Coronavirus prep
Replies
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Me too, Mike, me too. My first thought after Trump's positive diagnosis was well, at least now everybody will be smarter about masking up. But that's not happening; it's still a choice at the WH whether one wants to wear a mask or not.
Are You Kidding Me???? Have we not listened and learned anything?? What will it take?
Today, heard one of his supporters interviewed on NPR, who was asked point-blank whether she though Trump ought to have worn a mask. She said "no" because it was everyone's individual choice. (This is not an word for word quote, but i promise that it's an accurate representation of what she said.)
Please note, in the interest of the "no politics" rules here, that I'm not offering any opinon in this post about the woman interviewed, her opinions, or anything else. I'm just reporting an interview I heard, as neutrally as possible.
Comments such as from his supporter irritate me to no end.
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Apparently Hope Hicks said she was one of the more consistent mask wearers in the WH and was upset that others did not wear them and sneered at those who did. She also was apparently upset that initially it seemed that people were throwing her under the bus as the person who infected Trump when it now seems they were likely infected at the same time. WH has said they aren't changing from the less accurate 15 min tests to the apparently more accurate 45 min tests or a mask mandate.This morning there was a discussion about Trump's pre-existing conditions, they mentioned his age and weight, but then said that his "most dangerous" condition is being male. I was very surprised by that.
It was entirely avoidable that masks got portrayed as a political statement.
It is true that men on average seem to do more poorly than women, although maybe women get tested more to explain the stats.
Unless I'm mistaken, they haven't been able to exactly pin down where the point of exposure was. Masks may not be the 'be all to end all' BUT it has been shown to decrease people's odds of getting Covid so I hope people don't start saying "See? It didn't do any good to wear a mask after all". It's sad and frightening when anyone gets this virus but I find it specially disheartening when someone does 'everything right' and still has to fight the battle. Of course there will be those tiny leaks someplace. Nothing is 100%.
We all need to continue doing THE best we can.
And JMO it should've stopped being a choice several months ago. I'm sure the disagrees will mount up for me now. But really, it's a simple action to take. There are many other freedoms I'd fight for, but this isn't one of them. I also use my seat belt religiously. Anybody remember when that was a thing?? 19 -
@ReenieHJ
full disclosure, though I think of myself as close to centrist, I likely lean more right than left. That being said, I wear my mask in any public space, if not for myself then out of respect for others
Seatbelts, yes, I used to be terrible about them. The turning point was when my kids were getting their drivers licenses, and then I became religious about them just as I expected them to. Now I feel naked without them and am often searching for a seatbelt in places like a movie theater as well (not recently of course). The funny extreme about cars is I remember being loaded loose into the back end of a station wagon to fit more kids in a car. The current extreme, that I have a harder time with, is the weight required for booster seats. My kids were petite. My son would have been in a booster seat in Middle school. He got harassed enough without that.4 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »@MikePfirrman Very interesting, so apparently that drug has multiple uses or is being used off label. Very interesting to see the doctor's selections and the "why's". I am hoping that your logical assumption, that they are treating aggressively due to rapid COVID progression, is wrong. I'm hoping they are just trying to get ahead of what "could happen". Time will tell.
Or he was already taking all those other drugs for typical reasons before the COVID diagnosis. The announcement said he "has been" taking them, which in ordinary usage is somewhat vague but more compatible with his taking them for longer than two days since diagnosis, as is the reference to a "daily" aspirin.In addition to the polyclonal antibodies, the President has been taking zinc, vitamin D, famotidine, melatonin, and a daily aspirin.
Lynn, I had interpreted the meds the same as you, and without spotting the past tense word like you, I had assumed that the famotidine, melatonin and aspirin were part his pre-Covid daily supplements as they looked like ones an older overweight person might need. While Mike, on the other hand has Covid related explanations for each which were rather interesting. Not sure that in the short run, we will be told their purposes.
I have no special experience and I'm not a scientist. But I did sleep at a Holiday Inn.
Seriously, Lynn may certainly be right. I have read that both Melatonin and the H2 blocker (some believe) have therapeutic effects. I'm guessing that they were given by his in house docs. But I do believe Lynn that he's directing his own healthcare advice. Certainly a possibility with him. A man that believes he knows better than Fauci on this disease, who has long been considered the most authoritative person on infectious diseases in the US, would certainly think he's smarter than the docs at Walter Reed.9 -
I think most of us have our favorite supplements but polymorphism in the human genome vary from person to person so while a specific supplement may be helpful for some people yet do nothing for another. I think most any food/supplement shown to increase life health span can be positive when dealing with Covid-19 since we are coming to understand there often are known or unknown health risks that lead to getting/dying from Covid-19. Sadly not everyone takes a deadly disease like Covid-19 seriously. UK almost lost their head of state very early in this pandemic. Locally the number of Covid-19 positive tests are over the top of past numbers but unlike back in March news reports only cover the number of positive test results.2
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MikePfirrman wrote: »A man that believes he knows better than Fauci on this disease, who has long been considered the most authoritative person on infectious diseases in the US, would certainly think he's smarter than the docs at Walter Reed.
