Coronavirus prep
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kshama2001 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I know shingles vaccine in US is different brand than we use in Australia - but I have given many shingles vaccines to people and nobody has reported much at all in way of side effects.
@paperpudding I would swear I have read people saying that their shingles vaccine reaction was worse than their COVID. I hope that your observations are the reality.paperpudding wrote: »I'm not sure how many people have said that.
It isn't my observation of patients here though ( we do use different brand to US,not sure if that matters)
Here in the US we use Shingrix, which has more reports of reaction than the now discontinued in the US Zostavax.
https://www.singlecare.com/blog/shingrix-vs-zostavax/Compared to Zostavax, Shingrix has been reported to cause more systemic reactions like headache, fever, muscle pain (myalgia), and fatigue.
I am scheduled to have my second Shingrix shot in July. I'm very curious about my reaction because while I got really sick after my first shot, some or all of that may have been due to the Anaplasmosis I was diagnosed with later that month.
@kshama2001 If you think of it, update me after your second shot. I have been debating that vaccine for a while because i am not sure I understand the risks to me if I don't take it. I have already had shingles at age 32, and then gave my son the chicken pox who gave it to his whole kindergarten class as well as his baby sister.5 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Re: "Yeah, in my experience, that "use any excuse" thing is far from universal."
Of course it's not universal. I haven't taken all (or even most of, or in some years more than a couple of days of) my vacation in forever and I never take sick days. But claiming no one games the system seems unrealistic. That said, I think many people planned time off in case of bad reactions (I know several people who planned time off in advance in case) and that doesn't say whether they had them or not (I do think plenty of people did have minor-ish bad reactions, including me, and I worked but didn't work out and I enjoy working out). But if I hadn't ended up having things I absolutely had to do on that Friday after, I would have taken it off.
It's definitely not universal, but it most definitely happens. My organization consists of 135 people which is the smallest I've ever worked for. We strongly encouraged employees to take their sick time if they had it available on the days they received their shots just in case, and the vast majority did.
We didn't have anywhere close to 1/3 or our organization call in after their shot saying that they weren't feeling well....that would have been about 44/45 people. As I recall, we've had about 10-12 that have said they didn't feel well enough to come to work...mostly headache and/or fatigue. I know of at least three that I would say it is about a 90% probability of being utter BS due to past history, but not enough there to actually do anything more than have them on a "watch close" list.
I have to say though...I don't really understand the "martyrdom" of not using paid time off which is part of one's benefit package, especially if it's use it or lose it. I use mine...I try to keep a bank of 3 weeks vacation and 2 weeks of sick just incase something happens, but otherwise I have no qualms using a benefit that is part of my compensation package. We have a few people that rarely take any time off and it's easy to see that it wears them down...they would be better and more productive if they took some time off for themselves. I am impressed by people getting their stuff done, not necessarily by having a butt in a seat every single day.
It's not "martyrdom" and it's not that specifically defined at my job. Basically if I bill the hours I should bill and am not unavailable when I need to be available, my job is pretty flexible. I tend to overvalue my importance, I'm sure, which is why some years I don't plan time off way in advance (I mean like a vacation) and then feel like the deadlines in various cases prevent me from finding a convenient time to do it. I had planned to go to England and Wales in 2020, but obviously things came up unrelated to my job.
I don't take "sick" days (unless actually sick) since I have no specific number of sick days that are part of a benefit package (for staff they are just part of overall paid days off). I'm lucky, I know, including that I almost never get sick.
I'm at a much smaller workplace than you, but it was similar when I was at a big firm too.
And, yeah, I'd be better off if I took real vacation more often. At one point I did and then I had a run of years that were challenging and then covid when I had decided I was finally going to plan one sufficiently in advance to do it. And during covid in 2020 the general message I got was that obviously I wasn't going anywhere so why bother when you could be contributing (there was a lot of panic early on that covid would lead to financial problems, although that turned out fine after all).1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.
Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.
Yeah, nobody would ever think to use that as an excuse to take some time off work? I took a half day off as well mostly as a "just in case" and I was totally fine...and it was a Friday sooooo...
How many of these people skipped some other fun activity? I bet it wasn't 1/3. I also wouldn't call a headache and fatigue for a day a particularly adverse reaction...which seems to be the most common complaint from people who've had some kind of issue after the vaccine.
To be honest, I find it quite disrespectful of you and some others in this thread to imply that either I’m naively stupid or my coworkers are lazy liars who take advantage of the situation just to skip work. I have access to everyone’s hour logs, including comments, which clearly state the symptoms they had, and I know these people personally. You don’t. Many have also complained about ruined weekend or evening plans because of vaccine reactions. Don’t know why I’m mentioning this though, since you’ll probably assume they’re just saying that to cover their lies.
Everything is, of course, possible, and workplaces and cultures are different. You just admitted to taking half a day off and starting your weekend early just because you had the convenient excuse of getting vaccinated. At a different job, I might do the same thing. My colleagues just tend to be motivated and committed enough to not do that, and I frequently see evening/weekend hours logged by someone catching up after an absence, even though nobody is expecting or requesting that. Workplaces here are legally required to give pregnant employees paid time off to attend maternity healthcare appointments. I could book them in the middle of the day and take 2-3 hours per appointment to get there, have the appointment and get back. Instead, I voluntarily book them either first thing in the morning or last thing in the afternoon to be efficient, and usually end up covering those hours some other day on the week of the appointment, because I care more about my job and getting everything done than maximising potential paid time off. Most of my colleagues share this mindset, even though nobody is expecting it or pressuring us in any way.
On a different note, the neighboring city (where most of my friends live) opened vaccinations for my age group today - some of my friends booked their appointments at midnight and already received their first shot today. In my city the age group should open next week.
How high is that horse you're on? Don't fall now...
If you think that being motivated by one’s job or defending coworkers when others suggest they’re lazy liars puts one on a high horse, then sure. My horse is high by your standards. If that’s really the case, I’m just going to bow out of this conversation so you can continue living in your world of unmotivated liars and making snide comments to strangers, I’d rather not be a part of that one. I came here to discuss covid and participate in the previous subject of how many people experience reactions to the vaccine, not to be called a unicorn or a high-horse-rider for being motivated by my job or defending and liking my coworkers, who incidentally are also motivated by their jobs. I have appreciated the various viewpoints and perspectives in this discussion, but these kinds of remarks make me want to stay in unicorn land. At least people are respectful there.
Congratulations on making me cry, though. You must feel so much better about yourself.
I'm very motivated by my job...I didn't get to being the CFO out of any lack of motivation or hard work. Talking about how you never take time off because you're just that hard of a worker is being on a high horse...as if people who use something that is a part of their benefits package aren't hard workers. That is literally the definition of "high horse". I proposed a scenario in which people could and do abuse the system...it's not some kind of remote possibility, it happens all the time...then you went off on how lazy I am or my employees are when I was simply putting out a very real world scenario.
I wasn't implying that everyone out there games the system...most employees are good and I believe most people want to work and work hard, but people do game and/or milk the system all the time. I've never been in any workplace that it doesn't happen. In my current employ we have 135 people...is it realistic at all that every single one of those is just a model employee that would never resort to lying about being sick? I think that would be incredibly naïve. Previous to this I worked in a place with thousands...I don't think you'll find anywhere with thousands of employees who are all just perfect model employees. I didn't make the unicorn comment, but that's where it comes from. It's utterly unrealistic to think everyone is just perfect. Most are great, but there are plenty of bad apples too.
I'm not really following the "game the system" thing.
You seemed to be implying that people who booked time off but didn't have a reaction were somehow doing something wrong. But then you said you did exactly that? I'm really not following the point you are making tbh.
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with booking time off in case one had a reaction. I am also confused. I didn't (since I work at home anyway and could have just done the things that needed to be done and pushed everything else off to the next day, which was a Saturday), but I definitely avoided scheduling a tough and adversarial meeting the next morning after a late afternoon shot since I didn't know how the vaccine would affect me.
