When we lose weight, where does it go?
TexasTallchick
Posts: 138 Member
I was curious, so I looked it up, watched a fascinating Ted Talk about the mathematics of weight loss and learned this:
84% of fat is exhaled as CO2 (carbon dioxide)
16% of fat is excreted as H20 (water)
Not sure if it's accurate, but it was really interesting, and definitely over my head!
84% of fat is exhaled as CO2 (carbon dioxide)
16% of fat is excreted as H20 (water)
Not sure if it's accurate, but it was really interesting, and definitely over my head!
Tagged:
6
Replies
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That's pretty much what happens.1
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As far as I understand it, most of the ‘energy’ is exhaled as Carbon Dioxide when you breathe.
I notice that there’s a definite link with urination in the early days but that’s water balance due to potentially a lower carbohydrate load in your diet. Carbohydrates require water to metabolise.
So, basically what your podcast taught you is accurate.1 -
That’s really interesting! I’m going to have to check that Ted talk out. Thanks for sharing!2
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Yep, but the percentages vary depending on the source but it's always in and around the 80 % 20% range.1
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BarbaraHelen2013 wrote: »As far as I understand it, most of the ‘energy’ is exhaled as Carbon Dioxide when you breathe.
I notice that there’s a definite link with urination in the early days but that’s water balance due to potentially a lower carbohydrate load in your diet. Carbohydrates require water to metabolise.
So, basically what your podcast taught you is accurate.
That's not quite right. The energy is used, not "exhaled." It comes from breaking down complex molecules, and CO2 is the major waste product of that process.2 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »BarbaraHelen2013 wrote: »As far as I understand it, most of the ‘energy’ is exhaled as Carbon Dioxide when you breathe.
I notice that there’s a definite link with urination in the early days but that’s water balance due to potentially a lower carbohydrate load in your diet. Carbohydrates require water to metabolise.
So, basically what your podcast taught you is accurate.
That's not quite right. The energy is used, not "exhaled." It comes from breaking down complex molecules, and CO2 is the major waste product of that process.
In a way. Yes, you have to "use" the energy by various and sundry activities in order to release it from your cells, but it is ultimately breathed out and expelled. You have to remember, energy cannot be created nor destroyed, merely changed. If we didn't expel it as we breathe, it would stay in our body.3 -
sollyn23l2 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »BarbaraHelen2013 wrote: »As far as I understand it, most of the ‘energy’ is exhaled as Carbon Dioxide when you breathe.
I notice that there’s a definite link with urination in the early days but that’s water balance due to potentially a lower carbohydrate load in your diet. Carbohydrates require water to metabolise.
So, basically what your podcast taught you is accurate.
That's not quite right. The energy is used, not "exhaled." It comes from breaking down complex molecules, and CO2 is the major waste product of that process.
In a way. Yes, you have to "use" the energy by various and sundry activities in order to release it from your cells, but it is ultimately breathed out and expelled. You have to remember, energy cannot be created nor destroyed, merely changed. If we didn't expel it as we breathe, it would stay in our body.
Yes, we are talking about the metabolic breakdown of adipose (body fat) here and not how all energy sources are used per se. Body fat (triglycerides) are basically fatty acids chains with a glycerol backbone that contain chains of carbon, oxygen and hydrogen, which are converted to adenosine triphosphate (ATP) then oxidized to CO2 and H20 by beta oxidation and the citric acid cycle, so it's expelled (converted) through breath to C02 and through water loss through sweat and urine for example. The glycerol part of that fatty acid chain after beta oxidation is what can be used for gluconeogenesis, which is the making of new glucose. short story. Cheers2 -
You're forgetting heat.sollyn23l2 wrote: »
In a way. Yes, you have to "use" the energy by various and sundry activities in order to release it from your cells, but it is ultimately breathed out and expelled. You have to remember, energy cannot be created nor destroyed, merely changed. If we didn't expel it as we breathe, it would stay in our body.lynn_glenmont wrote: »BarbaraHelen2013 wrote: »As far as I understand it, most of the ‘energy’ is exhaled as Carbon Dioxide when you breathe.
