Zero Carb eating
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paperpudding wrote: »methinks the poster doth protest too much
Seems extreme and unnecessary and nutritionally inadequate to me
But anyway, good luck for the long haul.
Day 1 - long way ahead
Remember, there was at least another low carber that had to give us his daily progress (I won't name names). It must be part of the homework on this diet.10 -
russellholtslander1 wrote: »Let me address questions/statements here...
as long as it works for you and your doc is on board and you are under medical supervision, i cant say i have much issue with it.
i do find it unusual that you only see your doc every 6 months for bloodwork?
my ex had uncontrolled diabetes (among other issues) and had bloodwork done far more frequently (been several years now but i want to say every 2-3 months?)
I am not diabetic but for other reasons have my bloodwork done every month. And my health issues aren't as severe as yours. so, i just find that interesting. but my doc is as OCD as i am, so thats probably why we get along LOL7 -
I'm seeing Alot of red flags here. Wish you all the best
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russellholtslander1 wrote: »Let me address questions/statements here.
First of all, this isn't Stillman's. I have done other low carb plans before, but this isn't low carb. Stillman's aims for low fat meats. I aim for the highest fat possible. Lots of butter which I fry foods in. I also eat the skin of poultry. I think I can have a little dairy, but other than extra sharp cheddar, I will not be doing so ( and rarely ). I have lactose issues, and more importantly, not a fan of dairy overall. Just a little cheese on rare occasions.
Second. I didn't eat the bones.. I was simply saying the weight included the bone. I ate the skin, and tossed the bones in the garbage. I had 1.35 lbs. MINUS the weight of the bones. Whatever that is.
Third, I am a CHF patient, working to get to 210 lbs., or less, so I can have mitral valve replacement. I was born with this issue, Started having breathing issues as a teen, stopped exercising as much, gained weight, and was diagnosed in 2001, right after 9/11. I weighed 361 bs., and I am 5'6". I lost weight, and was off diabetes meds for 6 years, with 5-5.5 A1C's, so I know very low carb can work. I have been down to 240 lbs. years ago, but currently was back up to 280.6 as of yesterday, due to inconsistency. I get tested for everything, being a CHF patient, AND a diabetic. No, my time eating LC, wasn't loved by my doctors, but my results have been. Especially when I stuck on it for years, with minimal " cheats ". I should have kept on it strict, and lost the other 100 lbs., but mostly, I maintained, by having a cheat meal 1-2 times a week, which kept my blood sugars stable, and below 125 mg/dL.. big improvement from A1C's above 12, in my first decade of managing my diseases. The problem was that I started indulging in more carbs, and my weight, and test results started to go the wrong way. I was put back on some pills, and basal Insulin at night.. 15 units. So, I decided that it would be best to either commit FULLY, or admit I wasn't going to actually follow a LC plan. Then I admitted to myself that the only reason I eat any carbs, is it's expected of me. There are NO essential carbs. The body has ways to produce ALL the glucose you need. So why eat carbs, unless you WANT to? Nutrients have other sources, and I have never been low enough on any nutrient that my doctors care about. After 20 years of seeing doctors and being tested, my kidneys are still doing great. Lasix, which I take, a diuretic, is a far more dangerous thing for my kidneys, but no damage at all. A1C, blood panel, nutrient levels, and lipid panels, are tested at east every 6 months, so will be repeated in less than 4 months, since I haven't been to doctor for 2 months. Half the tests in a month, the rest 3 months later. I take 16 pills a day, which I am hoping to drop, as well as the Insulin.. WHEN my doctor allows it. Obviously, I am doing this way of eating, because I see POSITIVE results, and would quit, if it was doing anything my doctor was concerned about. My doctors, especially my cardiologists, LOVE Keto or lower carb. Being in ketosis is good for me, they say, as long as I don't cheat enough to cause cravings, and go off plan.. basically, be consistent, or find something else.
