Mental Health and Weight Loss: The Right Balance
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Yes, and if that isn't what was meant I owe you an apology, because I absolutely read it within the same context as the first page.
The bottom line is, people here are giving their time and what they've managed to work out for themselves for free, hoping to be helpful for others. They - we - are just people. Complaining about a lack of depth from people voluntarily sharing what they've managed to work out is... um. Not very nice.
If you're complaining about the DIET INDUSTRY and/or people who should very well know, outside and away from MFP being inadequate I agree with you. But here? No. we're all just people muddling through.8 -
Aside from the defensive and mean-spirited comments from Kashama (who needs to dismiss my concerns and then accuse me of expecting members to be mental health experts), the past few posting are incredible helpful and sensitive so thank you. The amazing stories, the reflections and personal experiences which reflect how mental health, weight issues and relevant approaches and strategies are so fascinating. I don't expect a therapeutic response. I hope for respect ad kindness with dignity and genuine regard for the complexity of the human mind and how we are all doing our best to cope. I very much appreciate the contributions of those of us who allow ourselves to be vulnerable and open to our fragility...without apology and defensiveness. I guess I feel a bit sad with the Kashamas of the world as I think people who volunteer their time and expertise are valued and appreciated and this forum is better off with people like them who are willing able to help us in so many ways. This is just my opinion, but there is no need to be defensive or to say"if you want therapy pay for it". Wow... where did that come from. I think if I wrote that I would be sanctioned and "warned". I may not have the best words to communicate and I will always take responsibility for what I write and if I ever offend or inadvertently hurt someone's feelings will apologise and take steps to ensure that I do not repeat the comments.
In any case, people will respond the way they do.
Thank you for reading this and participating. It means a lot to me and is helping me with what I am trying to work on personally. Thanks to this forum, to a large extent, I am feeling better about myself and yes, I am losing weight. It feels great and I am enjoying, by and large, the process.
Thank you and take care
S
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Oh my goodness, I am so sorry. I misread Kasham's post as she was reposting someone else. I should have been more careful. Please forgive me as I was wrong in my assumption and my reference to her. I was being too reactive. Again, my apologies.
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I really am sorry for my earlier post. I do feel upset with myself. Again my apologies
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I *think* I understand what you are wanting out of this discussion, OP. I am someone whose own mental health and behaviors have impacted my eating and weight since childhood, and generally am interested in analyzing human behavior/psychology. I also am currently on an SSRI for depression/anxiety, and very interested in how WHAT I eat affects my mood and behavior. I think I am pretty empathetic to how mental health can have a strong relationship with what, how much and why we eat, impacting attempts at weight loss.
Correct me if my assumption is wrong, but it sounds like maybe you were looking for a discussion amongst people who understand this connection personally. It also seemed like you were looking to bring awareness to others who perhaps view weight loss as more methodical in nature--those who think if one just followed the principles of CICO it would work? I agree that there may be a few who are less understanding of it and are pragmatic in their view of weight loss, as well as giving people who are struggling that kind of information. However, I think those people on here like that are few and far between. I also think that unless people have personal experience with mental health struggles and weight (either themselves or close family/friends), it's less likely for them to able to contribute in a more meaningful way. Some people are what I consider 'lucky" in that they've never really have consider how their own mental health impacts their weight.
I can say now that both mental health and relationship to eating and weight are in a MUCH better place now, mostly through my own work and self reflection/awareness.7 -
That was a really helpful comment. Thank you1
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I have a general question which is kind of bothering me. I did not realise it but I a number of "warnings" and quite a large number of people who disagreed with quite a number of my posts and I fear that I must have upset people. I guess I made myself think that one could be honest and direct without reprisal. I have to admit that I now feel very reluctant to continue my thread due to the "warnings" and being pit in "jail". I just feel so bad. I trusted this forum and thought it was safe to express and even vent. I guess not.4
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I could come on here and vent all I want about my boss (who is not on MFP) and that would be fine. However, we must play nice with other posters.
I've been reluctant to contribute to this thread because you've attacked me repeatedly. That would be less of an issue for me if this thread were in Debate (although there are still rules there.) You may recall on page 2 I said:kshama2001 wrote: »Just wondering if relying on "heavy sleep medication" might be an example of learned helplessness. After all, we have the capacity to sleep and babies do not need to learn this. Perhaps, it is a sign of giving up on going to sleep naturally. Just saying.
Oh, I wasn't referring to Ambien or anything like that. In fact, I definitely consider it a natural solution.
I'll own that I should have put "sleep meds" in quotes and have erased my original response.