I notice that there’s a definite link with urination in the early days but that’s water balance due to potentially a lower carbohydrate load in your diet. Carbohydrates require water to metabolise.
So, basically what your podcast taught you is accurate.
That's not quite right. The energy is used, not "exhaled." It comes from breaking down complex molecules, and CO2 is the major waste product of that process.
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Retroguy2000 wrote: »
You're forgetting heat.sollyn23l2 wrote: »
In a way. Yes, you have to "use" the energy by various and sundry activities in order to release it from your cells, but it is ultimately breathed out and expelled. You have to remember, energy cannot be created nor destroyed, merely changed. If we didn't expel it as we breathe, it would stay in our body.lynn_glenmont wrote: »BarbaraHelen2013 wrote: »As far as I understand it, most of the ‘energy’ is exhaled as Carbon Dioxide when you breathe.
I notice that there’s a definite link with urination in the early days but that’s water balance due to potentially a lower carbohydrate load in your diet. Carbohydrates require water to metabolise.
So, basically what your podcast taught you is accurate.
That's not quite right. The energy is used, not "exhaled." It comes from breaking down complex molecules, and CO2 is the major waste product of that process.
Yes, heat is another way our body releases energy back out into the world.
ETA: This is why your breath is hot, not cold.1 -
neanderthin wrote: »sollyn23l2 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »BarbaraHelen2013 wrote: »As far as I understand it, most of the ‘energy’ is exhaled as Carbon Dioxide when you breathe.
I notice that there’s a definite link with urination in the early days but that’s water balance due to potentially a lower carbohydrate load in your diet. Carbohydrates require water to metabolise.
So, basically what your podcast taught you is accurate.
That's not quite right. The energy is used, not "exhaled." It comes from breaking down complex molecules, and CO2 is the major waste product of that process.
In a way. Yes, you have to "use" the energy by various and sundry activities in order to release it from your cells, but it is ultimately breathed out and expelled. You have to remember, energy cannot be created nor destroyed, merely changed. If we didn't expel it as we breathe, it would stay in our body.
Yes, we are talking about the metabolic breakdown of adipose (body fat) here and not how all energy sources are used per se. Body fat (triglycerides) are basically fatty acids chains with a glycerol backbone that contain chains of carbon, oxygen and hydrogen, which are converted to adenosine triphosphate (ATP) then oxidized to CO2 and H20 by beta oxidation and the citric acid cycle, so it's expelled (converted) through breath to C02 and through water loss through sweat and urine for example. The glycerol part of that fatty acid chain after beta oxidation is what can be used for gluconeogenesis, which is the making of new glucose. short story. Cheers
Energy is energy. The triglycerides in fat cells are simply stored energy being held in stasis until our body releases it.0 -
sollyn23l2 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »sollyn23l2 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »BarbaraHelen2013 wrote: »As far as I understand it, most of the ‘energy’ is exhaled as Carbon Dioxide when you breathe.
I notice that there’s a definite link with urination in the early days but that’s water balance due to potentially a lower carbohydrate load in your diet. Carbohydrates require water to metabolise.
So, basically what your podcast taught you is accurate.
That's not quite right. The energy is used, not "exhaled." It comes from breaking down complex molecules, and CO2 is the major waste product of that process.
In a way. Yes, you have to "use" the energy by various and sundry activities in order to release it from your cells, but it is ultimately breathed out and expelled. You have to remember, energy cannot be created nor destroyed, merely changed. If we didn't expel it as we breathe, it would stay in our body.
