Are harsh straightforward reality checks good?

SuzySunshine99 · February 2022

Xerogs wrote: »

Are harsh straightforward reality checks good?

Back in the late 80s early 90s I attended an art school and we were expected to critique others work and have our work critiqued by the instructor and classmates. You really had to have a thick skin because the critiques could be really harsh but if you could take your emotions out of it, there were things worth learning that would improve your work. There were some critiques born our of jealousy or the person was just malcontent so you would have to let those go. They are pretty easy to spot on what is said and how its said.

I went back to school a number of years ago and the critiques were so very different. It was really softball and you had to be really careful to preface constructive criticism with a positive spin every time. I never really saw a student in the past cry or get upset during a critique unlike my most recent college experience where it happened at least 2-3 times a semester. I had one instructor from Russia who would call out students for half-assed work which was always entertaining and reminded me of days past. There is a layer of sensitivity these days where even constructive criticism is viewed as a personal attack. There are a lot of artists out there today learning the hard way or washing out because the real world doesn't hold back.

So are harsh straightforward reality checks good? For me yes they are but I was raised differently than a lot of younger folks today. If you are not used to a harsh critique then maybe they are not for you. I've learned to hold back some unless I really know the person and they are open to constructive criticism. I don't think anyone can be as critical of my work or my weight as I am so I've probably heard it all before but it can be a good reminder to hear it from another. Also you can either take what is said to heart and use it for motivation or not.

I think there is a distinct difference between a critique of your work vs. a critique of your physical appearance. Yes, people can be very emotionally attached to something they have produced, especially a work of art, but it's still different.

I agree with you that people often need to take the emotion out of honest, constructive criticism when it comes to work, sports activities, and creative endeavors.

But, I don't think that unsolicited "constructive criticism" of someone's body or physical traits is ever appropriate. Someone reacting negatively to such criticism is not being overly sensitive. "Unsolicited" being the key word here...if someone ASKS for your honest opinion, then they should be prepared for an honest answer.

Xerogs · February 2022

SuzySunshine99 wrote: »

But, I don't think that unsolicited "constructive criticism" of someone's body or physical traits is ever appropriate. Someone reacting negatively to such criticism is not being overly sensitive. "Unsolicited" being the key word here...if someone ASKS for your honest opinion, then they should be prepared for an honest answer.

Yeah I agree with your statement. Unsolicited criticism isn't really welcome even in art but it happens all the time so its worth learning how to deal with it. Many times its just a troll and the best thing to do is not feed them nor take what they say to heart. It can be very hard to do, I know I've had my fair share of art critics and people who've commented on my appearance as well.

dTedecel · February 2022

I created my own hole to slip into. Alcohol abuse. I would go on a binge for weeks- months- years and the weight would go up and up and up until the next dose of reality would set in. Then it was daily exercise, clean eating and grudges against booze and boozers. Rerun the script over and over again. Then it was back on the wagon and I would post on alcoholism support sites that I had just completed xx sober days. The congratulations would follow from others, but I would have much rather have a kick in the pants than the hugs for slipping.

wunderkindking · February 2022

I'm going to say something that's not popular, but I'm saying it anyway. Since people here are talking about wanting 'harsh, straightforward reality checks' maybe I can provide one.

I feel like people saying 'I need the kick in the pants' 'I need 'reality checks' 'I don't want hugs, I want harsh reality' are not actually saying what they think they are.

I think what they believe they are saying is 'I'm tough and can take it'.

What they are actually saying - to me - is 'let me make my weight/addictions/personal problems everyone else's responsibility'.

You're an adult. If you have a problem with your weight or whatever it's YOUR responsibility to kick YOURSeLF in your own pants. Not blame other people for being *NICE* to you.

cwolfman13 · February 2022

IDK...my wife expressed concern over my health when I was over-fat, but that concern wasn't solely about my weight...weight was only one aspect of the concern. When I was getting fat, nobody needed to tell me I was getting fat. I have a mirror and I could see what I looked like in pictures. When I started the weight loss process I did get some comments in regards to why...I wasn't that fat, etc. But those comments were also from people who were over-fat and frankly being overweight is far more the norm than being healthy and fit and relative to some of those commenters, I wasn't as fat as they were...but I was still obese class I by medical standards and looked the part aesthetically as well.

