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  • ythannahythannah Member Posts: 3,910 Member Member Posts: 3,910 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    I have to say though...I don't really understand the "martyrdom" of not using paid time off which is part of one's benefit package, especially if it's use it or lose it. I use mine...I try to keep a bank of 3 weeks vacation and 2 weeks of sick just incase something happens, but otherwise I have no qualms using a benefit that is part of my compensation package. We have a few people that rarely take any time off and it's easy to see that it wears them down...they would be better and more productive if they took some time off for themselves. I am impressed by people getting their stuff done, not necessarily by having a butt in a seat every single day.

    For me, it's sick time and, as such, it would be necessary for me to lie and say that I'm too unwell to come to work. It's not acceptable to call in and say that I'm using my paid benefits.

    I get eight weeks vacation and I use it (can't carry over or get paid out). For a couple years when they changed the vacation accrual system I got ten weeks each year and I used all of that too. It's not that I don't get or take time off, it's that I rarely get sick. Although I've burned more than half my time already this year a) being genuinely sick b) having Covidesque symptoms, without an alternate diagnosis, that prohibited going to the office c) attending numerous medical appointments.
  • cwolfman13cwolfman13 Member Posts: 39,582 Member Member Posts: 39,582 Member
    33gail33 wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    hipari wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    hipari wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    hipari wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.

    Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.

    Yeah, nobody would ever think to use that as an excuse to take some time off work? I took a half day off as well mostly as a "just in case" and I was totally fine...and it was a Friday sooooo...

    How many of these people skipped some other fun activity? I bet it wasn't 1/3. I also wouldn't call a headache and fatigue for a day a particularly adverse reaction...which seems to be the most common complaint from people who've had some kind of issue after the vaccine.

    To be honest, I find it quite disrespectful of you and some others in this thread to imply that either I’m naively stupid or my coworkers are lazy liars who take advantage of the situation just to skip work. I have access to everyone’s hour logs, including comments, which clearly state the symptoms they had, and I know these people personally. You don’t. Many have also complained about ruined weekend or evening plans because of vaccine reactions. Don’t know why I’m mentioning this though, since you’ll probably assume they’re just saying that to cover their lies.

    Everything is, of course, possible, and workplaces and cultures are different. You just admitted to taking half a day off and starting your weekend early just because you had the convenient excuse of getting vaccinated. At a different job, I might do the same thing. My colleagues just tend to be motivated and committed enough to not do that, and I frequently see evening/weekend hours logged by someone catching up after an absence, even though nobody is expecting or requesting that. Workplaces here are legally required to give pregnant employees paid time off to attend maternity healthcare appointments. I could book them in the middle of the day and take 2-3 hours per appointment to get there, have the appointment and get back. Instead, I voluntarily book them either first thing in the morning or last thing in the afternoon to be efficient, and usually end up covering those hours some other day on the week of the appointment, because I care more about my job and getting everything done than maximising potential paid time off. Most of my colleagues share this mindset, even though nobody is expecting it or pressuring us in any way.

    On a different note, the neighboring city (where most of my friends live) opened vaccinations for my age group today - some of my friends booked their appointments at midnight and already received their first shot today. In my city the age group should open next week.

    How high is that horse you're on? Don't fall now...

    If you think that being motivated by one’s job or defending coworkers when others suggest they’re lazy liars puts one on a high horse, then sure. My horse is high by your standards. If that’s really the case, I’m just going to bow out of this conversation so you can continue living in your world of unmotivated liars and making snide comments to strangers, I’d rather not be a part of that one. I came here to discuss covid and participate in the previous subject of how many people experience reactions to the vaccine, not to be called a unicorn or a high-horse-rider for being motivated by my job or defending and liking my coworkers, who incidentally are also motivated by their jobs. I have appreciated the various viewpoints and perspectives in this discussion, but these kinds of remarks make me want to stay in unicorn land. At least people are respectful there.

    Congratulations on making me cry, though. You must feel so much better about yourself.

    I'm very motivated by my job...I didn't get to being the CFO out of any lack of motivation or hard work. Talking about how you never take time off because you're just that hard of a worker is being on a high horse...as if people who use something that is a part of their benefits package aren't hard workers. That is literally the definition of "high horse". I proposed a scenario in which people could and do abuse the system...it's not some kind of remote possibility, it happens all the time...then you went off on how lazy I am or my employees are when I was simply putting out a very real world scenario.

