Proper Human Diet
Replies
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tomcustombuilder wrote: »Carbs should be classed and defined in 2 different ways to avoid confusion. Non processed and processed. Too many people only consider processed carbs as carbs. You could even go with ultra processed in some cases.
And what about processed fats? And where do you draw the line between processed and not processed?1 -
vivmom2014 wrote: »The hubris of this thread title makes me wonder if OP coined it, or lifted it directly from the book. Not that it matters, but sheesh...
Nope, it's real. Dr. Berry is or was on tour promoting it. He has PHD T shirts too. Cheers0 -
I agree with OP but with the caveat that if carbs work for you then by all means eat them. There are, however, plenty of people with food sensitivities who are better off without them. And yes, just as important is getting off ultra processed foods. I went keto 3 months ago. At the time I was using a cane to walk because my osteoarthritis in both hips was so bad. I was in a tremendous amount of pain every day. My life was, frankly, miserable. Then I decided I needed to lose a few pounds. I looked at various diets online and Keto looked good to me so I started it. Within 3 weeks my hip pain disappeared!! I could walk again with no limp, no pain, and no cane! I researched this online & found that keto diets improve or eliminate a variety of autoimmune disorders of which osteoarthritis is one. I will never go back to carbs (except for my birthday cake
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it was a response regarding carbs and the perception by many that carbs are only things like bread, pasta, etc.tomcustombuilder wrote: »Carbs should be classed and defined in 2 different ways to avoid confusion. Non processed and processed. Too many people only consider processed carbs as carbs. You could even go with ultra processed in some cases.
And what about processed fats? And where do you draw the line between processed and not processed?
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elainecorwin7355 wrote: »I agree with OP but with the caveat that if carbs work for you then by all means eat them. There are, however, plenty of people with food sensitivities who are better off without them. And yes, just as important is getting off ultra processed foods. I went keto 3 months ago. At the time I was using a cane to walk because my osteoarthritis in both hips was so bad. I was in a tremendous amount of pain every day. My life was, frankly, miserable. Then I decided I needed to lose a few pounds. I looked at various diets online and Keto looked good to me so I started it. Within 3 weeks my hip pain disappeared!! I could walk again with no limp, no pain, and no cane! I researched this online & found that keto diets improve or eliminate a variety of autoimmune disorders of which osteoarthritis is one. I will never go back to carbs (except for my birthday cake
Fruits and vegetables and anything that is grown from the ground is mostly carbs with the exception of things like avocado and nuts.4 -
I’m down 53# in 6 months. For me, I was insulin resistant like every processed carb addict. I now only eat food with only one ingredient or very simple ingredient lists (like…sardines, salt, water). My diet is primarily keto based on a fresh whole food foundation. I try to focus on my restoration of gut health. I do have the rare potato of bread on special dinners. My body is learning how to be a fat burner again. For my body, very low carb, moderate protein and higher fat works best for the whole lists of things I want to achieve.3
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DebbsSeattle wrote: »I’m down 53# in 6 months. For me, I was insulin resistant like every processed carb addict. I now only eat food with only one ingredient or very simple ingredient lists (like…sardines, salt, water). My diet is primarily keto based on a fresh whole food foundation. I try to focus on my restoration of gut health. I do have the rare potato of bread on special dinners. My body is learning how to be a fat burner again. For my body, very low carb, moderate protein and higher fat works best for the whole lists of things I want to achieve.
One of the tenets of the "proper human diet" which is as close to a keto diet as possible according to Dr. Berry is, it's almost impossible to overeat and gain weight. When I did do keto off and on over the last decade is when I experienced the most satiation compared to about the 100 g's I generally eat now, and I've always had a little bit of joint discomfort, mostly in one hand and one knee, which cleared up completely.
