Coronavirus prep
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cwolfman13 wrote: »Re: "Yeah, in my experience, that "use any excuse" thing is far from universal."
Of course it's not universal. I haven't taken all (or even most of, or in some years more than a couple of days of) my vacation in forever and I never take sick days. But claiming no one games the system seems unrealistic. That said, I think many people planned time off in case of bad reactions (I know several people who planned time off in advance in case) and that doesn't say whether they had them or not (I do think plenty of people did have minor-ish bad reactions, including me, and I worked but didn't work out and I enjoy working out). But if I hadn't ended up having things I absolutely had to do on that Friday after, I would have taken it off.
It's definitely not universal, but it most definitely happens. My organization consists of 135 people which is the smallest I've ever worked for. We strongly encouraged employees to take their sick time if they had it available on the days they received their shots just in case, and the vast majority did.
We didn't have anywhere close to 1/3 or our organization call in after their shot saying that they weren't feeling well....that would have been about 44/45 people. As I recall, we've had about 10-12 that have said they didn't feel well enough to come to work...mostly headache and/or fatigue. I know of at least three that I would say it is about a 90% probability of being utter BS due to past history, but not enough there to actually do anything more than have them on a "watch close" list.
I have to say though...I don't really understand the "martyrdom" of not using paid time off which is part of one's benefit package, especially if it's use it or lose it. I use mine...I try to keep a bank of 3 weeks vacation and 2 weeks of sick just incase something happens, but otherwise I have no qualms using a benefit that is part of my compensation package. We have a few people that rarely take any time off and it's easy to see that it wears them down...they would be better and more productive if they took some time off for themselves. I am impressed by people getting their stuff done, not necessarily by having a butt in a seat every single day.
I think my work is a bit unsual. We only have 7 people in our office, are flexible to work in or out of the office, and we track our own hours. No one would even know and/or care if I took the afternoon off. As long as we get our work done no one is keeping track of how or when we do that.
Because of Covid and lockdowns (that limited the number of people in the office) I went in every Sunday from Jan-May and am taking every Monday and Friday off Jul-Sep for lieu time and vacation. I'm guessing not everyone has that kind of flexibility.5 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.
Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.
Yeah, nobody would ever think to use that as an excuse to take some time off work? I took a half day off as well mostly as a "just in case" and I was totally fine...and it was a Friday sooooo...
How many of these people skipped some other fun activity? I bet it wasn't 1/3. I also wouldn't call a headache and fatigue for a day a particularly adverse reaction...which seems to be the most common complaint from people who've had some kind of issue after the vaccine.
To be honest, I find it quite disrespectful of you and some others in this thread to imply that either I’m naively stupid or my coworkers are lazy liars who take advantage of the situation just to skip work. I have access to everyone’s hour logs, including comments, which clearly state the symptoms they had, and I know these people personally. You don’t. Many have also complained about ruined weekend or evening plans because of vaccine reactions. Don’t know why I’m mentioning this though, since you’ll probably assume they’re just saying that to cover their lies.
Everything is, of course, possible, and workplaces and cultures are different. You just admitted to taking half a day off and starting your weekend early just because you had the convenient excuse of getting vaccinated. At a different job, I might do the same thing. My colleagues just tend to be motivated and committed enough to not do that, and I frequently see evening/weekend hours logged by someone catching up after an absence, even though nobody is expecting or requesting that. Workplaces here are legally required to give pregnant employees paid time off to attend maternity healthcare appointments. I could book them in the middle of the day and take 2-3 hours per appointment to get there, have the appointment and get back. Instead, I voluntarily book them either first thing in the morning or last thing in the afternoon to be efficient, and usually end up covering those hours some other day on the week of the appointment, because I care more about my job and getting everything done than maximising potential paid time off. Most of my colleagues share this mindset, even though nobody is expecting it or pressuring us in any way.
On a different note, the neighboring city (where most of my friends live) opened vaccinations for my age group today - some of my friends booked their appointments at midnight and already received their first shot today. In my city the age group should open next week.
How high is that horse you're on? Don't fall now...
If you think that being motivated by one’s job or defending coworkers when others suggest they’re lazy liars puts one on a high horse, then sure. My horse is high by your standards. If that’s really the case, I’m just going to bow out of this conversation so you can continue living in your world of unmotivated liars and making snide comments to strangers, I’d rather not be a part of that one. I came here to discuss covid and participate in the previous subject of how many people experience reactions to the vaccine, not to be called a unicorn or a high-horse-rider for being motivated by my job or defending and liking my coworkers, who incidentally are also motivated by their jobs. I have appreciated the various viewpoints and perspectives in this discussion, but these kinds of remarks make me want to stay in unicorn land. At least people are respectful there.
Congratulations on making me cry, though. You must feel so much better about yourself.11 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.
Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.
Yeah, nobody would ever think to use that as an excuse to take some time off work? I took a half day off as well mostly as a "just in case" and I was totally fine...and it was a Friday sooooo...
How many of these people skipped some other fun activity? I bet it wasn't 1/3. I also wouldn't call a headache and fatigue for a day a particularly adverse reaction...which seems to be the most common complaint from people who've had some kind of issue after the vaccine.
To be honest, I find it quite disrespectful of you and some others in this thread to imply that either I’m naively stupid or my coworkers are lazy liars who take advantage of the situation just to skip work. I have access to everyone’s hour logs, including comments, which clearly state the symptoms they had, and I know these people personally. You don’t. Many have also complained about ruined weekend or evening plans because of vaccine reactions. Don’t know why I’m mentioning this though, since you’ll probably assume they’re just saying that to cover their lies.
Everything is, of course, possible, and workplaces and cultures are different. You just admitted to taking half a day off and starting your weekend early just because you had the convenient excuse of getting vaccinated. At a different job, I might do the same thing. My colleagues just tend to be motivated and committed enough to not do that, and I frequently see evening/weekend hours logged by someone catching up after an absence, even though nobody is expecting or requesting that. Workplaces here are legally required to give pregnant employees paid time off to attend maternity healthcare appointments. I could book them in the middle of the day and take 2-3 hours per appointment to get there, have the appointment and get back. Instead, I voluntarily book them either first thing in the morning or last thing in the afternoon to be efficient, and usually end up covering those hours some other day on the week of the appointment, because I care more about my job and getting everything done than maximising potential paid time off. Most of my colleagues share this mindset, even though nobody is expecting it or pressuring us in any way.
On a different note, the neighboring city (where most of my friends live) opened vaccinations for my age group today - some of my friends booked their appointments at midnight and already received their first shot today. In my city the age group should open next week.
How high is that horse you're on? Don't fall now...
If you think that being motivated by one’s job or defending coworkers when others suggest they’re lazy liars puts one on a high horse, then sure. My horse is high by your standards. If that’s really the case, I’m just going to bow out of this conversation so you can continue living in your world of unmotivated liars and making snide comments to strangers, I’d rather not be a part of that one. I came here to discuss covid and participate in the previous subject of how many people experience reactions to the vaccine, not to be called a unicorn or a high-horse-rider for being motivated by my job or defending and liking my coworkers, who incidentally are also motivated by their jobs. I have appreciated the various viewpoints and perspectives in this discussion, but these kinds of remarks make me want to stay in unicorn land. At least people are respectful there.