Yes, we are talking about the metabolic breakdown of adipose (body fat) here and not how all energy sources are used per se. Body fat (triglycerides) are basically fatty acids chains with a glycerol backbone that contain chains of carbon, oxygen and hydrogen, which are converted to adenosine triphosphate (ATP) then oxidized to CO2 and H20 by beta oxidation and the citric acid cycle, so it's expelled (converted) through breath to C02 and through water loss through sweat and urine for example. The glycerol part of that fatty acid chain after beta oxidation is what can be used for gluconeogenesis, which is the making of new glucose. short story. Cheers
Energy is energy. The triglycerides in fat cells are simply stored energy being held in stasis until our body releases it.
Triglycerides are fat cells in this context, anyway that wasn't my point. Cheers1 -
neanderthin wrote: »sollyn23l2 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »sollyn23l2 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »BarbaraHelen2013 wrote: »As far as I understand it, most of the ‘energy’ is exhaled as Carbon Dioxide when you breathe.
I notice that there’s a definite link with urination in the early days but that’s water balance due to potentially a lower carbohydrate load in your diet. Carbohydrates require water to metabolise.
So, basically what your podcast taught you is accurate.
That's not quite right. The energy is used, not "exhaled." It comes from breaking down complex molecules, and CO2 is the major waste product of that process.
In a way. Yes, you have to "use" the energy by various and sundry activities in order to release it from your cells, but it is ultimately breathed out and expelled. You have to remember, energy cannot be created nor destroyed, merely changed. If we didn't expel it as we breathe, it would stay in our body.
Yes, we are talking about the metabolic breakdown of adipose (body fat) here and not how all energy sources are used per se. Body fat (triglycerides) are basically fatty acids chains with a glycerol backbone that contain chains of carbon, oxygen and hydrogen, which are converted to adenosine triphosphate (ATP) then oxidized to CO2 and H20 by beta oxidation and the citric acid cycle, so it's expelled (converted) through breath to C02 and through water loss through sweat and urine for example. The glycerol part of that fatty acid chain after beta oxidation is what can be used for gluconeogenesis, which is the making of new glucose. short story. Cheers
Energy is energy. The triglycerides in fat cells are simply stored energy being held in stasis until our body releases it.
Triglycerides are fat cells in this context, anyway that wasn't my point. Cheers
I'm not disagreeing with you. You're mostly right. It's simply that your description overcomplicates the reality of what's happening... which is a form of energy transfer.0 -
sollyn23l2 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »sollyn23l2 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »sollyn23l2 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »BarbaraHelen2013 wrote: »As far as I understand it, most of the ‘energy’ is exhaled as Carbon Dioxide when you breathe.
I notice that there’s a definite link with urination in the early days but that’s water balance due to potentially a lower carbohydrate load in your diet. Carbohydrates require water to metabolise.
So, basically what your podcast taught you is accurate.
That's not quite right. The energy is used, not "exhaled." It comes from breaking down complex molecules, and CO2 is the major waste product of that process.
In a way. Yes, you have to "use" the energy by various and sundry activities in order to release it from your cells, but it is ultimately breathed out and expelled. You have to remember, energy cannot be created nor destroyed, merely changed. If we didn't expel it as we breathe, it would stay in our body.
Yes, we are talking about the metabolic breakdown of adipose (body fat) here and not how all energy sources are used per se. Body fat (triglycerides) are basically fatty acids chains with a glycerol backbone that contain chains of carbon, oxygen and hydrogen, which are converted to adenosine triphosphate (ATP) then oxidized to CO2 and H20 by beta oxidation and the citric acid cycle, so it's expelled (converted) through breath to C02 and through water loss through sweat and urine for example. The glycerol part of that fatty acid chain after beta oxidation is what can be used for gluconeogenesis, which is the making of new glucose. short story. Cheers
Energy is energy. The triglycerides in fat cells are simply stored energy being held in stasis until our body releases it.
Triglycerides are fat cells in this context, anyway that wasn't my point. Cheers
I'm not disagreeing with you. You're mostly right. It's simply that your description overcomplicates the reality of what's happening... which is a form of energy transfer.