Valid point on Trumps personality. The issue I have had with Fauci (and many others) at one point he stated that masks will do nothing (I listened to rebroadcast of those comments just in the past few days) and now masks are everything. Yes, I know we are all learning about this disease and therefore changing of position makes sense. But, at the same time that we grant that right to change position to someone like Fauci, due to political machines, that same right of changing one's position over time is treated very differently when it comes to the president. In general, I hate politics and I hate how it impacts the facts we are told. (Hopefully that was not deemed a political statement. I don't what to do that.)
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The fact, that most everyone, or even anyone, changed their mind about covid, as a virus, how it spreads, treatment, etc, from what it was in the beginning, shows how little was known. Most reasonable people will agree, social distancing, face coverings and hand washing, helps reduce the spread. Recent events show this to be true. How much more proof does anyone need, until there is safe effective treatment and a safe vaccine?14
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missysippy930 wrote: »The fact, that most everyone, or even anyone, changed their mind about covid, as a virus, how it spreads, treatment, etc, from what it was in the beginning, shows how little was known. Most reasonable people will agree, social distancing, face coverings and hand washing, helps reduce the spread. Recent events show this to be true. How much more proof does anyone need, until there is safe effective treatment and a safe vaccine?
I totally agree. I just want that applied equally to all of us.
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@ReenieHJ
full disclosure, though I think of myself as close to centrist, I likely lean more right than left. That being said, I wear my mask in any public space, if not for myself then out of respect for others
Seatbelts, yes, I used to be terrible about them. The turning point was when my kids were getting their drivers licenses, and then I became religious about them just as I expected them to. Now I feel naked without them and am often searching for a seatbelt in places like a movie theater as well (not recently of course). The funny extreme about cars is I remember being loaded loose into the back end of a station wagon to fit more kids in a car. The current extreme, that I have a harder time with, is the weight required for booster seats. My kids were petite. My son would have been in a booster seat in Middle school. He got harassed enough without that.
Speaking generically, there's a difference between changing one's mind based on new evidence (even old evidence to which the individual in question is newly exposed), and changing one's mind because of whim, popularity (in the face of counter-evidence), pecuniary advantage, peer pressure, or that sort of thing.
Some people learn, and change their opinions. Personally, I respect that . . . even among politicians. Some people don't utilize learning in this way, but change opinions out of - essentially - lack of character. It's not always obvious which is in play in a given case, of course.14 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »@MikePfirrman Very interesting, so apparently that drug has multiple uses or is being used off label. Very interesting to see the doctor's selections and the "why's". I am hoping that your logical assumption, that they are treating aggressively due to rapid COVID progression, is wrong. I'm hoping they are just trying to get ahead of what "could happen". Time will tell.
Or he was already taking all those other drugs for typical reasons before the COVID diagnosis. The announcement said he "has been" taking them, which in ordinary usage is somewhat vague but more compatible with his taking them for longer than two days since diagnosis, as is the reference to a "daily" aspirin.In addition to the polyclonal antibodies, the President has been taking zinc, vitamin D, famotidine, melatonin, and a daily aspirin.
Lynn, I had interpreted the meds the same as you, and without spotting the past tense word like you, I had assumed that the famotidine, melatonin and aspirin were part his pre-Covid daily supplements as they looked like ones an older overweight person might need. While Mike, on the other hand has Covid related explanations for each which were rather interesting. Not sure that in the short run, we will be told their purposes.
I have no special experience and I'm not a scientist. But I did sleep at a Holiday Inn.
Seriously, Lynn may certainly be right. I have read that both Melatonin and the H2 blocker (some believe) have therapeutic effects. I'm guessing that they were given by his in house docs. But I do believe Lynn that he's directing his own healthcare advice. Certainly a possibility with him. A man that believes he knows better than Fauci on this disease, who has long been considered the most authoritative person on infectious diseases in the US, would certainly think he's smarter than the docs at Walter Reed.