I was lean, healthy, and fit for most of my life and a competitive athlete for a good chunk of my young life as well. I put on my fat body in my 30s when I settled down with family and career ambitions. Having lived in both worlds, I was never in any kind of denial about what was happening to me and ultimately decided that I preferred my previous lean, healthy, and fit self who was physically capable and all around healthy.

xrj22 · March 2022

I think it depends on who it is coming from. A doctor -- usually OK. Other than that, there are very very few people in my life where I think it would go well. Even though I KNOW that I am overweight and that I felt better and was healthier when I was lower weight and eating healthy. Hearing it from someone else is likely to just re-enforce how much I feel like a failure right now, and not make anything any easier.

Xellercin · March 2022

xrj22 wrote: »

I think it depends on who it is coming from. A doctor -- usually OK. Other than that, there are very very few people in my life where I think it would go well. Even though I KNOW that I am overweight and that I felt better and was healthier when I was lower weight and eating healthy. Hearing it from someone else is likely to just re-enforce how much I feel like a failure right now, and not make anything any easier.

No, not usually.

I can't tell you how many patients I've had get angry at me for telling them that their blood pressure is high.

Like, that's just an objective fact and something I'm legally obligated to express concern about, but nope, somehow I'm a judgemental a-hole for telling them. And GOD FORBID I mention their weight.

HoneyBadger302 · March 2022

IMO, the "is it a good thing" really boils down to the conversation and what that person is asking/talking about. Solicited vs unsolicited conversations/questions.

I'm not going to blow smoke up your you-know-what, but I'm not going to provide unsolicited criticism, either. For example, my mother has always been rather unfit, and has a gazillion reasons, excuses, and jumps through hoops to justify her perspective. I am not going to voluntarily tell her the truth - however - if she is talking to me about it, and ASKS me why she can't lose weight (or whatever), well, she's asked for it, and I will provide her with the answers. I have a background in fitness and nutrition, both personally and through formal study, so I approach it very much from the facts side of things as opposed to the feelings side of things, but she still doesn't like to hear it because she'd rather hear why her justifications are right (even though, in this case, even her doctors are telling her the same thing).

So, it can be a catch 22, but if someone asks, I will provide an honest (nice, but honest) answer. I will also try to provide some ideas on solutions.

Just calling someone out who isn't asking me anything - that I won't do, it's their life and their choices, and they aren't asking me for my input.

fatty2begone · March 2022

Pretty sure if my husband was harsh and truthful, the marriage would have ended in divorce.

I knew I was fat when I crossed that 160ish threshold. My clothes didn't fit, I no longer looked good. That didn't deter me from the climb to 207.

Someone telling me I was fat wouldn't have made a bit of difference. I needed to become fed up with being fat and out of shape. Getting winded climbing the stairs. Struggling to finish a 1 mile walk with the dog.

This is my change, for me, not for anyone other than myself (well maybe my hubby as I would like to live a long life in retirement).

I got fat on my own. I can get fit on my own. Support is nice too!

Machka9 · April 2022

fatfish420 wrote: »

This is more a musing of mine as I look back at what lead me to my current weight issues and one thing that always sticks out is the number of people who would tell me I still looked good or wasn't that overweight. these compliments came when I was well over 300 pounds but stopped shortly before getting to my peak of 420. I have wondered if someone had just taken the time to tell 20 something your old me you are gaining way too much weight would currently 32 year old me be a lot healthier.

So the thesis question is when it comes to people's health should we be a bit more blunt and honest about their weight gain?

I can tell you if someone had mentioned to me, in late 2018, that I was gaining weight, I would have been furious and I would have been a little more than blunt in return.

It would have been an entirely inappropriate comment and would not have had a positive response in any way.

For someone to understand my reaction, someone would have to know my background. If someone doesn't know my background, any such comments are off limits.

