Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Are harsh straightforward reality checks good?
Replies
-
An acquaintance recently, very emphatically, told me she could really see that I’d gained weight since the start of the pandemic. It threw me for a loop. Why did she think I wanted to know what she thought? She doesn’t know that I’ve lost 10 lbs. and been trying hard to lose weight. She is not very diplomatic when speaking with people. She’s often inappropriate.
On the other hand, My daughter expressed concern for my health that I’ve gained the same weight, and it really made me think about it. I listened to her. I didn’t like the conversation, but I didn’t take offence. I feel a bit guilty that she’s so worried about me. I love her.
Most people should be quiet. I know what I am, and what I should do.4 -
It depends on the person, also probably gender related as well. But I can't think of a single instance
where someone told me something true and direct that didn't help me later down the line.
When I think back on it, I realize I should've listened to them sooner.3 -
I wish someone had, but to be honest, one doc said something dismissive to me and it did really get me thinking. I asked about my weight (don't think I was at my biggest but obviously overweight) and he was healthy and thin and said something like, "I'm sure heart disease will eventually kill you, like the majority of us...".
I was kind of looking for a prod or something to tell me to lose the weight and get in better shape. Nothing.
I have a feeling that many docs are just so jaded at this point because they see so many people that either get easily offended or flat out won't listen, so why bother.
My present doctor (who I started seeing after I lost the weight and got in pretty good shape) only sees patients that take initiative and work to keep healthy. He will literally drop you as a patient if you're a "give me a pill to fix me" type of patient. He told me he nearly stopped practicing prior to opening up his own practice. Told me about a patient that was Type II Diabetic and he counseled that patient that he should give up all the soda he was drinking or he could lose his leg. The patient said, "take the leg, you're not taking my soda...". WTF!
I can imagine being a doc these days or a nutritional counselor is trying to say the least. My Daughter is dating a guy going to Medical school. Super nice guy, but I'm thinking, why would you want to?9 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »I wish someone had, but to be honest, one doc said something dismissive to me and it did really get me thinking. I asked about my weight (don't think I was at my biggest but obviously overweight) and he was healthy and thin and said something like, "I'm sure heart disease will eventually kill you, like the majority of us...".
I was kind of looking for a prod or something to tell me to lose the weight and get in better shape. Nothing.
I have a feeling that many docs are just so jaded at this point because they see so many people that either get easily offended or flat out won't listen, so why bother.
My present doctor (who I started seeing after I lost the weight and got in pretty good shape) only sees patients that take initiative and work to keep healthy. He will literally drop you as a patient if you're a "give me a pill to fix me" type of patient. He told me he nearly stopped practicing prior to opening up his own practice. Told me about a patient that was Type II Diabetic and he counseled that patient that he should give up all the soda he was drinking or he could lose his leg. The patient said, "take the leg, you're not taking my soda...". WTF!
I can imagine being a doc these days or a nutritional counselor is trying to say the least. My Daughter is dating a guy going to Medical school. Super nice guy, but I'm thinking, why would you want to?
I agree that your doctor should be straightforward about your weight. There is actually a whole thread on this topic a few threads down from here called "Does your doctor comment on your weight". It's your doctor's job to help you monitor your health, and maintaining a healthy weight is a big part of that. I'm not sure why people get offended when their doctor brings it up.
However, the OP of this thread was lamenting that no one in his life (friends, family) had said anything. I don't think most people would react well to those types of unsolicited comments.2 -
fatfish420 wrote: »This is more a musing of mine as I look back at what lead me to my current weight issues and one thing that always sticks out is the number of people who would tell me I still looked good or wasn't that overweight. these compliments came when I was well over 300 pounds but stopped shortly before getting to my peak of 420. I have wondered if someone had just taken the time to tell 20 something your old me you are gaining way too much weight would currently 32 year old me be a lot healthier.
So the thesis question is when it comes to people's health should we be a bit more blunt and honest about their weight gain?
It wouldn't work. I often wonder that myself when I allowed myself to get to 372, and how many people gave me that 'harsh' dose of reality, but all it did was annoy me. People can harp on you about your weight, but I guarantee, unless you're receptive to it, it won't matter. The harshest dose of reality comes from a health scare, as was my case. I vowed never again, and I wish I had KNOWN in my teens and 20's what I know now. I would have never gotten to that point.
