Coronavirus prep
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SuzySunshine99 wrote: »Jenilla - I'm in the UK. Were registrars and specific persons are required to hold marriage ceremonies. Where unless one pays additional fees for a special licence one waits three weeks while the licence is posted. Similar, probably coming from "the "bands being" read in churches here. When persons in the community can raise objections, just causes and impediments. Registrars have training to spot problematic registrations. Mainly this comes from persons requiring, "marriages of convenience" to achieve "right to stay" having married someone British born. The UK system is so hot, or tries to be hot on marriages of convenience that many, persons who are deeply committed to each other over many years are forced to endure years of separation until the non Brit party is permitted to join their British born partners. None of that relates to how I read the other poster, its just UK background.
Someone, not you, jenilla. Said in their state they can go out in the yard and say or do something then submit some paperwork which means they are married. This read as an open opportunity for the exploitation and violation of a person who needs their rights protected.
I think the US have age restrictions in some states which restrict the age at which alcohol can be taken for example and driving licences held. Those States restrictions probably also include age restrictions for marriages. Over many years now young school aged girls have been taken from the UK to other countries where they are entered into (forced) marriages, ones for which they are not deemed legally old enough to consent too, arranged ones at ages which are totally inappropriate according to UK law. We have Child Protection legislation to cover these and other situations with appropriate action being taken to hopefully keep the children safe.
Reading of persons being able to go into their back yards in some parts of the US and then provide paperwork to the, effect the parties are now married. This may be all well and good as long as the parties are in total agreement in what they are signing up for. There can be situations where one or other of the parties is/are being coerced, subjugated to the wants/needs of another even others, at determent to themselves, it becomes abusive.
In the last 18months with our lockdowns and covid restrictions, I've been becoming aware so much more of exploitative, not always marriages, where coercive control/abusive relationships otherwise known as Domestic Violence are some poor persons reality.
To me, being able to say a few words in your back yard, then giving signatures, however they were obtained, which are then simplistically accepted and rubber stamped just screamed the opportunity for this Domestic Violence. Like I said, I'm deeply relieved for the above reasons, that this has no place in our society.
I think you are misunderstanding the "backyard" situation. Anywhere in the U.S., you must first acquire a marriage license from your county clerk. This is where they check age requirements and other regulations. This is a required legal document. Then, you must have your license signed by an officiant who meets the credential requirements of your state. Some states require additional signatures of witnesses...some do not.
You seem to think it's a big, unregulated free-for-all...that's not at all how it works. The person getting married in a private backyard ceremony still had to obtain a license and an officiant to sign it. If not, they are not legally married.
Yes, my mom has a lovely backyard with extensive gardens and has hosted many weddings there. She served as an officiant once. Everyone got their paperwork in order first. I would not be a bit surprised if people were barefoot. I certainly was as a child.6 -
This recent opinion piece in the NYT addresses child marriage laws, their variability from state to state, and their general indifference to protecting young girls. Child marriage of boys isn't addressed at all.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/19/opinion/sunday/child-marriage-rape.html
ETA: There are many places in the USA where it is legal for a minor to be married with a parent's consent (the minor's consent is not needed or relevant), however the minor cannot file for divorce (for any reason, even if endangered) or enter into any other contract or even have a beer. Or a cigarette. Kristoff is just pointing out the problem with this for some girls.9 -
I have a pretty good friend willing to give up an Alaska cruise in Sept and forfeit airline tickets because she will not get vaccinated. The reason given is that we are all guinea pigs until the FDA provides full approval. I asked if she would get vaccinated if the full FDA bells and whistles happens. The answer was "the jury is still out". Anyway I understand it's a totally personal decision at this point, and altho I thought it was a little bit rude to call me a guinea pig I decided to try to change the subject vs have an argument. Unfortunately she proceeded to say that 4000 people had died of the vaccine. I hesitate to confirm or deny because I don't know what data they are quoting? 4K for ALL vaccines world wide? I don't think that would be accurate for just the US? Anyway, she ended up getting mad at me anyway because I told her I didn't want to argue.... What's odd is that she is not antivaxx just I think scared of this new one and how fast it came to market. And she loves to travel....the whole thing makes me sad tho.16
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Susie. Thank you, that is reassuring. It did seem like a big free for all but what does one know from the other side of the pond. Thank you.