    I wasn't implying that everyone out there games the system...most employees are good and I believe most people want to work and work hard, but people do game and/or milk the system all the time. I've never been in any workplace that it doesn't happen. In my current employ we have 135 people...is it realistic at all that every single one of those is just a model employee that would never resort to lying about being sick? I think that would be incredibly naïve. Previous to this I worked in a place with thousands...I don't think you'll find anywhere with thousands of employees who are all just perfect model employees. I didn't make the unicorn comment, but that's where it comes from. It's utterly unrealistic to think everyone is just perfect. Most are great, but there are plenty of bad apples too.

    I'm not really following the "game the system" thing.

    You seemed to be implying that people who booked time off but didn't have a reaction were somehow doing something wrong. But then you said you did exactly that? I'm really not following the point you are making tbh.

    No, I'm talking about people getting a shot and later calling in saying they aren't well when in fact they are fine but the excuse is convenient and believable vs say...calling in sick the day after the superbowl. Gaming maybe not the right word...milking it may be a better term. People who took time off just in case were pre-approved for their vaccination day and that's fine. I'm talking about the one's who call in the next day or two. Most definitely some of those are valid, but some people also milk the system when they can.

    The OP said that about 1/3 of her office had negative reactions and called in sick after the fact and I pointed out that perhaps some of them were using it as an excuse to take extra time off and maybe all of them weren't in fact having any ill effects. It happens...and then she went on going about how everyone at her office is the perfect employee and that would never happen and I've frankly never seen that anywhere I've worked.

    Adverse reactions to COVID vaccinations do give people an excuse to call in later and say they aren't well...not saying it's everyone, just that it happens. 1/3 of my organization would be about 45 people calling in the day after saying they aren't well and I just haven't seen that at my office, and if I did I would personally be skeptical that every single one of them was really under the weather and not just wanting to take a day off. That's all I'm saying.

    I've been in executive management for 17 years and I've seen all manner of these kinds of things going on. Again, most people are good...some people aren't. I haven't seen that level of call in at my office for any kind of adverse reaction, so to me, 1/3 of an organization sounds like a whole lot of people, particularly when none of my family and friends have really had anything, and only a handful at my office called in later for a headache or fatigue. Just from my own experience, 1/3 of a organization coming down with symptoms needing to stay at home sick from the vaccine seems like a lot and it would make me skeptical...but again, I've seen a lot of nonsense in 17 years.
    edited June 8
  • 33gail3333gail33 Member Posts: 956 Member Member Posts: 956 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    hipari wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    hipari wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    hipari wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.

    Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.

    Yeah, nobody would ever think to use that as an excuse to take some time off work? I took a half day off as well mostly as a "just in case" and I was totally fine...and it was a Friday sooooo...

    How many of these people skipped some other fun activity? I bet it wasn't 1/3. I also wouldn't call a headache and fatigue for a day a particularly adverse reaction...which seems to be the most common complaint from people who've had some kind of issue after the vaccine.

    To be honest, I find it quite disrespectful of you and some others in this thread to imply that either I’m naively stupid or my coworkers are lazy liars who take advantage of the situation just to skip work. I have access to everyone’s hour logs, including comments, which clearly state the symptoms they had, and I know these people personally. You don’t. Many have also complained about ruined weekend or evening plans because of vaccine reactions. Don’t know why I’m mentioning this though, since you’ll probably assume they’re just saying that to cover their lies.

    Everything is, of course, possible, and workplaces and cultures are different. You just admitted to taking half a day off and starting your weekend early just because you had the convenient excuse of getting vaccinated. At a different job, I might do the same thing. My colleagues just tend to be motivated and committed enough to not do that, and I frequently see evening/weekend hours logged by someone catching up after an absence, even though nobody is expecting or requesting that. Workplaces here are legally required to give pregnant employees paid time off to attend maternity healthcare appointments. I could book them in the middle of the day and take 2-3 hours per appointment to get there, have the appointment and get back. Instead, I voluntarily book them either first thing in the morning or last thing in the afternoon to be efficient, and usually end up covering those hours some other day on the week of the appointment, because I care more about my job and getting everything done than maximising potential paid time off. Most of my colleagues share this mindset, even though nobody is expecting it or pressuring us in any way.

    On a different note, the neighboring city (where most of my friends live) opened vaccinations for my age group today - some of my friends booked their appointments at midnight and already received their first shot today. In my city the age group should open next week.