I did do carnivore for 60 days 2 years ago as a nutritional experiment which I've done for most diets to see how I felt and how it effected me and I lost about 11 lbs and I actually tried to maintain a stable weight, which was an integral part of the experiment, and I just couldn't eat that much animal food to do that. Which seems to agree with what I've found while researching carnivore. People don't gain weight and the main reason why people eventually stumble on carnivore is trying to find solutions for their health, mostly the inflammatory kind from metabolic dysfunction and weight loss just happens, which most thought would happen but does almost by default. Anyway, glad your finding a solution to your weight problem. I'll say that going that low to be in ketosis was too restrictive for me personally and carnivore was not enjoyable either for the same reasons, but then again I don't have the health problems that many other people have to deal with and trying to find solutions. Cheers1 -
@AnnPT77
Your pedantry taught me two new words I'll probably never see nor use again. I like it when I learn something in the very first post I read of the day, so thanks for that. I've never heard of synecdoche nor metonymy though I instinctively knew of their ability to obscure meaning!
:flowerforyou:6 -
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^^confused...
**Edit to ask springle what that image she posted means?
I am not a Sesame Street connoisseur
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It’s the guys who sing menomenah, which sounds remarkably like metonymy.
Just popped into my head. I am no good at figuring out how to post gifs. 🤷🏻♀️3 -
That’s an earworm I’m going to regret for the rest of the day.4
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Yes, thank you. I shall be singing this all day now.springlering62 wrote: »That’s an earworm I’m going to regret for the rest of the day.2 -
This idea that there are "types of carbs" is a non-starter, usually fuzzy thinking, unless by "types of carbs" we're referring to actual subclasses of the macronutrient, like fiber, sugars, starches, or more detailed subtypes.
There are types of foods: Unprocessed, more processed, nutrient-dense, etc., would be attributes one could sensibly apply to foods. Nutrient composition is an attribute of food, analogous to its color or other attributes - sub-classifications of foods. Even "high carb" can be an attribute of a food, just like "blue" or "grainy". But foods are not carbs, strictly speaking. Foods have carbs (or don't) as one of their subcomponents or attributes.
When someone says "apples are a good carb" or "processed carbs", they're using a figure of speech, probably a synecdoche or metonymy depending on the details. In a practical applied sense, it obscures rather than enlightening.
In a lot of other contexts, when people use these figures of speech, they don't confuse the details. (Example: If I said "paved miles are easier to bike than gravel miles", you'd implicitly understand I was talking about roads/trails. You'd know that miles themselves don't have a paved or unpaved surface - that's nonsensical. For some reason, some people don't seem to have that understanding when it's "types of carbs", and it leads to confused conclusions in some cases.)
Yes, I'm being pedantic.
I have long believed that a large number of arguments and debates occur because of word choices, when the opposing sides are assigning different meaning to words, phrases, or figures of speech. I've seen this so many times.
One of the most prevalent argument-inducing issues I've witnessed here at MFP is the lack of distinguishing between weight loss and health. Many people cannot separate them. It's logical that they often go hand in hand, but they are not the same thing. Weight loss can be achieved without choosing healthy food, and it's possible to overeat and gain weight while eating healthy food. (Without getting into a whole thing about what "healthy food" means, because there are also a million different definitions of that!)
@AnnPT77 , you are one of the very best on these boards when it comes to giving clear and understandable answers and eliminating confusion over words. Continue to be as pedantic as you like!10 -
bobsburgersfan wrote: »This idea that there are "types of carbs" is a non-starter, usually fuzzy thinking, unless by "types of carbs" we're referring to actual subclasses of the macronutrient, like fiber, sugars, starches, or more detailed subtypes.
There are types of foods: Unprocessed, more processed, nutrient-dense, etc., would be attributes one could sensibly apply to foods. Nutrient composition is an attribute of food, analogous to its color or other attributes - sub-classifications of foods. Even "high carb" can be an attribute of a food, just like "blue" or "grainy". But foods are not carbs, strictly speaking. Foods have carbs (or don't) as one of their subcomponents or attributes.
When someone says "apples are a good carb" or "processed carbs", they're using a figure of speech, probably a synecdoche or metonymy depending on the details. In a practical applied sense, it obscures rather than enlightening.
In a lot of other contexts, when people use these figures of speech, they don't confuse the details. (Example: If I said "paved miles are easier to bike than gravel miles", you'd implicitly understand I was talking about roads/trails. You'd know that miles themselves don't have a paved or unpaved surface - that's nonsensical. For some reason, some people don't seem to have that understanding when it's "types of carbs", and it leads to confused conclusions in some cases.)
