Coronavirus prep
Replies
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kshama2001 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »My sister's boyfriend works at a pharmacy in a city with a mask ordinance still in place. A customer came in with no mask and another clerk said something. His response was that the CDC says vaccinated people don't need to wear masks and he has had 1 vaccine, so he figures he is close enough. She said it doesn't matter and city ordinance still requires a mask. He got mad, yelled, punched and broke the plexiglass divider. Manager threw him out. I would have prosecuted him if I was the manager.
Yes, I'm surprised to not be hearing about more of these types of incidences. I think it was expecting too much that Americans act like adults.
Here in Massachusetts, everywhere my partner and I have gone (which is not very many places) masks are still required.
However, the supermarket I went to today had removed the one way aisle requirements, HOORAY!
Massachusetts does still require masks, but that will change on May 29th. And after May 29, face coverings will still be mandatory for all people on rideshares, livery, taxi, ferries, MBTA, commuter rail, transportation stations, in health care facilities and in congregate care settings. Massachusetts will be the last of the New England states to list the ban. The Governor did say that businesses will be allowed to set their own rules for vaccinations or masks as they see fit.
In my grocery store today, still one entrance and one exit. Did see some one way stickers on the floor, but I typically ignore if no one is in the aisle. I did also note their recording is still going. I know it talks about only one family member in the store. I think it also mentioned the one way aisles. This was also in Massachusetts, Stop & Shop.
Thanks! I haven't been following state news. I've been sick for two weeks - I probably have Lyme or other tick-born illness
Test results will be back next week.
At first I thought it was a reaction to the shingles vaccine, cuz all my symptoms were listed, but it went on and on and on and on...15 -
We’re mask optional (unless business posts a sign requiring them, in hospitals, etc). I don’t mind wearing in a store, but I am thrilled not to have to wear one when climbing.
My first time back to climbing gym in over a year I had to wear one and I definitely felt like I couldn’t catch my breath once mask got sweaty and I was breathing hard from exertion. Nothing like clinging to a wall feeling like you can’t breathe to make a workout enjoyable. But this weekend I can climb until my fingers give out, not until I feel like I’m having a panic attack! (Usual disclaimer: been fully vaccinated for over a month)5 -
Whoa, things have been happening here.
@lemurcat2 I’m a lawyer too, and have never needed a notary for anything here in Finland. You need some sort of authorized confirmation to buy or sell land (real estate), but that’s it. Usually if a legal document needs to be authorized or confirmed, any two legally independent adults can sign witness to prove that you have willingly and knowingly signed the document. These witnesses can be any adults who don’t have a conflict of interest in the matter - for example, prenuptial agreements need such witnesses here to be valid, so our lawyer best man and lawyer maid of honor witnessed our signatures and then we took them out for drinks. No notary services needed.
There seem to be plenty in Finland, so I wonder why: https://dvv.fi/en/services-of-notary-public
https://www.apostille.org/project/apostille-finland/
https://www.hel.fi/helsinki/en/housing/plots-land-buildings/surveying/real-estate-formation/notary-services/notary-services
"A notary serves as the certifying authority when the transfer document is signed in real estate transfer transactions. The transfer can be a contract of sale, an exchange or a gift. A pre-contract for a contract of sale also requires certification by a notary."
Anyway, people don't commonly need notaries in the US, and less than they used to, but title companies commonly have notaries, so do banks, and many legal secretaries and paralegals are notaries, so generally it's no inconvenience even if you need one. Thus, the idea it's some hardship about living in the US would be wrong.4 -
Whoa, things have been happening here.
@lemurcat2 I’m a lawyer too, and have never needed a notary for anything here in Finland. You need some sort of authorized confirmation to buy or sell land (real estate), but that’s it. Usually if a legal document needs to be authorized or confirmed, any two legally independent adults can sign witness to prove that you have willingly and knowingly signed the document. These witnesses can be any adults who don’t have a conflict of interest in the matter - for example, prenuptial agreements need such witnesses here to be valid, so our lawyer best man and lawyer maid of honor witnessed our signatures and then we took them out for drinks. No notary services needed.