I should have read on. Child marriage is possible in some states!!! I'm glad I live here and not in one of those states.2 -
SummerSkier wrote: »I have a pretty good friend willing to give up an Alaska cruise in Sept and forfeit airline tickets because she will not get vaccinated. The reason given is that we are all guinea pigs until the FDA provides full approval. I asked if she would get vaccinated if the full FDA bells and whistles happens. The answer was "the jury is still out". Anyway I understand it's a totally personal decision at this point, and altho I thought it was a little bit rude to call me a guinea pig I decided to try to change the subject vs have an argument. Unfortunately she proceeded to say that 4000 people had died of the vaccine. I hesitate to confirm or deny because I don't know what data they are quoting? 4K for ALL vaccines world wide? I don't think that would be accurate for just the US? Anyway, she ended up getting mad at me anyway because I told her I didn't want to argue.... What's odd is that she is not antivaxx just I think scared of this new one and how fast it came to market. And she loves to travel....the whole thing makes me sad tho.
I think she's confusing deaths that have been reported to VAERS after vaccination as required by the FDA and deaths that after review have been confirmed to be linked to the vaccine. Roughly 5,000 deaths have been reported after vaccine to VAERS. Doctors and safety monitors carefully review the details of each case and only three deaths have been confirmed to be related to the vaccine...all three were a result of blood clots after receiving the J&J vaccine. This out of 309M vaccine doses given in the US.
Conversely, the virus itself has killed roughly 600K people in the US.21 -
Anyone else got mixed doses of Pfizer and Moderna?
I got both Pfizer but my kids got Pfizer first and then Moderna ... the great Canadian vaccine experiment continues. I mean it's a new vaccine for everyone but Canada is sure pushing the uncertainty more than most countries.
They are telling us to take whatever is available, which right now seems to be only Moderna.
I checked the CDC website and although they don't recommend mixing vaccines, they do consider those who have had two different mRNA vaccines to be fully vaccinated, so that is encouraging.10 -
Susie. Thank you, that is reassuring. It did seem like a big free for all but what does one know from the other side of the pond. Thank you.
I should have read on. Child marriage is possible in some states!!! I'm glad I live here and not in one of those states.
I think you are jumping to conclusions about what is going on and how different it is from the UK:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/child-marriage-british-girls-b1812608.html
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/may/04/child-marriage-thriving-in-uk-due-to-legal-loophole-warn-rights-groups#:~:text=1 month old-,Child marriage 'thriving in UK' due to,legal loophole, warn rights groups&text=Furthermore, there is no legal,taking place – at any age.4 -
Anyone else got mixed doses of Pfizer and Moderna?
I got both Pfizer but my kids got Pfizer first and then Moderna ... the great Canadian vaccine experiment continues. I mean it's a new vaccine for everyone but Canada is sure pushing the uncertainty more than most countries. They are telling us to take whatever is available, which right now seems to be only Moderna.
I checked the CDC website and although they don't recommend mixing vaccines, they do consider those who have had two different mRNA vaccines to be fully vaccinated, so that is encouraging.
I've seen some stuff suggesting that mixing might even be better, although who knows. I don't think there's been any reason to do mixed in the US, so I'm not aware of anyone who has gotten that here. I got both Pfizer.6 -
SummerSkier wrote: »I have a pretty good friend willing to give up an Alaska cruise in Sept and forfeit airline tickets because she will not get vaccinated. The reason given is that we are all guinea pigs until the FDA provides full approval. I asked if she would get vaccinated if the full FDA bells and whistles happens. The answer was "the jury is still out". Anyway I understand it's a totally personal decision at this point, and altho I thought it was a little bit rude to call me a guinea pig I decided to try to change the subject vs have an argument. Unfortunately she proceeded to say that 4000 people had died of the vaccine. I hesitate to confirm or deny because I don't know what data they are quoting? 4K for ALL vaccines world wide? I don't think that would be accurate for just the US? Anyway, she ended up getting mad at me anyway because I told her I didn't want to argue.... What's odd is that she is not antivaxx just I think scared of this new one and how fast it came to market. And she loves to travel....the whole thing makes me sad tho.
Sorry about you having to deal with this "friend," Bon. I am glad to be a guinea pig if that means avoiding COVID and all the variants floating around. More than 600.000 people died of Covid-19 infection.
US Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy says he is concerned that the Detla variant of Covid-19 is behind the rise in cases of coronavirus in the US and warned that the unvaccinated are at risk because it spreads faster than any known variant.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2021/06/30/dr-vivek-murthy-surgeon-general-covid-19-delta-variant-sot-vpx-newday.cnn6 -
I checked the CDC website and although they don't recommend mixing vaccines, they do consider those who have had two different mRNA vaccines to be fully vaccinated, so that is encouraging.
That's good news. I don't know what I will end up getting for my second but my first was Moderna and we may be back into Pfizer supply (and short of Moderna) by the time of my appointment. I don't see a problem with efficacy, my concern was whether or not mixed brands would qualify for "vaccinated" status for international travel.2 -
I checked the CDC website and although they don't recommend mixing vaccines, they do consider those who have had two different mRNA vaccines to be fully vaccinated, so that is encouraging.
That's good news. I don't know what I will end up getting for my second but my first was Moderna and we may be back into Pfizer supply (and short of Moderna) by the time of my appointment. I don't see a problem with efficacy, my concern was whether or not mixed brands would qualify for "vaccinated" status for international travel.
That was our concern too but when it came down to getting a shot or waiting for Pfizer they chose to take the shot. If there are travel problems down the line I guess they will deal with it then - but given the info from the CDC I don't anticipate there being an issue.
"If two doses of different mRNA COVID-19 vaccine products are administered in these situations (or inadvertently), no additional doses of either product are recommended at this time. Such persons are considered fully vaccinated against COVID-19 ≥2 weeks after receipt of the second dose of an mRNA vaccine." -- CDC website
And our 2nd vaccine receipts both say the same thing "You have received 2 valid dose(s)" so I think they are good to go.4 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Muscleflex79 wrote: »cmhubbard92 wrote: »I got married in February. Instead of worrying about a venue, we decorated my in-laws house and had a small wedding there. It was beautiful, personal, and our guests(close family and a few friends) were on board for wearing masks despite most of them being fully vaccinated. My mother-in-law made me a beautiful mask using lace from her wedding dress and wearing masks did not disrupt our day. We took it off while eating/drinking, while taking some photos, and during the ceremony(JOP requested it so people could hear us better, but it was a very quick ceremony, and sealing the deal would have been quite unusual). I wouldn't have changed anything, except for being able to have my brother there with us; CA and CT both had tough restrictions, and his return to work would have been more complicated due to their covid policies. Fortunately, we were able to video call him to watch the wedding, and that was perfect.
Unless the reason you will have to reschedule is due to size limitations, I would still keep the date. Masks are not going to ruin the entire day, and if people don't want to wear them while supporting the bride and groom, then they don't seem very supportive, IMHO.
here in Ontario (where I think 33gail33 is from) we have not been able to meet with people from outside our household for months. we have been on lockdown since last November and could literally not meet with anyone we don't live with - in or outside. And yes, police have been called on people who have others over - it is absolute insanity here with no real end in sight. that being said, some of those restrictions MAY be easing up in the next month or two, but I would imagine it is hard for someone to plan on having a wedding having no idea if that would even be legal at the time (even in a private home).
Well that's very different from the post that started this subthread, which only mentioned mask mandates and nothing about not being allowed to gather or even a limit on the number who could gather.
Well I said there was a mask mandate in place, I didn't specify exactly every restriction that entailed.
I am surprised so many people would be OK with having a wedding that way, and I suspect that if was their wedding they might have a different view.
We went to a christening last summer with the mask mandate in place. So we sat at a table with our household (husband, daughter, son and fiancee), ate our meal, the parents came by to thank us for coming, and no interaction with anyone else. I said when we left that we might as well have just stayed home and ate it wasn't like a social event. The idea of paying $20,000 + for a wedding reception under those circumstances seems ridiculous to me. But to each their own I guess.
Actually, I've been to too many weddings in non-Covid times that were like that -- plated meals served to people in assigned seats, grouped as much as possible with the people they already know and see frequently, with no dancing, and the bride and groom trooping by the tables for a minute or two each to thank people for coming.
When I've been in a position where friends sought my input during the reception planning stage, I've had mothers of the bride look at me as though I was trying to burn the church down when I'd suggest a buffet and a venue with space and music for dancing, which is pretty much what all of the "fun" wedding receptions I've ever been to were like.7 -
Jenilla - I'm in the UK. Were registrars and specific persons are required to hold marriage ceremonies. Where unless one pays additional fees for a special licence one waits three weeks while the licence is posted. Similar, probably coming from "the "bands being" read in churches here. When persons in the community can raise objections, just causes and impediments. Registrars have training to spot problematic registrations. Mainly this comes from persons requiring, "marriages of convenience" to achieve "right to stay" having married someone British born. The UK system is so hot, or tries to be hot on marriages of convenience that many, persons who are deeply committed to each other over many years are forced to endure years of separation until the non Brit party is permitted to join their British born partners. None of that relates to how I read the other poster, its just UK background.