Yes, I'm being pedantic.
I have long believed that a large number of arguments and debates occur because of word choices, when the opposing sides are assigning different meaning to words, phrases, or figures of speech. I've seen this so many times.
One of the most prevalent argument-inducing issues I've witnessed here at MFP is the lack of distinguishing between weight loss and health. Many people cannot separate them. It's logical that they often go hand in hand, but they are not the same thing. Weight loss can be achieved without choosing healthy food, and it's possible to overeat and gain weight while eating healthy food. (Without getting into a whole thing about what "healthy food" means, because there are also a million different definitions of that!)
@AnnPT77 , you are one of the very best on these boards when it comes to giving clear and understandable answers and eliminating confusion over words. Continue to be as pedantic as you like!
Even the label "healthy food" is a point of confusion. Food is not healthy or unhealthy (baring allergies or the like) in and of itself or it would not be food. Usually, its health or lack there of has to do with overall diet and how big a proportion of the diet is makes up. Eat something, even "healthy" things to excess and there will likely be negative results. I personally strive to use the word "nutritious" rather than healthy or unhealthy, and encourage people to look at the nutrition provided by something realizing that a treat that is not particularly nutritious can be fine in their overall diet. In fact it can be beneficial in terms of mental balance. Eat too much less nutritious foods and thus either over consume calories or forgo the nutrient rich foods, is what leads to issues. It is not whether food is "healthy" or "unhealthy."6 -
Yes, I agree with everything you said here! I'll certainly concede that nutritious is a better way to express what I meant.rileysowner wrote: »bobsburgersfan wrote: »This idea that there are "types of carbs" is a non-starter, usually fuzzy thinking, unless by "types of carbs" we're referring to actual subclasses of the macronutrient, like fiber, sugars, starches, or more detailed subtypes.
There are types of foods: Unprocessed, more processed, nutrient-dense, etc., would be attributes one could sensibly apply to foods. Nutrient composition is an attribute of food, analogous to its color or other attributes - sub-classifications of foods. Even "high carb" can be an attribute of a food, just like "blue" or "grainy". But foods are not carbs, strictly speaking. Foods have carbs (or don't) as one of their subcomponents or attributes.
When someone says "apples are a good carb" or "processed carbs", they're using a figure of speech, probably a synecdoche or metonymy depending on the details. In a practical applied sense, it obscures rather than enlightening.
In a lot of other contexts, when people use these figures of speech, they don't confuse the details. (Example: If I said "paved miles are easier to bike than gravel miles", you'd implicitly understand I was talking about roads/trails. You'd know that miles themselves don't have a paved or unpaved surface - that's nonsensical. For some reason, some people don't seem to have that understanding when it's "types of carbs", and it leads to confused conclusions in some cases.)
Yes, I'm being pedantic.
I have long believed that a large number of arguments and debates occur because of word choices, when the opposing sides are assigning different meaning to words, phrases, or figures of speech. I've seen this so many times.
One of the most prevalent argument-inducing issues I've witnessed here at MFP is the lack of distinguishing between weight loss and health. Many people cannot separate them. It's logical that they often go hand in hand, but they are not the same thing. Weight loss can be achieved without choosing healthy food, and it's possible to overeat and gain weight while eating healthy food. (Without getting into a whole thing about what "healthy food" means, because there are also a million different definitions of that!)
@AnnPT77 , you are one of the very best on these boards when it comes to giving clear and understandable answers and eliminating confusion over words. Continue to be as pedantic as you like!
Even the label "healthy food" is a point of confusion. Food is not healthy or unhealthy (baring allergies or the like) in and of itself or it would not be food. Usually, its health or lack there of has to do with overall diet and how big a proportion of the diet is makes up. Eat something, even "healthy" things to excess and there will likely be negative results. I personally strive to use the word "nutritious" rather than healthy or unhealthy, and encourage people to look at the nutrition provided by something realizing that a treat that is not particularly nutritious can be fine in their overall diet. In fact it can be beneficial in terms of mental balance. Eat too much less nutritious foods and thus either over consume calories or forgo the nutrient rich foods, is what leads to issues. It is not whether food is "healthy" or "unhealthy."1 -
springlering62 wrote: »That’s an earworm I’m going to regret for the rest of the day.