Also, at my office staff gets a certain number of paid days off (increasing with seniority), so taking a sick day would cut into that. (If someone had a medical issue, that would be something we would be flexible about, and we have maternity leave too, that is separate.) Lawyers generally get judged by hours they bill without having specific sick days or vacation (although there's going to be a common sense understanding, at least when we worked from the office). At the present, it's really not all that formal at all, as everyone is working from home. Booking time off would simply mean no one else in theory would ask you to do something (or you would tell people you were unavailable). I just think office environments are really different.
That said, my anecdotal evidence from what I've heard from others re reactions is that it's not nearly 1/3 that would actually be so bad you call in sick, but I also didn't consider my own reaction (which was real) "call in sick" type. I was happy I'd planned a lighter day, and I do think many people just did that too (my second shot was scheduled 3 weeks after the first, so I knew when it would be).2 -
I'm at an age where I should get the shingles vaccine too, and I'm more intimidated to get it than the covid one (which I was excited and happy to get), and also don't feel the "do this for public health and so this nightmare can finally be over" pressure to do it ASAP. Also curious about how it goes, kshama. I really don't want shingles, granted!5
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I was on a waiting list for Shingrix pre-pandemic, never ended up with an appointment and didn't press it because of the pandemic. It was in short supply here. Just need to schedule it, having recently found someplace that has it.
I've had shingles once, in my 40s, possibly twice - mild. Reportedly, it's more likely to be more severe as one gets older, and it can recur multiple times. Two of the toughest women I know (mom & cousin) were laid low by it, when around the age I am now. I expect I may have an unpleasant reaction to Shingrix, but there's no possible way the reaction could be worse than what those two women went through, unless I'm a vanishingly rare case of (near-)fatal vax reaction.
While there's maybe not quite as strong a case for avoiding shingles as for avoiding Covid, there's a strong case. Let alone the routine occurrence of pretty severe long term nerve pain (15-20% of cases), worse can happen. Ocular shingles, for example, is a possibility, with serious vision damage, even blindness, as a result. In rare cases, it can cause encephalitis, hearing loss, even death.
The likelihood of a few flu-y days seems minor in comparison, to me.
Not that this has anything to do with Covid. 😆7 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Re: "Yeah, in my experience, that "use any excuse" thing is far from universal."
Of course it's not universal. I haven't taken all (or even most of, or in some years more than a couple of days of) my vacation in forever and I never take sick days. But claiming no one games the system seems unrealistic. That said, I think many people planned time off in case of bad reactions (I know several people who planned time off in advance in case) and that doesn't say whether they had them or not (I do think plenty of people did have minor-ish bad reactions, including me, and I worked but didn't work out and I enjoy working out). But if I hadn't ended up having things I absolutely had to do on that Friday after, I would have taken it off.
It's definitely not universal, but it most definitely happens. My organization consists of 135 people which is the smallest I've ever worked for. We strongly encouraged employees to take their sick time if they had it available on the days they received their shots just in case, and the vast majority did.
We didn't have anywhere close to 1/3 or our organization call in after their shot saying that they weren't feeling well....that would have been about 44/45 people. As I recall, we've had about 10-12 that have said they didn't feel well enough to come to work...mostly headache and/or fatigue. I know of at least three that I would say it is about a 90% probability of being utter BS due to past history, but not enough there to actually do anything more than have them on a "watch close" list.
I have to say though...I don't really understand the "martyrdom" of not using paid time off which is part of one's benefit package, especially if it's use it or lose it. I use mine...I try to keep a bank of 3 weeks vacation and 2 weeks of sick just incase something happens, but otherwise I have no qualms using a benefit that is part of my compensation package. We have a few people that rarely take any time off and it's easy to see that it wears them down...they would be better and more productive if they took some time off for themselves. I am impressed by people getting their stuff done, not necessarily by having a butt in a seat every single day.
I don't understand this. Why would you expect people to call in and report on what their reaction was when the "vast majority" already scheduled sick leave "just in case" because your organization "strongly" encouraged them to? If I've scheduled sick leave ahead of time, whether it be for a medical appointment or to take care of a family member's health needs (acceptable use of sick leave at my organization), it would never cross my mind that I needed to call in and report any symptoms I might end up experiencing that day.
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I had the Shingrix #1 in Nov & #2 in Jan & I don't remember any reaction other than a sore arm.7
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I think adverse reactions are relatively rare. Everyone I know personally is fully vaccinated and not a single one of them had anything more than a sore arm like they would with any other shot.
Judging by work hour logging at my workplace, roughly a third of all vaccinated employees have taken some sick leave (either partial day or a full day) after their vaccination. Based on that, I don’t think it’s ”rare”.
Yeah, nobody would ever think to use that as an excuse to take some time off work? I took a half day off as well mostly as a "just in case" and I was totally fine...and it was a Friday sooooo...
How many of these people skipped some other fun activity? I bet it wasn't 1/3. I also wouldn't call a headache and fatigue for a day a particularly adverse reaction...which seems to be the most common complaint from people who've had some kind of issue after the vaccine.
To be honest, I find it quite disrespectful of you and some others in this thread to imply that either I’m naively stupid or my coworkers are lazy liars who take advantage of the situation just to skip work. I have access to everyone’s hour logs, including comments, which clearly state the symptoms they had, and I know these people personally. You don’t. Many have also complained about ruined weekend or evening plans because of vaccine reactions. Don’t know why I’m mentioning this though, since you’ll probably assume they’re just saying that to cover their lies.
Everything is, of course, possible, and workplaces and cultures are different. You just admitted to taking half a day off and starting your weekend early just because you had the convenient excuse of getting vaccinated. At a different job, I might do the same thing. My colleagues just tend to be motivated and committed enough to not do that, and I frequently see evening/weekend hours logged by someone catching up after an absence, even though nobody is expecting or requesting that. Workplaces here are legally required to give pregnant employees paid time off to attend maternity healthcare appointments. I could book them in the middle of the day and take 2-3 hours per appointment to get there, have the appointment and get back. Instead, I voluntarily book them either first thing in the morning or last thing in the afternoon to be efficient, and usually end up covering those hours some other day on the week of the appointment, because I care more about my job and getting everything done than maximising potential paid time off. Most of my colleagues share this mindset, even though nobody is expecting it or pressuring us in any way.
On a different note, the neighboring city (where most of my friends live) opened vaccinations for my age group today - some of my friends booked their appointments at midnight and already received their first shot today. In my city the age group should open next week.
In the last year, 40 percent of employees have called in sick to work when they were not actually sick, up from 35 percent in 2016, according to a new report from CareerBuilder. Women were more likely to take a sick day when they were well – 43 percent compared to 35 percent of men.
https://www.bizjournals.com/bizwomen/news/latest-news/2017/11/more-staffers-calling-in-sick-even-if-theyre-not.html?page=all#:~:text=In the last year, 40 percent of employees have called,to 35 percent of men.
This was from 2017, guessing it's more now.
Now I work in a professional setting where we don't have a limit on sick time (unless it gets to stupid levels). We also don't have anyone doing our work while we are out sick for a few days. We're generally expected to meet due dates whether sick or not. So in our case not a lot calling in sick, you just chug along unless you're on death's door because you're not looking to be working 16 hour days to make up for time spent being sick. Other situations, like in the factory outside my office, lot more calling in sick.
From the article you cite:
More than half of respondents work for companies that offer paid time off, but 28 percent of employees said they feel the need to make up an excuse to take a day off.
That sounds to me like companies have created a culture that discourages or penalizes employees who want to take the vacation time they've earned, so they have to claim to be sick and use sick time instead. But, yeah, it's the employees who are the bad actors.8 -
kshama2001 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I know shingles vaccine in US is different brand than we use in Australia - but I have given many shingles vaccines to people and nobody has reported much at all in way of side effects.