5 -
I do not believe in giving false compliments but I also don't believe every time we give someone blunt and constructive criticism that they will be willing to accept that criticism. I think this all depends on the relationship between the two people and how a person would respond to the blunt truth. I have a friend of mine who is highly over weight. I have been telling her about my weight loss journey. Showing her meals I have made and she has said to me a time or two that she should be doing this too. I am hoping that when she sees how easy this can be then maybe she will jump on board. I do not think being blunt with her would help at all. I believe she is a bit depressed. Blunt is not the way to go with a depressed person sometimes. So I do believe it depends on the person. My friend knows...but my bluntness is not going to make her want to make changes.6
-
Every once in a while I need a "straightforward reality check." But when someone offers one make sure you feel it's valid. People can have their own agendas and tell you something that isn't reality based.
In January, mom said I was "fat" and better lose weight NOW. I needed that push. Too much pushing and I'll get aggravated. "Tough love," in moderation, helps me.2 -
I think there are very few times or places that this can be done with any positive outcome. I am currently at my highest weight and recently went to a family reunion. I know that I felt defensive and ready to pounce if anyone had dared mention my weight or expressed "concern" or "encouragement." Even though I KNOW that I am at an unhealthy weight, that I don't look or feel my best, and in fact I DO plan to do something about it. But I definitely did NOT want to discuss it with anyone there.6
-
Everyone has different motivators so maybe this works for some people. For me, heck NO. I know I'm fat. I don't need anyone to tell me. It just makes me feel bad about myself and makes me want to rebel against healthy habits because my brain goes "they can't tell me what to do!" even though I know it only hurts me in the long run. "Tough love" does nothing to motivate me. My family harped on my weight when I was growing up and it never did anything but make me hate myself and then eat more because I didn't care about my health. When you hate yourself, you don't care about your health. Even when the intent is to help, criticizing a person can often backfire. Many overweight people have low self esteem already and getting raked over the coals about their weight from "well meaning" people can get really tiring.3
-
"the number of people who would tell me I still looked good"
I think this is the problem right here. People too often frame obesity as a problem of looks. There are obese people who are considered to be attractive. But it's an issue of health, not an issue of vanity, and too often the two are conflated.
My question is, why do you feel that you needed other people to inform you that being 300-420 pounds was too much? Were you not aware of it otherwise, despite the existence of tools such as the BMI scale and the effects it must have had on your mobility, etc.? And, if you were in that level of denial, would you not have responded negatively to anyone who gave you this "reality check"? I think there's a piece missing of the psychology involved here.
Also in my experience the answer is you can't convince someone of anything they aren't ready to be convinced of. My husband used to be obese and I would give him the "reality check," saying that I didn't want him to go to an early grave, that it was concerning that he would want to sit down after we walked for a few minutes, etc. He would get mad at me and accuse me of being mean for saying these things. He eventually realized just how overweight he was when he saw some photos of himself at an event and was embarrassed how large he was. He lost 50 pounds after that and he realized I was right about how much it was affecting his health and energy levels. Even now when he gains some back, he recognizes that he should lose it again.
I do wonder though whether we as a society need to implement the "reality check" more. In many Asian countries like China, Japan, and South Korea, it is normalized to be blunt about people being overweight. These countries also have some of the lowest obesity rates in the developed world, around 3 to 4%. The US has a 42% obesity rate. So their approach must be working even if it isn't PC. Would we rather be nice to people or would we rather they live a longer and healthier life? I don't think that our normalization of obesity as a society has done anyone any favors because it allows people to just bury themselves in denial instead of facing the problem.6 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »I wish someone had, but to be honest, one doc said something dismissive to me and it did really get me thinking. I asked about my weight (don't think I was at my biggest but obviously overweight) and he was healthy and thin and said something like, "I'm sure heart disease will eventually kill you, like the majority of us...".
I was kind of looking for a prod or something to tell me to lose the weight and get in better shape. Nothing.
I have a feeling that many docs are just so jaded at this point because they see so many people that either get easily offended or flat out won't listen, so why bother.
