Hitting my calorie goal and exercising but still not losing weight

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  • BartBVanBockstaele
    BartBVanBockstaele Posts: 623 Member
    edited December 2022
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    In my own case, MFP is telling me that I exercised away 566 Kcal today. That is complete nonsense. All I did, was walk from my front door to my window and back while playing some video on a tablet and have my phone count the steps.
    Something wrong with your tracker? According to a calculator I just checked, I'd have to do 9500 steps to burn 566 cals.
    Not as such. I had over 13thousand steps, but it is obvious that this doesn't consume nearly as much energy as claimed, at least in my case. I usually divide the result by 2 but I don't even take that seriously. I simply see it as a fun number, nothing more.
    I just checked. I had 13218 steps on Sunday. Today is Monday and I have 3086 steps so far, which is bound to go up substantially, depending on how busy the day will be...
    The steps are quite accurate, even if some are missed, it is really merely the energy conversion were my results are very improbable.
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,649 Member
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    Note, in case anyone looks closely at the numbers there, I included 1 MET to the implied effort in the estimate, since we should subtract about 1 MET per hour which is the resting calories already accounted for in MFP's TDEE estimate.

    MFP sedentary is 1.25 MET per hour, 1.4 for lightly active, 1.6 for active, 1.8 for very. Which would have to be subtracted to get the net additional. That's when doing things manually on MFP. Which explains a LARGE percentage of the "eat no more than half your calories back", especially when dealing with a low MET long duration activity.

    Tracker integration without manual exercise inputs is supposed to take care of the subtractions automagically... when it works.

    As to whether it is accurate or not. Your mileage will vary BOTH based on how closely you track to the population mean AND on how accurately and consistently you track your inputs.
  • csplatt
    csplatt Posts: 1,020 Member
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    if it were me, i would assume i am not burning as much as i think or not eating as little as i think and shave another 100 calories off my daily.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,178 Member
    edited December 2022
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    PAV8888 wrote: »
    Note, in case anyone looks closely at the numbers there, I included 1 MET to the implied effort in the estimate, since we should subtract about 1 MET per hour which is the resting calories already accounted for in MFP's TDEE estimate.

    MFP sedentary is 1.25 MET per hour, 1.4 for lightly active, 1.6 for active, 1.8 for very. Which would have to be subtracted to get the net additional. That's when doing things manually on MFP. Which explains a LARGE percentage of the "eat no more than half your calories back", especially when dealing with a low MET long duration activity.

    Tracker integration without manual exercise inputs is supposed to take care of the subtractions automagically... when it works.

    As to whether it is accurate or not. Your mileage will vary BOTH based on how closely you track to the population mean AND on how accurately and consistently you track your inputs.

    Unless OP is regularly taking many hours of long, slow walks (or something similar), this isn't the reason for meaningfully slower than expected weight loss, I would guess. He mentions workouts 3-5 days a week, and also that he doesn't count calories at all for his strength training. How he estimates the cardio may matter, but there's a decent chance the strength training (error of underestimating burn) would cancel out the cardio overcount, or close, from activity level issues or gross-to-net issues with METS estimates. For many activities, the gross-to-net adjustment just isn't that arithmetically large or proportionally significant, for quite a range of people.

    Geekery follows in the spoiler, with various approximations. If you don't geek out on this stuff, stop now. You were warned.
    I know the above quoted post is theoretically correct, but I'd encourage folks to understand what one MET (estimated) is in their individual context, even when multiplied by the activity factor, and think about how excitable they choose to be over the differences. For young, big, male people it may be more numerically large, but they also are likely to have a larger TDEE, so the proportions may not be that different. (That's if I'm doing the math right, which is not necessarily always true.)

    Example for me, someone pretty old (67), female, not all that big (5'5"), around 130 pounds now. Mifflin St Jeor would have my BMR at 1226. That puts a simpleminded MET at about 51 calories per hour, 1.25 MET at about 64 calories, 1.6 MET at 82 calories, 1.8 MET at 92 calories.

    So, yeah, if I take a long, slow walk, that error adds up (because the actual exercise calories are low per hour).

    But for a more normal half hour doing what people might think of as an actual workout, where I burn maybe 150-200 calories (conservative lowball estimate), we'd be subtracting (0.5 X 1 MET X activity factor), which is in the range of 32-46 calories. Even in context of my estimated TDEE at sedentary, which is 1351 (still Mifflin St Jeor), that's not a big worry: Arithmetically, not make or break. (In context of my actual TDEE, typically more like 2000+, it's truly trivial as a source of estimating error.)

    When we quibble about subtracting 1 vs. even 1.8 METS for something like a half hour of exercise, we're talking (in my example) something like 41 calories.

    I'm not saying no one needs to worry about this distinction, what I'm saying is that if someone wants to be more accurate, and is able to do some math, it's worth considering how much effort or angst to invest in this particular question, given their estimated BMR, activity level, exercise type/duration/intensity, and that sort of thing.

    All of this stuff is just estimates, and - even though I believe that accuracy is helpful - a person could drive herself batty trying to be super-exact about everything. It's worth a thought about how the particular issue fits into the big picture, so one doesn't end up chasing minor factors while missing more major ones. (The terribleness of some types of estimates for some types of exercise is a much bigger deal, for example.)

    For me personally, it makes sense to use the ExRX calculator to get a net estimate for slow, long walks . . . but I don't much worry about gross vs. net for more normal exercise estimates that are working with a well-metered base of 400-600 exercise calories per hour (gross) in context of a 51 calorie MET. Meh. Random variability in the sweetness of fruit or fat content of packaged foods - let alone stuff I forget to log - probably looms larger.

    Good reference for METS: https://sites.google.com/site/compendiumofphysicalactivities/home

    A person could even make a better estimate of their own MET value than the half-***ed substitute of estimated BMR that I used above, because I'm lazy and TBH don't love math.

    ETA: This sub-discussion should probably go to the Debate Club zone, if anyone wants to belabor it at more length. I think what I posted outside the spoiler is on topic for this thread, but the rest . . . . hmm.
  • Retroguy2000
    Retroguy2000 Posts: 1,515 Member
    edited December 2022
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    @AnnPT77

    For me, 1 MET is 107 calories per hour. If I use an inflated estimate for my exercise calories, that adds up to a large number over the year. Google estimates resistance training at MET 3.5-6. That's a difference of 267 calories per workout depending if I enter the low or high end. I train with weights every other day except for deloads every few months, so for most weeks that's an average variance of 936 calories, which adds up to about one pound per month. Whether I estimate 4 or 5 MET's say, each 1 MET difference is going to add up to nearly 0.5 pounds per month amount of calories.

    I have no way of knowing my MET for resistance training, so I use a lower end MET estimate to better meet my weight targets. Checking it now, the round number I enter works out to an MET of 2.87 for my additional calories burned, so effectively an MET of about 4.

    I'm sure there are people who over-estimate exercise calories, maybe just using the estimate a machine gives them, or using those YouTube "Burn X hundred in Y minutes doing THIS!" workout videos, not accounting for resting MET if they hadn't worked out, and so on, then if they eat all that back they could end up gaining weight which may put them off their program.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,178 Member
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    @Retroguy2000, my point is that people might want to estimate and understand their METS values before agonizing over them . . . not that that issue is meaningless or trivial for everyone, universally. It can be pretty trivial - majoring in the minors - which is what my example would illustrate. It's not the only possible example.

    I'm not sure how big/young you have to be to get a BMR/RMR of around 2500 calories (1 MET = 107), but it's bigger than most of us. If you mean METx1.8 or a lab-measured RMR or something like that, that's a different matter.

    Again:

    This is more of a debate topic than a help to OP IMO. OP is doing cardio 3x a week (when his work schedule permits, and we don't know what type/intensity), and he's not any adding calories for his strength workouts. He's lost only 2 pounds in 45 days of eating an estimated 1600 calories. It seems extremely unlikely that METS exercise estimating variability is the root of the problem. Factor? Maybe. Big factor? Ehhhh, dunno.
  • Retroguy2000
    Retroguy2000 Posts: 1,515 Member
    edited December 2022
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    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    I'm not sure how big/young you have to be to get a BMR/RMR of around 2500 calories (1 MET = 107), but it's bigger than most of us. If you mean METx1.8 or a lab-measured RMR or something like that, that's a different matter.
    The equation for MET is:

    METs x 3.5 x (your body weight in kilograms) / 200 = calories burned per minute

    I'm 102 kg. BMR is not 24 MET's.

    Agreed this can be a diversion and getting in the weeds. The key point is be wary of over-estimating calories from exercise if you plan to eat back some or all of those. That could contribute to losing less weight than expected, which was OP's issue.
  • BartBVanBockstaele
    BartBVanBockstaele Posts: 623 Member
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    csplatt wrote: »
    if it were me, i would assume i am not burning as much as i think or not eating as little as i think and shave another 100 calories off my daily.
    That is indeed how simple it is.
  • BartBVanBockstaele
    BartBVanBockstaele Posts: 623 Member
    edited December 2022
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    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    I'm not sure how big/young you have to be to get a BMR/RMR of around 2500 calories (1 MET = 107), but it's bigger than most of us. If you mean METx1.8 or a lab-measured RMR or something like that, that's a different matter.
    The equation for MET is:

    METs x 3.5 x (your body weight in kilograms) / 200 = calories burned per minute

    I'm 102 kg. BMR is not 24 MET's.

    Agreed this can be a diversion and getting in the weeds. The key point is be wary of over-estimating calories from exercise if you plan to eat back some or all of those. That could contribute to losing less weight than expected, which was OP's issue.
    All those numbers are great for lab studies, which is why they were created. They are next to useless and even dangerous in the hands of most people, because they weren't created for individuals and because these individuals do not have the scientific background to interpret them properly.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,925 Member
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    Eat a little less and check your weight in a week or two. Cheers
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,178 Member
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    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    I'm not sure how big/young you have to be to get a BMR/RMR of around 2500 calories (1 MET = 107), but it's bigger than most of us. If you mean METx1.8 or a lab-measured RMR or something like that, that's a different matter.
    The equation for MET is:

    METs x 3.5 x (your body weight in kilograms) / 200 = calories burned per minute

    I'm 102 kg. BMR is not 24 MET's.

    Agreed this can be a diversion and getting in the weeds. The key point is be wary of over-estimating calories from exercise if you plan to eat back some or all of those. That could contribute to losing less weight than expected, which was OP's issue.

    I agree with being wary of overestimating exercise. But OP is doing cardio 3x a week, eating 1600 calories (reportedly, which is only slightly above the MFP minimum calories for men) and has lost 2 pounds in 45 days. That implies an experiential calorie deficit of about 78 calories. His exercise calorie estimate absolutely could have a material impact on that.

    But METS gross-to-net? Unlikely to be a major issue.

    Even at your estimated 107 calorie one-hour METS, how much does he need to be exercising for METS gross-to-net to be the reason he's not losing faster? If he's exercising 7 hours a week, set at active (so 1.8 x 1 MET per hour that he'd be off), that's about 193 calories a day, or about another 2.5 pounds over the 45 days. Since he's doing cardio 2-3 days a week, that'd be 2-3+ hours of cardio every time to reach 7 hours (possible but unusual).

    Something else is off IMO, unless he's fairly small/light (not 102kg) or old, or maybe targeting 0.5 pounds a week loss in the first place. Yes, it could be the exercise estimate in total creating a problem, but gross-to-net seems like a red herring to me.

    RMR/BMR is an old-school rough approximator for METS, i.e., one MET for one hour is approximately one hour of RMR/BMR. Yes, that's very rough (admittedly outdated method). So, for me, 51 calories per BMR hour, 59 calories per calculated MET-hour - it's still a trivial fraction of meaningful exercise, in context of overall all-source estimating error. How significant it is will vary individually.

    Alternatively, there's a METS calculator here:

    https://metscalculator.com/

    And within that calculator, Activity = Quiet/Light, Description = Meditating will calculate with a 1 MET activity.