travel regardless of vaccination status still requires quarantine.
We still have several people at the office who are in fact vaccinated fully but refuse to provide a copy of their card to HR. This makes little sense to me...as someone in a high level executive position with access to personnel files, there is way more sensitive information in them than a little card from the NMDOH showing the two dates of your vaccination...that's literally all it shows on the card. Very similar to when a doctors note is required for an extensive (more than 3 days) absence due to illness or a doctor's note clearing someone to return to work after a surgery or something.
Yep, it's just like HR requiring a doctor's note specifying why you need a long absence or some special allowance on site for a medical condition. That note detailing your med condition is kept on file, and probably has far more private info than your covid-19 vaccine card.
Our HR dept is in the corporate office, and their policy is to keep vaccine info at the local office level. So employees are to provide a copy of their card to the GM and he is keeping a list. He says we are 85% vaccinated, which means 6 employees have not provided it and will need to continue to mask. No policy has been announced as to what happens if they don't. I think our GM is hoping it won't be an issue. But two of those employees have told coworkers they are both anti vaxx and anti mask. It will be interesting to see how long the policy goes on and if they are willing to mask the whole time. I also know a couple of high risk coworkers who are vaxxed but will mask on site in an abundance of caution.
FYI we were told that while a company is within it's rights to ask about vaccine and have attendance/behavior policy based on it, we are not allowed to ask interviewees if they are vaccinated, as you are not allowed to discriminate in hiring based on that.
That's interesting. Is it a state thing? There was an interview on a statewide (Michigan) public radio program here recently, with an expert on that area of law. I admit I was only loosely paying attention (I don't have employees 😉), but I was under the impression that employers could make vaccination a condition of employment. I'm not sure whether that was something they could ask about in an interview, or something that would be part of the new-employee intake process and a hard disqualifier to actual hiring (which is how drug tests were, last I knew).
It's possible it is a company policy. They have stations in several states, so maybe it's the requirement in the most stringent place or just being overly cautious about possible lawsuits!0 -
FYI we were told that while a company is within it's rights to ask about vaccine and have attendance/behavior policy based on it, we are not allowed to ask interviewees if they are vaccinated, as you are not allowed to discriminate in hiring based on that.
Thats interesting.
Here in Australia relevant occupations can require proof of relevant vaccinations already - way before and not to do with Covid - and this certainly applies to prospective employees in most health fields
One must have up to date flu vaccine and whooping cough vaccine and proof of vaccination (or serological immunity) for MMR, Varicella, Hep B.
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We have a big football game on here this weekend with almost 30,000 people attending. There is no mask requirement here right now since we've had zero community transmission so far but this is not a great idea. People will come from other towns or from other states and might bring Covid here.
Australia is dismally behind with the vaccination roll out and there is a break out in Victoria of the Indian variant right now. Since some from there bolted in caravans to other states to get away before lockdown who knows what will happen. Not happy about this one bit. Glad I've had at least one shot.11 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »The CDC isn't just declaring the science, it is translating the science into public policy.
Most of the pros I listen to say that the risk to a vaccinated person, as things currently stand, is quite small. They are however concerned that if all the vaccinated stop wearing masks, the unvaccinated will too. That means we'll never get to herd immunity and COVID-19 will remain this simmering risk that could mutate into something that breaks through vaccine protection at some point. So they are concerned the CDC jumped the gun. They support the science but aren't sure about the public policy decision.
Community protection comes from herd immunity. And even for a vaccinated person, vaccines aren't 100%, it's herd immunity that covers your butt for that remaining small percentage of risk. IMHO public policy should be crafted to support herd immunity, and I'm not sure the CDC decision did that. Obviously, lots of people disagree with that, and I'm not in charge of anything lol. Just an armchair quarterback hoping we can put this behind us as quickly as possible.
Most stores here switched to "masks recommended" or "we would appreciate all unvaccinated people to wear masks" or something similar. Virginia dropped all occupancy restrictions last week, and masks are only required on public transportation I think. I'd say still well over half the folks at the grocery store are still wearing masks, and we have a halfway decent vaxx rate around here too.