Last of all, is the comments about how YOU wouldn't or couldn't do this.. Then don't. I am not suggesting you do so. Eat what works for you. Why would I care about anyone else's opinion here. I didn't ask for it. I simply said I AM doing this. I appreciate support, or well-intentioned questions, but if I started this with weak enough convictions, that you could talk me out of it, with a post, I would likely have never started it. I wish you well eating whatever you eat, but I am not YOU. I don't do well eating carbs, and I don't really like any carbs, other than the tiny amount in eggs. I love eggs. I eat 5-6 a day, and my cholesterol is 123, my LDL, and triglycerides are about 70-80, and my HDL was 42 the last time it was tested.. I know some people see rapid increases in TChol with eggs.. I don't.
I will just ignore the negative comments, and assume you mean well, but you are wasting your time. I will stay on this, or quit, based on results, and nothing else.. with obvious input from my doctors. It is not as big a jump as most people would find it, since I already did LC, but I hope to be more consistent, and HAPPIER, without having to force myself to eat a few veggies, to make others feel more comfortable, when I talk about my meals.
I get that most people like carbs. I really don't. I don't miss them, at all. Which is why I decided to do this, but I do realize that 95% of people would not do well on this. They would never stick to it. I prefer this over LC. I have done a few test runs at this, and this is simply me jumping in completely, not a random decision to eat this way, because it sounded cool, or I feel for some promise of better than average results.
Hope that clears up most of the questions, and you stay to hear what happens for me, along the way.
I don't understand why you don't just do low carb again.
I mean, I'd prefer not to floss my teeth, and I wouldn't miss the nightly ritual of flossing, but I do it anyway.
There are so many vegetables and ways to prepare them that I struggle to get that someone can't be happy with ANY of them.
And what about fruit? Berries are low carb.8 -
Now that you have explained it this makes sense to me why you eat this way. I am curious if you will lose weight with this amount of calories...i hope you will report back. I guess if you are losing weight now it is water right? I wish you the best.0
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I don't know why anyone is concerned about me eating a certain way. We all eat different diets. I could understand if I was asking for advice, but I wasn't. I simply said I AM going to do this. I may fail in the long run, but that's OK, if it happens. It won't affect you, so why does anyone feel the need to ask WHY I chose to do this.
The answer is, because it sounded like the perfect diet, and I want to do it. It's no different than you saying.. I plan to try eating the SAD. I might not recommend that, but if you decide to do it, I'm not going to ask you why.. it's pretty obvious that people just pick a diet, and go from there. Sure, they quit 3 months later.. a LOT, but it's weird to ask why I eat a certain diet, or express how hard you think it is for YOU to eat MY diet.
Don't eat ZC.. problem solved.
Actually, I see my regular doctor every 3 months.. as I said, they do half the tests then, and the other half at 6 months. I'll see them in October, and I get my A1C and other bloodwork, and then in January, I will get the lipid panel and some other bloodwork. When I started, I saw both my doctors once a week ( cardiologist too ), was on oxygen at night, and took 29 pills a day. I was tested almost every time I walked through the door.
Over time, I have improved my health. Lost around 100 lbs. had 6 years off my diabetes meds, with 5-5.5 A1C's, and have had 3 ICD's implanted, but over time, have moved my ejection fraction from 16% to 45%.
So I get longer between my doctor visits now. My cardiologist is simply waiting for me to lose weight, so I can replace my heart valve. Until then, he can't do much.. I will need a new ICD in 2023, but that is an easy surgery. My regular doctor, monitors my cholesterol, and A1C, as well as nutrient, and blood panels. My diabetes WAS under control for 6 years, without meds, so while I have seen an increase, and had to go back on meds, and they convinced me to start using basal Insulin at night, it is simply to protect me, until I get back off the meds completely. They have faith that I will drop my A1C back below 6.0, and then I can start getting rid of meds. They aren't really concerned about my blood sugar, as long as they can see it dropping. If I go back, and it's 8.0, then maybe I would need to see them more often, but right now, it's just 3 month visits, because they expect me to get back on track, and I can go back to not poking my fingers 3x a day.. I go back to only getting A1C tests every 6 months, as long as they remain below 5.5. They might be more worried, if I hadn't done it for 6 years already, but they know I know how to do it, so they kind of leave it up to me, as long as I get good results.