Congratulations on making me cry, though. You must feel so much better about yourself.
I'm very motivated by my job...I didn't get to being the CFO out of any lack of motivation or hard work. Talking about how you never take time off because you're just that hard of a worker is being on a high horse...as if people who use something that is a part of their benefits package aren't hard workers. That is literally the definition of "high horse". I proposed a scenario in which people could and do abuse the system...it's not some kind of remote possibility, it happens all the time...then you went off on how lazy I am or my employees are when I was simply putting out a very real world scenario.
I wasn't implying that everyone out there games the system...most employees are good and I believe most people want to work and work hard, but people do game and/or milk the system all the time. I've never been in any workplace that it doesn't happen. In my current employ we have 135 people...is it realistic at all that every single one of those is just a model employee that would never resort to lying about being sick? I think that would be incredibly naïve. Previous to this I worked in a place with thousands...I don't think you'll find anywhere with thousands of employees who are all just perfect model employees. I didn't make the unicorn comment, but that's where it comes from. It's utterly unrealistic to think everyone is just perfect. Most are great, but there are plenty of bad apples too.7 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.
Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.
Yeah, nobody would ever think to use that as an excuse to take some time off work? I took a half day off as well mostly as a "just in case" and I was totally fine...and it was a Friday sooooo...
How many of these people skipped some other fun activity? I bet it wasn't 1/3. I also wouldn't call a headache and fatigue for a day a particularly adverse reaction...which seems to be the most common complaint from people who've had some kind of issue after the vaccine.
To be honest, I find it quite disrespectful of you and some others in this thread to imply that either I’m naively stupid or my coworkers are lazy liars who take advantage of the situation just to skip work. I have access to everyone’s hour logs, including comments, which clearly state the symptoms they had, and I know these people personally. You don’t. Many have also complained about ruined weekend or evening plans because of vaccine reactions. Don’t know why I’m mentioning this though, since you’ll probably assume they’re just saying that to cover their lies.
Everything is, of course, possible, and workplaces and cultures are different. You just admitted to taking half a day off and starting your weekend early just because you had the convenient excuse of getting vaccinated. At a different job, I might do the same thing. My colleagues just tend to be motivated and committed enough to not do that, and I frequently see evening/weekend hours logged by someone catching up after an absence, even though nobody is expecting or requesting that. Workplaces here are legally required to give pregnant employees paid time off to attend maternity healthcare appointments. I could book them in the middle of the day and take 2-3 hours per appointment to get there, have the appointment and get back. Instead, I voluntarily book them either first thing in the morning or last thing in the afternoon to be efficient, and usually end up covering those hours some other day on the week of the appointment, because I care more about my job and getting everything done than maximising potential paid time off. Most of my colleagues share this mindset, even though nobody is expecting it or pressuring us in any way.
On a different note, the neighboring city (where most of my friends live) opened vaccinations for my age group today - some of my friends booked their appointments at midnight and already received their first shot today. In my city the age group should open next week.
How high is that horse you're on? Don't fall now...
If you think that being motivated by one’s job or defending coworkers when others suggest they’re lazy liars puts one on a high horse, then sure. My horse is high by your standards. If that’s really the case, I’m just going to bow out of this conversation so you can continue living in your world of unmotivated liars and making snide comments to strangers, I’d rather not be a part of that one. I came here to discuss covid and participate in the previous subject of how many people experience reactions to the vaccine, not to be called a unicorn or a high-horse-rider for being motivated by my job or defending and liking my coworkers, who incidentally are also motivated by their jobs. I have appreciated the various viewpoints and perspectives in this discussion, but these kinds of remarks make me want to stay in unicorn land. At least people are respectful there.
Congratulations on making me cry, though. You must feel so much better about yourself.
I'm very motivated by my job...I didn't get to being the CFO out of any lack of motivation or hard work. Talking about how you never take time off because you're just that hard of a worker is being on a high horse...as if people who use something that is a part of their benefits package aren't hard workers. That is literally the definition of "high horse". I proposed a scenario in which people could and do abuse the system...it's not some kind of remote possibility, it happens all the time...then you went off on how lazy I am or my employees are when I was simply putting out a very real world scenario.
I wasn't implying that everyone out there games the system...most employees are good and I believe most people want to work and work hard, but people do game and/or milk the system all the time. I've never been in any workplace that it doesn't happen. In my current employ we have 135 people...is it realistic at all that every single one of those is just a model employee that would never resort to lying about being sick? I think that would be incredibly naïve. Previous to this I worked in a place with thousands...I don't think you'll find anywhere with thousands of employees who are all just perfect model employees. I didn't make the unicorn comment, but that's where it comes from. It's utterly unrealistic to think everyone is just perfect. Most are great, but there are plenty of bad apples too.
I'm not really following the "game the system" thing.
You seemed to be implying that people who booked time off but didn't have a reaction were somehow doing something wrong. But then you said you did exactly that? I'm really not following the point you are making tbh.7 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I have to say though...I don't really understand the "martyrdom" of not using paid time off which is part of one's benefit package, especially if it's use it or lose it. I use mine...I try to keep a bank of 3 weeks vacation and 2 weeks of sick just incase something happens, but otherwise I have no qualms using a benefit that is part of my compensation package. We have a few people that rarely take any time off and it's easy to see that it wears them down...they would be better and more productive if they took some time off for themselves. I am impressed by people getting their stuff done, not necessarily by having a butt in a seat every single day.
For me, it's sick time and, as such, it would be necessary for me to lie and say that I'm too unwell to come to work. It's not acceptable to call in and say that I'm using my paid benefits.
I get eight weeks vacation and I use it (can't carry over or get paid out). For a couple years when they changed the vacation accrual system I got ten weeks each year and I used all of that too. It's not that I don't get or take time off, it's that I rarely get sick. Although I've burned more than half my time already this year a) being genuinely sick b) having Covidesque symptoms, without an alternate diagnosis, that prohibited going to the office c) attending numerous medical appointments.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.
Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.
Yeah, nobody would ever think to use that as an excuse to take some time off work? I took a half day off as well mostly as a "just in case" and I was totally fine...and it was a Friday sooooo...
How many of these people skipped some other fun activity? I bet it wasn't 1/3. I also wouldn't call a headache and fatigue for a day a particularly adverse reaction...which seems to be the most common complaint from people who've had some kind of issue after the vaccine.
To be honest, I find it quite disrespectful of you and some others in this thread to imply that either I’m naively stupid or my coworkers are lazy liars who take advantage of the situation just to skip work. I have access to everyone’s hour logs, including comments, which clearly state the symptoms they had, and I know these people personally. You don’t. Many have also complained about ruined weekend or evening plans because of vaccine reactions. Don’t know why I’m mentioning this though, since you’ll probably assume they’re just saying that to cover their lies.