I think they are thinking that it helps encourage vaccination to show that there are benefits -- like no more masks -- to being vaccinated, vs it seeming like nothing changes. Of course those of us who consider the protection a benefit see that as odd, but for the more reluctant folks.
My office is asking people to show their proof of vaccination if you want to go maskless in public spaces.
Yeah, my office is requiring that a copy of your vaccination card be submitted to HR to be considered fully vaccinated. It is required if you want to be able to be maskless at the office; anyone who is maskless in the office and is determined to not be fully vaccinated is subject to a week suspension without pay. Proof of vaccination is also required for personal or business travel without quarantine on return; though international travel regardless of vaccination status still requires quarantine.
We still have several people at the office who are in fact vaccinated fully but refuse to provide a copy of their card to HR. This makes little sense to me...as someone in a high level executive position with access to personnel files, there is way more sensitive information in them than a little card from the NMDOH showing the two dates of your vaccination...that's literally all it shows on the card. Very similar to when a doctors note is required for an extensive (more than 3 days) absence due to illness or a doctor's note clearing someone to return to work after a surgery or something.
Yep, it's just like HR requiring a doctor's note specifying why you need a long absence or some special allowance on site for a medical condition. That note detailing your med condition is kept on file, and probably has far more private info than your covid-19 vaccine card.
Our HR dept is in the corporate office, and their policy is to keep vaccine info at the local office level. So employees are to provide a copy of their card to the GM and he is keeping a list. He says we are 85% vaccinated, which means 6 employees have not provided it and will need to continue to mask. No policy has been announced as to what happens if they don't. I think our GM is hoping it won't be an issue. But two of those employees have told coworkers they are both anti vaxx and anti mask. It will be interesting to see how long the policy goes on and if they are willing to mask the whole time. I also know a couple of high risk coworkers who are vaxxed but will mask on site in an abundance of caution.
FYI we were told that while a company is within it's rights to ask about vaccine and have attendance/behavior policy based on it, we are not allowed to ask interviewees if they are vaccinated, as you are not allowed to discriminate in hiring based on that.
That's interesting. Is it a state thing? There was an interview on a statewide (Michigan) public radio program here recently, with an expert on that area of law. I admit I was only loosely paying attention (I don't have employees 😉), but I was under the impression that employers could make vaccination a condition of employment. I'm not sure whether that was something they could ask about in an interview, or something that would be part of the new-employee intake process and a hard disqualifier to actual hiring (which is how drug tests were, last I knew).
It's possible it is a company policy. They have stations in several states, so maybe it's the requirement in the most stringent place or just being overly cautious about possible lawsuits!
I got curious about this. I think the program I was thinking of may've been US national, NPR's Marketplace, this story:
https://www.marketplace.org/2021/05/28/how-effective-are-employer-vaccine-mandates/
After going down a rabbit hole, I found this guidance document from US EEOC:
https://www.eeoc.gov/wysk/what-you-should-know-about-covid-19-and-ada-rehabilitation-act-and-other-eeo-laws
A key quote is:K.1. Under the ADA, Title VII, and other federal employment nondiscrimination laws, may an employer require all employees physically entering the workplace to be vaccinated for COVID-19? (5/28/21)
The federal EEO laws do not prevent an employer from requiring all employees physically entering the workplace to be vaccinated for COVID-19, subject to the reasonable accommodation provisions of Title VII and the ADA and other EEO considerations discussed below. These principles apply if an employee gets the vaccine in the community or from the employer.
(As far as I could see, none of the "considerations discussed below" changed the overall tenor. Fundamentally, they deal with things like people with religious objections to vaccinations, and people with a medical condition that prevents their being safely vaccinated. Both of of those classes require "reasonable accommodation", which will be a familiar term to anyone HR-ish, but if others care, it's explained a little bit in the document linked.) Not sure exactly how it fits into hiring, but it's pretty clear that an employer can require vaccination of employees, with limited exceptions.