WHY would you do this to us? WHY?2 -
The whole community in an uproar because I said quit carbs in caps. My post was meant to show that other options exist and they do work. Every dietary plan I have ever been given has included carbs as the main source of nutrition. I'm so regretful that I actually paid for that.
I have struggled with my health and weight most of my life.
This is something that I don't consider to be a diet but a healthy life change. And it's working. Even thin people can be unhealthy.
Yep, I feel lied to.
Issues that I have been addressing with my doctors for years are no longer issues.
My joints aren't swollen and painful, no more RLS, my fatty liver is no longer fatty, no more hypertension, my A1C is back to normal, my skin feels better, sleeping way better and sooooo much more energy. And the bonus is losing weight. And.... yes, improved mental clarity.
The food industry has zero incentive other than to keep you coming back for your next carb rush. Your health means nothing to them. If you're addicted, chances are so are your children and so on.
I felt so strongly to make that first post because for the first time, I found something that works for me, I see it working for others, and it makes sense.
Dr. Berry is very knowledgeable and has had his own personal experiences. Dr.Ekberg is another amazing resource.
I think it's important that we advocate for ourselves. Do the research. Find a doctor that listens to you.
Hope you all stay happy & healthy
Tina2 -
I think the issue wasn't that it works for YOU which is awesome but the fact that your original post had the narrative that you had found some new phenomenal diet that everyone should try and carbs are the enemy.teenerbug1968 wrote: »The whole community in an uproar because I said quit carbs in caps. My post was meant to show that other options exist and they do work. Every dietary plan I have ever been given has included carbs as the main source of nutrition. I'm so regretful that I actually paid for that.
I have struggled with my health and weight most of my life.
This is something that I don't consider to be a diet but a healthy life change. And it's working. Even thin people can be unhealthy.
Yep, I feel lied to.
Issues that I have been addressing with my doctors for years are no longer issues.
My joints aren't swollen and painful, no more RLS, my fatty liver is no longer fatty, no more hypertension, my A1C is back to normal, my skin feels better, sleeping way better and sooooo much more energy. And the bonus is losing weight. And.... yes, improved mental clarity.
The food industry has zero incentive other than to keep you coming back for your next carb rush. Your health means nothing to them. If you're addicted, chances are so are your children and so on.
I felt so strongly to make that first post because for the first time, I found something that works for me, I see it working for others, and it makes sense.
Dr. Berry is very knowledgeable and has had his own personal experiences. Dr.Ekberg is another amazing resource.
I think it's important that we advocate for ourselves. Do the research. Find a doctor that listens to you.
Hope you all stay happy & healthy
Tina
And statements such as this exaserbated the misunderstandings:
The food industry has zero incentive other than to keep you coming back for your next carb rush. Your health means nothing to them. If you're addicted, chances are so are your children and so on
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elainecorwin7355 wrote: »...found that keto diets improve or eliminate a variety of autoimmune disorders of which osteoarthritis is one. I will never go back to carbs (except for my birthday cake
Osteoarthritis (OA) is NOT an autoimmune disorder. It's simply, in its most basic definition, excessive wear over time of the protective cartilage on the ends of the bones.
https://www.cdc.gov/arthritis/basics/osteoarthritis.htm#:~:text=Osteoarthritis (OA) is the most,underlying bone begins to change.
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teenerbug1968 wrote: »The whole community in an uproar because I said quit carbs in caps. My post was meant to show that other options exist and they do work. Every dietary plan I have ever been given has included carbs as the main source of nutrition. I'm so regretful that I actually paid for that.
I have struggled with my health and weight most of my life.
This is something that I don't consider to be a diet but a healthy life change. And it's working. Even thin people can be unhealthy.
Yep, I feel lied to.
Issues that I have been addressing with my doctors for years are no longer issues.