Someone, not you, jenilla. Said in their state they can go out in the yard and say or do something then submit some paperwork which means they are married. This read as an open opportunity for the exploitation and violation of a person who needs their rights protected.
I think the US have age restrictions in some states which restrict the age at which alcohol can be taken for example and driving licences held. Those States restrictions probably also include age restrictions for marriages. Over many years now young school aged girls have been taken from the UK to other countries where they are entered into (forced) marriages, ones for which they are not deemed legally old enough to consent too, arranged ones at ages which are totally inappropriate according to UK law. We have Child Protection legislation to cover these and other situations with appropriate action being taken to hopefully keep the children safe.
Reading of persons being able to go into their back yards in some parts of the US and then provide paperwork to the, effect the parties are now married. This may be all well and good as long as the parties are in total agreement in what they are signing up for. There can be situations where one or other of the parties is/are being coerced, subjugated to the wants/needs of another even others, at determent to themselves, it becomes abusive.
In the last 18months with our lockdowns and covid restrictions, I've been becoming aware so much more of exploitative, not always marriages, where coercive control/abusive relationships otherwise known as Domestic Violence are some poor persons reality.
To me, being able to say a few words in your back yard, then giving signatures, however they were obtained, which are then simplistically accepted and rubber stamped just screamed the opportunity for this Domestic Violence. Like I said, I'm deeply relieved for the above reasons, that this has no place in our society.
In the U.S., there's plenty enough domestic violence, sexually abused minors, and girls married to men who, legally speaking, raped them before marrying them that occurs totally outside of "backyard marriages." I would suspect if occurs hundreds of times more often in marriages performed in court houses and houses of worship than in marriages performed in someone's backyard. Then once someone underage is married, they can't legally file for divorce in some states because they're still children. Focusing on backyard marriages is like worrying about the sale of slingshots during a gun violence epidemic, or about the leaky faucet dripping in your bathtub when the winds have roof off your house during a hurricane or derecho.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/04/13/behind-gaetz-scandal-theres-bigger-issue-most-states-have-loopholes-that-let-men-exploit-teen-girls/
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SummerSkier wrote: »I have a pretty good friend willing to give up an Alaska cruise in Sept and forfeit airline tickets because she will not get vaccinated. The reason given is that we are all guinea pigs until the FDA provides full approval. I asked if she would get vaccinated if the full FDA bells and whistles happens. The answer was "the jury is still out". Anyway I understand it's a totally personal decision at this point, and altho I thought it was a little bit rude to call me a guinea pig I decided to try to change the subject vs have an argument. Unfortunately she proceeded to say that 4000 people had died of the vaccine. I hesitate to confirm or deny because I don't know what data they are quoting? 4K for ALL vaccines world wide? I don't think that would be accurate for just the US? Anyway, she ended up getting mad at me anyway because I told her I didn't want to argue.... What's odd is that she is not antivaxx just I think scared of this new one and how fast it came to market. And she loves to travel....the whole thing makes me sad tho.
Sorry about you having to deal with this "friend," Bon. I am glad to be a guinea pig if that means avoiding COVID and all the variants floating around. More than 600.000 people died of Covid-19 infection.
US Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy says he is concerned that the Detla variant of Covid-19 is behind the rise in cases of coronavirus in the US and warned that the unvaccinated are at risk because it spreads faster than any known variant.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2021/06/30/dr-vivek-murthy-surgeon-general-covid-19-delta-variant-sot-vpx-newday.cnn
With both Moderna shots I have a 12% risk if exposed the Delta variant that has raised cane in India.
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I checked the CDC website and although they don't recommend mixing vaccines, they do consider those who have had two different mRNA vaccines to be fully vaccinated, so that is encouraging.
That's good news. I don't know what I will end up getting for my second but my first was Moderna and we may be back into Pfizer supply (and short of Moderna) by the time of my appointment. I don't see a problem with efficacy, my concern was whether or not mixed brands would qualify for "vaccinated" status for international travel.