I know, it seems nutty that I'd look this up. A big chunk of my career involved doing systems support for a large organization's payroll and HR systems, so I'm loosely familiar with a lot of HR stuff. That made me curious about how something like this fit into the picture. 🤷♀️ Plus I have a bad tendency to get curious about really any random glittery-seeming thing that wanders into my field of vision sometimes. 😆7 -
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Re: asking interviewees about vaccines and medical information - I’m not sure about covid vaccinations specifically, but at least here some medical staff is required to stay vaccinated so I think they can be asked since it’s relevant to their jobs. Every year or two there’s some anti-vaxxing nurse throwing a fit in the media because their employer requires certain vaccinations (like the flu shot) and they don’t want to. My personal opinion on that matter is that if you refuse to get vaccinated to stop killing your patients, you need to find another job since you knew fully well this is part of the job. This is not an absolute fact, but I think the vaccination thing isn’t even a thing throughout the medical field, only in positions where infectious diseases would be extra dangerous because patients are immunocompromised or you could cause a larger epidemic, so it’s not even like you would be banned from practicing your profession altogether.
In general medical information can only asked about when it’s relevant to the job, like firefighters can be required to get a physical and so on. If you want to do some drug testing, psychological analysis etc., you need to send the recruit to an external test provider and they will only give you a yes/no answer based on the test, no diagnosis or exact results. Many jobs here send people in for a doctor’s evaluation after hiring, to make sure there are no underlying issues that could prevent doing the work or that can be blamed on the employer. I’ve been to a couple of these evaluations myself, and the certification you get from these hour-long evaluations pretty much just says ”X is fit to work” with zero medical information. I don’t know what it would say if I had some issues.
Covid vaccinations can’t really be asked about yet, as our rollout hasn’t proceeded through all age groups yet and age is one of the things you can’t ask in an interview unless it’s for some reason relevant to the job. 35-39 booking opened yesterday. I also got some personally awesome news yesterday, as the local authorities declared it OK for pregnant women to get vaccinated! I’ll still call my maternity provider to check the vaccine is safe to combine with my specific pregnancy-related complications, but if I’m cleared by them I’ll be booking as soon as my age group opens.10 -
Mockchco - I think you will probably discover those persons were probably required to have a covid test prior to attending the game. They will also be required to be tested again a given number of days after the game. There have been a couple of events I've heard of here in Europe, the organisers were trying to discover the problems associated with the meeting of larger numbers of people. I think the number after a concert testing positive in the north UK were 5. Those cases might not have come from attending the concert itself but from other activity in those days. This seems to show, where numbers are low and everyone is pre tested the risks are low. I do understand concerns, its only natural.0
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Fuzzipeg No i dont think so.
Places in Australia where they have had outbreaks have played to empty stadiums - or to reduced capacity or almost full capacity depending on the state and the current covid situation there.
have not heard of spectators having covid tests prior.
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We have a big football game on here this weekend with almost 30,000 people attending. There is no mask requirement here right now since we've had zero community transmission so far but this is not a great idea. People will come from other towns or from other states and might bring Covid here.
Australia is dismally behind with the vaccination roll out and there is a break out in Victoria of the Indian variant right now. Since some from there bolted in caravans to other states to get away before lockdown who knows what will happen. Not happy about this one bit. Glad I've had at least one shot.
It's so nerve-wracking even when there's no current cases! I went to a concert back in February with 30k people (Wellington, NZ), and the very next day we had a lockdown announcement (the cluster then was Auckland-based, but as you say, people travel for these events).
Our travel bubble is "paused" with Victoria now too - but some kiwis had returned just before the latest lockdown, and last I heard some still hadn't responded to attempts to contact them.
We're a bit slow on vaccination here too - I get that we don't have quite the same urgency that other countries do, as we are currently doing well, but as the world vaccinations progress and things potentially start to open up, we need to be up with the program!
I am lucky enough to have got mine already due to DH's work, but not many people I know have had even one dose yet (all Pfizer here).2 -
Has anyone got their second shot (Pfizer) and NOT had a bad reaction? I am getting mine on Saturday and everyone keeps telling me I am going to be sick from it.