You seem determined to pick a fight, which I find odd in a thread about mental health. I suggest that you own that and either dial it back or we can request that this thread be moved to Debate.
That said, I'm uncomfortable debating in a non-abstract thread about mental health, no matter where it is located.7 -
Ps - you should reread your notifications. I've reviewed this thread and noticed some missing posts, which weren't of "you" "venting."2
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HI Kashama and all,
I have been really grateful for the honest and challenging comments and feedback. I know I do not wake up in the morning with all of the knowledge required to live the "good" life and achieve important goals such as a healthy lifestyle. This forum has been a magnificent contribution to my motivation and success and I am grateful for the freedom to express and I acknowledge the efforts of the volunteers who simply share their experiences and ideas without compensation and renumeration. Thank you.
It would be very sad if healthy discourse was not allowed and sanctioning someone who, at times, becomes frustrated and even controversial would be a shame. Sometimes I think the term "mental health" is the distracting variable. Perhaps, we all have challenges with regards to the way we think/feel and behave and being allowed to explore and investigate relationships and correlations (i.e. the impacts of how our mind works on our eating behaviour and our motivation for fitness) should be tolerated and celebrated. I was confronted with my "warnings" and being "jailed" on such a friendly and open-minded platform made me wonder why that was necessary. It just seemed a bit cruel and perhaps reflective of some degree of either insecurity or fear of allowing a process to occur which was by no means intended to be upsetting to others. For that, I continue to apologise.
Shel
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Hi again,
Moving back to the point of this thread...I have been wondering what people think about the type of foods that might be related to mood fluctuations with an emphasis on low mood? I have often wondered if those of us who use food as "comfort" actually receive some form of elevation of food by way of dopamine or some increase of chemicals associated with affect. Would love to hear your thoughts and experiences. Thanks
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Given that they did a study with people in a scanner in real time that showed that fat consumption (they were using heavy cream versus whole milk) makes the brain light up like a shot of cocaine does, I guarantee that food can be used for mood fluctuations.
(After I saw that I started using small amounts of real fats in my cooking, real whipped cream on my cocoa, etc. The calorie count isn't that bad when I consider that then I can eat the food and be done, not constantly grazing. The fat is enough to satisfy.)1 -
Interesting Alexandra, Hey do you (or others) think food ought not to be used as rewards/motivation for children in order t modify behaviour? Perhaps this sets up the link (neurological connections) that make us attach food to receiving approval or at least a sense of achievement?0
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Interesting Alexandra, Hey do you (or others) think food ought not to be used as rewards/motivation for children in order t modify behaviour? Perhaps this sets up the link (neurological connections) that make us attach food to receiving approval or at least a sense of achievement?
All I can say is that when my sons were small and we went to the grocery store for the weekly shop, they did better with a reward to look forward to at the end of the shop. I did not want that to be candy at the checkout, mainly because I didn't want to have to deal with whining and tantrums every time we went through a checkout for anything (cause all the stores seem to have some candy at the checkout, and did even in the '90s).
So when they were at the age where they needed that bribe, they were the age to find a ride on the coin-operated mechanical pony at the entrance to be a thrilling reward. After that the reward became more distant, such as, "We'll go to Grandma's after we get done putting things away from the store, and you can swim in her pool!" Then when they were a little older, I could praise them and tell them how helpful they were with helping me find everything and checking things off the list, and making Mommy happy and being praised for being helpful and useful was enough of a reward.
Both boys, as adults, are not dealing with the weight problems their parents are. Though, in both cases, they have gut issues (lactose and gluten intolerance) that means they just can't eat whatever in whatever quantities without painful and memorable consequences. I'm just glad neither of them got my fructose intolerance and my IBS that hates cruciferous vegetables and most legumes. They are neither of them ripped, but they both work physically demanding jobs and are in decent shape. I can live with this as a parenting outcome.
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HI Kashama and all,
I have been really grateful for the honest and challenging comments and feedback. I know I do not wake up in the morning with all of the knowledge required to live the "good" life and achieve important goals such as a healthy lifestyle. This forum has been a magnificent contribution to my motivation and success and I am grateful for the freedom to express and I acknowledge the efforts of the volunteers who simply share their experiences and ideas without compensation and renumeration. Thank you.
It would be very sad if healthy discourse was not allowed and sanctioning someone who, at times, becomes frustrated and even controversial would be a shame. Sometimes I think the term "mental health" is the distracting variable. Perhaps, we all have challenges with regards to the way we think/feel and behave and being allowed to explore and investigate relationships and correlations (i.e. the impacts of how our mind works on our eating behaviour and our motivation for fitness) should be tolerated and celebrated. I was confronted with my "warnings" and being "jailed" on such a friendly and open-minded platform made me wonder why that was necessary. It just seemed a bit cruel and perhaps reflective of some degree of either insecurity or fear of allowing a process to occur which was by no means intended to be upsetting to others. For that, I continue to apologise.
