Imagining Our Bodies as a Relational Construct: You and Me

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  • ddsb1111
    ddsb1111 Posts: 774 Member
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    shel80kg wrote: »
    Ok...I trusted my body and the popcorn debacle "worked itself out"...or rather, my body did what it needed to do and I have actually lost more weight than I thought. So....the learnings "Grasshopper" is don't obsess when we take a deviation from the pulpit. We are human and need to make mistakes so we can learn about ourselves. I don't need to consume as much "naughty" food as I did a couple of days ago and my body does not deserve to be put on the spot to have to redeem me. It did a great job and I am thankful. But,,,,,,I must have put it in a bit of a pickle having to get rid of so much salt so I will try and be more mindful moving forward. Can't be all or nothing. Not a good idea.

    I really enjoy your musings. I agree with your previous comments about strange concerns, because as individuals, we see what other people do as strange, but it’s not inherently strange when we do anything 😆.

    When you were having a full blown conversation with yourself about popcorn, I thought, who cares? (As in, it’s no problem!). Sometimes you need to have popcorn in order to maintain some sort of equilibrium and to keep going. There is no naughty food or mistakes. There’s balance and harmony. When your body regulates hormones and temperature there’s a range for homeostasis. It’s not- be this exact ideal perfect number everyday or you will die! We have a range and the goal is to maintain balance over time. No need to create problems that don’t exist, that’s letting your old thinking get in your way.

    Dieting doesn’t have to be an existential crisis, know what I mean? When I got back from vacation, and had gained 5 lbs, I wasn’t disappointed because I knew what happened and I knew what to do to autocorrect. If anything those lbs were permission to live my life. And, when I got back, I gave myself permission to settle into being home and get back on track. Have I always been this way? No. I had to learn I wasn’t an outlier, victim, or special snowflake, and touching food didn’t make me blow up and gain 1000 lbs. It took me using data to get the facts straight. And I, personally, can’t argue with the facts. Once I understood that, I could lean on data and not allow my low self-esteem or poor self-worth to tell me lies anymore.

    I just wanted to tell you everything is going to be okay, you’re doing great. Put your trust into the science so it doesn’t have to be so personal. Will power, self-confidence, and motivation, wax and wane and can’t be trusted. Stick to your balanced plan and take as long as it takes. It’s not like we’re going anywhere 🩷.
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 150 Member
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    Dieting doesn’t have to be an existential crisis, know what I mean?

    Love it. I sounded like "eldorko" making popcorn my biggest problem of the weekend. Thanks for making me laugh; but more seriously, put things in perspective. Now...potato chips....that's a different story. JUST KIDDING.
  • ddsb1111
    ddsb1111 Posts: 774 Member
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    shel80kg wrote: »
    Dieting doesn’t have to be an existential crisis, know what I mean?

    Love it. I sounded like "eldorko" making popcorn my biggest problem of the weekend. Thanks for making me laugh; but more seriously, put things in perspective. Now...potato chips....that's a different story. JUST KIDDING.

    😆

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  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 150 Member
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    Your cat is my hero!
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,669 Member
    edited November 2023
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    I need that cat (trained for chocolates and cookies and...)!
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 150 Member
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    Cat got your chips?

    Seriously, low energy today and just wondering if my Ketosis body needs a bit of sugary fuel? I am trying to do the “right” think but feel like an old man today. Wait, I’m 64…Am I being realistic?
    Oh well, one of those days .
  • ddsb1111
    ddsb1111 Posts: 774 Member
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    shel80kg wrote: »
    Cat got your chips?

    Seriously, low energy today and just wondering if my Ketosis body needs a bit of sugary fuel? I am trying to do the “right” think but feel like an old man today. Wait, I’m 64…Am I being realistic?
    Oh well, one of those days .