I think there's a good chance you're both right. It could be that first list of medications/supplements was a list he was taking both for other health indications AND as covid preventative. And they had hoped it would keep him asymptomatic once he tested positive. Unfortunately we are getting info from multiple sources with varying levels of expertise, so who the heck knows? I'm not going to comment on his condition any further to avoid veering into off-limits territory.2 -
@ReenieHJ
full disclosure, though I think of myself as close to centrist, I likely lean more right than left. That being said, I wear my mask in any public space, if not for myself then out of respect for others
Seatbelts, yes, I used to be terrible about them. The turning point was when my kids were getting their drivers licenses, and then I became religious about them just as I expected them to. Now I feel naked without them and am often searching for a seatbelt in places like a movie theater as well (not recently of course). The funny extreme about cars is I remember being loaded loose into the back end of a station wagon to fit more kids in a car. The current extreme, that I have a harder time with, is the weight required for booster seats. My kids were petite. My son would have been in a booster seat in Middle school. He got harassed enough without that.
Speaking generically, there's a difference between changing one's mind based on new evidence (even old evidence to which the individual in question is newly exposed), and changing one's mind because of whim, popularity (in the face of counter-evidence), pecuniary advantage, peer pressure, or that sort of thing.
Some people learn, and change their opinions. Personally, I respect that . . . even among politicians. Some people don't utilize learning in this way, but change opinions out of - essentially - lack of character. It's not always obvious which is in play in a given case, of course.
well stated1 -
@ReenieHJ
full disclosure, though I think of myself as close to centrist, I likely lean more right than left. That being said, I wear my mask in any public space, if not for myself then out of respect for others
Seatbelts, yes, I used to be terrible about them. The turning point was when my kids were getting their drivers licenses, and then I became religious about them just as I expected them to. Now I feel naked without them and am often searching for a seatbelt in places like a movie theater as well (not recently of course). The funny extreme about cars is I remember being loaded loose into the back end of a station wagon to fit more kids in a car. The current extreme, that I have a harder time with, is the weight required for booster seats. My kids were petite. My son would have been in a booster seat in Middle school. He got harassed enough without that.
Speaking generically, there's a difference between changing one's mind based on new evidence (even old evidence to which the individual in question is newly exposed), and changing one's mind because of whim, popularity (in the face of counter-evidence), pecuniary advantage, peer pressure, or that sort of thing.
Some people learn, and change their opinions. Personally, I respect that . . . even among politicians. Some people don't utilize learning in this way, but change opinions out of - essentially - lack of character. It's not always obvious which is in play in a given case, of course.
Yeah I feel like it's been very clear the whole time that the initial directive against masks was based on fear it woul divert PPE from HC workers, and the possibility covid was highly aerosolized and masking would give a false sense of security.
Once it was clearer that covid mostly traveled in larger droplets, and the cloth mask "industry" was flourishing, they reversed course and apologized for the confusion. Anyone whose still harping on early advice is just being stubborn. This is how science works when faced with something unknown. You start out with educated guesses and keep correcting yourself as more and more data becomes available. They couldn't be expected to get everything right on day 1, the fact that they are willing to correct themselves should instill more confidence, not less 20 -
@ReenieHJ
full disclosure, though I think of myself as close to centrist, I likely lean more right than left. That being said, I wear my mask in any public space, if not for myself then out of respect for others
Seatbelts, yes, I used to be terrible about them. The turning point was when my kids were getting their drivers licenses, and then I became religious about them just as I expected them to. Now I feel naked without them and am often searching for a seatbelt in places like a movie theater as well (not recently of course). The funny extreme about cars is I remember being loaded loose into the back end of a station wagon to fit more kids in a car. The current extreme, that I have a harder time with, is the weight required for booster seats. My kids were petite. My son would have been in a booster seat in Middle school. He got harassed enough without that.
Speaking generically, there's a difference between changing one's mind based on new evidence (even old evidence to which the individual in question is newly exposed), and changing one's mind because of whim, popularity (in the face of counter-evidence), pecuniary advantage, peer pressure, or that sort of thing.
Some people learn, and change their opinions. Personally, I respect that . . . even among politicians. Some people don't utilize learning in this way, but change opinions out of - essentially - lack of character. It's not always obvious which is in play in a given case, of course.
Yeah I feel like it's been very clear the whole time that the initial directive against masks was based on fear it woul divert PPE from HC workers, and the possibility covid was highly aerosolized and masking would give a false sense of security.
Once it was clearer that covid mostly traveled in larger droplets, and the cloth mask "industry" was flourishing, they reversed course and apologized for the confusion. Anyone whose still harping on early advice is just being stubborn. This is how science works when faced with something unknown. You start out with educated guesses and keep correcting yourself as more and more data becomes available. They couldn't be expected to get everything right on day 1, the fact that they are willing to correct themselves should instill more confidence, not less
Here in Italy, in the beginning, our politicians and experts said the same--masks don't work, nada, nada..... However medical personnel were wearing them, film clips on the news showed the Chinese wearing them, Chinese doctors that came to Italy for advice on COVID said that people weren't wearing masks,....