My joints aren't swollen and painful, no more RLS, my fatty liver is no longer fatty, no more hypertension, my A1C is back to normal, my skin feels better, sleeping way better and sooooo much more energy. And the bonus is losing weight. And.... yes, improved mental clarity.
The food industry has zero incentive other than to keep you coming back for your next carb rush. Your health means nothing to them. If you're addicted, chances are so are your children and so on.
I felt so strongly to make that first post because for the first time, I found something that works for me, I see it working for others, and it makes sense.
Dr. Berry is very knowledgeable and has had his own personal experiences. Dr.Ekberg is another amazing resource.
I think it's important that we advocate for ourselves. Do the research. Find a doctor that listens to you.
Hope you all stay happy & healthy
Tina
Hardly in an uproar, just tired of the umpteenth person claiming carbs are evil and 'the only way' is to eliminate them.
It has benefits for some, it's not the holy grail or the only 'proper diet'.
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Stress is a major driver of fat storage. You know what's stressful? More talk about the proper human diet. One size does not fit all, and it never will. Anyone who has been chasing weight loss for month and years, by eliminating food groups, sets themselves up for more repeat dieting cycles.
If eating less food groups made things better, there would be no such thing as rebound weight gain with friends.
One diet, one time....would fix everything, but it doesn't. Many have fallen prey to low carb, no carb diets, followed with the eat-all-of-the-things diet.
Our personal experiences are not a reliable guide for anyone else. I find these truths to be self-evident.
"The moment we banish a food, it paradoxically builds up a craving life of its own, that gets stronger with each diet.
It builds more momentum as the deprivation deepens."
"When we rigidly limit the amount of foods we are allowed to eat, it sets you up to crave larger amounts of those very foods."8 -
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I always want them to check back in six months, or better yet - two years. How long did you stay with it? Is your weight where you want it and steady at a healthy number? Most of the low carb converts are newly minted. This OP even goes so far as to say all carbs. Not sure how that is going to work long term.
Being converted to a low carb evangelist for a couple months to lose some pounds is one thing. Actually eating that way forever is really challenging - and I agree, not necessary.6 -
jseams1234 wrote: »elainecorwin7355 wrote: »...found that keto diets improve or eliminate a variety of autoimmune disorders of which osteoarthritis is one. I will never go back to carbs (except for my birthday cake
Osteoarthritis (OA) is NOT an autoimmune disorder. It's simply, in its most basic definition, excessive wear over time of the protective cartilage on the ends of the bones.
https://www.cdc.gov/arthritis/basics/osteoarthritis.htm#:~:text=Osteoarthritis (OA) is the most,underlying bone begins to change.
Yeah, this one is confusing. It was classified as as noninflammatory arthritis but studies from around 2014-15 now believe it is inflammation.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25784380/
Recent findings: Inflammation was seen as the key component promoting synovitis as well as progression of cartilage and bone destruction in osteoarthritis. Thus, metabolic-triggered inflammation involving cytokines, adipokines, abnormal metabolites, acute phase reactants and even complement, all appear to play major roles in osteoarthritis pathophysiology.
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teenerbug1968 wrote: »The whole community in an uproar because I said quit carbs in caps. My post was meant to show that other options exist and they do work. Every dietary plan I have ever been given has included carbs as the main source of nutrition. I'm so regretful that I actually paid for that.
I have struggled with my health and weight most of my life.
This is something that I don't consider to be a diet but a healthy life change. And it's working. Even thin people can be unhealthy.
Yep, I feel lied to.
Issues that I have been addressing with my doctors for years are no longer issues.
My joints aren't swollen and painful, no more RLS, my fatty liver is no longer fatty, no more hypertension, my A1C is back to normal, my skin feels better, sleeping way better and sooooo much more energy. And the bonus is losing weight. And.... yes, improved mental clarity.
The food industry has zero incentive other than to keep you coming back for your next carb rush. Your health means nothing to them. If you're addicted, chances are so are your children and so on.
I felt so strongly to make that first post because for the first time, I found something that works for me, I see it working for others, and it makes sense.
Dr. Berry is very knowledgeable and has had his own personal experiences. Dr.Ekberg is another amazing resource.