There seem to be plenty in Finland, so I wonder why: https://dvv.fi/en/services-of-notary-public
https://www.apostille.org/project/apostille-finland/
https://www.hel.fi/helsinki/en/housing/plots-land-buildings/surveying/real-estate-formation/notary-services/notary-services
"A notary serves as the certifying authority when the transfer document is signed in real estate transfer transactions. The transfer can be a contract of sale, an exchange or a gift. A pre-contract for a contract of sale also requires certification by a notary."
Anyway, people don't commonly need notaries in the US, and less than they used to, but title companies commonly have notaries, so do banks, and many legal secretaries and paralegals are notaries, so generally it's no inconvenience even if you need one. Thus, the idea it's some hardship about living in the US would be wrong.
Thanks. Still have never needed a notary service for anything in Finland, and never heard of anyone needing it for anything other than real estate transactions (which I mentioned) or to notarize documents that are needed for international purposes. I’d imagine the service network for notaries is there to serve the real estate world and international communities in both personal and business matters. Wasn’t necessarily referring to notaries being a US-exclusive thing either - my only personal experience with needing notarized paperwork comes from Switzerland where I’ve needed a whole bunch of stuff notarized for business (company) purposes.
None of this is to be confused with the trainee judge system, where lawyers get trained at the bench to complete training required to become a judge, and during the one-year training period their title is district court notary.2 -
Real estate transactions are probably the main use here, also (as I noted above). Affidavits are notarized also, although often you can use a declaration instead.1
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I've loosened up enough to not disinfect everything, but still wear masks and prefer not to go inside. Of course, that might just be my anti-social side.12
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I have gotten pretty comfortable not going anywhere, I just told hubby that going out in public is exhausting! (Grocery run today, couple stores to go to. I used to go weekly, but started stretching it to a week and a half/two depending on how long perishables hold out).I've loosened up enough to not disinfect everything, but still wear masks and prefer not to go inside. Of course, that might just be my anti-social side.
The cashier at my main grocery store (Aldi) was chit chatty and joking around today, she said she feels like things are getting back to normal a bit. She said the last year was hard, people lost their sense of humor, were rude, just all around lost the joy for that aspect of her job. I can attest that she definitely hasn’t been herself this last year (smaller town, I see her at the store often). I have ran into her when she wasn’t working and she talked for several minutes, but the last year was pretty basic pleasantries, not many smiles mixed in. I can’t even imagine how exhausting it was for them...
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We still have had zero cases of community spread Covid here in North Queensland. I'm guessing that will change once more international borders open eventually maybe next year. We and New Zealand have our bubble which seems to be working so at least there is travel there. Thinking of all that are dealing with this. Keep getting the jab and doing the right things. lokihen, do you have a pet? They are the best or my little dog is
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We still have had zero cases of community spread Covid here in North Queensland. I'm guessing that will change once more international borders open eventually maybe next year. We and New Zealand have our bubble which seems to be working so at least there is travel there. Thinking of all that are dealing with this. Keep getting the jab and doing the right things. lokihen, do you have a pet? They are the best or my little dog is
I have a master (a cat, of course) and a flock of chickens. Plus one wild turkey who moved in and made the chickens his minions so I call him Gru. It would be a sad world without critters.9 -
Low desert area in southern California here, and masks are everywhere.
The county is still in orange although infections are the lowest since last summer, and people are moving around more. I got a mani and pedi today and everybody were still wearing masks (all vaccinated at the salon), and the plexiglass partitions were still in place. I stopped in Walgreens and everybody was masked as well.
Even in the gated community where I live masks are required when entering any of the buildings, club houses, restaurant, and the gyms. Outside is optional. I know that due to the age of the people living in here, a very high % are vaccinated too. Although I also heard that some are refusing the vaccine...
It seems that the county is very cautious about lifting the masks' mandate and the governor has not put any pressure, so far, in the local authorities. Let's see how long it last.