I could probably get good results on Keto, or some other low carb plan.. true.. I was on Atkins Induction for years.. under 20 grams of carbs.. but I think it's obvious that while I stuck to it enough to keep blood sugar low, without meds, I did have cheats every so often, and after losing 120 lbs. I have yo-yo'ed in a range.. up to 280, down to 250 etc.. over a cycle of several months, for a few years now.
So I simply was talking to some friends who do ZC, and tried it a few weeks at a time, to see if I liked it, and it felt good. I didn't have to eat some vegetables, so if I spoke about my diet to other people, THEY felt comfortable.
I've decided that since there are NO essential carbohydrates, and others have eaten this way for years, and are fine, I could ditch the carbs, and as long as I don't see anything wrong with my bloodwork, not have to force myself to eat carbs.
I understand that some of YOU may like these foods, and can't imagine NOT eating them, but for me, it is a huge relief, not to have to pretend I want to eat carbs. I'm not promoting this way of eating to anyone. I doubt most people would WANT to eat this way, but I don't want to eat LC either. Anything under 20 grams of carbs a day, would likely get me to where I want to be.
The thing is, I wonder how many of you would be OK with LC, any more than ZC, if I changed my mind. Probably none of you, which is why it's silly to try to make me change what I am doing. It simply shows me that you don't care about what I want, or prefer. You simply want me to eat the way you do, and I start wondering why it matters to you. Your diet means nothing to me. If you said it wasn't working, then I might offer advice, but until then, if you are vegan, and doing well.. awesome! Enjoy.
Until you get tired of " warning " me, I guess I'll just have to read your posts. My hope is you give up, and simply comment on what is happening. I'm actually quite surprised at how many people are responding. I expected most people to just ignore it, and it would be more like my journal, and be a resource for anyone who actually had decided to do ZC... my experience would either help people, or explain how I failed.
Either way, I can't predict how I will be doing in 3 months. So if it helps, just think of this as an experiment. Maybe I will fail miserably, and make some of you happy.
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There's nothing wrong with experimenting and no one is unhappy with what you, personally, choose to do.
Quite a few people are concerned with what you PROMOTE.
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callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »russellholtslander1 wrote: »lunch will be a lb. of chicken thighs.. skin & bone included.
youre going to eat the bones?
mmmm yummy.
Delicious!
thats not what OP said though...
you know me and that i live on a farm. you know im not going to let good bones go to waste. but im not going to EAT bones. use them, but not EAT them....
I’ve boiled chicken and turkey bones long enough for them to completely disintegrate.
Probably won’t work for beef or lamb.
But ya. I get what you’re saying.1 -
russellholtslander1 wrote: »The thing is, I wonder how many of you would be OK with LC, any more than ZC, if I changed my mind.
I'm okay with you (or others) eating however they want. Who cares? People have different preferences.
I do see a big difference, from an overall health and nutrition standpoint between LC (even keto) and ZC. IMO, keto can be done in a very healthy way (and obv same with LC more generally). I often eat LC and have tried keto, and ate lots of fatty fish, other seafood, a variety of meats (mostly not a lot of sausage or bacon, but occasionally those too), as many non starchy veg (and lower carb starchy veg like winter squash and turnips) as I could fit, and generally lots of sources of healthy fats like olives, olive oil, avocados, avocado oil, nuts and seeds, etc. Also eggs, which I enjoy, and some dairy. Typical day when trying keto was often something like 2 egg omelet with spinach and broccoli and feta and avocado on the side, huge salad with chicken or steak on it, some nuts or seeds, and a bunch of different veg, topped with a homemade vinaigrette of olive oil and vinegar, and then salmon with maybe a lemon butter sauce and a few kinds of veg. The only issue I have with that way of eating (which agreed with me, but I did miss some of the other carbs I like, like fruit and potatoes (which fit in fine in smaller portions on other LC plans).
I know ZC is really trendy now, and I know some will disagree with me, but I personally think it's important to eat a variety of plant foods (including fats from plants like nuts and seeds and so on).