Everything is, of course, possible, and workplaces and cultures are different. You just admitted to taking half a day off and starting your weekend early just because you had the convenient excuse of getting vaccinated. At a different job, I might do the same thing. My colleagues just tend to be motivated and committed enough to not do that, and I frequently see evening/weekend hours logged by someone catching up after an absence, even though nobody is expecting or requesting that. Workplaces here are legally required to give pregnant employees paid time off to attend maternity healthcare appointments. I could book them in the middle of the day and take 2-3 hours per appointment to get there, have the appointment and get back. Instead, I voluntarily book them either first thing in the morning or last thing in the afternoon to be efficient, and usually end up covering those hours some other day on the week of the appointment, because I care more about my job and getting everything done than maximising potential paid time off. Most of my colleagues share this mindset, even though nobody is expecting it or pressuring us in any way.
On a different note, the neighboring city (where most of my friends live) opened vaccinations for my age group today - some of my friends booked their appointments at midnight and already received their first shot today. In my city the age group should open next week.
How high is that horse you're on? Don't fall now...
If you think that being motivated by one’s job or defending coworkers when others suggest they’re lazy liars puts one on a high horse, then sure. My horse is high by your standards. If that’s really the case, I’m just going to bow out of this conversation so you can continue living in your world of unmotivated liars and making snide comments to strangers, I’d rather not be a part of that one. I came here to discuss covid and participate in the previous subject of how many people experience reactions to the vaccine, not to be called a unicorn or a high-horse-rider for being motivated by my job or defending and liking my coworkers, who incidentally are also motivated by their jobs. I have appreciated the various viewpoints and perspectives in this discussion, but these kinds of remarks make me want to stay in unicorn land. At least people are respectful there.
Congratulations on making me cry, though. You must feel so much better about yourself.
I'm very motivated by my job...I didn't get to being the CFO out of any lack of motivation or hard work. Talking about how you never take time off because you're just that hard of a worker is being on a high horse...as if people who use something that is a part of their benefits package aren't hard workers. That is literally the definition of "high horse". I proposed a scenario in which people could and do abuse the system...it's not some kind of remote possibility, it happens all the time...then you went off on how lazy I am or my employees are when I was simply putting out a very real world scenario.
I wasn't implying that everyone out there games the system...most employees are good and I believe most people want to work and work hard, but people do game and/or milk the system all the time. I've never been in any workplace that it doesn't happen. In my current employ we have 135 people...is it realistic at all that every single one of those is just a model employee that would never resort to lying about being sick? I think that would be incredibly naïve. Previous to this I worked in a place with thousands...I don't think you'll find anywhere with thousands of employees who are all just perfect model employees. I didn't make the unicorn comment, but that's where it comes from. It's utterly unrealistic to think everyone is just perfect. Most are great, but there are plenty of bad apples too.
I'm not really following the "game the system" thing.
You seemed to be implying that people who booked time off but didn't have a reaction were somehow doing something wrong. But then you said you did exactly that? I'm really not following the point you are making tbh.
No, I'm talking about people getting a shot and later calling in saying they aren't well when in fact they are fine but the excuse is convenient and believable vs say...calling in sick the day after the superbowl. Gaming maybe not the right word...milking it may be a better term. People who took time off just in case were pre-approved for their vaccination day and that's fine. I'm talking about the one's who call in the next day or two. Most definitely some of those are valid, but some people also milk the system when they can.
The OP said that about 1/3 of her office had negative reactions and called in sick after the fact and I pointed out that perhaps some of them were using it as an excuse to take extra time off and maybe all of them weren't in fact having any ill effects. It happens...and then she went on going about how everyone at her office is the perfect employee and that would never happen and I've frankly never seen that anywhere I've worked.
Adverse reactions to COVID vaccinations do give people an excuse to call in later and say they aren't well...not saying it's everyone, just that it happens. 1/3 of my organization would be about 45 people calling in the day after saying they aren't well and I just haven't seen that at my office, and if I did I would personally be skeptical that every single one of them was really under the weather and not just wanting to take a day off. That's all I'm saying.
I've been in executive management for 17 years and I've seen all manner of these kinds of things going on. Again, most people are good...some people aren't. I haven't seen that level of call in at my office for any kind of adverse reaction, so to me, 1/3 of an organization sounds like a whole lot of people, particularly when none of my family and friends have really had anything, and only a handful at my office called in later for a headache or fatigue. Just from my own experience, 1/3 of a organization coming down with symptoms needing to stay at home sick from the vaccine seems like a lot and it would make me skeptical...but again, I've seen a lot of nonsense in 17 years.2 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.
Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.
Yeah, nobody would ever think to use that as an excuse to take some time off work? I took a half day off as well mostly as a "just in case" and I was totally fine...and it was a Friday sooooo...
How many of these people skipped some other fun activity? I bet it wasn't 1/3. I also wouldn't call a headache and fatigue for a day a particularly adverse reaction...which seems to be the most common complaint from people who've had some kind of issue after the vaccine.
To be honest, I find it quite disrespectful of you and some others in this thread to imply that either I’m naively stupid or my coworkers are lazy liars who take advantage of the situation just to skip work. I have access to everyone’s hour logs, including comments, which clearly state the symptoms they had, and I know these people personally. You don’t. Many have also complained about ruined weekend or evening plans because of vaccine reactions. Don’t know why I’m mentioning this though, since you’ll probably assume they’re just saying that to cover their lies.
Everything is, of course, possible, and workplaces and cultures are different. You just admitted to taking half a day off and starting your weekend early just because you had the convenient excuse of getting vaccinated. At a different job, I might do the same thing. My colleagues just tend to be motivated and committed enough to not do that, and I frequently see evening/weekend hours logged by someone catching up after an absence, even though nobody is expecting or requesting that. Workplaces here are legally required to give pregnant employees paid time off to attend maternity healthcare appointments. I could book them in the middle of the day and take 2-3 hours per appointment to get there, have the appointment and get back. Instead, I voluntarily book them either first thing in the morning or last thing in the afternoon to be efficient, and usually end up covering those hours some other day on the week of the appointment, because I care more about my job and getting everything done than maximising potential paid time off. Most of my colleagues share this mindset, even though nobody is expecting it or pressuring us in any way.
On a different note, the neighboring city (where most of my friends live) opened vaccinations for my age group today - some of my friends booked their appointments at midnight and already received their first shot today. In my city the age group should open next week.
How high is that horse you're on? Don't fall now...
If you think that being motivated by one’s job or defending coworkers when others suggest they’re lazy liars puts one on a high horse, then sure. My horse is high by your standards. If that’s really the case, I’m just going to bow out of this conversation so you can continue living in your world of unmotivated liars and making snide comments to strangers, I’d rather not be a part of that one. I came here to discuss covid and participate in the previous subject of how many people experience reactions to the vaccine, not to be called a unicorn or a high-horse-rider for being motivated by my job or defending and liking my coworkers, who incidentally are also motivated by their jobs. I have appreciated the various viewpoints and perspectives in this discussion, but these kinds of remarks make me want to stay in unicorn land. At least people are respectful there.
Congratulations on making me cry, though. You must feel so much better about yourself.
I'm very motivated by my job...I didn't get to being the CFO out of any lack of motivation or hard work. Talking about how you never take time off because you're just that hard of a worker is being on a high horse...as if people who use something that is a part of their benefits package aren't hard workers. That is literally the definition of "high horse". I proposed a scenario in which people could and do abuse the system...it's not some kind of remote possibility, it happens all the time...then you went off on how lazy I am or my employees are when I was simply putting out a very real world scenario.