I haven't been in my local supermarket since February 2020, still ordering online/Instacart. My husband had a hip replacement surgery two weeks ago and we have been extra careful before and after the surgery, even when we are both vaccinated. Honestly, is getting to be very tiring and limiting but we are looking forward to vacation time in September.
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Our schools have been full time in person all year. Some of the schools decided to continue masks through this school year, since only 10 days left, regardless what CDC said. So our state legislature passed a bill that the schools can’t continue the mask mandate & the governor signed it into law at midnight. Don’t understand why!7
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We still have had zero cases of community spread Covid here in North Queensland. I'm guessing that will change once more international borders open eventually maybe next year. We and New Zealand have our bubble which seems to be working so at least there is travel there. Thinking of all that are dealing with this. Keep getting the jab and doing the right things. lokihen, do you have a pet? They are the best or my little dog is
I have a master (a cat, of course) and a flock of chickens. Plus one wild turkey who moved in and made the chickens his minions so I call him Gru. It would be a sad world without critters.
I'm so jealous! I really want tons of animals but at least some chicken would be wonderful. That is so funny about the turkey! I'll be travelling Australia more and more soon so no new pets for me 3 -
I've been thinking about something that may make me sound like a jerk...
I keep hearing fully vaccinated people saying that they are continuing to take all the precautions that they took pre-vaccine, so they can "protect the unvaccinated".
In the U.S., everyone over 12 years old has the opportunity to get vaccinated. There are no supply problems, and most providers no longer require an appointment, you can just walk in.
If you are over 12 years old in the U.S., and you are not vaccinated, then that is a choice you have made. You are choosing to put yourself at risk. What lengths am I supposed to go to in order to protect you?
I fully understand that there are immunocompromised people out there, and that is why I will continue to wear my mask and keep my distance in essential businesses, like grocery stores, the post office, etc. However, I must assume that immunocompromised people would not put themselves in large, unmasked crowds, like concerts or crowded restaurants. That was true before Covid if you were receiving immunotherapy.
I also wear my mask and keep distance from kids that are too young to be vaccinated.
But for adults...It sounds callous when I type this out, but if you choose not to protect yourself, I have little appetite for doing it for you.
I guess I'm just sick of hearing the vaccine excuses.27 -
Protecting the unvaccinated when those people had the opportunity to be vaccinated -- yes I get your point.
But has everybody had the chance to be fully vaccinated ie have both doses and time to develop antibodies post vaccine ??
Maybe they have where you live but not neccesarily everywhere that posters are posting that from.
And of course we know the vaccine is not 100 % effective ( no vaccine is), so I guess people are thinking of protecting those for whom it may not be as effective on, and we don't know who that may be.
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@SuzySunshine99
Twelve years old kids cannot drive themselves to get vaccinated, neither can 13, 14, 15 and probably 16 years old either. And for what I was reading, kids under 16 need parental authorization to get the shots. Many parents don't believe in vaccination for themselves or their kids, so regardless of the supply and availability, they will not get the shots. Some kids between 12 and 16 may not be allowed to get the vaccine due to health reason.
On top of that, many adults that choose not to get the vaccine may decide that they no longer need the masks since other people already got the shots, and that kids will only get a "mild infection" if they catch the virus. So no big deal. So how are we supposed to know who got the shots and are fully vaccinated already? One thing that this pandemic brought to light is the selfishness and gullibility of many people. I lost trust in many of them.
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@SuzySunshine99
Twelve years old kids cannot drive themselves to get vaccinated, neither can 13, 14, 15 and probably 16 years old either. And for what I was reading, kids under 16 need parental authorization to get the shots. Many parents don't believe in vaccination for themselves or their kids, so regardless of the supply and availability, they will not get the shots. Some kids between 12 and 16 may not be allowed to get the vaccine due to health reason.
On top of that, many adults that choose not to get the vaccine may decide that they no longer need the masks since other people already got the shots, and that kids will only get a "mild infection" if they catch the virus. So no big deal. So how are we supposed to know who got the shots and are fully vaccinated already? One thing that this pandemic brought to light is the selfishness and gullibility of many people. I lost trust in many of them.