    How high is that horse you're on? Don't fall now...

    If you think that being motivated by one’s job or defending coworkers when others suggest they’re lazy liars puts one on a high horse, then sure. My horse is high by your standards. If that’s really the case, I’m just going to bow out of this conversation so you can continue living in your world of unmotivated liars and making snide comments to strangers, I’d rather not be a part of that one. I came here to discuss covid and participate in the previous subject of how many people experience reactions to the vaccine, not to be called a unicorn or a high-horse-rider for being motivated by my job or defending and liking my coworkers, who incidentally are also motivated by their jobs. I have appreciated the various viewpoints and perspectives in this discussion, but these kinds of remarks make me want to stay in unicorn land. At least people are respectful there.

    Congratulations on making me cry, though. You must feel so much better about yourself.

    I'm very motivated by my job...I didn't get to being the CFO out of any lack of motivation or hard work. Talking about how you never take time off because you're just that hard of a worker is being on a high horse...as if people who use something that is a part of their benefits package aren't hard workers. That is literally the definition of "high horse". I proposed a scenario in which people could and do abuse the system...it's not some kind of remote possibility, it happens all the time...then you went off on how lazy I am or my employees are when I was simply putting out a very real world scenario.

    I wasn't implying that everyone out there games the system...most employees are good and I believe most people want to work and work hard, but people do game and/or milk the system all the time. I've never been in any workplace that it doesn't happen. In my current employ we have 135 people...is it realistic at all that every single one of those is just a model employee that would never resort to lying about being sick? I think that would be incredibly naïve. Previous to this I worked in a place with thousands...I don't think you'll find anywhere with thousands of employees who are all just perfect model employees. I didn't make the unicorn comment, but that's where it comes from. It's utterly unrealistic to think everyone is just perfect. Most are great, but there are plenty of bad apples too.

    I'm not really following the "game the system" thing.

    You seemed to be implying that people who booked time off but didn't have a reaction were somehow doing something wrong. But then you said you did exactly that? I'm really not following the point you are making tbh.

    No, I'm talking about people getting a shot and later calling in saying they aren't well when in fact they are fine but the excuse is convenient and believable vs say...calling in sick the day after the superbowl. Gaming maybe not the right word...milking it may be a better term. People who took time off just in case were pre-approved for their vaccination day and that's fine. I'm talking about the one's who call in the next day or two. Most definitely some of those are valid, but some people also milk the system when they can.

    The OP said that about 1/3 of her office had negative reactions and called in sick after the fact and I pointed out that perhaps some of them were using it as an excuse to take extra time off and maybe all of them weren't in fact having any ill effects. It happens...and then she went on going about how everyone at her office is the perfect employee and that would never happen and I've frankly never seen that anywhere I've worked.

    Adverse reactions to COVID vaccinations do give people an excuse to call in later and say they aren't well...not saying it's everyone, just that it happens. 1/3 of my organization would be about 45 people calling in the day after saying they aren't well and I just haven't seen that at my office, and if I did I would personally be skeptical that every single one of them was really under the weather and not just wanting to take a day off. That's all I'm saying.

    I've been in executive management for 17 years and I've seen all manner of these kinds of things going on. Again, most people are good...some people aren't. I haven't seen that level of call in at my office for any kind of adverse reaction, so to me, 1/3 of an organization sounds like a whole lot of people, particularly when none of my family and friends have really had anything, and only a handful at my office called in later for a headache or fatigue. Just from my own experience, 1/3 of a organization coming down with symptoms needing to stay at home sick from the vaccine seems like a lot and it would make me skeptical...but again, I've seen a lot of nonsense in 17 years.

    Got it.

    Yeah I wouldn't say that I work with perfect people, but I work with professionals in their 40's through 60's so the idea that one of them would lie about being sick to take a day off just doesn't make sense to me. It seems like something teenagers who work at McDonalds would do.

    But then as I said my work is super flexible so if someone wanted to take a day off for any random reason no one would really care anyway - we don't track our time that way it is cumulative for the whole year and we self track so it's a totally different scenario. (My employment contract specifies a minimum number of hours I have to work for the year - hours per day/week vary by seasonal work load.)