@paperpudding I would swear I have read people saying that their shingles vaccine reaction was worse than their COVID. I hope that your observations are the reality.paperpudding wrote: »I'm not sure how many people have said that.
It isn't my observation of patients here though ( we do use different brand to US,not sure if that matters)
Here in the US we use Shingrix, which has more reports of reaction than the now discontinued in the US Zostavax.
https://www.singlecare.com/blog/shingrix-vs-zostavax/Compared to Zostavax, Shingrix has been reported to cause more systemic reactions like headache, fever, muscle pain (myalgia), and fatigue.
I am scheduled to have my second Shingrix shot in July. I'm very curious about my reaction because while I got really sick after my first shot, some or all of that may have been due to the Anaplasmosis I was diagnosed with later that month.
@kshama2001 If you think of it, update me after your second shot. I have been debating that vaccine for a while because i am not sure I understand the risks to me if I don't take it. I have already had shingles at age 32, and then gave my son the chicken pox who gave it to his whole kindergarten class as well as his baby sister.
You can get shingles more than once. And now your son and his whole kindergarten class and his baby sister can get it when they grow up.6 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »No, I'm talking about people getting a shot and later calling in saying they aren't well when in fact they are fine but the excuse is convenient and believable vs say...calling in sick the day after the superbowl. Gaming maybe not the right word...milking it may be a better term. People who took time off just in case were pre-approved for their vaccination day and that's fine. I'm talking about the one's who call in the next day or two. Most definitely some of those are valid, but some people also milk the system when they can.
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I've been in executive management for 17 years and I've seen all manner of these kinds of things going on. Again, most people are good...some people aren't. I haven't seen that level of call in at my office for any kind of adverse reaction, so to me, 1/3 of an organization sounds like a whole lot of people, particularly when none of my family and friends have really had anything, and only a handful at my office called in later for a headache or fatigue. Just from my own experience, 1/3 of a organization coming down with symptoms needing to stay at home sick from the vaccine seems like a lot and it would make me skeptical...but again, I've seen a lot of nonsense in 17 years.
OK, it seems our jobs share some similarities, and some major differences to cause such different perspectives. I’m in executive management as well, and work in a much smaller environment so the sample size is different and I’m personally involved in all aspects of HR and wellbeing of our staff. A major part of my job is knowing our employees and their patterns, taking care of their wellbeing (including defending them when someone makes unfair claims or the company tries to do something that would negatively affect them) and making sure everyone takes enough time off. These things and work hours are tracked, not because we don’t trust our employees or want to track everything they do, but because changes in those patterns or not taking time off are usually indications of something negative that needs to be taken care of so that person’s wellbeing or motivation isn’t negatively affected. It’s the personal familiarity with these people and knowing their patterns (who takes sick leave more often/easier than others etc.) that makes me believe them. The sample size is small, with 30ish employees, out of whom roughly 20 were age-eligible for the vaccine at the start of this discussion (my city doesn’t start 30-34 until next week).
Our paid time off system seems very different as well - we’re based in Finland and have basically unlimited sick leave and 5 weeks of paid vacation per year. Anyone can take up to 3 days of sick time per sickness by simply calling in, and longer sick leaves need a doctor’s note from company healthcare that can be accessed in all of their locations around the country or online via chat/video appointments (how soon you need the doctor’s note depends on employer). Since sick leave is unlimited, every single day is a potential sick day, yet people rarely call in sick. Taking care of a sick child who’s younger than 10 years old is also paid time off. Considering all this, we have remarkably little sick leave and most of it is about caring for sick children or taking one day off at the height of one’s flu symptoms, when in a different job you’d take three. If someone works overtime, that overtime gets accumulated and people can take equal time off as paid. Those accumulated hours can be used freely for shorter days (like leaving early on Friday), full days off are pre-agreed. My most frequent discussions with staff revolve around things like when they are taking vacation, do they already have a plan for those accumulated overtime hours, and that they should rest and not work when being sick even though working from home is sitting on your couch/desk with your laptop. Last month there was a bank holiday on a Thursday, so I encouraged most of our staff to take the Friday off to burn those accumulated hours in an efficient way, so they can have a relaxing 4-day weekend and a longer summer or Christmas vacation to rest and relax. Saying I, or my colleagues, don’t take time off or that we’d take pride/martyrdom in that is a far cry from reality and a false assumption.
I’ve seen different workplaces and environments where calling in sick is much more frequent, partially due to culture and lack of motivation, partially because the demands of the job are different. I used to work at a fish and deli counter in a supermarket and that job was very physical, made me an infection risk if I was sick, and couldn’t be done remotely. The culture there was also a lot less motivating, so the combination of culture and work demands made me a lot closer to the example of a McBurger-flipping teen calling in sick when they didn’t feel like working or had minor symptoms they could have worked through. My current job has been in a office-remote hybrid since the company was founded and everyone does their jobs on a computer, so it’s a lot easier to stay home and focus on easier tasks when one has mild symptoms, or do a shorter day and dip into accumulated overtime or take a few hours of sick leave.
I have never claimed that everyone everywhere is a good person never milking the system. I was defending my staff and, yes, getting upset when it was implied that these particular people were dishonest or milking the system or that I live in naive unicorn land for believing in these people I know personally. Does that type of dishonesty/milking the system happen someplace else? Probably. Is it fair to assume that the sample I provided to add to discussion is false? I don’t think so.7 -
Wow, I'm a little bit baffled - and wiser - reading different approaches to sick days. In Belgium (closer to the rules in Finland apparently), it is very clear: you get x days of paid holidays (the legal minimum is 20 per year for a full time, most companies agree on more) and that's it. Those are for relaxing under the sun!
If you are sick to the point you can't work, you need to see a doctor and he/she will determine how much time you will be off work. A formal note is written and you have to hand this over to your employer on the first day of illness, whether it is for one day (the 'sneezing with a bit of fever or sprained ankle and can't drive' kind of sickness), for three days, or for a few months alike. Very exceptionally, you can stay one day off work without a doctor's note, but that is - I think - one day a year and you will be on HR's radar if you do that.
As for the covid vaccines: you will get time off to have the shot (you only need to report it to your manager) and if you have symptoms severe enough to prevent you from working, the same rule applies: see a doctor, which is the most sensible option imo.
@hipari : I work in the same kind of environment as you do and I get it that you wanted to advocate for your staff and for yourself. I do believe it is a difference in culture and the nature of the job, indeed (although I know some very motivated McDo burger flippers, who follow in-company courses to advance in their careers
). 6 -
@Antiopelle we seem to have similar rules and cultures. The doctor's note system for sick leaves that you described is a baseline, but many workplaces especially in office jobs waive that for first 3 days of sickness. My supermarket job required the note from day one, but it was enough to turn the note in upon your return to work.
When covid started last year, healthcare providers and officials alike encouraged employers to start waiving the doctor's requirement and/or extending the 3-day rule because there was a large concern that we wouldn't have enough doctors and they have more important things to do than write notes for someone who only needs medical care for that note and could easily take a nap and buy cough drops without seeing a doctor first. We currently go on a case-by-case if someone needs more than 3 days, but my hard rule is that you need to bring in a note if it's more than 2 weeks. Not because I don't trust people, but because after 2 weeks the social security office starts covering sick leave salaries and the doctor's note is required when filing for the payment.4 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I know shingles vaccine in US is different brand than we use in Australia - but I have given many shingles vaccines to people and nobody has reported much at all in way of side effects.
@paperpudding I would swear I have read people saying that their shingles vaccine reaction was worse than their COVID. I hope that your observations are the reality.paperpudding wrote: »I'm not sure how many people have said that.