In the US, my impression is that the bolded varies by state. Also, now that vaccines are available at pharmacies in many US locations, driving might not be necessary to get one. If kids live in a built-up area, it seems like there's a Walgreen's-CVS-RiteAid-etc. every few blocks, not to mention that big chain supermarkets with pharmacies are offering vaccinations in some places.
But I know that's not your main point, which I take to be what's in the 2nd paragraph. I don't disagree with that, though I try not to get stressed over things I can't control/influence. 🤷♀️5 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »I've been thinking about something that may make me sound like a jerk...
I keep hearing fully vaccinated people saying that they are continuing to take all the precautions that they took pre-vaccine, so they can "protect the unvaccinated".
In the U.S., everyone over 12 years old has the opportunity to get vaccinated. There are no supply problems, and most providers no longer require an appointment, you can just walk in.
If you are over 12 years old in the U.S., and you are not vaccinated, then that is a choice you have made. You are choosing to put yourself at risk. What lengths am I supposed to go to in order to protect you?
I fully understand that there are immunocompromised people out there, and that is why I will continue to wear my mask and keep my distance in essential businesses, like grocery stores, the post office, etc. However, I must assume that immunocompromised people would not put themselves in large, unmasked crowds, like concerts or crowded restaurants. That was true before Covid if you were receiving immunotherapy.
I also wear my mask and keep distance from kids that are too young to be vaccinated.
But for adults...It sounds callous when I type this out, but if you choose not to protect yourself, I have little appetite for doing it for you.
I guess I'm just sick of hearing the vaccine excuses.
I agree. I got the vaccine, so I will go maskless. I am very unlikely to get the virus, and don't see the point of wearing a mask. If I'm not going to get it, why wear a mask "to protect the unvaccinated" when I won't have the virus anyway? If people choose not to get the vaccine, that's fine, won't affect me, and I have no sympathy for those who choose not to get it for whatever ridiculous reason. They are the ones that will get covid and end up getting really sick potentially. Even if I fall in the 5% that it doesn't work on, I still won't get it as bad.
Those that can't get vaccinated already have to be very careful, and I assume they will continue to be.13 -
The main concern I have about loosening precautions for those who are vaccinated is that people will forget ”easy” basics like social distancing. I’m pregnant and can’t get vaccinated, since pregnant women aren’t cleared here unless other high-risk factors are involved. While I won’t be attending concerts or other crowded situations, I also can’t avoid basic necessities like the grocery store and taking public transportation to medical appointments. I’d hate to see loosening mask requirements (legal or peer pressure) and things opening up leading to people forgetting social distancing and breathing on my neck while standing in line at the grocery store instead of forming the line 6 feet apart from others in the line.
I have no plans to attend crowded events and don’t expect mask mandates or mask recommendations to continue forever, but I sincerely hope polite social distancing from strangers where possible (like grocery stores and other ”daytime businesses”), hand hygiene and staying home when experiencing any flu symptoms becomes the norm.18 -
The main concern I have about loosening precautions for those who are vaccinated is that people will forget ”easy” basics like social distancing. I’m pregnant and can’t get vaccinated, since pregnant women aren’t cleared here unless other high-risk factors are involved. While I won’t be attending concerts or other crowded situations, I also can’t avoid basic necessities like the grocery store and taking public transportation to medical appointments. I’d hate to see loosening mask requirements (legal or peer pressure) and things opening up leading to people forgetting social distancing and breathing on my neck while standing in line at the grocery store instead of forming the line 6 feet apart from others in the line.
I have no plans to attend crowded events and don’t expect mask mandates or mask recommendations to continue forever, but I sincerely hope polite social distancing from strangers where possible (like grocery stores and other ”daytime businesses”), hand hygiene and staying home when experiencing any flu symptoms becomes the norm.