But again, I'm cool with you doing whatever, and am not going to heckle you about your diet. I just think you are wrong to assume people see no difference between LC and ZC.9 -
I just have one question. How do you get enough fiber on 0-5 carbs to allow your digestive tract to function?10
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I think most people can understand difference between LC, even keto, and zero carb
And if you start a thread, people are free to comment, if you want a journal which everyone ignores, start a blog or a private diary.
Don't want comments - don't start a public thread: problem solved.
Not sure what comments you expect about 'what is happening' - so far, not much, you are only on day 2.18 -
foreverslim1111 wrote: »I just have one question. How do you get enough fiber on 0-5 carbs to allow your digestive tract to function?
Those of us who have been carnivore for years know fully well that fiber is only necessary to process plant foods. When eating only meat, there is no need for fiber. There is often less waste volume, but this is different than being constipated or "backed up."1 -
Results for day 2: I lost 2.8 lbs. So far 7 lbs. My blood sugar reading for yesterday were 113, 133,and 116. This morning, it was 126.. so still a bit higher than I would like, but since I am not eating many carbs, there isn't much I can do. So I am 273.6. I took some pictures of me, but my new phone is giving me issues when I try to transfer to my computer. Maybe someone younger can figure it out for me.
Since I only get 4 grams of carbs from my eggs.. I get NO fiber. This isn't a problem for me. I have been eating mostly LC for a decade, under 20 gms. of carbs, under 5 gms. of fiber. What you really want to know, is if I get constipated. Not once in all the years that I have rarely had much fiber. The only other issue I might be concerned about are things which could happen, IF I had trouble with constipation. So those aren't a problem either. Diabetes mgmt. from more fiber, is something I am doing without fiber.. as is weight mgmt.
It makes sense that since there are NO essential carbohydrates, and fiber is a carbohydrate, that it is also NOT essential. Most people like carbs, and get fiber when they eat carbs, but that is a choice, not a requirement.
Thanks for the concern, but I do fine without fiber. In fact, when I do eat fiber, I get cramps, and feel unwell. Probably temporary effect, and I would adjust, but never had the same issue, cutting fiber. The truth is that back before 2010, when I ate more carbs, I didn't eat much fiber then, either.. just lots of carbs. Only on LC, when I added carbs, did it include more fiber, because when I do add carbs, it's now veggies, not pizza. I think most people eat well below the RDA for fiber, but they do so, on a diet people think is normal, even if they do so in an unhealthy way. Anyways, the change isn't that drastic, since I didn't leap from the SAD to ZC. I worked my way up to trying ZC, after years of cutting carbs, and other plans.. so these issues came up long ago, and were answered.
Breakfast was 6 eggs and 1/2 a stick of butter. Lunch is 1.35 lbs of whole chicken thighs baked, and dinner is a 9 oz. thin sirloin tip steak and 1/4 stick of butter. 2,505 calories.. 1% carbs, 24% protein, and 75% fat.
Wunderkind: I do not PROMOTE anything. Everyone here talks about the diet they consume, but no one thinks they are promoting anything. So why do you assume I am promoting anything? I am simply talking about my experience, while trying out a way of eating. The same as anyone else. Don't panic. ZC is NOT going to explode, based on this one thread. No one is going to start ZC, based on whatever happens to me.
Have a great day people.3 -
russellholtslander1 wrote: »...Breakfast was 6 eggs and 1/2 a stick of butter. Lunch is 1.35 lbs of whole chicken thighs baked, and dinner is a 9 oz. thin sirloin tip steak and 1/4 stick of butter. 2,505 calories.. 1% carbs, 24% protein, and 75% fat.
Sitting here picturing my cardiologist's face if I told him I ate 3/4 stick butter in a day...17 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Yes, there are quite a few carnivores. Some of us have been doing this for years.
@T1DCarnivoreRunner: What are your thoughts on the importance of including organ meats?3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Yes, there are quite a few carnivores. Some of us have been doing this for years.
@T1DCarnivoreRunner: What are your thoughts on the importance of including organ meats?