It isn't my observation of patients here though ( we do use different brand to US,not sure if that matters)
Here in the US we use Shingrix, which has more reports of reaction than the now discontinued in the US Zostavax.
https://www.singlecare.com/blog/shingrix-vs-zostavax/Compared to Zostavax, Shingrix has been reported to cause more systemic reactions like headache, fever, muscle pain (myalgia), and fatigue.
I am scheduled to have my second Shingrix shot in July. I'm very curious about my reaction because while I got really sick after my first shot, some or all of that may have been due to the Anaplasmosis I was diagnosed with later that month.
@kshama2001 If you think of it, update me after your second shot. I have been debating that vaccine for a while because i am not sure I understand the risks to me if I don't take it. I have already had shingles at age 32, and then gave my son the chicken pox who gave it to his whole kindergarten class as well as his baby sister.
You can get shingles more than once. And now your son and his whole kindergarten class and his baby sister can get it when they grow up.
I am hoping that I am misinterpreting your words, but it feels like you are stating I did something wrong at the time that then jeopardized others. I was 32. It was 1993. There was no shingles or chicken pox vaccines available at that time and certainly would not have been given to a 32 year old if it had been developed. That was just the reality of the times. My life was also such that I never was able to see a doctor for my mysterious condition. The shingles was diagnosed due to my son developing the chicken pox. By then, his classmates and sister were exposed as well. Unfortunate all around.
@annpt77 Thanks for those details. I had forgotten about the nerve pain. I did have it for at least 10 years after and that pain was disturbing during those years. The shingles had only manifested in my left breast. Over the following years the pain would pop up randomly and would get my imagination going with concerns like breast cancer and such. I had forgotten about that until your comment since that after effect has been gone for years. I am sorry for what your friends went through. Sounds like I do need to get moving on starting the Shingles vaccination protocol.8 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »It's getting pretty hot again in Tucson. I ate out around 10 days ago inside for the first time since the Pandemic (I'm fully vaccinated). I was completely opposed to eating inside during the pandemic being unvaxed.
Well, this past weekend, for the entire weekend, I felt like I was fighting off a flu. No fever, but close to it, with a headache all weekend. Also felt seriously drained. Earlier in the week, I also had pink eye like symptoms in my left eye for two days and some diarrhea.
Once Monday hit, I was fine. Felt great. I'm convinced that if I hadn't been vaccinated, I would been pretty sick. Also makes me feel really grateful that we ate outside all of last year, no matter how brutally hot it was. That's the only time I could have possibly gotten anything because I'm masked all the time.
Mike, do you think that you had a mild case of COVID due to eating inside a restaurant? How crowded was the place, and what about ventilation?
I live in the southern CA desert and our temps are getting very high already. We had between 105F to 109F last week, including the weekend, and the same for this coming weekend. My husband and I (fully vaccinated since the end of February), had lunch inside Panera about two weeks ago because the outdoor tables were not very shaded. We had no problem because the place was not crowded (lots of people doing take out), and the tables were very much apart. Masks were worn by everybody. That was the first time that we ate indoors since February 2020.
This past Sunday we went to another restaurant and we managed to find an outdoor table placed under an umbrella. However, we felt that it was getting hot even in the shade and we ate pretty fast. I don't think that as the temps stay in the upper 100s we will be able to eat outdoors again, and since on 6/15 California will probably make masks "recommended," and social distance not so stringent, we are concerned about spending time in a restaurant or any indoor facility without masks. We had the same problem last year, and I hate to cook
I might be wrong, but until most that aren't vaxxed end up getting Covid-19, we're in a dangerous time right now. Not for you or me, because the vaccine should prevent us from getting really sick, but it's definitely out there.
Plus, the varients are much more contagious and airborne. So, though I don't think I had full blown Covid, yes, I certainly think I was exposed by spending time indoors again.
Even though that is the case, I'll still likely eat inside this Summer. Last Summer was miserable. 107 in the sun, on a patio in AZ, is just no fun. This weekend is supposed to be 110. Hell no I'm not eating outside on Saturday night. We are going tonight to watch a band and eat outside and the restaurant doesn't take reservations. It is supposed to be 97 or so tonight, so that's not too terrible. I just think you have to be vigilant and rest when necessary and sleep more or take it easy. Just because you have exposure doesn't mean you have full blown Covid. I never ran a fever, but I workout like a fool and, with being Celiac, really watch what I eat too. I know when something is off. And I definitely had something off for like 3 days. But, my body fought it off really well and I felt great again on the fourth day (thanks to the vaccine).
Even though sites like Worldometer aren't reporting any longer, AZ had 500 new cases and 14 deaths this week. Also believe we are seeing way underreported cases now. Those that are too stubborn to get the vaccine sure as hell aren't going to go get tested.
If there's any good news, it's that most that haven't been vaxxed and haven't had Covid-19 will likely soon get it and then have some sort of immunity as well, if they don't end up in the ICU.
What people don't understand about our climate is, this is entering our flu season. We spend more time indoors in the Summer than in the Winter. It's why AZ spiked first last year and, at one point, led the world in Covid-19 cases per capita.7 -
Antiopelle wrote: »Wow, I'm a little bit baffled - and wiser - reading different approaches to sick days. In Belgium (closer to the rules in Finland apparently), it is very clear: you get x days of paid holidays (the legal minimum is 20 per year for a full time, most companies agree on more) and that's it. Those are for relaxing under the sun!
If you are sick to the point you can't work, you need to see a doctor and he/she will determine how much time you will be off work. A formal note is written and you have to hand this over to your employer on the first day of illness, whether it is for one day (the 'sneezing with a bit of fever or sprained ankle and can't drive' kind of sickness), for three days, or for a few months alike. Very exceptionally, you can stay one day off work without a doctor's note, but that is - I think - one day a year and you will be on HR's radar if you do that.
As for the covid vaccines: you will get time off to have the shot (you only need to report it to your manager) and if you have symptoms severe enough to prevent you from working, the same rule applies: see a doctor, which is the most sensible option imo.
@hipari : I work in the same kind of environment as you do and I get it that you wanted to advocate for your staff and for yourself. I do believe it is a difference in culture and the nature of the job, indeed (although I know some very motivated McDo burger flippers, who follow in-company courses to advance in their careers ).
Wow, this seems like it would be a huge waste of medical resources to have to go to a doctor for a single day off. not to mention, if someone is off feeling like **** the last thing they probably feel like doing is sitting around a doctor's office for half a day trying to get a note. I'm in Canada and at my employer and any I've heard of, if you are off more than 3 in a row you need a note which seems reasonable (not sure if that is a Canada thing or if it varies by employer).
I'm fortunate that where I work we are allowed 120 sick days per year - yes - 120. I remember when I first got the job many, many years ago telling my parents about it and they literally did not believe me. I had to show them in writing and they just shook their heads. And yes, some people have taken every single one of those (but most people average less than 10).11 -
Muscleflex79 wrote: »Antiopelle wrote: »Wow, I'm a little bit baffled - and wiser - reading different approaches to sick days. In Belgium (closer to the rules in Finland apparently), it is very clear: you get x days of paid holidays (the legal minimum is 20 per year for a full time, most companies agree on more) and that's it. Those are for relaxing under the sun!
If you are sick to the point you can't work, you need to see a doctor and he/she will determine how much time you will be off work. A formal note is written and you have to hand this over to your employer on the first day of illness, whether it is for one day (the 'sneezing with a bit of fever or sprained ankle and can't drive' kind of sickness), for three days, or for a few months alike. Very exceptionally, you can stay one day off work without a doctor's note, but that is - I think - one day a year and you will be on HR's radar if you do that.
As for the covid vaccines: you will get time off to have the shot (you only need to report it to your manager) and if you have symptoms severe enough to prevent you from working, the same rule applies: see a doctor, which is the most sensible option imo.