That "normative behavior" or "social influence" kind of thing is why I plan to keep wearing a mask in most public indoor settings, even though it's legal and safe (to me) to do otherwise. I have friends who are immunocompromised (vaxed, but told to expect less favorable response to the vaccine), too young to be vaxed here, etc. Until local transmission rates drop way down, I'd prefer to be sending the message via my personal behavior that it's normal and good to wear a mask. I have a personal investment in taking steps that could help limit the population at large creating new variants that the vaccinations aren't as effective in defeating, besides.
I know this is not true for everyone, but I have zero negative physical or psychological responses to wearing a mask: It's easy for me. I don't like the "soggy mask in workouts" thing, but the silicone mask cages help, and now that it's warm here, most of my workouts are outdoor (or solo at home) anyway.
I don't care about protecting the willfully unprotected, do care about collaborating in protecting those who are less or not yet protected, plus limiting likelihood of new and more dangerous variants, if possible.13 -
The main concern I have about loosening precautions for those who are vaccinated is that people will forget ”easy” basics like social distancing. I’m pregnant and can’t get vaccinated, since pregnant women aren’t cleared here unless other high-risk factors are involved. While I won’t be attending concerts or other crowded situations, I also can’t avoid basic necessities like the grocery store and taking public transportation to medical appointments. I’d hate to see loosening mask requirements (legal or peer pressure) and things opening up leading to people forgetting social distancing and breathing on my neck while standing in line at the grocery store instead of forming the line 6 feet apart from others in the line.
I have no plans to attend crowded events and don’t expect mask mandates or mask recommendations to continue forever, but I sincerely hope polite social distancing from strangers where possible (like grocery stores and other ”daytime businesses”), hand hygiene and staying home when experiencing any flu symptoms becomes the norm.
This why I was hoping mask mandates in general would continue until a community got over 70% or so vaccinated. There are some people who are not medically recommended to get vaxxed, there are some medical conditions that "may" make the vaccines less effective, and there are still many unvaxxed children. Vaccines protect individuals, herd immunity protects a community.
I can understand if restrictions on restaurants and bars were lifted, while keeping masks required in other indoor places. That way those at risk could continue to do the things they need to do, and just avoid eating and drinking out, while giving some relief to those industries.
It sounds like many places will at least continue requiring masks on public transport, if they are using the CDC guidelines as their basis.6 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »I've been thinking about something that may make me sound like a jerk...
I keep hearing fully vaccinated people saying that they are continuing to take all the precautions that they took pre-vaccine, so they can "protect the unvaccinated".
In the U.S., everyone over 12 years old has the opportunity to get vaccinated. There are no supply problems, and most providers no longer require an appointment, you can just walk in.
If you are over 12 years old in the U.S., and you are not vaccinated, then that is a choice you have made. You are choosing to put yourself at risk. What lengths am I supposed to go to in order to protect you?
I fully understand that there are immunocompromised people out there, and that is why I will continue to wear my mask and keep my distance in essential businesses, like grocery stores, the post office, etc. However, I must assume that immunocompromised people would not put themselves in large, unmasked crowds, like concerts or crowded restaurants. That was true before Covid if you were receiving immunotherapy.
I also wear my mask and keep distance from kids that are too young to be vaccinated.
But for adults...It sounds callous when I type this out, but if you choose not to protect yourself, I have little appetite for doing it for you.
I guess I'm just sick of hearing the vaccine excuses.
I just now got my second dose 2 days ago. And I got my first dose the day after eligibility opened up for my group. I didn't waste any time.
In line, there were many, many young people getting their very first shots. It's only been 2 days for the people in my line. They aren't protected yet.
These people weren't willfully blowing off the vax. They just didn't get it as early as you got it, for whatever reason. There were two teen girls in front of me. One said she had to wait a week so she could get a ride from the other girl. People can't always just up and do things.
I get that you might be annoyed if people are still fooling around, delaying vaxes into the summer, but it's still early for the very latest groups.
Just because you're fully vaxxed at this point, doesn't mean the people who come after you are slackers who deserve less consideration. We're not all operating on the same timeline of vaccine availability.
It would have been nice if CDC had waited to drop the mask recommendations until after the minimum vax period for at least the first dose of the final group was completed. I mean, what's one more month of masking for our fellow human beings?