This has been my main concern and I'm not sure enough people have considered it (or maybe they don't care about travel like us?) There are definitely countries that are not accepting mix and match as proof of vaccine - Barbados is one. I haven't looked into every country's requirements though and they may change as time goes on and research does come out, but I am certainly not willing risking not being able to get into a country because I did the mix and match method.3 -
Anyone else got mixed doses of Pfizer and Moderna?
I got both Pfizer but my kids got Pfizer first and then Moderna ... the great Canadian vaccine experiment continues. I mean it's a new vaccine for everyone but Canada is sure pushing the uncertainty more than most countries. They are telling us to take whatever is available, which right now seems to be only Moderna.
I checked the CDC website and although they don't recommend mixing vaccines, they do consider those who have had two different mRNA vaccines to be fully vaccinated, so that is encouraging.
you can say that again! while mix and match may be the least of our problems, don't forget about us spreading the doses 4 months apart instead of the recommended 21 days and using expired vaccines! Oh Canada!4 -
Muscleflex79 wrote: »I checked the CDC website and although they don't recommend mixing vaccines, they do consider those who have had two different mRNA vaccines to be fully vaccinated, so that is encouraging.
That's good news. I don't know what I will end up getting for my second but my first was Moderna and we may be back into Pfizer supply (and short of Moderna) by the time of my appointment. I don't see a problem with efficacy, my concern was whether or not mixed brands would qualify for "vaccinated" status for international travel.
This has been my main concern and I'm not sure enough people have considered it (or maybe they don't care about travel like us?) There are definitely countries that are not accepting mix and match as proof of vaccine - Barbados is one. I haven't looked into every country's requirements though and they may change as time goes on and research does come out, but I am certainly not willing risking not being able to get into a country because I did the mix and match method.
My daughter is a flight attendant (currently laid off of course) so they are gonna have to figure it out for international travel. Personally I think that two mRNA will end up being acceptable - but I could be wrong. And at least a million people got AZ and then Moderna (my sister is one of them - Trudeau might be as well?), so I can't imagine the gov't would just leave us hanging like that. (I think that some European countries are also doing the AZ/mRNA mix now)
I think that there are going to have to be international agreements worked out for what is acceptable, and if your country provides you with documentation stating we are fully vaccinated I think (hope?) most countries would accept that.
Like I posted before the 2nd vaccine receipt states on the bottom "you have received 2 valid doses" so I don't know that they would even check to see what kind you got for your first dose.
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SummerSkier wrote: »I have a pretty good friend willing to give up an Alaska cruise in Sept and forfeit airline tickets because she will not get vaccinated. The reason given is that we are all guinea pigs until the FDA provides full approval. I asked if she would get vaccinated if the full FDA bells and whistles happens. The answer was "the jury is still out". Anyway I understand it's a totally personal decision at this point, and altho I thought it was a little bit rude to call me a guinea pig I decided to try to change the subject vs have an argument. Unfortunately she proceeded to say that 4000 people had died of the vaccine. I hesitate to confirm or deny because I don't know what data they are quoting? 4K for ALL vaccines world wide? I don't think that would be accurate for just the US? Anyway, she ended up getting mad at me anyway because I told her I didn't want to argue.... What's odd is that she is not antivaxx just I think scared of this new one and how fast it came to market. And she loves to travel....the whole thing makes me sad tho.
Think of it this way. In this study published in 2018, the mortality rate in nursing home was 31.8% per year:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6143238/
So, nursing home residents get vaccinated in Phase 1. Some die. They were going to die anyway and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the vaccine.
Comparing death rates of vaccinated vs unvaccinated people is not a valid comparison because at risk people were prioritized for vaccinations, and they have a higher normal death rate.
Here's where the 4000 deaths figure came from, and the debunking thereof. My anti-vax aunt has been citing this as well:
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaers-deaths/fact-check-vaers-reported-vaccine-deaths-have-not-been-confirmed-or-deemed-causal-by-cdc-idUSL1N2MZ2H811 -
Great news here in North QLD. Our 3 day lockdown is over tonight! The young lady that brought Delta Covid here on holidays apparently didn't spread it around which I find hard to believe but happy about it. Wish we could put up a gate to keep the riff raff out till we are vax'd.11
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https://www.studyfinds.org/covid-19-changes-blood-cells/
After dealing with 5 months of serious blood clots first in the left leg then the right plus spending Easter weekend in ICU to clear their fragments from both lungs yet doctors could find no known causes I found this article helpful.7
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