I wasn't implying that everyone out there games the system...most employees are good and I believe most people want to work and work hard, but people do game and/or milk the system all the time. I've never been in any workplace that it doesn't happen. In my current employ we have 135 people...is it realistic at all that every single one of those is just a model employee that would never resort to lying about being sick? I think that would be incredibly naïve. Previous to this I worked in a place with thousands...I don't think you'll find anywhere with thousands of employees who are all just perfect model employees. I didn't make the unicorn comment, but that's where it comes from. It's utterly unrealistic to think everyone is just perfect. Most are great, but there are plenty of bad apples too.
I'm not really following the "game the system" thing.
You seemed to be implying that people who booked time off but didn't have a reaction were somehow doing something wrong. But then you said you did exactly that? I'm really not following the point you are making tbh.
No, I'm talking about people getting a shot and later calling in saying they aren't well when in fact they are fine but the excuse is convenient and believable vs say...calling in sick the day after the superbowl. Gaming maybe not the right word...milking it may be a better term. People who took time off just in case were pre-approved for their vaccination day and that's fine. I'm talking about the one's who call in the next day or two. Most definitely some of those are valid, but some people also milk the system when they can.
The OP said that about 1/3 of her office had negative reactions and called in sick after the fact and I pointed out that perhaps some of them were using it as an excuse to take extra time off and maybe all of them weren't in fact having any ill effects. It happens...and then she went on going about how everyone at her office is the perfect employee and that would never happen and I've frankly never seen that anywhere I've worked.
Adverse reactions to COVID vaccinations do give people an excuse to call in later and say they aren't well...not saying it's everyone, just that it happens. 1/3 of my organization would be about 45 people calling in the day after saying they aren't well and I just haven't seen that at my office, and if I did I would personally be skeptical that every single one of them was really under the weather and not just wanting to take a day off. That's all I'm saying.
I've been in executive management for 17 years and I've seen all manner of these kinds of things going on. Again, most people are good...some people aren't. I haven't seen that level of call in at my office for any kind of adverse reaction, so to me, 1/3 of an organization sounds like a whole lot of people, particularly when none of my family and friends have really had anything, and only a handful at my office called in later for a headache or fatigue. Just from my own experience, 1/3 of a organization coming down with symptoms needing to stay at home sick from the vaccine seems like a lot and it would make me skeptical...but again, I've seen a lot of nonsense in 17 years.
Got it.
Yeah I wouldn't say that I work with perfect people, but I work with professionals in their 40's through 60's so the idea that one of them would lie about being sick to take a day off just doesn't make sense to me. It seems like something teenagers who work at McDonalds would do.
But then as I said my work is super flexible so if someone wanted to take a day off for any random reason no one would really care anyway - we don't track our time that way it is cumulative for the whole year and we self track so it's a totally different scenario. (My employment contract specifies a minimum number of hours I have to work for the year - hours per day/week vary by seasonal work load.)
I've worked this way for 12 years so the idea that grown adults have employers that are so restrictive that they have to lie to get a day off seems kind of foreign to me. I took last Friday afternoon off just because I felt like it. Maybe the OP's work structure is more like mine.4 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.
Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.
Yeah, nobody would ever think to use that as an excuse to take some time off work? I took a half day off as well mostly as a "just in case" and I was totally fine...and it was a Friday sooooo...
How many of these people skipped some other fun activity? I bet it wasn't 1/3. I also wouldn't call a headache and fatigue for a day a particularly adverse reaction...which seems to be the most common complaint from people who've had some kind of issue after the vaccine.
To be honest, I find it quite disrespectful of you and some others in this thread to imply that either I’m naively stupid or my coworkers are lazy liars who take advantage of the situation just to skip work. I have access to everyone’s hour logs, including comments, which clearly state the symptoms they had, and I know these people personally. You don’t. Many have also complained about ruined weekend or evening plans because of vaccine reactions. Don’t know why I’m mentioning this though, since you’ll probably assume they’re just saying that to cover their lies.
Everything is, of course, possible, and workplaces and cultures are different. You just admitted to taking half a day off and starting your weekend early just because you had the convenient excuse of getting vaccinated. At a different job, I might do the same thing. My colleagues just tend to be motivated and committed enough to not do that, and I frequently see evening/weekend hours logged by someone catching up after an absence, even though nobody is expecting or requesting that. Workplaces here are legally required to give pregnant employees paid time off to attend maternity healthcare appointments. I could book them in the middle of the day and take 2-3 hours per appointment to get there, have the appointment and get back. Instead, I voluntarily book them either first thing in the morning or last thing in the afternoon to be efficient, and usually end up covering those hours some other day on the week of the appointment, because I care more about my job and getting everything done than maximising potential paid time off. Most of my colleagues share this mindset, even though nobody is expecting it or pressuring us in any way.
On a different note, the neighboring city (where most of my friends live) opened vaccinations for my age group today - some of my friends booked their appointments at midnight and already received their first shot today. In my city the age group should open next week.
How high is that horse you're on? Don't fall now...
If you think that being motivated by one’s job or defending coworkers when others suggest they’re lazy liars puts one on a high horse, then sure. My horse is high by your standards. If that’s really the case, I’m just going to bow out of this conversation so you can continue living in your world of unmotivated liars and making snide comments to strangers, I’d rather not be a part of that one. I came here to discuss covid and participate in the previous subject of how many people experience reactions to the vaccine, not to be called a unicorn or a high-horse-rider for being motivated by my job or defending and liking my coworkers, who incidentally are also motivated by their jobs. I have appreciated the various viewpoints and perspectives in this discussion, but these kinds of remarks make me want to stay in unicorn land. At least people are respectful there.
Congratulations on making me cry, though. You must feel so much better about yourself.
I'm very motivated by my job...I didn't get to being the CFO out of any lack of motivation or hard work. Talking about how you never take time off because you're just that hard of a worker is being on a high horse...as if people who use something that is a part of their benefits package aren't hard workers. That is literally the definition of "high horse". I proposed a scenario in which people could and do abuse the system...it's not some kind of remote possibility, it happens all the time...then you went off on how lazy I am or my employees are when I was simply putting out a very real world scenario.
I wasn't implying that everyone out there games the system...most employees are good and I believe most people want to work and work hard, but people do game and/or milk the system all the time. I've never been in any workplace that it doesn't happen. In my current employ we have 135 people...is it realistic at all that every single one of those is just a model employee that would never resort to lying about being sick? I think that would be incredibly naïve. Previous to this I worked in a place with thousands...I don't think you'll find anywhere with thousands of employees who are all just perfect model employees. I didn't make the unicorn comment, but that's where it comes from. It's utterly unrealistic to think everyone is just perfect. Most are great, but there are plenty of bad apples too.
I'm not really following the "game the system" thing.
You seemed to be implying that people who booked time off but didn't have a reaction were somehow doing something wrong. But then you said you did exactly that? I'm really not following the point you are making tbh.
No, I'm talking about people getting a shot and later calling in saying they aren't well when in fact they are fine but the excuse is convenient and believable vs say...calling in sick the day after the superbowl. Gaming maybe not the right word...milking it may be a better term. People who took time off just in case were pre-approved for their vaccination day and that's fine. I'm talking about the one's who call in the next day or two. Most definitely some of those are valid, but some people also milk the system when they can.