Melwillbehealthy · April 2022

An acquaintance recently, very emphatically, told me she could really see that I’d gained weight since the start of the pandemic. It threw me for a loop. Why did she think I wanted to know what she thought? She doesn’t know that I’ve lost 10 lbs. and been trying hard to lose weight. She is not very diplomatic when speaking with people. She’s often inappropriate.
On the other hand, My daughter expressed concern for my health that I’ve gained the same weight, and it really made me think about it. I listened to her. I didn’t like the conversation, but I didn’t take offence. I feel a bit guilty that she’s so worried about me. I love her.
Most people should be quiet. I know what I am, and what I should do.

Mellouk89 · April 2022

It depends on the person, also probably gender related as well. But I can't think of a single instance
where someone told me something true and direct that didn't help me later down the line.

When I think back on it, I realize I should've listened to them sooner.

MikePfirrman · April 2022

I wish someone had, but to be honest, one doc said something dismissive to me and it did really get me thinking. I asked about my weight (don't think I was at my biggest but obviously overweight) and he was healthy and thin and said something like, "I'm sure heart disease will eventually kill you, like the majority of us...".

I was kind of looking for a prod or something to tell me to lose the weight and get in better shape. Nothing.

I have a feeling that many docs are just so jaded at this point because they see so many people that either get easily offended or flat out won't listen, so why bother.

My present doctor (who I started seeing after I lost the weight and got in pretty good shape) only sees patients that take initiative and work to keep healthy. He will literally drop you as a patient if you're a "give me a pill to fix me" type of patient. He told me he nearly stopped practicing prior to opening up his own practice. Told me about a patient that was Type II Diabetic and he counseled that patient that he should give up all the soda he was drinking or he could lose his leg. The patient said, "take the leg, you're not taking my soda...". WTF!

I can imagine being a doc these days or a nutritional counselor is trying to say the least. My Daughter is dating a guy going to Medical school. Super nice guy, but I'm thinking, why would you want to?

SuzySunshine99 · April 2022

MikePfirrman wrote: »

I wish someone had, but to be honest, one doc said something dismissive to me and it did really get me thinking. I asked about my weight (don't think I was at my biggest but obviously overweight) and he was healthy and thin and said something like, "I'm sure heart disease will eventually kill you, like the majority of us...".

I was kind of looking for a prod or something to tell me to lose the weight and get in better shape. Nothing.

I have a feeling that many docs are just so jaded at this point because they see so many people that either get easily offended or flat out won't listen, so why bother.

My present doctor (who I started seeing after I lost the weight and got in pretty good shape) only sees patients that take initiative and work to keep healthy. He will literally drop you as a patient if you're a "give me a pill to fix me" type of patient. He told me he nearly stopped practicing prior to opening up his own practice. Told me about a patient that was Type II Diabetic and he counseled that patient that he should give up all the soda he was drinking or he could lose his leg. The patient said, "take the leg, you're not taking my soda...". WTF!

I can imagine being a doc these days or a nutritional counselor is trying to say the least. My Daughter is dating a guy going to Medical school. Super nice guy, but I'm thinking, why would you want to?

I agree that your doctor should be straightforward about your weight. There is actually a whole thread on this topic a few threads down from here called "Does your doctor comment on your weight". It's your doctor's job to help you monitor your health, and maintaining a healthy weight is a big part of that. I'm not sure why people get offended when their doctor brings it up.

However, the OP of this thread was lamenting that no one in his life (friends, family) had said anything. I don't think most people would react well to those types of unsolicited comments.

WailingDusk · May 2022

fatfish420 wrote: »

This is more a musing of mine as I look back at what lead me to my current weight issues and one thing that always sticks out is the number of people who would tell me I still looked good or wasn't that overweight. these compliments came when I was well over 300 pounds but stopped shortly before getting to my peak of 420. I have wondered if someone had just taken the time to tell 20 something your old me you are gaining way too much weight would currently 32 year old me be a lot healthier.

So the thesis question is when it comes to people's health should we be a bit more blunt and honest about their weight gain?

It wouldn't work. I often wonder that myself when I allowed myself to get to 372, and how many people gave me that 'harsh' dose of reality, but all it did was annoy me. People can harp on you about your weight, but I guarantee, unless you're receptive to it, it won't matter. The harshest dose of reality comes from a health scare, as was my case. I vowed never again, and I wish I had KNOWN in my teens and 20's what I know now. I would have never gotten to that point.

Kiwi2mfp · May 2022

I do not believe in giving false compliments but I also don't believe every time we give someone blunt and constructive criticism that they will be willing to accept that criticism. I think this all depends on the relationship between the two people and how a person would respond to the blunt truth. I have a friend of mine who is highly over weight. I have been telling her about my weight loss journey. Showing her meals I have made and she has said to me a time or two that she should be doing this too. I am hoping that when she sees how easy this can be then maybe she will jump on board. I do not think being blunt with her would help at all. I believe she is a bit depressed. Blunt is not the way to go with a depressed person sometimes. So I do believe it depends on the person. My friend knows...but my bluntness is not going to make her want to make changes.

RaquelFit2 · May 2022

Every once in a while I need a "straightforward reality check." But when someone offers one make sure you feel it's valid. People can have their own agendas and tell you something that isn't reality based.

In January, mom said I was "fat" and better lose weight NOW. I needed that push. Too much pushing and I'll get aggravated. "Tough love," in moderation, helps me.

rjr123456 · June 2022

I think there are very few times or places that this can be done with any positive outcome. I am currently at my highest weight and recently went to a family reunion. I know that I felt defensive and ready to pounce if anyone had dared mention my weight or expressed "concern" or "encouragement." Even though I KNOW that I am at an unhealthy weight, that I don't look or feel my best, and in fact I DO plan to do something about it. But I definitely did NOT want to discuss it with anyone there.

lessjess22 · June 2022

Everyone has different motivators so maybe this works for some people. For me, heck NO. I know I'm fat. I don't need anyone to tell me. It just makes me feel bad about myself and makes me want to rebel against healthy habits because my brain goes "they can't tell me what to do!" even though I know it only hurts me in the long run. "Tough love" does nothing to motivate me. My family harped on my weight when I was growing up and it never did anything but make me hate myself and then eat more because I didn't care about my health. When you hate yourself, you don't care about your health. Even when the intent is to help, criticizing a person can often backfire. Many overweight people have low self esteem already and getting raked over the coals about their weight from "well meaning" people can get really tiring.

siberiantarragon · June 2022

"the number of people who would tell me I still looked good"
I think this is the problem right here. People too often frame obesity as a problem of looks. There are obese people who are considered to be attractive. But it's an issue of health, not an issue of vanity, and too often the two are conflated.
My question is, why do you feel that you needed other people to inform you that being 300-420 pounds was too much? Were you not aware of it otherwise, despite the existence of tools such as the BMI scale and the effects it must have had on your mobility, etc.? And, if you were in that level of denial, would you not have responded negatively to anyone who gave you this "reality check"? I think there's a piece missing of the psychology involved here.
Also in my experience the answer is you can't convince someone of anything they aren't ready to be convinced of. My husband used to be obese and I would give him the "reality check," saying that I didn't want him to go to an early grave, that it was concerning that he would want to sit down after we walked for a few minutes, etc. He would get mad at me and accuse me of being mean for saying these things. He eventually realized just how overweight he was when he saw some photos of himself at an event and was embarrassed how large he was. He lost 50 pounds after that and he realized I was right about how much it was affecting his health and energy levels. Even now when he gains some back, he recognizes that he should lose it again.
I do wonder though whether we as a society need to implement the "reality check" more. In many Asian countries like China, Japan, and South Korea, it is normalized to be blunt about people being overweight. These countries also have some of the lowest obesity rates in the developed world, around 3 to 4%. The US has a 42% obesity rate. So their approach must be working even if it isn't PC. Would we rather be nice to people or would we rather they live a longer and healthier life? I don't think that our normalization of obesity as a society has done anyone any favors because it allows people to just bury themselves in denial instead of facing the problem.

Are harsh straightforward reality checks good?

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