There are many who say that organs are necessary because they contain more micronutrients, but I have never seen any evidence of that. To the contrary, I have seen evidence that beef muscle meat contains more than the RDA of micronutrients except vitamin C, for which the RDA can be argued is too high for carnivores because we get better uptake of what we do get. This is also why many opponents use the go-to line "OMG, carnivores are gonna get scurvy!" It's because Vit C is the only lacking micronutrient, based on RDA's. The counter argument is that carnivores have better uptake due to lower insulin levels (Vit C and insulin use same channels for uptake). There are lots of carnivores that have done it for years and decades, with zero cases of scurvy... so I'm not all that worried.
As to my own opinion? I'm sure my ancestors evolved using the entire animal and it won't likely hurt to include some organ meats... I can't stand tripe / intestines and some other stuff, but will gladly add some liver periodically. It probably isn't required, but can't hurt to add some of those nutrient rich organs if you don't mind eating them.1 -
Actually, I was doing LC when I thought I was going to have to have emergency heart valve surgery back in 2016. During the primary ( politics ), I ate terribly, going out to lunch with the kids I worked with. I was up to 304 lbs. again. and spent 3 days at my local hospital, which puts me on the " diabetic " diet, then gives me large doses of Insulin to drop my blood glucose, after they make sure it is elevated.
Then I was driven down to a specialist in Detroit for another 13 days, and got a second set of cardiologists, who are better at doing heart valve surgeries.. one of the 3 best in the region, and when they asked me what I wanted to eat, which was a new experience, I said normally ate low carb, but hadn't been doing so. They let me eat real eggs, with real butter, although they did make me eat turkey sausage. My meals were things like chicken, and green beans. When I spoke to my main cardiologist about diet, he said that he wished every one of his patients was eating a high fat diet, because those were the only ones seeing health improvements. He didn't care if I ate ANY carbs, said the health benefits outweighed any risk, which could be monitored by my regular doctors.. which I do. My heart valve improved as I lost weight, and instead of emergency surgery, they say the can wait until I hit 210 or less.
They are perfectly fine with me eating 75-80% fat, from butter, mayo, tallow, lard.. whatever.
Now, I have my normal doctors, and they of course, recommend the SAD, but my specialists.. the cardiologists, which is my major health issue think that as long as I stick to it, very LCHF is my best option available. They DO know about what I eat. I didn't start LC, without speaking with my doctors, much less ZC, which is only a little bit more restrictive than what I have been eating when on plan. The only issue now, is consistency.. if I can't stay on it, and reach a healthy weight, then I probably shouldn't stay on this.
If your tests that your cardiologist is giving you, are improving, then whatever you are doing is working, kshama200, and that is great for you, I found something that is working for me, and by every measure my cardiologist can test, is positive. They love my results.
I track my menu every day, and give my doctors a copy with every doctor visit, along with charts showing my weight, BP, and 3 blood sugar readings per day. Include a not on how I feel. In other words, I am not sneaking around on my doctors, who are unaware of what I am doing.. that would make having doctors useless.4 -
russellholtslander1 wrote: »Actually, I was doing LC when I thought I was going to have to have emergency heart valve surgery back in 2016. During the primary ( politics ), I ate terribly, going out to lunch with the kids I worked with. I was up to 304 lbs. again. and spent 3 days at my local hospital, which puts me on the " diabetic " diet, then gives me large doses of Insulin to drop my blood glucose, after they make sure it is elevated.
Then I was driven down to a specialist in Detroit for another 13 days, and got a second set of cardiologists, who are better at doing heart valve surgeries.. one of the 3 best in the region, and when they asked me what I wanted to eat, which was a new experience, I said normally ate low carb, but hadn't been doing so. They let me eat real eggs, with real butter, although they did make me eat turkey sausage. My meals were things like chicken, and green beans. When I spoke to my main cardiologist about diet, he said that he wished every one of his patients was eating a high fat diet, because those were the only ones seeing health improvements. He didn't care if I ate ANY carbs, said the health benefits outweighed any risk, which could be monitored by my regular doctors.. which I do. My heart valve improved as I lost weight, and instead of emergency surgery, they say the can wait until I hit 210 or less.
They are perfectly fine with me eating 75-80% fat, from butter, mayo, tallow, lard.. whatever.