I do agree that we shouldn't waste too much effort on people who willingly choose to endanger themselves at this point. I have zero sympathy for antivaxxers who end up sick.11 -
While I can feel my personal comfort with going unmasked increasing as I pass (today!) the two-week mark from my second vaccination and national and local community case rates continue to fall (yeah!), for now I plan to continue wearing a mask in retail establishments (grocery stores, pharmacies, etc.), restaurants, libraries, and the like, even though they are no longer required locally for the fully vaccinated.
First, because there's about a 1 in 20 chance that any given "fully vaccinated" person -- including me -- is not actually protected (that's what effective rates in the neighborhood of 95% mean). Wearing masks, and hopefully being an example that makes others feel less pressured to discard their masks, means less chance for two of those people in the 5% who mistakenly think they are "safe" to pass the virus between them. So until case rates drop low enough that there's not much reason to be concerned that the 1 in 400 chance for any given interaction between two vaccinated people to actually be an interaction between two people without immunity, I'm planning to keep wearing a mask. It does sound like we could get there sometime this summer. (I also have a lot of concern about each new case being another incubator for potential variants, so I really would like to see low case rates before unmasking.)
Second, because folks who work in retail and restaurants are, in my community anyway, among those most likely to want the vaccine and not have been able to get it, and who don't have any personal choice (short of quitting their jobs) in whether they have to deal with people who won't wear a mask, and no way to be sure those people are actually vaccinated. (Anybody who thinks that a policy of "you don't have to wear a mask if you're vaccinated" isn't going to see a lot of people who choose not to be vaccinated going maskless is naive, at least in the U.S.)
If I can give another human being who has probably had a much harder pandemic year than I did even a two-minute respite from worrying about whether a customer's lack of a mask means they're vaccinated or they're just someone taking advantage of the new "no masks for the vaccinated but nobody is going to make you prove you're vaccinated" policy, doing so at the minute cost of putting on a mask seems the right thing to do.17 -
@SuzySunshine99
Twelve years old kids cannot drive themselves to get vaccinated, neither can 13, 14, 15 and probably 16 years old either. And for what I was reading, kids under 16 need parental authorization to get the shots. Many parents don't believe in vaccination for themselves or their kids, so regardless of the supply and availability, they will not get the shots. Some kids between 12 and 16 may not be allowed to get the vaccine due to health reason.
On top of that, many adults that choose not to get the vaccine may decide that they no longer need the masks since other people already got the shots, and that kids will only get a "mild infection" if they catch the virus. So no big deal. So how are we supposed to know who got the shots and are fully vaccinated already? One thing that this pandemic brought to light is the selfishness and gullibility of many people. I lost trust in many of them.
In the US, my impression is that the bolded varies by state. Also, now that vaccines are available at pharmacies in many US locations, driving might not be necessary to get one. If kids live in a built-up area, it seems like there's a Walgreen's-CVS-RiteAid-etc. every few blocks, not to mention that big chain supermarkets with pharmacies are offering vaccinations in some places.
But I know that's not your main point, which I take to be what's in the 2nd paragraph. I don't disagree with that, though I try not to get stressed over things I can't control/influence. 🤷♀️
My youngest grandchildren are 11 and 13 and they live in a state where parental consent is needed to get the COVID vaccine. Even if they could get it without their parents’ approval, I know that they wouldn't do that and my son and his wife would not be happy about it if they did. Besides, the closest Walgreens is about 7 miles round trip from their house (no Rite-Aid or CVS in their state, at least not in their county). They don't drive, obviously, and there is not public transportation either. Not everybody lives in or near by a built-up area.
I agree with kimmy that it would have been better to wait another month to lift masks mandate in the states to give more people the chance to get the vaccines.
Florida is one of several states — including Texas, Mississippi, Kentucky, Georgia, Pennsylvania and Colorado — that require parental or legal guardian consent for vaccination in minors of all ages. Some states allow all minors to get any vaccine as they please without parental consent, such as Idaho, Washington and North Carolina.