@hipari : I work in the same kind of environment as you do and I get it that you wanted to advocate for your staff and for yourself. I do believe it is a difference in culture and the nature of the job, indeed (although I know some very motivated McDo burger flippers, who follow in-company courses to advance in their careers ).
Wow, this seems like it would be a huge waste of medical resources to have to go to a doctor for a single day off. not to mention, if someone is off feeling like **** the last thing they probably feel like doing is sitting around a doctor's office for half a day trying to get a note.
This is my reaction too. Most people who are sick to the point they can't go to work/shouldn't go to work bc they might be contagious don't necessarily need to go to the doctor. I can't imagine having to provide my employer with a note.
Where I work, sick days aren't really an issue, people don't abuse it, and generally speaking I don't think most adults get sick that often such that it would be an issue absent a chronic or serious type illness (that they may or may not want to talk to their employer about). How much paid leave they are required to get for that sort of thing is lower here, but many employers are going to be understanding/more lenient than the law requires, obviously.
Re taking a day off by calling in sick, I think it's not uncommon for people to have to schedule a day off some set period in advance, officially, if it's vacation and not sick time, so I've heard of people calling in when they knew it wouldn't actually be a bad time for anyone else and bc they just felt they needed a day off or had something they needed to take care of come up. I'm lucky enough that if something like that comes up (emergency plumbing work needed, for example), I can just work from home and always could have, if there weren't something I needed to be there for at work (which of course there is at times), and I think for many of us that will be much more the case post covid than it was before.6 -
Muscleflex79 wrote: »Antiopelle wrote: »Wow, I'm a little bit baffled - and wiser - reading different approaches to sick days. In Belgium (closer to the rules in Finland apparently), it is very clear: you get x days of paid holidays (the legal minimum is 20 per year for a full time, most companies agree on more) and that's it. Those are for relaxing under the sun!
If you are sick to the point you can't work, you need to see a doctor and he/she will determine how much time you will be off work. A formal note is written and you have to hand this over to your employer on the first day of illness, whether it is for one day (the 'sneezing with a bit of fever or sprained ankle and can't drive' kind of sickness), for three days, or for a few months alike. Very exceptionally, you can stay one day off work without a doctor's note, but that is - I think - one day a year and you will be on HR's radar if you do that.
As for the covid vaccines: you will get time off to have the shot (you only need to report it to your manager) and if you have symptoms severe enough to prevent you from working, the same rule applies: see a doctor, which is the most sensible option imo.
@hipari : I work in the same kind of environment as you do and I get it that you wanted to advocate for your staff and for yourself. I do believe it is a difference in culture and the nature of the job, indeed (although I know some very motivated McDo burger flippers, who follow in-company courses to advance in their careers ).
Wow, this seems like it would be a huge waste of medical resources to have to go to a doctor for a single day off. not to mention, if someone is off feeling like **** the last thing they probably feel like doing is sitting around a doctor's office for half a day trying to get a note.
This is my reaction too. Most people who are sick to the point they can't go to work/shouldn't go to work bc they might be contagious don't necessarily need to go to the doctor. I can't imagine having to provide my employer with a note.
Where I work, sick days aren't really an issue, people don't abuse it, and generally speaking I don't think most adults get sick that often such that it would be an issue absent a chronic or serious type illness (that they may or may not want to talk to their employer about). How much paid leave they are required to get for that sort of thing is lower here, but many employers are going to be understanding/more lenient than the law requires, obviously.
Re taking a day off by calling in sick, I think it's not uncommon for people to have to schedule a day off some set period in advance, officially, if it's vacation and not sick time, so I've heard of people calling in when they knew it wouldn't actually be a bad time for anyone else and bc they just felt they needed a day off or had something they needed to take care of come up. I'm lucky enough that if something like that comes up (emergency plumbing work needed, for example), I can just work from home and always could have, if there weren't something I needed to be there for at work (which of course there is at times), and I think for many of us that will be much more the case post covid than it was before.
Same - I have never had to provide a sick note. Mind you we only "technically" have 3 sick days, but in reality we can take whatever we need. I was off for a week with labrynthitis last year, my coworker was off for 2 weeks for surgery, we don't have to provide a note. I remember asking about it when I first started there and had the flu for a few days or something, and they basically scoffed and said it wasn't needed.
While I can see it being required for 3+ days, having to get a sick note if you are off for one day with a migraine or intestinal upset seems like a huge waste of time and resources.4 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I know shingles vaccine in US is different brand than we use in Australia - but I have given many shingles vaccines to people and nobody has reported much at all in way of side effects.
@paperpudding I would swear I have read people saying that their shingles vaccine reaction was worse than their COVID. I hope that your observations are the reality.paperpudding wrote: »I'm not sure how many people have said that.
It isn't my observation of patients here though ( we do use different brand to US,not sure if that matters)
Here in the US we use Shingrix, which has more reports of reaction than the now discontinued in the US Zostavax.
https://www.singlecare.com/blog/shingrix-vs-zostavax/Compared to Zostavax, Shingrix has been reported to cause more systemic reactions like headache, fever, muscle pain (myalgia), and fatigue.
I am scheduled to have my second Shingrix shot in July. I'm very curious about my reaction because while I got really sick after my first shot, some or all of that may have been due to the Anaplasmosis I was diagnosed with later that month.
@kshama2001 If you think of it, update me after your second shot. I have been debating that vaccine for a while because i am not sure I understand the risks to me if I don't take it. I have already had shingles at age 32, and then gave my son the chicken pox who gave it to his whole kindergarten class as well as his baby sister.
You can get shingles more than once. And now your son and his whole kindergarten class and his baby sister can get it when they grow up.
I am hoping that I am misinterpreting your words, but it feels like you are stating I did something wrong at the time that then jeopardized others. I was 32. It was 1993. There was no shingles or chicken pox vaccines available at that time and certainly would not have been given to a 32 year old if it had been developed. That was just the reality of the times. My life was also such that I never was able to see a doctor for my mysterious condition. The shingles was diagnosed due to my son developing the chicken pox. By then, his classmates and sister were exposed as well. Unfortunate all around.
Yeah I read that the same way - a bit harsh. But my family is in the same situation. I didn't have shingles, but all my kids had chicken pox before the vaccine was available, so they are at risk for shingles as well.
And when one kid gets chicken pox it spreads like crazy, there is nothing you can do about it. My son brought it home from his kindergarten class, and two weeks to the day later his younger brother and sister both had it. It was just the reality of what happened before the vaccine became available.7 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Re: "Yeah, in my experience, that "use any excuse" thing is far from universal."
Of course it's not universal. I haven't taken all (or even most of, or in some years more than a couple of days of) my vacation in forever and I never take sick days. But claiming no one games the system seems unrealistic. That said, I think many people planned time off in case of bad reactions (I know several people who planned time off in advance in case) and that doesn't say whether they had them or not (I do think plenty of people did have minor-ish bad reactions, including me, and I worked but didn't work out and I enjoy working out). But if I hadn't ended up having things I absolutely had to do on that Friday after, I would have taken it off.
It's definitely not universal, but it most definitely happens. My organization consists of 135 people which is the smallest I've ever worked for. We strongly encouraged employees to take their sick time if they had it available on the days they received their shots just in case, and the vast majority did.
We didn't have anywhere close to 1/3 or our organization call in after their shot saying that they weren't feeling well....that would have been about 44/45 people. As I recall, we've had about 10-12 that have said they didn't feel well enough to come to work...mostly headache and/or fatigue. I know of at least three that I would say it is about a 90% probability of being utter BS due to past history, but not enough there to actually do anything more than have them on a "watch close" list.
I have to say though...I don't really understand the "martyrdom" of not using paid time off which is part of one's benefit package, especially if it's use it or lose it. I use mine...I try to keep a bank of 3 weeks vacation and 2 weeks of sick just incase something happens, but otherwise I have no qualms using a benefit that is part of my compensation package. We have a few people that rarely take any time off and it's easy to see that it wears them down...they would be better and more productive if they took some time off for themselves. I am impressed by people getting their stuff done, not necessarily by having a butt in a seat every single day.