Now, I have my normal doctors, and they of course, recommend the SAD, but my specialists.. the cardiologists, which is my major health issue think that as long as I stick to it, very LCHF is my best option available. They DO know about what I eat. I didn't start LC, without speaking with my doctors, much less ZC, which is only a little bit more restrictive than what I have been eating when on plan. The only issue now, is consistency.. if I can't stay on it, and reach a healthy weight, then I probably shouldn't stay on this.
If your tests that your cardiologist is giving you, are improving, then whatever you are doing is working, kshama200, and that is great for you, I found something that is working for me, and by every measure my cardiologist can test, is positive. They love my results.
I track my menu every day, and give my doctors a copy with every doctor visit, along with charts showing my weight, BP, and 3 blood sugar readings per day. Include a not on how I feel. In other words, I am not sneaking around on my doctors, who are unaware of what I am doing.. that would make having doctors useless.
Low carb can and does work to facilitate a satiating effect which has allowed you to be more successful than the average patient and your Drs. recognize this because it gets old watching your patients increasing in weight and having to up their dosage of insulin year after year. Good for them and you but most of your improvements can be attributed to weight loss. Low/er carb works for me like a charm as well. I believe your Dr. didn't actually want you to forgo all plant material and go carnivore and was more tongue and cheek when they said I don't care if you eat any carbs. Anyway I hope you continue to be successful.6 -
Three days down. I've lost 4.2 lbs., 2.8 lbs., and now 1.2 lbs.. down to 272.4. Yesterday, my blood sugars were slightly out of whack. Morning was 126, and I had eggs and butter, and it was 151 before lunch.. pretty high. I ate 1.35 lbs. of chicken thighs, and it was 147 before dinner.
The only explanation could be that when I filled my pills Sunday for the week. I put my Januvia in the morning, instead of my Glimiperide. Usually I like the Januvia at night, because it gives me longer coverage, but not a huge drop, like Glimiperide does, because I also take 15 units of basal Insulin at night. I worry about low blood sugars. So maybe I didn't get the big drop from the Glimiperide. Januvia tends to not work as well for me, but works all day long.
Anyways, it is something I will need to watch. I'm hoping to get back off meds, and haven't had any carbs but eggs in 3 days, so they normally would be down below 100. We'll see if it drops now that my meds are being taken at the right time for each. Maybe it's a 1 day issue. The only other thing that might be an issue is that my protein is much higher on ZC.. protein can be converted to glucose, BUT, it shouldn't make more than the body needs, so shouldn't spike the blood sugar, certainly not above 125.
It has only been 3 days, so we'll see what happens in the next 3 days, before I actually do anything, besides continue what I have been doing.
Today, I once again had 6 large eggs, cooked in a 1/2 stick of butter. Lunch will be 3 cans of tuna, mixed with 6 Tbsp. of mayo. Dinner is a 9 oz. sirloin tip steak, cooked in 2 Tbsp. butter.
In 3 days, I have a 3-4 day trip. So I will be driving a few hours on Friday, then eating there that night, Saturday, and Sunday( just breakfast & dinner ), and then Monday, I'll have lunch and dinner.. since I will be coming back in the morning. Should be a nice test to see if I can follow the plan when not at home. There are 2 steakhouses within 1/4 of a mile of the hotel.. one is in the parking lot. The hotel serves real eggs, and beef sausage for breakfast, but I already called a local diner there, and they say I can buy 6 eggs over-medium for $6, if I don't like the hotel breakfast bar. I called a few national chains in the area, and they said I could pay for 2-3 meals to get my eggs. I will NOT be using them. So eggs w/ sausage or bacon ( or both ) for breakfast, and BIG steaks for dinner. Maybe some 1/4 lb. patties from McDonald's, if that isn't enough.
Hoping to be in the 260's by the trip, because there is going to be a lot of walking on this trip. I will take my testing supplies, and test my blood sugar twice a day, but won't have a weigh-in, until I get back.1 -
russellholtslander1 wrote: »Now, I have my normal doctors, and they of course, recommend the SAD
It would be extremely unusual for doctors to recommend the SAD. Are you conflating the SAD and typical healthy eating guidelines? (Like https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-eating-plate/)9
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