My present doctor (who I started seeing after I lost the weight and got in pretty good shape) only sees patients that take initiative and work to keep healthy. He will literally drop you as a patient if you're a "give me a pill to fix me" type of patient. He told me he nearly stopped practicing prior to opening up his own practice. Told me about a patient that was Type II Diabetic and he counseled that patient that he should give up all the soda he was drinking or he could lose his leg. The patient said, "take the leg, you're not taking my soda...". WTF!
I can imagine being a doc these days or a nutritional counselor is trying to say the least. My Daughter is dating a guy going to Medical school. Super nice guy, but I'm thinking, why would you want to?
I agree that your doctor should be straightforward about your weight. There is actually a whole thread on this topic a few threads down from here called "Does your doctor comment on your weight". It's your doctor's job to help you monitor your health, and maintaining a healthy weight is a big part of that. I'm not sure why people get offended when their doctor brings it up.
However, the OP of this thread was lamenting that no one in his life (friends, family) had said anything. I don't think most people would react well to those types of unsolicited comments.
People get offended when you tell them their blood pressure is high or that they need to take their meds as prescribed.
Generally people are quite stressed about their own health, scared, and not usually in the most open, emotionally receptive state in a medical environment. That's why we call it "white coat syndrome."
Overall, people can only receive information they are prepared to receive. That's why there's an entire discipline out there design to recognize and help move people through states of readiness.
The most resourceful doctors take the time to study how to do this.3 -
As a trainer, I have to be harsh and straight forward many times. I mean, that's what they hired me for.........accountability and assistance. I'll always use the approach of positive re enforcent first and foremost, but if they are complaining about lack of progress, then I have to be upfront and honest and not really worry too much about feelings, but giving them logical reasoning as to why they aren't reaching expectations.
No one likes to hear about their short comings. But many times people are unaware of them and they never get fixed.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
4 -
As a trainer, I have to be harsh and straight forward many times. I mean, that's what they hired me for.........accountability and assistance. I'll always use the approach of positive re enforcent first and foremost, but if they are complaining about lack of progress, then I have to be upfront and honest and not really worry too much about feelings, but giving them logical reasoning as to why they aren't reaching expectations.
No one likes to hear about their short comings. But many times people are unaware of them and they never get fixed.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
If someone hired you to do it, they literally know their primary shortcoming - that they need someone else to point out what they're doing wrong because they don't see it.
This is markedly different than aunt Sally taking the opportunity to tell someone their fat.2 -
As a trainer, I have to be harsh and straight forward many times. I mean, that's what they hired me for.........accountability and assistance. I'll always use the approach of positive reinforcement first and foremost, but if they are complaining about lack of progress, then I have to be upfront and honest and not really worry too much about feelings, but giving them logical reasoning as to why they aren't reaching expectations.
No one likes to hear about their short comings. But many times people are unaware of them and they never get fixed.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Right on the money because logical reasoning is not harsh straightforward reality. There's a big difference. Who's reality? Harsh anything is usually mean and nasty without any filters. People won't go back for more of that.0 -
This is something I struggle with. My daughter is very overweight and I say nothing. She sometimes says she is fat and I just say something like “I know it is frustrating when you want to lose and can’t” or I just say nothing. I don’t deny it but I see no reason to affirm what she knows. I am never sure of the right thing to say.2
-
This is something I struggle with. My daughter is very overweight and I say nothing. She sometimes says she is fat and I just say something like “I know it is frustrating when you want to lose and can’t” or I just say nothing. I don’t deny it but I see no reason to affirm what she knows. I am never sure of the right thing to say.
Could you ask a child psychologist how best to handle this?0 -
This is something I struggle with. My daughter is very overweight and I say nothing. She sometimes says she is fat and I just say something like “I know it is frustrating when you want to lose and can’t” or I just say nothing. I don’t deny it but I see no reason to affirm what she knows. I am never sure of the right thing to say.
Could you ask a child psychologist how best to handle this?
I'm assuming her daughter is an adult, not a child.
It doesn't sound like her daughter is in denial about her weight, so the mother is correct in staying neutral unless asked for help.
2 -
I. I think your cause and effect is wrong on the Japan example.
It's normal to say something bluntly because it's rare.
It isn't rare because it's called out.