I don't understand this. Why would you expect people to call in and report on what their reaction was when the "vast majority" already scheduled sick leave "just in case" because your organization "strongly" encouraged them to? If I've scheduled sick leave ahead of time, whether it be for a medical appointment or to take care of a family member's health needs (acceptable use of sick leave at my organization), it would never cross my mind that I needed to call in and report any symptoms I might end up experiencing that day.
Someone has their shot scheduled for 10AM on Tuesday and are pre-approved to take that day off just in case...doesn't matter if they have any reaction or not, that time is pre-approved just in case. Then let's say they call in "sick" on Wednesday and Thursday. All I'm saying is that some people will be legitimately feeling unwell...but some people also use it as a viable excuse to use their sick time even though they feel fine...ie they're lying about feeling unwell.
1/3 of my organization didn't call in sick...that just seems like a lot of people to me and what I was responding to...33% of the workforce calling in sick.4 -
kshama2001 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I know shingles vaccine in US is different brand than we use in Australia - but I have given many shingles vaccines to people and nobody has reported much at all in way of side effects.
@paperpudding I would swear I have read people saying that their shingles vaccine reaction was worse than their COVID. I hope that your observations are the reality.paperpudding wrote: »I'm not sure how many people have said that.
It isn't my observation of patients here though ( we do use different brand to US,not sure if that matters)
Here in the US we use Shingrix, which has more reports of reaction than the now discontinued in the US Zostavax.
https://www.singlecare.com/blog/shingrix-vs-zostavax/Compared to Zostavax, Shingrix has been reported to cause more systemic reactions like headache, fever, muscle pain (myalgia), and fatigue.
I am scheduled to have my second Shingrix shot in July. I'm very curious about my reaction because while I got really sick after my first shot, some or all of that may have been due to the Anaplasmosis I was diagnosed with later that month.
@kshama2001 If you think of it, update me after your second shot. I have been debating that vaccine for a while because i am not sure I understand the risks to me if I don't take it. I have already had shingles at age 32, and then gave my son the chicken pox who gave it to his whole kindergarten class as well as his baby sister.I'm at an age where I should get the shingles vaccine too, and I'm more intimidated to get it than the covid one (which I was excited and happy to get), and also don't feel the "do this for public health and so this nightmare can finally be over" pressure to do it ASAP. Also curious about how it goes, kshama. I really don't want shingles, granted!
I'm scheduled to get it July 19. I will definitely remember to update if I have a bad reaction and will try to remember if I don't
3 -
Antiopelle wrote: »Wow, I'm a little bit baffled - and wiser - reading different approaches to sick days. In Belgium (closer to the rules in Finland apparently), it is very clear: you get x days of paid holidays (the legal minimum is 20 per year for a full time, most companies agree on more) and that's it. Those are for relaxing under the sun!
If you are sick to the point you can't work, you need to see a doctor and he/she will determine how much time you will be off work. A formal note is written and you have to hand this over to your employer on the first day of illness, whether it is for one day (the 'sneezing with a bit of fever or sprained ankle and can't drive' kind of sickness), for three days, or for a few months alike. Very exceptionally, you can stay one day off work without a doctor's note, but that is - I think - one day a year and you will be on HR's radar if you do that.
As for the covid vaccines: you will get time off to have the shot (you only need to report it to your manager) and if you have symptoms severe enough to prevent you from working, the same rule applies: see a doctor, which is the most sensible option imo.
@hipari : I work in the same kind of environment as you do and I get it that you wanted to advocate for your staff and for yourself. I do believe it is a difference in culture and the nature of the job, indeed (although I know some very motivated McDo burger flippers, who follow in-company courses to advance in their careers ).Muscleflex79 wrote: »Wow, this seems like it would be a huge waste of medical resources to have to go to a doctor for a single day off. not to mention, if someone is off feeling like **** the last thing they probably feel like doing is sitting around a doctor's office for half a day trying to get a note. I'm in Canada and at my employer and any I've heard of, if you are off more than 3 in a row you need a note which seems reasonable (not sure if that is a Canada thing or if it varies by employer).
I'm fortunate that where I work we are allowed 120 sick days per year - yes - 120. I remember when I first got the job many, many years ago telling my parents about it and they literally did not believe me. I had to show them in writing and they just shook their heads. And yes, some people have taken every single one of those (but most people average less than 10).
When I was in the military, we were required to go to Sick Call if we weren't going to show up for work. This was a very effective method of getting people to show up to work. I believe I took sick time just once in four years.
By contrast, at my previous job, where I was a machine operator, the amount of sick time people took was staggering. And by "sick" I mean "too hungover to work."
When we got paid on Fridays at lunch time, a number of people would not return after lunch. (This was in the 80s before direct deposit was widespread.) So they moved payday to Thursday at lunch, which made things worse - that group would take Thursday afternoon off, as well as all day Friday. Then they moved it to Wednesday, which did improve matters. (Probably we got paid at lunch so people could go to the bank while it was open.)
Back to the military - while we certainly did have our share of partiers, especially in Okinawa, due to the Sick Call policy people did make it in to work far more often than they would have without it.
After the military I started working in white collar jobs. I'm not remembering the specific details of sick and personal time at the liberal arts college, but it was very generous. Possibly we needed to see a doctor if we were out for more than three days. However, my coworkers and I were hardly ever out sick.1 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Antiopelle wrote: »Wow, I'm a little bit baffled - and wiser - reading different approaches to sick days. In Belgium (closer to the rules in Finland apparently), it is very clear: you get x days of paid holidays (the legal minimum is 20 per year for a full time, most companies agree on more) and that's it. Those are for relaxing under the sun!
If you are sick to the point you can't work, you need to see a doctor and he/she will determine how much time you will be off work. A formal note is written and you have to hand this over to your employer on the first day of illness, whether it is for one day (the 'sneezing with a bit of fever or sprained ankle and can't drive' kind of sickness), for three days, or for a few months alike. Very exceptionally, you can stay one day off work without a doctor's note, but that is - I think - one day a year and you will be on HR's radar if you do that.
As for the covid vaccines: you will get time off to have the shot (you only need to report it to your manager) and if you have symptoms severe enough to prevent you from working, the same rule applies: see a doctor, which is the most sensible option imo.
@hipari : I work in the same kind of environment as you do and I get it that you wanted to advocate for your staff and for yourself. I do believe it is a difference in culture and the nature of the job, indeed (although I know some very motivated McDo burger flippers, who follow in-company courses to advance in their careers ).Muscleflex79 wrote: »Wow, this seems like it would be a huge waste of medical resources to have to go to a doctor for a single day off. not to mention, if someone is off feeling like **** the last thing they probably feel like doing is sitting around a doctor's office for half a day trying to get a note. I'm in Canada and at my employer and any I've heard of, if you are off more than 3 in a row you need a note which seems reasonable (not sure if that is a Canada thing or if it varies by employer).
I'm fortunate that where I work we are allowed 120 sick days per year - yes - 120. I remember when I first got the job many, many years ago telling my parents about it and they literally did not believe me. I had to show them in writing and they just shook their heads. And yes, some people have taken every single one of those (but most people average less than 10).
When I was in the military, we were required to go to Sick Call if we weren't going to show up for work. This was a very effective method of getting people to show up to work. I believe I took sick time just once in four years.
By contrast, at my previous job, where I was a machine operator, the amount of sick time people took was staggering. And by "sick" I mean "too hungover to work."
When we got paid on Fridays at lunch time, a number of people would not return after lunch. (This was in the 80s before direct deposit was widespread.) So they moved payday to Thursday at lunch, which made things worse - that group would take Thursday afternoon off, as well as all day Friday. Then they moved it to Wednesday, which did improve matters. (Probably we got paid at lunch so people could go to the bank while it was open.)