Other states have more specific rules. For example, minors in South Carolina don’t need their parent’s permission to receive any vaccine as long as they are 16 or older. In Illinois and California, kids aged 12 and older don’t need consent to get the HPV or Hepatitis B vaccines, but do need it for all other shots.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article251385583.html5 -
The main concern I have about loosening precautions for those who are vaccinated is that people will forget ”easy” basics like social distancing. I’m pregnant and can’t get vaccinated, since pregnant women aren’t cleared here unless other high-risk factors are involved. While I won’t be attending concerts or other crowded situations, I also can’t avoid basic necessities like the grocery store and taking public transportation to medical appointments. I’d hate to see loosening mask requirements (legal or peer pressure) and things opening up leading to people forgetting social distancing and breathing on my neck while standing in line at the grocery store instead of forming the line 6 feet apart from others in the line.
I have no plans to attend crowded events and don’t expect mask mandates or mask recommendations to continue forever, but I sincerely hope polite social distancing from strangers where possible (like grocery stores and other ”daytime businesses”), hand hygiene and staying home when experiencing any flu symptoms becomes the norm.
Remember if you stand in front of your shopping cart (trolley) then you are in control of how close others can get to you.5 -
https://apnews.com/article/health-coronavirus-pandemic-government-and-politics-4f7d4efc08d6e826674be3bb583972b8
Top down mask practices in USA0 -
The main concern I have about loosening precautions for those who are vaccinated is that people will forget ”easy” basics like social distancing. I’m pregnant and can’t get vaccinated, since pregnant women aren’t cleared here unless other high-risk factors are involved. While I won’t be attending concerts or other crowded situations, I also can’t avoid basic necessities like the grocery store and taking public transportation to medical appointments. I’d hate to see loosening mask requirements (legal or peer pressure) and things opening up leading to people forgetting social distancing and breathing on my neck while standing in line at the grocery store instead of forming the line 6 feet apart from others in the line.
I have no plans to attend crowded events and don’t expect mask mandates or mask recommendations to continue forever, but I sincerely hope polite social distancing from strangers where possible (like grocery stores and other ”daytime businesses”), hand hygiene and staying home when experiencing any flu symptoms becomes the norm.
Remember if you stand in front of your shopping cart (trolley) then you are in control of how close others can get to you.
I never use a cart - I don’t have a car and can’t carry a cart’s worth of stuff back home even though it’s only a few minutes walk. If the neck breathers start reappearing, maybe I’ll have to start using a cart for the 1-2 days worth of groceries I buy at a time. The upside to having to visit the store every couple of days is that the store is open 24/7 and the walk there is measured in yards better than in miles (about 200 meters), so I can easily avoid rush hour.
Whenever I go there with my husband, I make him stand behind me while in line. He can breathe on my neck any time and block others from getting too close.
About vaccines and parental consent: here in Finland there’s a tricky balance between a child’s right to privacy and parental consent. The basic idea is that once a child is mature enough to decide about their own treatment, parental consent is no longer needed and they aren’t even allowed to see the child’s records without the child’s consent because medical records are private. I’m not sure if there’s a default age limit for that, but I think it’s generally somewhere around 12-14. I frequently hear my colleagues get frustrated when they can no longer access their children’s medical information after some birthday has passed, even if the child wants the parent to take care of their appointments and prescriptions, because they haven’t filled some consent form.
My personal experience, from what I remember, is that I started going to the orthodontist alone when I was probably 9 or 10 (including walking to the doctor’s office alone from school in the middle of the day, my parents just wrote my teacher a note that I need to leave at a certain time) and they did whatever they felt was the right next phase of treatment. My mom came in maybe twice in the 6 years after my post-dental surgery braces were put in, and only if there were some major new brace things that required supervised home maintenance. I got a booster tetanus shot from my elementary school nurse in 5th or 6th grade and while it’s possible my parents had sent in a consent form, they weren’t present and I wasn’t aware of getting the shot until the day it happened. I did a high school exchange year in the US when I was 16, and got all vaccinations, lab work etc done independently through my high school nurse, I’m pretty sure my mom never signed any medical consent forms. When I returned at 17, the same nurse prescribed my first birth control pills and I know for a fact my parents weren’t consulted at any point of that, although the nurse did recommend telling my parents if I felt comfortable doing so.