This happened because there were not enough masks available for the public to buy. To reduce panic everyone was told that they didn't really work. Once we had a supply built up--they were mandatory. Magic.
News now--cases are going up again since everyone returned from their vacations this summer, and schools opened 3 weeks ago. We were down to almost nothing this summer. Sigh. Masks are now mandatory outside with a $400 fine if you're caught without.10 -
Listening to, and taking, advice from, people who are educated, experienced experts in their fields, is a sign of good leadership, IMHO only.13
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@ReenieHJ
full disclosure, though I think of myself as close to centrist, I likely lean more right than left. That being said, I wear my mask in any public space, if not for myself then out of respect for others
Seatbelts, yes, I used to be terrible about them. The turning point was when my kids were getting their drivers licenses, and then I became religious about them just as I expected them to. Now I feel naked without them and am often searching for a seatbelt in places like a movie theater as well (not recently of course). The funny extreme about cars is I remember being loaded loose into the back end of a station wagon to fit more kids in a car. The current extreme, that I have a harder time with, is the weight required for booster seats. My kids were petite. My son would have been in a booster seat in Middle school. He got harassed enough without that.
Speaking generically, there's a difference between changing one's mind based on new evidence (even old evidence to which the individual in question is newly exposed), and changing one's mind because of whim, popularity (in the face of counter-evidence), pecuniary advantage, peer pressure, or that sort of thing.
Some people learn, and change their opinions. Personally, I respect that . . . even among politicians. Some people don't utilize learning in this way, but change opinions out of - essentially - lack of character. It's not always obvious which is in play in a given case, of course.
Yeah I feel like it's been very clear the whole time that the initial directive against masks was based on fear it woul divert PPE from HC workers, and the possibility covid was highly aerosolized and masking would give a false sense of security.
Once it was clearer that covid mostly traveled in larger droplets, and the cloth mask "industry" was flourishing, they reversed course and apologized for the confusion. Anyone whose still harping on early advice is just being stubborn. This is how science works when faced with something unknown. You start out with educated guesses and keep correcting yourself as more and more data becomes available. They couldn't be expected to get everything right on day 1, the fact that they are willing to correct themselves should instill more confidence, not less
Indeed.
The desire to believe a thing is really powerful, even in the face of evidence. It can be dangerous, can interfere with learning.
A thing I like - and there aren't many - about stupid political memes on social media is that when I find myself reacting with high emotion, it's like a giant flashing arrow pointing at one of my biases. 🤣4 -
Ok, different topic and I am curious. Does anyone have the science behind the why africa has such low COVID numbers?
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Ok, different topic and I am curious. Does anyone have the science behind the why africa has such low COVID numbers?
According to this article, it leans towards populations already having SARS-CoV-2 and other related antibodies: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/08/pandemic-appears-have-spared-africa-so-far-scientists-are-struggling-explain-why2 -
4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »Dear Posters,
I just wanted to post a quick reminder that political discussion is typically not allowed on the forums due to the tendency for things to get a bit (over)heated. It's hard to discuss COVID without touching on politics, and you all are doing a great job continuing the dialogue in a respectful manner. Please continue to keep your posts thoughtful and relevant if they boarder on political.
Thanks so much for the constructive discussion!
4legs
MFP volunteer moderator
Just another quick reminder, thanks for keeping it respectful all!7 -
Ok, different topic and I am curious. Does anyone have the science behind the why africa has such low COVID numbers?
According to this article, it leans towards populations already having SARS-CoV-2 and other related antibodies: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/08/pandemic-appears-have-spared-africa-so-far-scientists-are-struggling-explain-why
@oocdc2 Thank you for sharing the article but confused by your statement. If I replace "it" and SARS-CoV-2" with their replacement noun "COVID", you would have written "COVID leans towards populations already having COVID". I am guessing I am missing what you were saying.
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Ok, different topic and I am curious. Does anyone have the science behind the why africa has such low COVID numbers?
According to this article, it leans towards populations already having SARS-CoV-2 and other related antibodies: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/08/pandemic-appears-have-spared-africa-so-far-scientists-are-struggling-explain-why
@oocdc2 Thank you for sharing the article but confused by your statement. If I replace "it" and SARS-CoV-2" with their replacement noun "COVID", you would have written "COVID leans towards populations already having COVID". I am guessing I am missing what you were saying.
SARS-CoV-2 is the name of the virus that causes COVID-19 (The disease)
COVID-19 vs. SARS: How Do They Differ? - Healthline
https://www.healthline.com/health/coronavirus-vs-sars
Apr 29, 2020 · Both COVID-19 and SARS are caused by coronaviruses. The virus that causes SARS is known as SARS-CoV, while the virus that causes COVID-19 is known as SARS-CoV-2. There are also other types of human...6
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