Back to the military - while we certainly did have our share of partiers, especially in Okinawa, due to the Sick Call policy people did make it in to work far more often than they would have without it.
After the military I started working in white collar jobs. I'm not remembering the specific details of sick and personal time at the liberal arts college, but it was very generous. Possibly we needed to see a doctor if we were out for more than three days. However, my coworkers and I were hardly ever out sick.
A few years after I started my large corporate accounting job, part of my position was supervision the production accounting clerks who, among other things, had to deliver paychecks the foremen weekly to distribute to their union employees. There was a union contract coming up and the company wanted to make direct deposit mandatory for the union employees like it was for everyone else. The union fought it and it was not included in the contract, but did make the next one 4 years later. I asked the clerks I worked for what the big deal was. They said it wasn't an uncommon practice for someone to get their weekly check on Friday, cash it at the bar, spend some time at the bar drinking, maybe some gambling, then go home and show the spouse what was left of the paycheck "after #@%$@#& Uncle Sam" got hold of it.5 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I know shingles vaccine in US is different brand than we use in Australia - but I have given many shingles vaccines to people and nobody has reported much at all in way of side effects.
@paperpudding I would swear I have read people saying that their shingles vaccine reaction was worse than their COVID. I hope that your observations are the reality.paperpudding wrote: »I'm not sure how many people have said that.
It isn't my observation of patients here though ( we do use different brand to US,not sure if that matters)
Here in the US we use Shingrix, which has more reports of reaction than the now discontinued in the US Zostavax.
https://www.singlecare.com/blog/shingrix-vs-zostavax/Compared to Zostavax, Shingrix has been reported to cause more systemic reactions like headache, fever, muscle pain (myalgia), and fatigue.
I am scheduled to have my second Shingrix shot in July. I'm very curious about my reaction because while I got really sick after my first shot, some or all of that may have been due to the Anaplasmosis I was diagnosed with later that month.
@kshama2001 If you think of it, update me after your second shot. I have been debating that vaccine for a while because i am not sure I understand the risks to me if I don't take it. I have already had shingles at age 32, and then gave my son the chicken pox who gave it to his whole kindergarten class as well as his baby sister.
You can get shingles more than once. And now your son and his whole kindergarten class and his baby sister can get it when they grow up.
I am hoping that I am misinterpreting your words, but it feels like you are stating I did something wrong at the time that then jeopardized others. I was 32. It was 1993. There was no shingles or chicken pox vaccines available at that time and certainly would not have been given to a 32 year old if it had been developed. That was just the reality of the times. My life was also such that I never was able to see a doctor for my mysterious condition. The shingles was diagnosed due to my son developing the chicken pox. By then, his classmates and sister were exposed as well. Unfortunate all around.
@annpt77 Thanks for those details. I had forgotten about the nerve pain. I did have it for at least 10 years after and that pain was disturbing during those years. The shingles had only manifested in my left breast. Over the following years the pain would pop up randomly and would get my imagination going with concerns like breast cancer and such. I had forgotten about that until your comment since that after effect has been gone for years. I am sorry for what your friends went through. Sounds like I do need to get moving on starting the Shingles vaccination protocol.
Yes, you're misinterpreting my words. You said you weren't sure you understood the risks if you didn't get the shingles vaccine, and then mentioned that you already had the shingles. I was pointing out one of the risks and that the fact you mentioned doesn't mitigate those risks. You can get it again. You can get it again a lot worse.4 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Antiopelle wrote: »Wow, I'm a little bit baffled - and wiser - reading different approaches to sick days. In Belgium (closer to the rules in Finland apparently), it is very clear: you get x days of paid holidays (the legal minimum is 20 per year for a full time, most companies agree on more) and that's it. Those are for relaxing under the sun!
If you are sick to the point you can't work, you need to see a doctor and he/she will determine how much time you will be off work. A formal note is written and you have to hand this over to your employer on the first day of illness, whether it is for one day (the 'sneezing with a bit of fever or sprained ankle and can't drive' kind of sickness), for three days, or for a few months alike. Very exceptionally, you can stay one day off work without a doctor's note, but that is - I think - one day a year and you will be on HR's radar if you do that.
As for the covid vaccines: you will get time off to have the shot (you only need to report it to your manager) and if you have symptoms severe enough to prevent you from working, the same rule applies: see a doctor, which is the most sensible option imo.
@hipari : I work in the same kind of environment as you do and I get it that you wanted to advocate for your staff and for yourself. I do believe it is a difference in culture and the nature of the job, indeed (although I know some very motivated McDo burger flippers, who follow in-company courses to advance in their careers ).Muscleflex79 wrote: »Wow, this seems like it would be a huge waste of medical resources to have to go to a doctor for a single day off. not to mention, if someone is off feeling like **** the last thing they probably feel like doing is sitting around a doctor's office for half a day trying to get a note. I'm in Canada and at my employer and any I've heard of, if you are off more than 3 in a row you need a note which seems reasonable (not sure if that is a Canada thing or if it varies by employer).
I'm fortunate that where I work we are allowed 120 sick days per year - yes - 120. I remember when I first got the job many, many years ago telling my parents about it and they literally did not believe me. I had to show them in writing and they just shook their heads. And yes, some people have taken every single one of those (but most people average less than 10).
When I was in the military, we were required to go to Sick Call if we weren't going to show up for work. This was a very effective method of getting people to show up to work. I believe I took sick time just once in four years.
By contrast, at my previous job, where I was a machine operator, the amount of sick time people took was staggering. And by "sick" I mean "too hungover to work."
When we got paid on Fridays at lunch time, a number of people would not return after lunch. (This was in the 80s before direct deposit was widespread.) So they moved payday to Thursday at lunch, which made things worse - that group would take Thursday afternoon off, as well as all day Friday. Then they moved it to Wednesday, which did improve matters. (Probably we got paid at lunch so people could go to the bank while it was open.)
Back to the military - while we certainly did have our share of partiers, especially in Okinawa, due to the Sick Call policy people did make it in to work far more often than they would have without it.
After the military I started working in white collar jobs. I'm not remembering the specific details of sick and personal time at the liberal arts college, but it was very generous. Possibly we needed to see a doctor if we were out for more than three days. However, my coworkers and I were hardly ever out sick.
A few years after I started my large corporate accounting job, part of my position was supervision the production accounting clerks who, among other things, had to deliver paychecks the foremen weekly to distribute to their union employees. There was a union contract coming up and the company wanted to make direct deposit mandatory for the union employees like it was for everyone else. The union fought it and it was not included in the contract, but did make the next one 4 years later. I asked the clerks I worked for what the big deal was. They said it wasn't an uncommon practice for someone to get their weekly check on Friday, cash it at the bar, spend some time at the bar drinking, maybe some gambling, then go home and show the spouse what was left of the paycheck "after #@%$@#& Uncle Sam" got hold of it.
Complete digression, but similar experience that I found entertaining: I was project manager for replacing the payroll system in a large organization (20k+ employees, I think 7 or so unions). The old system could only handle direct deposit for regular paychecks, not for special payments (longevity, some groups' overtime, etc.) that was paid off their usual pay schedule. New system would automatically do direct deposit for everything, paid on any schedule, once the employee signed up for it. Project team & payroll managers thought this was a feature, but one of the unions (the cops!) went ballistic when they learned. Turned out that a goodly number of their members were not telling their spouses about the overtime pay & longevity that they got off normal schedule! Fortunately, the payroll manager had a backbone, told them their marital deceptions were their problem, not the organization's, and made it stick. 😆15 -
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Muscleflex79 wrote: »Antiopelle wrote: »Wow, I'm a little bit baffled - and wiser - reading different approaches to sick days. In Belgium (closer to the rules in Finland apparently), it is very clear: you get x days of paid holidays (the legal minimum is 20 per year for a full time, most companies agree on more) and that's it. Those are for relaxing under the sun!