A triglyceride as a description for the release of adipose is as simplistic as it gets. That is what this topic is about after all. Tell you what, I won't get into the metabolism of heat, so I don't further complicate it, lol. cheers1 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »BarbaraHelen2013 wrote: »As far as I understand it, most of the ‘energy’ is exhaled as Carbon Dioxide when you breathe.
I notice that there’s a definite link with urination in the early days but that’s water balance due to potentially a lower carbohydrate load in your diet. Carbohydrates require water to metabolise.
So, basically what your podcast taught you is accurate.
That's not quite right. The energy is used, not "exhaled." It comes from breaking down complex molecules, and CO2 is the major waste product of that process.
I agree with this. The "energy" is consumed via heat, movement, and in miscellaneous cellular and biochemical processes that require an input of energy to work. The waste products of breaking down food into energy are water and exhaled gases, primarily CO2. Most of the energy isn't exiting one's body with the waste products. Primarily the energy went elsewhere. (Yes, conservation of energy applies, it isn't created or destroyed, but it can be converted between forms, such as from stored forms - food or body fat - into, for example, into kinetic energy involved in movement.)
Loosely, it's like a car: The gas is burned to create the energy that moves the car down the road, and does some other intra-car utility work. Energy doesn't somehow stay in the car (or body), and energy doesn't primarily leave in the exhaust fumes. Energy (using words loosely) turns into "work".
The human body isn't dramatically different, except that we do have those options for turning food into stored energy. (I guess you could look at the alternator/battery as doing a sort of analogous thing in the car, but batteries can't get obese AFAIK.)3 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »BarbaraHelen2013 wrote: »As far as I understand it, most of the ‘energy’ is exhaled as Carbon Dioxide when you breathe.
I notice that there’s a definite link with urination in the early days but that’s water balance due to potentially a lower carbohydrate load in your diet. Carbohydrates require water to metabolise.
So, basically what your podcast taught you is accurate.
That's not quite right. The energy is used, not "exhaled." It comes from breaking down complex molecules, and CO2 is the major waste product of that process.
I agree with this. The "energy" is consumed via heat, movement, and in miscellaneous cellular and biochemical processes that require an input of energy to work. The waste products of breaking down food into energy are water and exhaled gases, primarily CO2. Most of the energy isn't exiting one's body with the waste products. Primarily the energy went elsewhere. (Yes, conservation of energy applies, it isn't created or destroyed, but it can be converted between forms, such as from stored forms - food or body fat - into, for example, into kinetic energy involved in movement.)
Loosely, it's like a car: The gas is burned to create the energy that moves the car down the road, and does some other intra-car utility work. Energy doesn't somehow stay in the car (or body), and energy doesn't primarily leave in the exhaust fumes. Energy (using words loosely) turns into "work".
The human body isn't dramatically different, except that we do have those options for turning food into stored energy. (I guess you could look at the alternator/battery as doing a sort of analogous thing in the car, but batteries can't get obese AFAIK.)
Yes. This is true. I also think a lot of people have the misunderstanding that after the work is done the energy has been used up and is gone, when really, it's basically been transferred and released, in a simplistic way of speaking. The way it's released is through Neanderthin's explanation. None of this really matters for our purposes, it's just interesting0 -
Searched this clip up on YouTube and watched the whole thing. Am reminded of why I didn’t entirely hate chemistry at school. My brain and waistline both thank you for sharing!
My takeaway. We gain mass in a form which stores excess energy for future use. When we don’t take in sufficient fuel our bodies metabolise those stores, releasing both the saved energy and the mass that stored it. Hence weight loss.
Delightful!3 -
It sure seems like the percentages should be reversed when I have to pee 20 times a day right before a whoosh!3
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It sure seems like the percentages should be reversed when I have to pee 20 times a day right before a whoosh!
It's because (in a lot of cases) a whoosh is a quick release of water retention, not a quick release of fat.