    I've worked this way for 12 years so the idea that grown adults have employers that are so restrictive that they have to lie to get a day off seems kind of foreign to me. I took last Friday afternoon off just because I felt like it. Maybe the OP's work structure is more like mine.
  • SModa61SModa61 Member Posts: 1,836 Member Member Posts: 1,836 Member
    Yes the US Shingles vaccine is a 2 shot series and it is one of the tougher ones. Shingrix I believe. The pharmacy who gave me the shot even noted that was common. But for me the symptoms were 48 hrs max with both shots. The fever was also shorter than the 2nd Pfizer. I was really reluctant to take the 2nd one but I figured I was halfway there so I did. My arm got extremely sore overnight and about 24 hrs in (at work) I started chills and sweats (fever) so I went home. This was before covid protocols. I was fine the next day.

    @SModa61 I know you said you did not have a reaction but I recall you got very sick that day your husband went sailing. ???

    I had an immediate reaction to the 2nd vaccine. The EMT called it an anxiety reaction and physically my heart rate soared within a few minutes of the shot like someone had given me an adrenilin shot. If it had kept going I would have probably passed out in my car. I felt off for 2 days and had a fever at the 24 hr mark. Since I was working remote I did not take any official time off.

    @summerskier Your memory made me look up what I wrote you after my second shot. You are right I was not feeling great, but there was more to the story so that is likely why I don't remember it being much to be blamed on the vaccination, though I do believe it added to my "offness". In contrast, how crappy hubby felt had no other explanation than the vaccine.

    This is what I wrote a day or so after: "So me and vaccine day...... well we tried to make the most of the drive to key west by making a day of it. We started with a half day sail that was a gift from our kids for XXXXX's 60th birthday. Well I was sick within 15 minutes of setting sail. Just what I needed that day. They changed course and I eventually felt better, but better is still relative. We get off the boat and my stomach is now off AND I am hungry. But we head to CVS to see if they will take us early and they do, so we were vaccinated around 2:30 on Wednesday. By this point, I am feeling really crappy. I apparently had caffiene withdrawl kicking in on top of everything else. We head for an early dinner because I needed something to settle my stomach. I ordered nachos as the carb loaded option sounded appealing. Well out came a roughly 3 lb platter that could feed a group of football players. By the time I got home, I headed straight to bed. Thursday, i felt crappy. Low temp, continued upset stomach and body aches. Yesterday "I don't care" eating. argh. I hate seeing my bad behaviors creep back in and they have this entire past week. "
  • Theoldguy1Theoldguy1 Member Posts: 2,078 Member Member Posts: 2,078 Member
    hipari wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    hipari wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.

    Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.

    Yeah, nobody would ever think to use that as an excuse to take some time off work? I took a half day off as well mostly as a "just in case" and I was totally fine...and it was a Friday sooooo...

    How many of these people skipped some other fun activity? I bet it wasn't 1/3. I also wouldn't call a headache and fatigue for a day a particularly adverse reaction...which seems to be the most common complaint from people who've had some kind of issue after the vaccine.

    To be honest, I find it quite disrespectful of you and some others in this thread to imply that either I’m naively stupid or my coworkers are lazy liars who take advantage of the situation just to skip work. I have access to everyone’s hour logs, including comments, which clearly state the symptoms they had, and I know these people personally. You don’t. Many have also complained about ruined weekend or evening plans because of vaccine reactions. Don’t know why I’m mentioning this though, since you’ll probably assume they’re just saying that to cover their lies.

    Everything is, of course, possible, and workplaces and cultures are different. You just admitted to taking half a day off and starting your weekend early just because you had the convenient excuse of getting vaccinated. At a different job, I might do the same thing. My colleagues just tend to be motivated and committed enough to not do that, and I frequently see evening/weekend hours logged by someone catching up after an absence, even though nobody is expecting or requesting that. Workplaces here are legally required to give pregnant employees paid time off to attend maternity healthcare appointments. I could book them in the middle of the day and take 2-3 hours per appointment to get there, have the appointment and get back. Instead, I voluntarily book them either first thing in the morning or last thing in the afternoon to be efficient, and usually end up covering those hours some other day on the week of the appointment, because I care more about my job and getting everything done than maximising potential paid time off. Most of my colleagues share this mindset, even though nobody is expecting it or pressuring us in any way.

    On a different note, the neighboring city (where most of my friends live) opened vaccinations for my age group today - some of my friends booked their appointments at midnight and already received their first shot today. In my city the age group should open next week.