This was a stark contrast to my US exchange - I had taken care of my own medication and medical appointments independently for years at that point, but in the US I had to take the basic OTC painkillers I used for headaches and period pains to be stored with the school nurse, and my exchange mom had to sign a special permission slip that I can go and get them independently without the nurse needing to call my exchange mom for permission every time. In Finland, our high school teachers sometimes asked students if anyone was carrying those same painkillers if they got a headache, and usually multiple students offered. In the US I wasn’t allowed to leave school in the middle of the day without family picking me up or calling at time of departure to confirm - as said, in Finland a written note from parent was enough at 9 years old. Places and cultures can be very different.9 -
@hipari I know this is off topic, but had to say I hope you enjoyed your year in the US. We had an exchange student from Sweden live with us for a school year. It was a great experience .4
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SuzySunshine99 wrote: »I've been thinking about something that may make me sound like a jerk...
I keep hearing fully vaccinated people saying that they are continuing to take all the precautions that they took pre-vaccine, so they can "protect the unvaccinated".
In the U.S., everyone over 12 years old has the opportunity to get vaccinated. There are no supply problems, and most providers no longer require an appointment, you can just walk in.
If you are over 12 years old in the U.S., and you are not vaccinated, then that is a choice you have made. You are choosing to put yourself at risk. What lengths am I supposed to go to in order to protect you?
I fully understand that there are immunocompromised people out there, and that is why I will continue to wear my mask and keep my distance in essential businesses, like grocery stores, the post office, etc. However, I must assume that immunocompromised people would not put themselves in large, unmasked crowds, like concerts or crowded restaurants. That was true before Covid if you were receiving immunotherapy.
I also wear my mask and keep distance from kids that are too young to be vaccinated.
But for adults...It sounds callous when I type this out, but if you choose not to protect yourself, I have little appetite for doing it for you.
I guess I'm just sick of hearing the vaccine excuses.
I'm vaccinated, and I never considered being in the "take-precautions-to-protect-the-unvaccinated-people" group.
I'm in the in the "take-precautions-because-vaccines-are-not-100%-and-who-knows-how-many-people-near-me-who-claim-to-be-vaccinated-truly-are" group.11 -
Count me in the camp with those thinking about 2 broad groups of situations:
- essential places like grocery stores, pharmacies, health care offices, public transportation. Vulnerable people may have to go those places. Mask wearing in those places will protect vulnerable people -- not so much from vaccinated people but from other unvaccinated people who are more likely to be potential covid spreaders. But who knows who is vaccinated? So it's logical for everyone to wear masks, and I'm willing to do that more as a courtesy than as a preventative measure. It's a hypothetical thought experiment, though, because my state forbids local mask ordinances and few people wear them. It's unfortunate for the vulnerable.
- entertainment venues like restaurants, bars, arts/sports events. Vulnerable people can avoid these places. If they go, they are making the decision and taking the risk for themselves. I do not feel obligated to protect them. Since being fully vaccinated, I've been to restaurants a couple times and one crowded party, and I was comfortable without a mask in those situations.
I am concerned about workers, though. Unemployment in many areas of the US is still high, and vulnerable people may have a hard time finding safe jobs. A vulnerable restaurant worker with little experience in anything else may have a hard time balancing health & financial needs.10 -
Where I am, public transit and most private business (like grocery stores and my favorite gardening store) require masks inside. I follow the rules, so I wear them there. I assume one has to take off the mask in restaurants (here you are supposed to have them on when interacting with servers), but I haven't been to one yet. Not movies either, but plan to go to one soon. Tried to get really limited CSO tickets, but didn't act fast enough, and so far no plays open, but again will follow the rules.
I don't think unemployment is a real issue in that many jobs that need people can't find people.3
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