The OP said that about 1/3 of her office had negative reactions and called in sick after the fact and I pointed out that perhaps some of them were using it as an excuse to take extra time off and maybe all of them weren't in fact having any ill effects. It happens...and then she went on going about how everyone at her office is the perfect employee and that would never happen and I've frankly never seen that anywhere I've worked.
Adverse reactions to COVID vaccinations do give people an excuse to call in later and say they aren't well...not saying it's everyone, just that it happens. 1/3 of my organization would be about 45 people calling in the day after saying they aren't well and I just haven't seen that at my office, and if I did I would personally be skeptical that every single one of them was really under the weather and not just wanting to take a day off. That's all I'm saying.
I've been in executive management for 17 years and I've seen all manner of these kinds of things going on. Again, most people are good...some people aren't. I haven't seen that level of call in at my office for any kind of adverse reaction, so to me, 1/3 of an organization sounds like a whole lot of people, particularly when none of my family and friends have really had anything, and only a handful at my office called in later for a headache or fatigue. Just from my own experience, 1/3 of a organization coming down with symptoms needing to stay at home sick from the vaccine seems like a lot and it would make me skeptical...but again, I've seen a lot of nonsense in 17 years.
Got it.
Yeah I wouldn't say that I work with perfect people, but I work with professionals in their 40's through 60's so the idea that one of them would lie about being sick to take a day off just doesn't make sense to me. It seems like something teenagers who work at McDonalds would do.
But then as I said my work is super flexible so if someone wanted to take a day off for any random reason no one would really care anyway - we don't track our time that way it is cumulative for the whole year and we self track so it's a totally different scenario. (My employment contract specifies a minimum number of hours I have to work for the year - hours per day/week vary by seasonal work load.)
I've worked this way for 12 years so the idea that grown adults have employers that are so restrictive that they have to lie to get a day off seems kind of foreign to me. I took last Friday afternoon off just because I felt like it. Maybe the OP's work structure is more like mine.
Our issue is that my organization distinguishes between sick and annual leave. There are some people who would rather use their sick leave than burn annual leave to stay and home and hang out. We have a very generous leave policy in terms of hours people can take off but some people want to hoard their annual (vacation) leave and use sick leave for anything under the sun. Part of that is because annual leave is mandatory payout if fired or they quit, while sick leave just accumulates into oblivion with no payout...basically, it's not worth cash money if someone decides to quit. I would love that to change, but it's well above my pay grade at the moment. If it were me, it would just be one pool of PTO and could be used in any manner you wish. As it is, annual leave can be used for anything, but sick leave can only be used for being sick or caring for a dependent who is sick...so some people fake sick for a day off. I'm 47 and some of these people are in their 50s and 60s...so definitely not teenage McDonalds workers. They don't have to lie...they just do.
We fired a few people during this COVID thing because we had a policy for out of state travel that you had to quarantine upon return. We had a few lie about it and say they were just taking some time at home and then they posted stuff on Insta, twitter, and FB that said otherwise and came into the office. This was at the height of our infection rates with a no tolerance policy in place. Their reasons were largely political and "you can't tell me what to do" kind of thing.6 -
SummerSkier wrote: »Yes the US Shingles vaccine is a 2 shot series and it is one of the tougher ones. Shingrix I believe. The pharmacy who gave me the shot even noted that was common. But for me the symptoms were 48 hrs max with both shots. The fever was also shorter than the 2nd Pfizer. I was really reluctant to take the 2nd one but I figured I was halfway there so I did. My arm got extremely sore overnight and about 24 hrs in (at work) I started chills and sweats (fever) so I went home. This was before covid protocols. I was fine the next day.
@SModa61 I know you said you did not have a reaction but I recall you got very sick that day your husband went sailing. ???
I had an immediate reaction to the 2nd vaccine. The EMT called it an anxiety reaction and physically my heart rate soared within a few minutes of the shot like someone had given me an adrenilin shot. If it had kept going I would have probably passed out in my car. I felt off for 2 days and had a fever at the 24 hr mark. Since I was working remote I did not take any official time off.
@summerskier Your memory made me look up what I wrote you after my second shot. You are right I was not feeling great, but there was more to the story so that is likely why I don't remember it being much to be blamed on the vaccination, though I do believe it added to my "offness". In contrast, how crappy hubby felt had no other explanation than the vaccine.
This is what I wrote a day or so after: "So me and vaccine day...... well we tried to make the most of the drive to key west by making a day of it. We started with a half day sail that was a gift from our kids for XXXXX's 60th birthday. Well I was sick within 15 minutes of setting sail. Just what I needed that day. They changed course and I eventually felt better, but better is still relative. We get off the boat and my stomach is now off AND I am hungry. But we head to CVS to see if they will take us early and they do, so we were vaccinated around 2:30 on Wednesday. By this point, I am feeling really crappy. I apparently had caffiene withdrawl kicking in on top of everything else. We head for an early dinner because I needed something to settle my stomach. I ordered nachos as the carb loaded option sounded appealing. Well out came a roughly 3 lb platter that could feed a group of football players. By the time I got home, I headed straight to bed. Thursday, i felt crappy. Low temp, continued upset stomach and body aches. Yesterday "I don't care" eating. argh. I hate seeing my bad behaviors creep back in and they have this entire past week. "
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cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.
Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.
Yeah, nobody would ever think to use that as an excuse to take some time off work? I took a half day off as well mostly as a "just in case" and I was totally fine...and it was a Friday sooooo...
How many of these people skipped some other fun activity? I bet it wasn't 1/3. I also wouldn't call a headache and fatigue for a day a particularly adverse reaction...which seems to be the most common complaint from people who've had some kind of issue after the vaccine.
To be honest, I find it quite disrespectful of you and some others in this thread to imply that either I’m naively stupid or my coworkers are lazy liars who take advantage of the situation just to skip work. I have access to everyone’s hour logs, including comments, which clearly state the symptoms they had, and I know these people personally. You don’t. Many have also complained about ruined weekend or evening plans because of vaccine reactions. Don’t know why I’m mentioning this though, since you’ll probably assume they’re just saying that to cover their lies.
Everything is, of course, possible, and workplaces and cultures are different. You just admitted to taking half a day off and starting your weekend early just because you had the convenient excuse of getting vaccinated. At a different job, I might do the same thing. My colleagues just tend to be motivated and committed enough to not do that, and I frequently see evening/weekend hours logged by someone catching up after an absence, even though nobody is expecting or requesting that. Workplaces here are legally required to give pregnant employees paid time off to attend maternity healthcare appointments. I could book them in the middle of the day and take 2-3 hours per appointment to get there, have the appointment and get back. Instead, I voluntarily book them either first thing in the morning or last thing in the afternoon to be efficient, and usually end up covering those hours some other day on the week of the appointment, because I care more about my job and getting everything done than maximising potential paid time off. Most of my colleagues share this mindset, even though nobody is expecting it or pressuring us in any way.
On a different note, the neighboring city (where most of my friends live) opened vaccinations for my age group today - some of my friends booked their appointments at midnight and already received their first shot today. In my city the age group should open next week.