Theory is that the fat loss was creeping along in the background, masked by water retention slowly creeping on (possibly because of diet-related physical stress and cortisol, possibly other reasons). The water can release rather suddenly, unmask the fat loss that had been happening, but that was hidden by the water retention.4 -
It sure seems like the percentages should be reversed when I have to pee 20 times a day right before a whoosh!
It's because (in a lot of cases) a whoosh is a quick release of water retention, not a quick release of fat.
Theory is that the fat loss was creeping along in the background, masked by water retention slowly creeping on (possibly because of diet-related physical stress and cortisol, possibly other reasons). The water can release rather suddenly, unmask the fat loss that had been happening, but that was hidden by the water retention.
I've read that and it sounds like the logical conclusion even though it's apparently a hypothesis at the moment. That would be a very expensive ward study waiting for that to happen and then determining that was the actual cause and the conclusions from a study needs a control for comparison purposes, yeah for sure, way too expensive and never going to happen....It's a good hypothesis and one I'm willing to bet on. Cheers0 -
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10650701/biochemistry-answers-to-weight-loss-questions-where-does-the-weight-go
For those not into the in-depth chemistry just don't let your eyes glaze over, but it will still all make sense.1 -
neanderthin wrote: »It sure seems like the percentages should be reversed when I have to pee 20 times a day right before a whoosh!
It's because (in a lot of cases) a whoosh is a quick release of water retention, not a quick release of fat.
Theory is that the fat loss was creeping along in the background, masked by water retention slowly creeping on (possibly because of diet-related physical stress and cortisol, possibly other reasons). The water can release rather suddenly, unmask the fat loss that had been happening, but that was hidden by the water retention.
I've read that and it sounds like the logical conclusion even though it's apparently a hypothesis at the moment. That would be a very expensive ward study waiting for that to happen and then determining that was the actual cause and the conclusions from a study needs a control for comparison purposes, yeah for sure, way too expensive and never going to happen....It's a good hypothesis and one I'm willing to bet on. Cheers
My bad, casually writing "theory" when "hypothesis" is more strictly accurate.
I haven't seen any hypotheses suggesting that the "whoosh" phenomenon is sudden fat loss - have you? I don't know what the mechanism for such a thing would be.
I've seen too many people here report experiencing whooshes to believe it isn't a real thing, for at least some people. Seems to me it pretty much has to be water weight, since (vernacular) peeing like a race horse beforehand is also commonly reported, as above.
Personally, I've seen multi-pound weight drops overnight in periods of relative calorie stability during maintenance, though my main loss phase didn't have much of that stall then "whoosh" pattern that some others report.1 -
neanderthin wrote: »It sure seems like the percentages should be reversed when I have to pee 20 times a day right before a whoosh!
It's because (in a lot of cases) a whoosh is a quick release of water retention, not a quick release of fat.
Theory is that the fat loss was creeping along in the background, masked by water retention slowly creeping on (possibly because of diet-related physical stress and cortisol, possibly other reasons). The water can release rather suddenly, unmask the fat loss that had been happening, but that was hidden by the water retention.
I've read that and it sounds like the logical conclusion even though it's apparently a hypothesis at the moment. That would be a very expensive ward study waiting for that to happen and then determining that was the actual cause and the conclusions from a study needs a control for comparison purposes, yeah for sure, way too expensive and never going to happen....It's a good hypothesis and one I'm willing to bet on. Cheers
My bad, casually writing "theory" when "hypothesis" is more strictly accurate.
I haven't seen any hypotheses suggesting that the "whoosh" phenomenon is sudden fat loss - have you? I don't know what the mechanism for such a thing would be.
I've seen too many people here report experiencing whooshes to believe it isn't a real thing, for at least some people. Seems to me it pretty much has to be water weight, since (vernacular) peeing like a race horse beforehand is also commonly reported, as above.
Personally, I've seen multi-pound weight drops overnight in periods of relative calorie stability during maintenance, though my main loss phase didn't have much of that stall then "whoosh" pattern that some others report.