I think it's important that we advocate for ourselves. Do the research. Find a doctor that listens to you.
Hope you all stay happy & healthy
Tina
I'm absolutely sincerely happy for you that you've found your perfect formula. That's wonderful, almost magical!
Assuming it's universally the right answer, and posting accordingly, is over-reach, that's all.
It's a disservice to suggest your personal best route is everyone's best route. It can be a route to try, sure, if someone hasn't found their individual right path yet. It's good to share your n=1 subjective reactions.
Low carb was awful for me when I tried it, and that awfulness will be true for some others . . . but not for everyone. For me, low carb was also entirely unnecessary to meet my goals . . . also not true for everyone. For some people, like you, it's perfect. I respect that.
I understand how finding your personal right path can feel almost like a religious conversion. But that kind of post will get push-back here, because it becomes pretty clear pretty fast that different people have different best paths.
Keep posting, keep participating. Maybe don't oversell?
In practice, it's likely that a "I tried this and it worked really well for me, so maybe you might want to try it, too" kind of approach will tend to win more support and converts. You were off to a good start with your OP, really, but the title and a little of the verbiage ("It will change your life and your relation with food", plus that "QUIT EATING CARBS") were a little over the top. IOW, tell us how you feel, don't tell us how we'll feel (because you might be wrong . . . as was true in this case).
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Reducing carbs is not eliminating them as a food group, not even sure how that even registers as an argument when vegetarian or vegan happen to actually omit categories of food. I suspect most of the 250 million overweight and obese people in the US will not be going low carb either, so no worries, and suspect they will continue to eat all the yummy food they've eaten all their lives, well, maybe some will decide to eat fewer carbs. Personally the category of food I'm trying eliminate is ultra processed, and so far I've resisted those yummy foods rather easily with no cravings, so wish me luck.
Cheers. 0 -
neanderthin wrote: »Reducing carbs is not eliminating them as a food group, not even sure how that even registers as an argument when vegetarian or vegan happen to actually omit categories of food. I suspect most of the 250 million overweight and obese people in the US will not be going low carb either, so no worries, and suspect they will continue to eat all the yummy food they've eaten all their lives, well, maybe some will decide to eat fewer carbs. Personally the category of food I'm trying eliminate is ultra processed, and so far I've resisted those yummy foods rather easily with no cravings, so wish me luck. Cheers.
I had a tantrum and cried and screamed every time I passed a McDonalds for the first 6 months when I cut out fast food. And I didn't even like McDonald's that much.2 -
sollyn23l2 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »Reducing carbs is not eliminating them as a food group, not even sure how that even registers as an argument when vegetarian or vegan happen to actually omit categories of food. I suspect most of the 250 million overweight and obese people in the US will not be going low carb either, so no worries, and suspect they will continue to eat all the yummy food they've eaten all their lives, well, maybe some will decide to eat fewer carbs. Personally the category of food I'm trying eliminate is ultra processed, and so far I've resisted those yummy foods rather easily with no cravings, so wish me luck. Cheers.
I had a tantrum and cried and screamed every time I passed a McDonalds for the first 6 months when I cut out fast food. And I didn't even like McDonald's that much.
Hahaha. It actually wasn't a big deal for me. Lived rurally until my teens and fast food was maybe once a month. Personally I find most fast foods totally disgusting as far as taste, texture and composition is concerned and my achilles heel was desserts and sugary things. Still eat at the table for dinner, it's still an occasion to relax and share with family and friends and because I'm a chef, they like coming over, a lot. Anyway, whole foods do it for me and lower carb keeps my wiring from a meltdown. cheers.0 -
I don't think some push back on one thread is exactly the whole community in an uproar.
I think you have vastly overstated your impact there.
The push back isnt because of 1 sentence in capitals - you have missed the point of replies if you think that
I have no issue with anyone sharing a way of eating that works for them.
I do have an issue with claiming your way is The One Way for everyone, claiming other people are addicted etc.
Yes you have an option that worked for you - low carb is hardly a new or original option though.
Pays to read threads before making melodramatic claims - you would have seen that for yourself before doing so.4
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