Shel
Again, you should reread your notifications. I've reviewed this thread and noticed some missing posts, which weren't of "you" having healthy discourse.1 -
Hi again,
Moving back to the point of this thread...I have been wondering what people think about the type of foods that might be related to mood fluctuations with an emphasis on low mood? I have often wondered if those of us who use food as "comfort" actually receive some form of elevation of food by way of dopamine or some increase of chemicals associated with affect. Would love to hear your thoughts and experiences. Thanks
Yes, that's the whole point.1 -
Hi again,
Moving back to the point of this thread...I have been wondering what people think about the type of foods that might be related to mood fluctuations with an emphasis on low mood? I have often wondered if those of us who use food as "comfort" actually receive some form of elevation of food by way of dopamine or some increase of chemicals associated with affect. Would love to hear your thoughts and experiences. Thanks
Have you ever seen Supersize Me?
It’s anecdotal, but the documentarian in that movie does report an elevated mood from all that Micky D’s. Almost a euphoria. And then a hard crash.
That movie almost put me off fast food completely. Having to go on a low sodium diet finished that job. 🤣Interesting Alexandra, Hey do you (or others) think food ought not to be used as rewards/motivation for children in order t modify behaviour? Perhaps this sets up the link (neurological connections) that make us attach food to receiving approval or at least a sense of achievement?
I don’t think external rewards of any kind are the best motivator. Studies have shown time and time again that people will cease caring about the goal the moment the external rewards become meaningless to them.
Do people use external rewards with kids? Sure. Sometimes it’s expedient. But in my personal opinion it should be extremely limited, and phased out as the child grows older.
Where parents can do real damage is when they use food or material possessions as the main forms of rewards and punishments, instead of affection and attention spent with the child. It doesn’t even have to be huge chunks of time. As long as the child knows the affection is genuine, and they can rely on the parent for support at any moment.0 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »Hi again,
Moving back to the point of this thread...I have been wondering what people think about the type of foods that might be related to mood fluctuations with an emphasis on low mood? I have often wondered if those of us who use food as "comfort" actually receive some form of elevation of food by way of dopamine or some increase of chemicals associated with affect. Would love to hear your thoughts and experiences. Thanks
Have you ever seen Supersize Me?
It’s anecdotal, but the documentarian in that movie does report an elevated mood from all that Micky D’s. Almost a euphoria. And then a hard crash.
That movie almost put me off fast food completely. Having to go on a low sodium diet finished that job. 🤣Interesting Alexandra, Hey do you (or others) think food ought not to be used as rewards/motivation for children in order t modify behaviour? Perhaps this sets up the link (neurological connections) that make us attach food to receiving approval or at least a sense of achievement?
I don’t think external rewards of any kind are the best motivator. Studies have shown time and time again that people will cease caring about the goal the moment the external rewards become meaningless to them.
Do people use external rewards with kids? Sure. Sometimes it’s expedient. But in my personal opinion it should be extremely limited, and phased out as the child grows older.
Where parents can do real damage is when they use food or material possessions as the main forms of rewards and punishments, instead of affection and attention spent with the child. It doesn’t even have to be huge chunks of time. As long as the child knows the affection is genuine, and they can rely on the parent for support at any moment.
I haven't eaten a fast food burger since watching Food, Inc.1 -
Interesting Alexandra, Hey do you (or others) think food ought not to be used as rewards/motivation for children in order t modify behaviour? Perhaps this sets up the link (neurological connections) that make us attach food to receiving approval or at least a sense of achievement?
Yes, food ought not to be used as a reward (or withheld as a punishment). There have been threads here with people talking about how childhood reward/punishment scenarios involving food have contributed to their dysfunctional relationships with food as adults.
Is it possible that some families used food as reward/punishment without it scarring the kids? Sure, anything is possible, and it's less likely that people will post "this happened to me, and I was not hurt by it". To the extent that material rewards/punishments are needed in child rearing - and I'm not saying that they are, or how much they are - it should be possible to use things that are not required for a healthy life in the way that food is.0 -
Food for thought (no pun intended). I think we need the simple pleasures of nice food as a part of our quality of life. It is so easy to link/associate the pleasure with meeting needs that perhaps require a more considered understanding of what is truly good for us. More education? Better food options? Certainly more discussion.0
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