There's really no such thing as quick and sudden fat lose. There is however maximum fat oxidation which is some where around 1g/minute, can't remember exactly, which has to do with our V02 max but it's still about CICO and we need about 3500 fewer calories to oxidize 1lb of fat and I haven't heard that described as a whoosh, on the contrary, it's hard work. Water weight on the other hand can be and like you've described a physiological adaption to elevated cortisol or high sodium or eating a lot of carbs(say hello to late night snacking and sugary things) when the prior few days were very low consumption, medication et al and we can literally dump water a lot quicker than we can oxidize fat molecules.
The problem with most research scientists that are worth their salt is, they don't draw conclusions without seeing the actual evidence first and because this hasn't been a specific question where someone was contracted to study this particular phenomena the answer is still up in the air, so to speak, even though the results would be a forgone conclusion that it is water weight that is being shed to expose the weight loss that was happening simply because of the maximum fat oxidation confounder.
Or at least that's my theory/hypothesis
and for the people that may not know why Ann corrected herself when saying it was a "theory" it's a moot point in the context of this discussion really but there is a difference. A theory describes a natural phenomenon that is basically accepted among the scientific community from data collected from research done, basically everyone agrees. An hypothesis is a purposed explanation or basically an educated guess in leu of scientific data that would be hopefully considered logical enough to then apply further scientific rigor. Cheers
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I think Ann is on-point with her hypothesis about the 'whoosh' effect. I have seen some research, which I can't find right now, that shows the body actually replaces the fat in the fat cells with water at least temporarily until the body has reached a certain point of homeostasis and then the water is released during the 'whoosh'.0
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When my stomach growled as a kid, my mom would say,”Oh, that’s just worms”.
I thought the energy was all expended by the worms busy gardening the watermelon seeds that were “gonna grow in your stomach if you keep eating those things.”
We won’t even talk about swallowing gum.
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sollyn23l2 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »BarbaraHelen2013 wrote: »As far as I understand it, most of the ‘energy’ is exhaled as Carbon Dioxide when you breathe.
I notice that there’s a definite link with urination in the early days but that’s water balance due to potentially a lower carbohydrate load in your diet. Carbohydrates require water to metabolise.
So, basically what your podcast taught you is accurate.
That's not quite right. The energy is used, not "exhaled." It comes from breaking down complex molecules, and CO2 is the major waste product of that process.
In a way. Yes, you have to "use" the energy by various and sundry activities in order to release it from your cells, but it is ultimately breathed out and expelled. You have to remember, energy cannot be created nor destroyed, merely changed. If we didn't expel it as we breathe, it would stay in our body.
You're not "using" the energy. You're using the energy. No air quotes. It's real. If you were breathing the energy out, you wouldn't be able to use it to make your heart beats or your feet walk or your cells do all the things we're completely unaware of.1 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »sollyn23l2 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »BarbaraHelen2013 wrote: »As far as I understand it, most of the ‘energy’ is exhaled as Carbon Dioxide when you breathe.
I notice that there’s a definite link with urination in the early days but that’s water balance due to potentially a lower carbohydrate load in your diet. Carbohydrates require water to metabolise.
So, basically what your podcast taught you is accurate.
That's not quite right. The energy is used, not "exhaled." It comes from breaking down complex molecules, and CO2 is the major waste product of that process.
In a way. Yes, you have to "use" the energy by various and sundry activities in order to release it from your cells, but it is ultimately breathed out and expelled. You have to remember, energy cannot be created nor destroyed, merely changed. If we didn't expel it as we breathe, it would stay in our body.
You're not "using" the energy. You're using the energy. No air quotes. It's real. If you were breathing the energy out, you wouldn't be able to use it to make your heart beats or your feet walk or your cells do all the things we're completely unaware of.
This is why I stated energy can neither be created nor destroyed. The energy must, by the law of conservation of energy, be released back out. In a way, you only borrow it. That's the only reason I put quotes around the term use. But, think of it however you like, it's all the same in the end.0
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