    In the last year, 40 percent of employees have called in sick to work when they were not actually sick, up from 35 percent in 2016, according to a new report from CareerBuilder. Women were more likely to take a sick day when they were well – 43 percent compared to 35 percent of men.

    https://www.bizjournals.com/bizwomen/news/latest-news/2017/11/more-staffers-calling-in-sick-even-if-theyre-not.html?page=all#:~:text=In the last year, 40 percent of employees have called,to 35 percent of men.

    This was from 2017, guessing it's more now.

    Now I work in a professional setting where we don't have a limit on sick time (unless it gets to stupid levels). We also don't have anyone doing our work while we are out sick for a few days. We're generally expected to meet due dates whether sick or not. So in our case not a lot calling in sick, you just chug along unless you're on death's door because you're not looking to be working 16 hour days to make up for time spent being sick. Other situations, like in the factory outside my office, lot more calling in sick.
    edited June 8
  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Member Posts: 7,557 Member Member Posts: 7,557 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Re: "Yeah, in my experience, that "use any excuse" thing is far from universal."

    Of course it's not universal. I haven't taken all (or even most of, or in some years more than a couple of days of) my vacation in forever and I never take sick days. But claiming no one games the system seems unrealistic. That said, I think many people planned time off in case of bad reactions (I know several people who planned time off in advance in case) and that doesn't say whether they had them or not (I do think plenty of people did have minor-ish bad reactions, including me, and I worked but didn't work out and I enjoy working out). But if I hadn't ended up having things I absolutely had to do on that Friday after, I would have taken it off.

    It's definitely not universal, but it most definitely happens. My organization consists of 135 people which is the smallest I've ever worked for. We strongly encouraged employees to take their sick time if they had it available on the days they received their shots just in case, and the vast majority did.

    We didn't have anywhere close to 1/3 or our organization call in after their shot saying that they weren't feeling well....that would have been about 44/45 people. As I recall, we've had about 10-12 that have said they didn't feel well enough to come to work...mostly headache and/or fatigue. I know of at least three that I would say it is about a 90% probability of being utter BS due to past history, but not enough there to actually do anything more than have them on a "watch close" list.

    I have to say though...I don't really understand the "martyrdom" of not using paid time off which is part of one's benefit package, especially if it's use it or lose it. I use mine...I try to keep a bank of 3 weeks vacation and 2 weeks of sick just incase something happens, but otherwise I have no qualms using a benefit that is part of my compensation package. We have a few people that rarely take any time off and it's easy to see that it wears them down...they would be better and more productive if they took some time off for themselves. I am impressed by people getting their stuff done, not necessarily by having a butt in a seat every single day.

    It's not "martyrdom" and it's not that specifically defined at my job. Basically if I bill the hours I should bill and am not unavailable when I need to be available, my job is pretty flexible. I tend to overvalue my importance, I'm sure, which is why some years I don't plan time off way in advance (I mean like a vacation) and then feel like the deadlines in various cases prevent me from finding a convenient time to do it. I had planned to go to England and Wales in 2020, but obviously things came up unrelated to my job.

    I don't take "sick" days (unless actually sick) since I have no specific number of sick days that are part of a benefit package (for staff they are just part of overall paid days off). I'm lucky, I know, including that I almost never get sick.

    I'm at a much smaller workplace than you, but it was similar when I was at a big firm too.

    And, yeah, I'd be better off if I took real vacation more often. At one point I did and then I had a run of years that were challenging and then covid when I had decided I was finally going to plan one sufficiently in advance to do it. And during covid in 2020 the general message I got was that obviously I wasn't going anywhere so why bother when you could be contributing (there was a lot of panic early on that covid would lead to financial problems, although that turned out fine after all).
    edited June 9
  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Member Posts: 7,557 Member Member Posts: 7,557 Member
    33gail33 wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    hipari wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    hipari wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    hipari wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.

    Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.

    Yeah, nobody would ever think to use that as an excuse to take some time off work? I took a half day off as well mostly as a "just in case" and I was totally fine...and it was a Friday sooooo...

    How many of these people skipped some other fun activity? I bet it wasn't 1/3. I also wouldn't call a headache and fatigue for a day a particularly adverse reaction...which seems to be the most common complaint from people who've had some kind of issue after the vaccine.

    To be honest, I find it quite disrespectful of you and some others in this thread to imply that either I’m naively stupid or my coworkers are lazy liars who take advantage of the situation just to skip work. I have access to everyone’s hour logs, including comments, which clearly state the symptoms they had, and I know these people personally. You don’t. Many have also complained about ruined weekend or evening plans because of vaccine reactions. Don’t know why I’m mentioning this though, since you’ll probably assume they’re just saying that to cover their lies.