It's rare because they have a very different diet and lifestyle culturally.0 -
RaquelFit2 wrote: »Every once in a while I need a "straightforward reality check." But when someone offers one make sure you feel it's valid. People can have their own agendas and tell you something that isn't reality based.
In January, mom said I was "fat" and better lose weight NOW. I needed that push. Too much pushing and I'll get aggravated. "Tough love," in moderation, helps me.
I agree with this. A straightforward push is sometimes necessary but you need to be in the headspace to receive it. Otherwise I feel that I just dig in deeper.2 -
@fitmattnotfatmatt Understood and appreciated. I'd take logical reasoning from a trainer or fitness pro before I'd take it from a close family member. You just need more 'willpower' and other multi-crap that family members say to one another. If they can't do it then I just tune them out. Show me or all of the blather in the world won't convince me. Anyone can hide behind words but the results don't lie.1
-
A family member's motives are different. They might be surprised or worried about your general well-being. A trainer is going to talk about what goals and objectives do you have and are decisions being made to get closer or further away from them. If a trainer tells me, that's not getting you close to your goal and look here's objective data to support it i.e. weight/measurements, that's pretty straightforward and correct. Sometimes, when you get close to some trainers, they want it almost as bad as you do and they get frustrated when you aren't in alignment with that.0
-
Hiawassee88 wrote: »@fitmattnotfatmatt Understood and appreciated. I'd take logical reasoning from a trainer or fitness pro before I'd take it from a close family member. You just need more 'willpower' and other multi-crap that family members say to one another. If they can't do it then I just tune them out. Show me or all of the blather in the world won't convince me.
Interesting thing about willpower, it is an exhaustible resource for people. You need to switch it up to replenish it otherwise you run out until you give your decision making a rest.1 -
@fitmattnotfatmatt 🤠 Motivation and willpower are limited resources. Momentum will take you much further down the road than those two ever will. Got constant stops and restarts? Constantly restarting causes burnout.
We don't need a new beginning and there's no such thing as the Finish Line. Our very next meal is our new beginning. There's always another meal coming around the corner. I'm never starting over again and I mean it. Long term weight stability requires focus until new cognitive behavior skills take hold. It doesn't happen overnight and it might take more than two years. They take longer than 21 days or 6 weeks.
If you can't hold onto it then I'm not interested. I've had enough temporary bandaids to last me a lifetime. Show me the results and show me the way. I simply haven't got the time for anything else.1 -
Hiawassee88 wrote: »@fitmattnotfatmatt 🤠 Motivation and willpower are limited resources. Momentum will take you much further down the road than those two ever will. Got constant stops and restarts? Constantly restarting causes burnout.
We don't need a new beginning and there's no such thing as the Finish Line. Our very next meal is our new beginning. There's always another meal coming around the corner. I'm never starting over again and I mean it. Long term weight stability requires focus until new cognitive behavior skills take hold. It doesn't happen overnight and it might take more than two years. They take longer than 21 days or 6 weeks.
If you can't hold onto it then I'm not interested. I've had enough temporary bandaids to last me a lifetime. Show me the results and show me the way. I simply haven't got the time for anything else.
I can learn a lot from you!1 -
@fitmattnotfatmatt I've been sitting outside in my rig because there's another major storm. I might have to make a run for it....more roads washing out. I was thinking about this the entire time.
Matt, I'm a brat. 🤣 I can't handle anymore diets or another temporary fix. I drew my line in the sand and I stand firm. It saddens me to see others work so hard and then eat it all back. I have empathy and compassion for them but that's why others are paid to help pull them back UP. I find it exhausting.
I came here to find the holy grail and antidote to dieting blather and foaming at the mouth about weight. I found it, I really did. Two words. Portion control. Learning how to moderate portions while enjoying every food you love is the pathway to long term weight stability.
That's all I've ever wanted and anyone can have it. I found some mentors here that have shown me the way. They're real and too legit to quit. It sounds so simple but it's not always easy. Finely tuned marketing has messed with our heads. It took me a long time to unwind that thinking. I lingered long on childhood when we never gave a thought to the meals placed before us. We were too busy enjoying our school career and friends to worry about every morsel we ate. No one was dieting or suffering with angst over their food portions.
I wanted that back and come hell or high water, no one will take it from me ever again. I'll be in my rig if you need me.