Also wondering if anyone has got their second shot at an extended interval yet - my first shot was three months ago. I think I am in the first cohort here to get the second shot on the extended time frame so not sure how that might influence the side effect situation.2 -
Has anyone got their second shot (Pfizer) and NOT had a bad reaction? I am getting mine on Saturday and everyone keeps telling me I am going to be sick from it.
Also wondering if anyone has got their second shot at an extended interval yet - my first shot was three months ago. I think I am in the first cohort here to get the second shot on the extended time frame so not sure how that might influence the side effect situation.
I didn't have what I think of as a bad reaction . . . my arm was pretty sore and I felt like I was on the verge of getting sick the day afterward, but it wasn't bad enough to change any of my regular activities. Oh, and my subsequent period was very heavy, but I'm in my forties so that could just be perimenopause. Either way, there wasn't anything that I would consider bad.3 -
Has anyone got their second shot (Pfizer) and NOT had a bad reaction? I am getting mine on Saturday and everyone keeps telling me I am going to be sick from it.
Also wondering if anyone has got their second shot at an extended interval yet - my first shot was three months ago. I think I am in the first cohort here to get the second shot on the extended time frame so not sure how that might influence the side effect situation.
My second shot from Pfizer wasn't as bad as the first. I was sick with light flu like symptoms for around four or five days after the first shot.
The second one had no effect, other than feeling like I wanted to sleep for 24 hours.3 -
Has anyone got their second shot (Pfizer) and NOT had a bad reaction? I am getting mine on Saturday and everyone keeps telling me I am going to be sick from it.
Also wondering if anyone has got their second shot at an extended interval yet - my first shot was three months ago. I think I am in the first cohort here to get the second shot on the extended time frame so not sure how that might influence the side effect situation.
I had no reaction to either the first or second shot. I felt completely normal...went home and had pizza and a movie and I was in the gym the next morning at 8 and then met up with some friends to go mountain biking later that afternoon. Zero issues.7 -
@janejellyroll @MikePfirrman @cwolfman13
Thanks that makes me feel better. My arm was barely sore for the first one, my husband and I both just had 1 1/2 days feeling sleepy and a little "off". I keep hearing the second one is worse but hopefully it will be fine for both of us.4 -
It's so weird to see Las Vegas operate with no restrictions in place now!
Would any of you go?3 -
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Has anyone got their second shot (Pfizer) and NOT had a bad reaction? I am getting mine on Saturday and everyone keeps telling me I am going to be sick from it.
Also wondering if anyone has got their second shot at an extended interval yet - my first shot was three months ago. I think I am in the first cohort here to get the second shot on the extended time frame so not sure how that might influence the side effect situation.
It seems pretty random...My parents, brother, and sister had no reaction to the second Pfizer.
My department at work (8 people) all got Pfizer.
2 people had no reaction to the 2nd shot.
4 people had one day of mild/moderate symptoms.
2 people couldn't get out of bed for a day and a half.
All of these people did the 3-week interval, so not sure if the extended timeframe affects anything.
Plan for the worst, but hope for the best.5 -
It's so weird to see Las Vegas operate with no restrictions in place now!
Would any of you go?
I don't like crowded places in normal times. Vacations to places like Vegas, Disney, other theme parks, didn't appeal to me before, but feel like more of a nightmare now.
My tolerance for the general public has definitely taken a hit over the last year-plus.12 -
It's so weird to see Las Vegas operate with no restrictions in place now!
Would any of you go?
NO!!!! I am fully vaccinated but I am planning to stay away from very crowded places for awhile. Actually, and if it was for me, for ever. The exception will be a plane ride to Hawaii
. Besides, and living in California, I have been in Vegas so many time that it doesn't appeal to me that much anymore.
@ 33gail33
With respect to the Pfizer vaccine, my husband and I got our Pfizer shots back in February and with both of them got sore arms (more with the first than with the second jab), and more tired after the second shot. We both took naps the day after. Thankfully, we got no chills, fever, or flu like symptoms.
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