    Do you think it’s hormonal or that you don’t have enough of those quick fuel calories available to feel energized? Sometimes we do have those days, and they’re a total bummer. And sometimes it’s a sign we need to shift our diet into something practical. Hope it’s just one of those days. Otherwise, adding 150 calories +/- of some energy adding calories sounds like a good call. As my husband would say…

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  • ddsb1111
    ddsb1111 Posts: 774 Member
    edited November 2023
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    qfz76w9d7fre.gif

    My actual cat looks *and acts* like this guy lol. He’s in my profile pic on Mona Lisa’s lap if you look closely (I have this painting in my house). Shout out to all the cat Mom’s/Dad’s out there 👏🏻😍.
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 150 Member
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    Your cat looks scary. I remember a poster I used to have with a black cat similar to yours with the caption.
    "I'm low on esterogen and have a gun.....any questions"?
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 150 Member
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    I had some nice food yesterday and feel a whole lot better. Isn't the relationship between mind and body amazing? We are not just "what we eat" but our emotions are all intertwined in what happens in and because of our gut. Guess it's important to look after both with mindfulness, respect and caution.
  • PAPYRUS3
    PAPYRUS3 Posts: 13,259 Member
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    It's not 'You are what you eat...' it's more 'You eat what you are...'
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 150 Member
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    Good point Papy…
    If we are impulsive, reckless and dissociated kind of folk, well, good luck with consistency and responsible eating.
    I used to chomp into large bars of chocolate with no limitations. Eat the whole damn think without a second thought….or a second of thought. And I wonder why I was relegated to the 4xl sections of shirts at Kmart? Not rocket science.
  • ddsb1111
    ddsb1111 Posts: 774 Member
    edited November 2023
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    shel80kg wrote: »
    Good point Papy…
    If we are impulsive, reckless and dissociated kind of folk, well, good luck with consistency and responsible eating.
    I used to chomp into large bars of chocolate with no limitations. Eat the whole damn think without a second thought….or a second of thought. And I wonder why I was relegated to the 4xl sections of shirts at Kmart? Not rocket science.

    Does Exogenous obesity describe your experience then?

    Excerpt: Exogenous obesity has a psychological or emotional origin. Nowadays, it is the most common form of obesity and mainly occurs due to excessive consumption of food, certain eating habits, and/or undiagnosed eating disorders such as hyperphagia or binge-eating disorder. It is also associated with affective disorders such as depression and anxiety. This type of obesity represents 90-95% of obesity cases.

    One of the difficulties that many therapists encounter is organizing the treatment with these patients. First, because it was believed for a long time that it was a disease that had no place in psychology centers, which was due to the view that the origin was either genetic or organic. Second, because people who requested psychotherapy for this problem did not receive specific treatment due to a lack of knowledge on the part of the professional.

    An Obesity Approach from the Work with Attachment, Trauma and Dissociation

    The proposed approach combines working with attachment, trauma, and dissociation. These three pillars are essential to develop the therapeutic treatment for obesity.

    “When treating attachment, trauma, and dissociation, we cover all those aspects that influence both the appearance of the disease and its development. Many of the cases of obesity find their origin in an attachment disorder since food ends up associated with adverse life experience. In other cases, food becomes the way in which the person learns to survive traumatic experiences and, in others, food is the means through which the person connects with the dissociative experience to regulate themselves or disconnect”.

    Continue to read if this interests you. It was pretty earth shattering for me in the right way.

    https://www.gavinpublishers.com/article/view/key-points-in-the-psychotherapeutic-treatment-of-obesity

    Details on these 3 points are essential IMO: attachment, trauma, and dissociation


    I ate because I didn’t know when my meals were coming, if ever. And I was alone a lot and it was a self soothing technique. I often wondered why other people become obese and I see the response, “I like food a lot” here in the forum. This response doesn’t reflect the 95% of people in the study so far, but it might be too personal to say. For me, it was so much more than that, and personally I didn’t relate obesity being about taste as much as I did with uncertainty.
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 150 Member
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    Hi gang,
    It has been months and I have missed writing here. I have been reflecting on the importance of this thread to me and I would like to breathe life into it again.I have some sensitive and perhaps even controversial topics to explore. I hope we can have some robust and informative discussions.