In the last year, 40 percent of employees have called in sick to work when they were not actually sick, up from 35 percent in 2016, according to a new report from CareerBuilder. Women were more likely to take a sick day when they were well – 43 percent compared to 35 percent of men.
https://www.bizjournals.com/bizwomen/news/latest-news/2017/11/more-staffers-calling-in-sick-even-if-theyre-not.html?page=all#:~:text=In the last year, 40 percent of employees have called,to 35 percent of men.
This was from 2017, guessing it's more now.
Now I work in a professional setting where we don't have a limit on sick time (unless it gets to stupid levels). We also don't have anyone doing our work while we are out sick for a few days. We're generally expected to meet due dates whether sick or not. So in our case not a lot calling in sick, you just chug along unless you're on death's door because you're not looking to be working 16 hour days to make up for time spent being sick. Other situations, like in the factory outside my office, lot more calling in sick.2 -
kshama2001 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I know shingles vaccine in US is different brand than we use in Australia - but I have given many shingles vaccines to people and nobody has reported much at all in way of side effects.
@paperpudding I would swear I have read people saying that their shingles vaccine reaction was worse than their COVID. I hope that your observations are the reality.paperpudding wrote: »I'm not sure how many people have said that.
It isn't my observation of patients here though ( we do use different brand to US,not sure if that matters)
Here in the US we use Shingrix, which has more reports of reaction than the now discontinued in the US Zostavax.
https://www.singlecare.com/blog/shingrix-vs-zostavax/Compared to Zostavax, Shingrix has been reported to cause more systemic reactions like headache, fever, muscle pain (myalgia), and fatigue.
I am scheduled to have my second Shingrix shot in July. I'm very curious about my reaction because while I got really sick after my first shot, some or all of that may have been due to the Anaplasmosis I was diagnosed with later that month.
@kshama2001 If you think of it, update me after your second shot. I have been debating that vaccine for a while because i am not sure I understand the risks to me if I don't take it. I have already had shingles at age 32, and then gave my son the chicken pox who gave it to his whole kindergarten class as well as his baby sister.5 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Re: "Yeah, in my experience, that "use any excuse" thing is far from universal."
Of course it's not universal. I haven't taken all (or even most of, or in some years more than a couple of days of) my vacation in forever and I never take sick days. But claiming no one games the system seems unrealistic. That said, I think many people planned time off in case of bad reactions (I know several people who planned time off in advance in case) and that doesn't say whether they had them or not (I do think plenty of people did have minor-ish bad reactions, including me, and I worked but didn't work out and I enjoy working out). But if I hadn't ended up having things I absolutely had to do on that Friday after, I would have taken it off.
It's definitely not universal, but it most definitely happens. My organization consists of 135 people which is the smallest I've ever worked for. We strongly encouraged employees to take their sick time if they had it available on the days they received their shots just in case, and the vast majority did.
We didn't have anywhere close to 1/3 or our organization call in after their shot saying that they weren't feeling well....that would have been about 44/45 people. As I recall, we've had about 10-12 that have said they didn't feel well enough to come to work...mostly headache and/or fatigue. I know of at least three that I would say it is about a 90% probability of being utter BS due to past history, but not enough there to actually do anything more than have them on a "watch close" list.
I have to say though...I don't really understand the "martyrdom" of not using paid time off which is part of one's benefit package, especially if it's use it or lose it. I use mine...I try to keep a bank of 3 weeks vacation and 2 weeks of sick just incase something happens, but otherwise I have no qualms using a benefit that is part of my compensation package. We have a few people that rarely take any time off and it's easy to see that it wears them down...they would be better and more productive if they took some time off for themselves. I am impressed by people getting their stuff done, not necessarily by having a butt in a seat every single day.
It's not "martyrdom" and it's not that specifically defined at my job. Basically if I bill the hours I should bill and am not unavailable when I need to be available, my job is pretty flexible. I tend to overvalue my importance, I'm sure, which is why some years I don't plan time off way in advance (I mean like a vacation) and then feel like the deadlines in various cases prevent me from finding a convenient time to do it. I had planned to go to England and Wales in 2020, but obviously things came up unrelated to my job.
I don't take "sick" days (unless actually sick) since I have no specific number of sick days that are part of a benefit package (for staff they are just part of overall paid days off). I'm lucky, I know, including that I almost never get sick.
I'm at a much smaller workplace than you, but it was similar when I was at a big firm too.
And, yeah, I'd be better off if I took real vacation more often. At one point I did and then I had a run of years that were challenging and then covid when I had decided I was finally going to plan one sufficiently in advance to do it. And during covid in 2020 the general message I got was that obviously I wasn't going anywhere so why bother when you could be contributing (there was a lot of panic early on that covid would lead to financial problems, although that turned out fine after all).1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.
Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.
Yeah, nobody would ever think to use that as an excuse to take some time off work? I took a half day off as well mostly as a "just in case" and I was totally fine...and it was a Friday sooooo...
How many of these people skipped some other fun activity? I bet it wasn't 1/3. I also wouldn't call a headache and fatigue for a day a particularly adverse reaction...which seems to be the most common complaint from people who've had some kind of issue after the vaccine.
To be honest, I find it quite disrespectful of you and some others in this thread to imply that either I’m naively stupid or my coworkers are lazy liars who take advantage of the situation just to skip work. I have access to everyone’s hour logs, including comments, which clearly state the symptoms they had, and I know these people personally. You don’t. Many have also complained about ruined weekend or evening plans because of vaccine reactions. Don’t know why I’m mentioning this though, since you’ll probably assume they’re just saying that to cover their lies.
Everything is, of course, possible, and workplaces and cultures are different. You just admitted to taking half a day off and starting your weekend early just because you had the convenient excuse of getting vaccinated. At a different job, I might do the same thing. My colleagues just tend to be motivated and committed enough to not do that, and I frequently see evening/weekend hours logged by someone catching up after an absence, even though nobody is expecting or requesting that. Workplaces here are legally required to give pregnant employees paid time off to attend maternity healthcare appointments. I could book them in the middle of the day and take 2-3 hours per appointment to get there, have the appointment and get back. Instead, I voluntarily book them either first thing in the morning or last thing in the afternoon to be efficient, and usually end up covering those hours some other day on the week of the appointment, because I care more about my job and getting everything done than maximising potential paid time off. Most of my colleagues share this mindset, even though nobody is expecting it or pressuring us in any way.
On a different note, the neighboring city (where most of my friends live) opened vaccinations for my age group today - some of my friends booked their appointments at midnight and already received their first shot today. In my city the age group should open next week.
How high is that horse you're on? Don't fall now...
If you think that being motivated by one’s job or defending coworkers when others suggest they’re lazy liars puts one on a high horse, then sure. My horse is high by your standards. If that’s really the case, I’m just going to bow out of this conversation so you can continue living in your world of unmotivated liars and making snide comments to strangers, I’d rather not be a part of that one. I came here to discuss covid and participate in the previous subject of how many people experience reactions to the vaccine, not to be called a unicorn or a high-horse-rider for being motivated by my job or defending and liking my coworkers, who incidentally are also motivated by their jobs. I have appreciated the various viewpoints and perspectives in this discussion, but these kinds of remarks make me want to stay in unicorn land. At least people are respectful there.