If you are sick to the point you can't work, you need to see a doctor and he/she will determine how much time you will be off work. A formal note is written and you have to hand this over to your employer on the first day of illness, whether it is for one day (the 'sneezing with a bit of fever or sprained ankle and can't drive' kind of sickness), for three days, or for a few months alike. Very exceptionally, you can stay one day off work without a doctor's note, but that is - I think - one day a year and you will be on HR's radar if you do that.
As for the covid vaccines: you will get time off to have the shot (you only need to report it to your manager) and if you have symptoms severe enough to prevent you from working, the same rule applies: see a doctor, which is the most sensible option imo.
@hipari : I work in the same kind of environment as you do and I get it that you wanted to advocate for your staff and for yourself. I do believe it is a difference in culture and the nature of the job, indeed (although I know some very motivated McDo burger flippers, who follow in-company courses to advance in their careers ).
Wow, this seems like it would be a huge waste of medical resources to have to go to a doctor for a single day off. not to mention, if someone is off feeling like **** the last thing they probably feel like doing is sitting around a doctor's office for half a day trying to get a note. I'm in Canada and at my employer and any I've heard of, if you are off more than 3 in a row you need a note which seems reasonable (not sure if that is a Canada thing or if it varies by employer).
I'm fortunate that where I work we are allowed 120 sick days per year - yes - 120. I remember when I first got the job many, many years ago telling my parents about it and they literally did not believe me. I had to show them in writing and they just shook their heads. And yes, some people have taken every single one of those (but most people average less than 10).
A doctor's check for a 1 - 3 day note usually takes up 10 minutes. You go in, doctor checks you out, gives you the note and you're out again. If you really feel like crap, you can ask a doctor's visit at home. It is almost always a family GP who knows you and your file. I think it is a good system as it takes away the ambiguity away from the employer - employee relationship.
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Antiopelle wrote: »Muscleflex79 wrote: »Antiopelle wrote: »Wow, I'm a little bit baffled - and wiser - reading different approaches to sick days. In Belgium (closer to the rules in Finland apparently), it is very clear: you get x days of paid holidays (the legal minimum is 20 per year for a full time, most companies agree on more) and that's it. Those are for relaxing under the sun!
If you are sick to the point you can't work, you need to see a doctor and he/she will determine how much time you will be off work. A formal note is written and you have to hand this over to your employer on the first day of illness, whether it is for one day (the 'sneezing with a bit of fever or sprained ankle and can't drive' kind of sickness), for three days, or for a few months alike. Very exceptionally, you can stay one day off work without a doctor's note, but that is - I think - one day a year and you will be on HR's radar if you do that.
As for the covid vaccines: you will get time off to have the shot (you only need to report it to your manager) and if you have symptoms severe enough to prevent you from working, the same rule applies: see a doctor, which is the most sensible option imo.
@hipari : I work in the same kind of environment as you do and I get it that you wanted to advocate for your staff and for yourself. I do believe it is a difference in culture and the nature of the job, indeed (although I know some very motivated McDo burger flippers, who follow in-company courses to advance in their careers ).
Wow, this seems like it would be a huge waste of medical resources to have to go to a doctor for a single day off. not to mention, if someone is off feeling like **** the last thing they probably feel like doing is sitting around a doctor's office for half a day trying to get a note. I'm in Canada and at my employer and any I've heard of, if you are off more than 3 in a row you need a note which seems reasonable (not sure if that is a Canada thing or if it varies by employer).
I'm fortunate that where I work we are allowed 120 sick days per year - yes - 120. I remember when I first got the job many, many years ago telling my parents about it and they literally did not believe me. I had to show them in writing and they just shook their heads. And yes, some people have taken every single one of those (but most people average less than 10).
A doctor's check for a 1 - 3 day note usually takes up 10 minutes. You go in, doctor checks you out, gives you the note and you're out again. If you really feel like crap, you can ask a doctor's visit at home. It is almost always a family GP who knows you and your file. I think it is a good system as it takes away the ambiguity away from the employer - employee relationship.
Sounds super easy for you. This is not so simple in the U.S. We don't have inexpensive universal healthcare with such ease of access as you describe. Many people don't have insurance, so a trip to the doctor can cost more out of pocket just for an office visit than a lot of people make in a day of work. It's not always easy to get same day (or even same week) doctor's appointments. I've never in my life had it take 10 minutes to go see a doctor. There's usually a long wait once you get there, I assume due to overbooking appointments. I've waited hours at times.
I do have insurance, and getting an appt. can take awhile. If you can't get an appt. with your GP and you need to be seen sooner, you probably have to go to urgent care, which has a much higher copay on my plan. It's definitely a hardship and really is a waste of time and resources to need a note for a single day of absence. Every employer I've ever had has a 3 day rule.
Happily, during the COVID shut down, my health care plan switched to doing phone appts and the best thing about that is they call you when they are ready. You can rest at home instead of having to travel when you feel awful and then sitting in the office for two to three hours waiting for them to be ready to see you. Hopefully that's something they keep doing.13 -
https://www.eatthis.com/covid-19-signs/
Hair loss and Fatigue were two that jumped out in my experience.0 -
Antiopelle wrote: »Muscleflex79 wrote: »Antiopelle wrote: »Wow, I'm a little bit baffled - and wiser - reading different approaches to sick days. In Belgium (closer to the rules in Finland apparently), it is very clear: you get x days of paid holidays (the legal minimum is 20 per year for a full time, most companies agree on more) and that's it. Those are for relaxing under the sun!
If you are sick to the point you can't work, you need to see a doctor and he/she will determine how much time you will be off work. A formal note is written and you have to hand this over to your employer on the first day of illness, whether it is for one day (the 'sneezing with a bit of fever or sprained ankle and can't drive' kind of sickness), for three days, or for a few months alike. Very exceptionally, you can stay one day off work without a doctor's note, but that is - I think - one day a year and you will be on HR's radar if you do that.
As for the covid vaccines: you will get time off to have the shot (you only need to report it to your manager) and if you have symptoms severe enough to prevent you from working, the same rule applies: see a doctor, which is the most sensible option imo.
@hipari : I work in the same kind of environment as you do and I get it that you wanted to advocate for your staff and for yourself. I do believe it is a difference in culture and the nature of the job, indeed (although I know some very motivated McDo burger flippers, who follow in-company courses to advance in their careers ).
Wow, this seems like it would be a huge waste of medical resources to have to go to a doctor for a single day off. not to mention, if someone is off feeling like **** the last thing they probably feel like doing is sitting around a doctor's office for half a day trying to get a note. I'm in Canada and at my employer and any I've heard of, if you are off more than 3 in a row you need a note which seems reasonable (not sure if that is a Canada thing or if it varies by employer).
I'm fortunate that where I work we are allowed 120 sick days per year - yes - 120. I remember when I first got the job many, many years ago telling my parents about it and they literally did not believe me. I had to show them in writing and they just shook their heads. And yes, some people have taken every single one of those (but most people average less than 10).
A doctor's check for a 1 - 3 day note usually takes up 10 minutes. You go in, doctor checks you out, gives you the note and you're out again. If you really feel like crap, you can ask a doctor's visit at home. It is almost always a family GP who knows you and your file. I think it is a good system as it takes away the ambiguity away from the employer - employee relationship.
In the US usually can't get an appointment with regular doctor with a day or 2 notice. If have to go to prompt care can be couple hour wait at busy times, plus the time spent travelling to and from the doctor's office. Could easily take 3-4 hours of a person's time for a 10 minute visit. Plus the patient gets the opportunity to sit in the waiting room with others who have Lord knows what cooties.12
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