    Everything is, of course, possible, and workplaces and cultures are different. You just admitted to taking half a day off and starting your weekend early just because you had the convenient excuse of getting vaccinated. At a different job, I might do the same thing. My colleagues just tend to be motivated and committed enough to not do that, and I frequently see evening/weekend hours logged by someone catching up after an absence, even though nobody is expecting or requesting that. Workplaces here are legally required to give pregnant employees paid time off to attend maternity healthcare appointments. I could book them in the middle of the day and take 2-3 hours per appointment to get there, have the appointment and get back. Instead, I voluntarily book them either first thing in the morning or last thing in the afternoon to be efficient, and usually end up covering those hours some other day on the week of the appointment, because I care more about my job and getting everything done than maximising potential paid time off. Most of my colleagues share this mindset, even though nobody is expecting it or pressuring us in any way.

    On a different note, the neighboring city (where most of my friends live) opened vaccinations for my age group today - some of my friends booked their appointments at midnight and already received their first shot today. In my city the age group should open next week.

    How high is that horse you're on? Don't fall now...

    If you think that being motivated by one’s job or defending coworkers when others suggest they’re lazy liars puts one on a high horse, then sure. My horse is high by your standards. If that’s really the case, I’m just going to bow out of this conversation so you can continue living in your world of unmotivated liars and making snide comments to strangers, I’d rather not be a part of that one. I came here to discuss covid and participate in the previous subject of how many people experience reactions to the vaccine, not to be called a unicorn or a high-horse-rider for being motivated by my job or defending and liking my coworkers, who incidentally are also motivated by their jobs. I have appreciated the various viewpoints and perspectives in this discussion, but these kinds of remarks make me want to stay in unicorn land. At least people are respectful there.

    Congratulations on making me cry, though. You must feel so much better about yourself.

    I'm very motivated by my job...I didn't get to being the CFO out of any lack of motivation or hard work. Talking about how you never take time off because you're just that hard of a worker is being on a high horse...as if people who use something that is a part of their benefits package aren't hard workers. That is literally the definition of "high horse". I proposed a scenario in which people could and do abuse the system...it's not some kind of remote possibility, it happens all the time...then you went off on how lazy I am or my employees are when I was simply putting out a very real world scenario.

    I wasn't implying that everyone out there games the system...most employees are good and I believe most people want to work and work hard, but people do game and/or milk the system all the time. I've never been in any workplace that it doesn't happen. In my current employ we have 135 people...is it realistic at all that every single one of those is just a model employee that would never resort to lying about being sick? I think that would be incredibly naïve. Previous to this I worked in a place with thousands...I don't think you'll find anywhere with thousands of employees who are all just perfect model employees. I didn't make the unicorn comment, but that's where it comes from. It's utterly unrealistic to think everyone is just perfect. Most are great, but there are plenty of bad apples too.

    I'm not really following the "game the system" thing.

    You seemed to be implying that people who booked time off but didn't have a reaction were somehow doing something wrong. But then you said you did exactly that? I'm really not following the point you are making tbh.

    Yeah, there's nothing wrong with booking time off in case one had a reaction. I am also confused. I didn't (since I work at home anyway and could have just done the things that needed to be done and pushed everything else off to the next day, which was a Saturday), but I definitely avoided scheduling a tough and adversarial meeting the next morning after a late afternoon shot since I didn't know how the vaccine would affect me.

    Also, at my office staff gets a certain number of paid days off (increasing with seniority), so taking a sick day would cut into that. (If someone had a medical issue, that would be something we would be flexible about, and we have maternity leave too, that is separate.) Lawyers generally get judged by hours they bill without having specific sick days or vacation (although there's going to be a common sense understanding, at least when we worked from the office). At the present, it's really not all that formal at all, as everyone is working from home. Booking time off would simply mean no one else in theory would ask you to do something (or you would tell people you were unavailable). I just think office environments are really different.

    That said, my anecdotal evidence from what I've heard from others re reactions is that it's not nearly 1/3 that would actually be so bad you call in sick, but I also didn't consider my own reaction (which was real) "call in sick" type. I was happy I'd planned a lighter day, and I do think many people just did that too (my second shot was scheduled 3 weeks after the first, so I knew when it would be).
    edited June 9
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