Congratulations on making me cry, though. You must feel so much better about yourself.
I'm very motivated by my job...I didn't get to being the CFO out of any lack of motivation or hard work. Talking about how you never take time off because you're just that hard of a worker is being on a high horse...as if people who use something that is a part of their benefits package aren't hard workers. That is literally the definition of "high horse". I proposed a scenario in which people could and do abuse the system...it's not some kind of remote possibility, it happens all the time...then you went off on how lazy I am or my employees are when I was simply putting out a very real world scenario.
I wasn't implying that everyone out there games the system...most employees are good and I believe most people want to work and work hard, but people do game and/or milk the system all the time. I've never been in any workplace that it doesn't happen. In my current employ we have 135 people...is it realistic at all that every single one of those is just a model employee that would never resort to lying about being sick? I think that would be incredibly naïve. Previous to this I worked in a place with thousands...I don't think you'll find anywhere with thousands of employees who are all just perfect model employees. I didn't make the unicorn comment, but that's where it comes from. It's utterly unrealistic to think everyone is just perfect. Most are great, but there are plenty of bad apples too.
I'm not really following the "game the system" thing.
You seemed to be implying that people who booked time off but didn't have a reaction were somehow doing something wrong. But then you said you did exactly that? I'm really not following the point you are making tbh.
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with booking time off in case one had a reaction. I am also confused. I didn't (since I work at home anyway and could have just done the things that needed to be done and pushed everything else off to the next day, which was a Saturday), but I definitely avoided scheduling a tough and adversarial meeting the next morning after a late afternoon shot since I didn't know how the vaccine would affect me.
Also, at my office staff gets a certain number of paid days off (increasing with seniority), so taking a sick day would cut into that. (If someone had a medical issue, that would be something we would be flexible about, and we have maternity leave too, that is separate.) Lawyers generally get judged by hours they bill without having specific sick days or vacation (although there's going to be a common sense understanding, at least when we worked from the office). At the present, it's really not all that formal at all, as everyone is working from home. Booking time off would simply mean no one else in theory would ask you to do something (or you would tell people you were unavailable). I just think office environments are really different.
That said, my anecdotal evidence from what I've heard from others re reactions is that it's not nearly 1/3 that would actually be so bad you call in sick, but I also didn't consider my own reaction (which was real) "call in sick" type. I was happy I'd planned a lighter day, and I do think many people just did that too (my second shot was scheduled 3 weeks after the first, so I knew when it would be).2 -
I'm at an age where I should get the shingles vaccine too, and I'm more intimidated to get it than the covid one (which I was excited and happy to get), and also don't feel the "do this for public health and so this nightmare can finally be over" pressure to do it ASAP. Also curious about how it goes, kshama. I really don't want shingles, granted!5
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I was on a waiting list for Shingrix pre-pandemic, never ended up with an appointment and didn't press it because of the pandemic. It was in short supply here. Just need to schedule it, having recently found someplace that has it.
I've had shingles once, in my 40s, possibly twice - mild. Reportedly, it's more likely to be more severe as one gets older, and it can recur multiple times. Two of the toughest women I know (mom & cousin) were laid low by it, when around the age I am now. I expect I may have an unpleasant reaction to Shingrix, but there's no possible way the reaction could be worse than what those two women went through, unless I'm a vanishingly rare case of (near-)fatal vax reaction.
While there's maybe not quite as strong a case for avoiding shingles as for avoiding Covid, there's a strong case. Let alone the routine occurrence of pretty severe long term nerve pain (15-20% of cases), worse can happen. Ocular shingles, for example, is a possibility, with serious vision damage, even blindness, as a result. In rare cases, it can cause encephalitis, hearing loss, even death.
The likelihood of a few flu-y days seems minor in comparison, to me.
Not that this has anything to do with Covid. 😆7 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Re: "Yeah, in my experience, that "use any excuse" thing is far from universal."
Of course it's not universal. I haven't taken all (or even most of, or in some years more than a couple of days of) my vacation in forever and I never take sick days. But claiming no one games the system seems unrealistic. That said, I think many people planned time off in case of bad reactions (I know several people who planned time off in advance in case) and that doesn't say whether they had them or not (I do think plenty of people did have minor-ish bad reactions, including me, and I worked but didn't work out and I enjoy working out). But if I hadn't ended up having things I absolutely had to do on that Friday after, I would have taken it off.
It's definitely not universal, but it most definitely happens. My organization consists of 135 people which is the smallest I've ever worked for. We strongly encouraged employees to take their sick time if they had it available on the days they received their shots just in case, and the vast majority did.
We didn't have anywhere close to 1/3 or our organization call in after their shot saying that they weren't feeling well....that would have been about 44/45 people. As I recall, we've had about 10-12 that have said they didn't feel well enough to come to work...mostly headache and/or fatigue. I know of at least three that I would say it is about a 90% probability of being utter BS due to past history, but not enough there to actually do anything more than have them on a "watch close" list.
I have to say though...I don't really understand the "martyrdom" of not using paid time off which is part of one's benefit package, especially if it's use it or lose it. I use mine...I try to keep a bank of 3 weeks vacation and 2 weeks of sick just incase something happens, but otherwise I have no qualms using a benefit that is part of my compensation package. We have a few people that rarely take any time off and it's easy to see that it wears them down...they would be better and more productive if they took some time off for themselves. I am impressed by people getting their stuff done, not necessarily by having a butt in a seat every single day.
I don't understand this. Why would you expect people to call in and report on what their reaction was when the "vast majority" already scheduled sick leave "just in case" because your organization "strongly" encouraged them to? If I've scheduled sick leave ahead of time, whether it be for a medical appointment or to take care of a family member's health needs (acceptable use of sick leave at my organization), it would never cross my mind that I needed to call in and report any symptoms I might end up experiencing that day.
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I had the Shingrix #1 in Nov & #2 in Jan & I don't remember any reaction other than a sore arm.7
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.
Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.
Yeah, nobody would ever think to use that as an excuse to take some time off work? I took a half day off as well mostly as a "just in case" and I was totally fine...and it was a Friday sooooo...
How many of these people skipped some other fun activity? I bet it wasn't 1/3. I also wouldn't call a headache and fatigue for a day a particularly adverse reaction...which seems to be the most common complaint from people who've had some kind of issue after the vaccine.
To be honest, I find it quite disrespectful of you and some others in this thread to imply that either I’m naively stupid or my coworkers are lazy liars who take advantage of the situation just to skip work. I have access to everyone’s hour logs, including comments, which clearly state the symptoms they had, and I know these people personally. You don’t. Many have also complained about ruined weekend or evening plans because of vaccine reactions. Don’t know why I’m mentioning this though, since you’ll probably assume they’re just saying that to cover their lies.
Everything is, of course, possible, and workplaces and cultures are different. You just admitted to taking half a day off and starting your weekend early just because you had the convenient excuse of getting vaccinated. At a different job, I might do the same thing. My colleagues just tend to be motivated and committed enough to not do that, and I frequently see evening/weekend hours logged by someone catching up after an absence, even though nobody is expecting or requesting that. Workplaces here are legally required to give pregnant employees paid time off to attend maternity healthcare appointments. I could book them in the middle of the day and take 2-3 hours per appointment to get there, have the appointment and get back. Instead, I voluntarily book them either first thing in the morning or last thing in the afternoon to be efficient, and usually end up covering those hours some other day on the week of the appointment, because I care more about my job and getting everything done than maximising potential paid time off. Most of my colleagues share this mindset, even though nobody is expecting it or pressuring us in any way.