2 -
@fitmattnotfatmatt 🌲 I believe in taking what we need from a bunch of different sources. If it doesn't come naturally, we need to continue using the cattle prod on ourselves. The minute we give up the fight, it's human nature to start coasting. We fall back on our insight based awareness which is not the whole picture. No one has all of the answers.
Empathetic friends, a coach or witness can hold space while we gain clarity for reaching our goals. They can offer us insightful reflections. No one has to live in our body. We all need to feel safe inside of our bodies.
When someone is harsh, our bodies and minds shut down. We go into sympathetic overdrive with harsh criticism. Harsh anything creates another disconnect for the brain. Feeling alone during the weight loss process is lonely. Moving positively away from self-loathing and self-criticism is the most security promoting thing we can do.
Daily living is hard enough without having to choose between 'who I am' and 'who others want me to be'. Our brains abandon ship during distress. We have to keep fighting the good fight.
My brain is good at winging it and I love to fly by the seat of my pants. Detailed plans and programs make me laugh like a hyena. 😂 It's a good thing I don't work at NASA. I'd figure out a way to bring 'em home but it probably wouldn't be in a straight line.
Matt. I believe we need to make everything uniquely ours. We need to believe it's our idea and take what works for us. Use it. Own it. Fight for it.1 -
Well I've had clients where I've had to tell them that if they don't get their *kitten* into the gym regularly and work on their fitness and losing the excess poundage they need to, they're likely not going to be around in a few years. But that's about as harsh as it gets.Hiawassee88 wrote: »As a trainer, I have to be harsh and straight forward many times. I mean, that's what they hired me for.........accountability and assistance. I'll always use the approach of positive reinforcement first and foremost, but if they are complaining about lack of progress, then I have to be upfront and honest and not really worry too much about feelings, but giving them logical reasoning as to why they aren't reaching expectations.
No one likes to hear about their short comings. But many times people are unaware of them and they never get fixed.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Right on the money because logical reasoning is not harsh straightforward reality. There's a big difference. Who's reality? Harsh anything is usually mean and nasty without any filters. People won't go back for more of that.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
1 -
Well I've had clients where I've had to tell them that if they don't get their *kitten* into the gym regularly and work on their fitness and losing the excess poundage they need to, they're likely not going to be around in a few years. But that's about as harsh as it gets.Hiawassee88 wrote: »As a trainer, I have to be harsh and straight forward many times. I mean, that's what they hired me for.........accountability and assistance. I'll always use the approach of positive reinforcement first and foremost, but if they are complaining about lack of progress, then I have to be upfront and honest and not really worry too much about feelings, but giving them logical reasoning as to why they aren't reaching expectations.
No one likes to hear about their short comings. But many times people are unaware of them and they never get fixed.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Right on the money because logical reasoning is not harsh straightforward reality. There's a big difference. Who's reality? Harsh anything is usually mean and nasty without any filters. People won't go back for more of that.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Same. I've told patients incredibly harsh things to get them to snap out of complacency.
However, we are professionals they are paying for our advice. By default it's expected that what we say is for the benefit of the person paying us.
Even then, if we are good at our jobs, we don't use such harshness unless we've assessed that the dynamic will benefit from it.
As I said from the beginning, it all comes down to the context and what the listener perceives as the intent of the message.
If my PT says I need to get my sh--+ together and do my exercises or else I'm going to end up looking like Quasimodo with a full on hunch back by the time I'm 50, I know she's looking out for me.
If Karen from finance says that to me, she can shove it because no one asked her opinion.3 -
No. It doesn't help and it isnt a random strangers business. Generally people lose weight when they have the resources to support them.2
-
@ninerbuff The appreciation is on my side of the table. There ain't nothin' harsh about you. We're lucky to have your knowledge. I've learned a great deal from you. Truth.
I have a close relative who's really harsh. He lived during the LBJohnson years. He calls the women in our family, LBJ's. Lard Bu## J's. He'll tell any of them, I see you've really larded UP, again. Harsh. He's a real dream at family reunions.
Trouble is, he's in great shape and he practices what he preaches. At his age, his doctors say they haven't seen anyone like him. He's pretty, too. Handsome sonuvagun.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.5K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 427 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions