Newbie Weight Lifter at Age 49

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  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,882 Member
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    nossmf wrote: »
    (snippety)

    This cycle can occur through lifting objects at work just as easily as through exercise of all forms. Yes, ALL forms, not just weightlifting...swimming, running, yoga can all spur increases in muscle, provided it first stresses the cells to the point of needing repair, then repeats the process until the body feels compelled to repair AND reinforce. This won't continue indefinitely. Think about walking: as an infant, walking was new and decidedly difficult, requiring lots of new brain coordination and muscle building, but as an adult you can walk around without causing any overt damage, thus there's no reason for building the muscles based strictly on walking. You CAN prompt the body into repair, such as by walking for hours on end or hiking over rough terrain/steep slopes.
    (snip)

    There's very much goodness in @nossmf's post, IMO, but I snipped this part. Can I be a witness (in a way that I think could be encouraging to OP)?

    I gained noticeable muscle after mid-40s, while not doing much lifting at all, but mostly from doing a lot of something most would consider cardio, but a form that has a slightly progressive-strength-challenge element to it (rowing, both boats and machines, and plenty of it, for years). And I'm not only old, but female besides. (This was during a period of maintenance, when I was over-fat, not in a calorie deficit.)

    Not gonna lie, it happened really slowly, because rowing (though slowly progressive) is not an efficient way to build muscle if that's the goal, compared to weight lifting. I'd recommend rowing as a thing that's fun, not as an ideal way to build muscle!

    But I suspect that if a middle-aged woman doing sub-optimal exercise can slowly add muscle, a similar-aged man who's strength training has plenty of reason for optimism. Patience still required, probably. ;)

    Creatine: There's been some debate about whether it can cause some muscle cramping, but most recent sources seem to say it doesn't. I've never heard of it making people hyper or jittery, and I certainly don't experience that. It seems to be very safe, it's pretty cheap, and there are hints in research that it's especially helpful as a supplement when aging, plus for (maybe) cognitive benefits as well as for certain exercise-related reasons. (A friend's neurologist told her to take it for cognitive reasons, for example.) There are also hints that it could have benefits for athletes who are vegan or vegetarian with limited dairy/egg intake, but IMU the studies on that front have not been very well controlled.

    Best wishes!
  • daymonh74
    daymonh74 Posts: 19 Member
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    nay0m3 wrote: »

    Curious what your lifting program looks like if you want to share with us!

    I workout every weekday. Treadmill on Monday, Lift Tuesday, Exercise Bike Wednesday, Treadmill again Thursday and Lift Friday.

    For lifting I do the same thing each day since I think there's plenty of recovery time between. Incline bench press, barbell squats, deadlifts, overhead military press, pendlay rows, barbell curls, bent over dumbbell rows, arnolds, and then I usually finish with dumbbell lateral raises and dumbbell face pulls. All free weights.

    All free weights.

    Friday is a busy day. There are times I have to skip Friday and do it Saturday instead. I'm not sure if this is slowing my progress or not. I started The last week of October 2022 and have been consistent. I only added protein shakes in the last couple of weeks. I thought I could get most of my protein from food alone. Nope... not happenin'.
  • nossmf
    nossmf Posts: 9,838 Member
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    Sounds like a solid full-body routine. Moving from Friday to Saturday will not delay your results any, though if you skipped Friday completely that would slow things down.

    MFP members are a mixed bag when it comes to feelings on protein shakes. Some live by them; some think they're the devil incarnate. Most are somewhere in the middle, thinking that if you can get enough protein from regular food then do it, if not then adding a shake is fine. Personally I only add shakes on lifting days, or rarely on days when I'm running light (such as hotdog over a fire night). Otherwise I eat enough meat and drink enough milk that reaching my goals is easy. What's your protein goal?
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,882 Member
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    daymonh74 wrote: »
    nay0m3 wrote: »

    Curious what your lifting program looks like if you want to share with us!

    I workout every weekday. Treadmill on Monday, Lift Tuesday, Exercise Bike Wednesday, Treadmill again Thursday and Lift Friday.

    For lifting I do the same thing each day since I think there's plenty of recovery time between. Incline bench press, barbell squats, deadlifts, overhead military press, pendlay rows, barbell curls, bent over dumbbell rows, arnolds, and then I usually finish with dumbbell lateral raises and dumbbell face pulls. All free weights.

    All free weights.

    Friday is a busy day. There are times I have to skip Friday and do it Saturday instead. I'm not sure if this is slowing my progress or not. I started The last week of October 2022 and have been consistent. I only added protein shakes in the last couple of weeks. I thought I could get most of my protein from food alone. Nope... not happenin'.

    I share @nossmf's question about your protein goal. Also, are you an omnivore?

    (Honest bias admission: I have no difficulty getting enough protein, like routinely over 1g/pound of lean body mass, even as a vegetarian, and doing it without protein powders/bars or in my case faux meats. Even though I understand in the abstract that different people have different taste preferences, I always wonder about the scenario when omnivores say they struggle to get adequate protein from food. Some of them have simply cut calories too far, though it sounds like you're on a more moderate loss-rate track. As an aside, I don't think there's anything wrong with protein supplements or faux meats, I just don't personally find them tasty or satisfying.)

    If you'd like to be getting more of your protein from food, this thread may be helpful:

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10247171/carbs-and-fats-are-cheap-heres-a-guide-to-getting-your-proteins-worth-fiber-also

    It helped me when I was first trying to get plenty of protein on reduced calories at the start of loss, even though it's very much an "all eating styles" thread, and many of the most calorie-efficient protein choices are meaty/fishy.

    Again, supplements are fine, but if you're strongly motivated to be more food-focused (optional!), I could make some suggestions to you about how to get there, because it's a game that many of us veg people need to play when we first adopt this dietary style (as I did in *1974*). The approach would work fine for an omnivore, with the bonus that y'all can utilize foods that we veg people won't/can't. I won't belabor it on speculation, because if you prefer to use a protein supplement, that's fine.
  • daymonh74
    daymonh74 Posts: 19 Member
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    nossmf wrote: »
    What's your protein goal?

    About 0.8 grams per pound which right now puts me at about 190 grams. Even with shakes I struggle to get close to 150 grams.

    More lean meat would probably help, but it takes time that I don't have cooking steaks, pork and chicken breast.

    Working 2nd shift doesn't help since I would basically need to eat the cooked meal for lunch.

    That's why I decided to add in shakes.

  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,882 Member
    edited February 2023
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    daymonh74 wrote: »
    nossmf wrote: »
    What's your protein goal?

    About 0.8 grams per pound which right now puts me at about 190 grams. Even with shakes I struggle to get close to 150 grams.

    More lean meat would probably help, but it takes time that I don't have cooking steaks, pork and chicken breast.

    Working 2nd shift doesn't help since I would basically need to eat the cooked meal for lunch.

    That's why I decided to add in shakes.

    If we haven't already linked it, there's an evidence-based protein calculator you could take a look at, from a generally well-respected site:

    https://examine.com/protein-intake-calculator/

    Full explanation of their basis for these recommendations in this document:

    https://examine.com/guides/protein-intake/

    On a quick re-skim of the thread, I didn't see an indication of how much weight you think you need to lose, though your BMI at 239 would be 34.5 (class 1 obese, technically). BMI isn't perfect for individual assessment, to say the least, but it's a semi-reliable screener. Men with normal-to-moderate muscle often are better in the upper end of the normal BMI range (that full range would be 128-172 pounds at your height), or even the lower part of the theoretically overweight range (173-207 is the full overweight range at your height). Some men are objectively not over-fat at even higher weights, but that tends to be men with really high muscularity and/or an unusual build.

    IMO, you'd probably be OK at a minimum of 0.8g daily per pound of a healthy goal weight, or 1g per pound of estimated lean body mass (LBM). This is a case where even the probably-inaccurate estimate of LBM from a home scale or online calculator (like the "Navy Body Fat Calculator" ones) can be OK to use, because the arithmetic leads the final protein estimate to be pretty close even if the body fat percent (BF%) estimate is questionable.

    I'm sure some of the guys will have more nuanced ideas about this, but even if you end up at the upper end of the overweight BMI range at a satisfying-to-you body composition, 0.8 x 207 would be a protein minimum of about 166 g daily.
  • Retroguy2000
    Retroguy2000 Posts: 1,589 Member
    edited February 2023
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    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    1g per pound of estimated lean body mass (LBM).
    ^ This. The "X grams per pound bw" adage falls apart for non-lean people. Your fat doesn't need all that protein. It's either a sliding scale of X to Y grams per pound bw, X if you're at a high body fat range, Y if you're lean, or just use a lean body mass estimate, which at 1g per pound lbm comes out to about 160g being plenty for you. I don't think a bit higher will be harmful, but it could be an inconvenience to try and fit into your daily intake and macros.

    I assume the people in this study were generally leaner than OP, which means the following ratio could drop somewhat:

    Protein supplementation beyond total protein intakes of 1.62 g/kg/day (0.73g/lb) resulted in no further RET-induced gains in FFM.

    https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/52/6/376

    EDIT: I see the examine link shows 160g being the upper range of a good target. I got the 160g estimate from a lean body mass calculator and applying 1g per pound to that.
  • nossmf
    nossmf Posts: 9,838 Member
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    daymonh74 wrote: »
    About 0.8 grams per pound which right now puts me at about 190 grams. Even with shakes I struggle to get close to 150 grams.

    More lean meat would probably help, but it takes time that I don't have cooking steaks, pork and chicken breast.

    Working 2nd shift doesn't help since I would basically need to eat the cooked meal for lunch.

    Admittedly, cooking steak can take time to do right, but pork and chicken can be cooked in no time flat. Seriously, if you have 15 minutes I can show you how to make a very high-protein meal. How high? With 8oz of chicken, a cup of egg noodles, a cup of broccoli and a 12oz cup of milk we're talking 93g of protein for only 650 calories in 15 minutes. That's a single meal in less time than it takes some people to take a shower. So while I understand time crunch is a real thing, the statement "I have no time" doesn't hold water with me. Even if you don't have time during the week, a couple hours spent on the weekend mass producing food, putting into tupperware in the fridge, and pulling out to nuke will set you up for success.

    As far as working 2nd shift, do you mean working from 2pm-10pm or something similar? I did that for years, and yep, I ate protein-heavy at lunch time before work. Combined with tupperware leftovers which can get nuked at work, and it's still doable.
  • daymonh74
    daymonh74 Posts: 19 Member
    edited February 2023
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    AnnPT77 wrote: »

    Thanks for that link. After reading through this thread and doing more digging online I definitely want to try and get most of my protein from food which I did initially. Back to the drawing board...