On a different note, the neighboring city (where most of my friends live) opened vaccinations for my age group today - some of my friends booked their appointments at midnight and already received their first shot today. In my city the age group should open next week.
In the last year, 40 percent of employees have called in sick to work when they were not actually sick, up from 35 percent in 2016, according to a new report from CareerBuilder. Women were more likely to take a sick day when they were well – 43 percent compared to 35 percent of men.
https://www.bizjournals.com/bizwomen/news/latest-news/2017/11/more-staffers-calling-in-sick-even-if-theyre-not.html?page=all#:~:text=In the last year, 40 percent of employees have called,to 35 percent of men.
This was from 2017, guessing it's more now.
Now I work in a professional setting where we don't have a limit on sick time (unless it gets to stupid levels). We also don't have anyone doing our work while we are out sick for a few days. We're generally expected to meet due dates whether sick or not. So in our case not a lot calling in sick, you just chug along unless you're on death's door because you're not looking to be working 16 hour days to make up for time spent being sick. Other situations, like in the factory outside my office, lot more calling in sick.
From the article you cite:
More than half of respondents work for companies that offer paid time off, but 28 percent of employees said they feel the need to make up an excuse to take a day off.
That sounds to me like companies have created a culture that discourages or penalizes employees who want to take the vacation time they've earned, so they have to claim to be sick and use sick time instead. But, yeah, it's the employees who are the bad actors.8 -
kshama2001 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I know shingles vaccine in US is different brand than we use in Australia - but I have given many shingles vaccines to people and nobody has reported much at all in way of side effects.
@paperpudding I would swear I have read people saying that their shingles vaccine reaction was worse than their COVID. I hope that your observations are the reality.paperpudding wrote: »I'm not sure how many people have said that.
It isn't my observation of patients here though ( we do use different brand to US,not sure if that matters)
Here in the US we use Shingrix, which has more reports of reaction than the now discontinued in the US Zostavax.
https://www.singlecare.com/blog/shingrix-vs-zostavax/Compared to Zostavax, Shingrix has been reported to cause more systemic reactions like headache, fever, muscle pain (myalgia), and fatigue.
I am scheduled to have my second Shingrix shot in July. I'm very curious about my reaction because while I got really sick after my first shot, some or all of that may have been due to the Anaplasmosis I was diagnosed with later that month.
@kshama2001 If you think of it, update me after your second shot. I have been debating that vaccine for a while because i am not sure I understand the risks to me if I don't take it. I have already had shingles at age 32, and then gave my son the chicken pox who gave it to his whole kindergarten class as well as his baby sister.
You can get shingles more than once. And now your son and his whole kindergarten class and his baby sister can get it when they grow up.6 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »No, I'm talking about people getting a shot and later calling in saying they aren't well when in fact they are fine but the excuse is convenient and believable vs say...calling in sick the day after the superbowl. Gaming maybe not the right word...milking it may be a better term. People who took time off just in case were pre-approved for their vaccination day and that's fine. I'm talking about the one's who call in the next day or two. Most definitely some of those are valid, but some people also milk the system when they can.
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I've been in executive management for 17 years and I've seen all manner of these kinds of things going on. Again, most people are good...some people aren't. I haven't seen that level of call in at my office for any kind of adverse reaction, so to me, 1/3 of an organization sounds like a whole lot of people, particularly when none of my family and friends have really had anything, and only a handful at my office called in later for a headache or fatigue. Just from my own experience, 1/3 of a organization coming down with symptoms needing to stay at home sick from the vaccine seems like a lot and it would make me skeptical...but again, I've seen a lot of nonsense in 17 years.
OK, it seems our jobs share some similarities, and some major differences to cause such different perspectives. I’m in executive management as well, and work in a much smaller environment so the sample size is different and I’m personally involved in all aspects of HR and wellbeing of our staff. A major part of my job is knowing our employees and their patterns, taking care of their wellbeing (including defending them when someone makes unfair claims or the company tries to do something that would negatively affect them) and making sure everyone takes enough time off. These things and work hours are tracked, not because we don’t trust our employees or want to track everything they do, but because changes in those patterns or not taking time off are usually indications of something negative that needs to be taken care of so that person’s wellbeing or motivation isn’t negatively affected. It’s the personal familiarity with these people and knowing their patterns (who takes sick leave more often/easier than others etc.) that makes me believe them. The sample size is small, with 30ish employees, out of whom roughly 20 were age-eligible for the vaccine at the start of this discussion (my city doesn’t start 30-34 until next week).
Our paid time off system seems very different as well - we’re based in Finland and have basically unlimited sick leave and 5 weeks of paid vacation per year. Anyone can take up to 3 days of sick time per sickness by simply calling in, and longer sick leaves need a doctor’s note from company healthcare that can be accessed in all of their locations around the country or online via chat/video appointments (how soon you need the doctor’s note depends on employer). Since sick leave is unlimited, every single day is a potential sick day, yet people rarely call in sick. Taking care of a sick child who’s younger than 10 years old is also paid time off. Considering all this, we have remarkably little sick leave and most of it is about caring for sick children or taking one day off at the height of one’s flu symptoms, when in a different job you’d take three. If someone works overtime, that overtime gets accumulated and people can take equal time off as paid. Those accumulated hours can be used freely for shorter days (like leaving early on Friday), full days off are pre-agreed. My most frequent discussions with staff revolve around things like when they are taking vacation, do they already have a plan for those accumulated overtime hours, and that they should rest and not work when being sick even though working from home is sitting on your couch/desk with your laptop. Last month there was a bank holiday on a Thursday, so I encouraged most of our staff to take the Friday off to burn those accumulated hours in an efficient way, so they can have a relaxing 4-day weekend and a longer summer or Christmas vacation to rest and relax. Saying I, or my colleagues, don’t take time off or that we’d take pride/martyrdom in that is a far cry from reality and a false assumption.
I’ve seen different workplaces and environments where calling in sick is much more frequent, partially due to culture and lack of motivation, partially because the demands of the job are different. I used to work at a fish and deli counter in a supermarket and that job was very physical, made me an infection risk if I was sick, and couldn’t be done remotely. The culture there was also a lot less motivating, so the combination of culture and work demands made me a lot closer to the example of a McBurger-flipping teen calling in sick when they didn’t feel like working or had minor symptoms they could have worked through. My current job has been in a office-remote hybrid since the company was founded and everyone does their jobs on a computer, so it’s a lot easier to stay home and focus on easier tasks when one has mild symptoms, or do a shorter day and dip into accumulated overtime or take a few hours of sick leave.
I have never claimed that everyone everywhere is a good person never milking the system. I was defending my staff and, yes, getting upset when it was implied that these particular people were dishonest or milking the system or that I live in naive unicorn land for believing in these people I know personally. Does that type of dishonesty/milking the system happen someplace else? Probably. Is it fair to assume that the sample I provided to add to discussion is false? I don’t think so.7
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