    My body has certainly changed over the past few months and one of the most interesting byproducts of very substantial weight loss has been how people have "noticed" my thinner physique. I have received some compliments and my emotional response has been suprising. I admit that I have enjoyed the feedback but at the same time I wonder how people perceived me when I was very overweight and never really commented or drew attention to that. I wonder how genuine and authetic these people have been?I know that my emotional state is my responsibility and there is a lot going on in my mind.


    I recall reading a book about weight loss written by an author (can’t recall name) who presented a fascinating bit of insight. The feelings we get when are stomach is “full” can be almost if not identical to similar feelings of love and approval. Hence, we discover (often rather early in life) that food can be a far more safe and reasonable alternative to human love. Further, feelings of hunger and emptiness in our stomach or even cravings can trigger deeper wounds of having felt unloved and uncared for and yes…you guessed it…eating really helps our emotional brain solved that dilemma.

    Weight gain is quite often the “collateral” fall out but our brain is really trying it’s best to solve the emotional distress caused so long ago. If we get a clearer understanding of why we eat what we eat and what we might be feeling at the time….perhaps we can gain more clarity and precision in terms of our emotional needs.

    I am going to begin logging my food intake in an actual food journal with an emphasis on what I am thinking/feeling at the time of eating. This way I can keep track of the food and also the context of you my feelings. So…that might look like would be Date, Time, Food Eaten and Feelings and Circumstances. Might make for interesting analysis. Time for some insight. Thanks for reading.
  • sollyn23l2
    sollyn23l2 Posts: 1,621 Member
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    I think keeping an actual food journal is a great idea. How we feel about food affects what we eat so much. And really, when you think about it, food has been connected to love/security from the day we're born and rely on Mom and Dad to feed us (or not). It makes sense that throughout life, the feeling of being fed is so closely connected to the feeling of being cared for.
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 150 Member
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    Thanks Sollyn 2312. I hadn't considered the association between initial bonding, food source and delivery and parental reliance. Makes perfect sense. Do you think we underestimate the importance of the "early" years of development and learning? I know that some psychologists make this a major focus in therapy. I have changed my mind a number of times over the years and keep returning to the importance of how we might have been influenced/conditioned from an early age to develop our eating patterns. Interested in what all of you think about this?
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 150 Member
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    Oh yes, As a point of interest.... My beautiful wife made a simple yet lovely breakfast for me this morning although I was going to hold fast to intermittment fasting. Neverthless, the two pieces of buttered toast laced with a little bit of cheese and salami beckoned. At first, I resisted and then wondered why I would not allow myself to enjoy this yummy creation. I decided to eat it with a mindful appreciation of the love that went into the preparation and an understanding that I cannot be all or nothing when it comes to eating.

    I really enjoyed the breakfast and will just moderate carbs for the rest of the day. No problem. I have lost over 20kg already so maybe I need to be a bit more balanced now. I like this type of reflection.

    I think we have to be responsible with our eating but not rediculously strict unless we have severe medial conditions. That is different. So...I am tryng to change my mindset and ability to be flexible.
    A first for me.
  • vanmep
    vanmep Posts: 406 Member
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    I enjoy reading your ponderings. I have definitely found that this is a mental and emotional journey as much as anything. In November you made a comment that I think may have been an autocorrect, but I like it and thought it was a profound slip. You said, “I am trying to do the right think.” Maybe that’s what it’s all about.
  • sollyn23l2
    sollyn23l2 Posts: 1,621 Member
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    shel80kg wrote: »
    Thanks Sollyn 2312. I hadn't considered the association between initial bonding, food source and delivery and parental reliance. Makes perfect sense. Do you think we underestimate the importance of the "early" years of development and learning? I know that some psychologists make this a major focus in therapy. I have changed my mind a number of times over the years and keep returning to the importance of how we might have been influenced/conditioned from an early age to develop our eating patterns. Interested in what all of you think about this?

    Yes, I think we do underestimate it. There's an incredible amount of learning and growth at that time. I do, however, think we might have gone too far in the direction of trying to protect them from any and all trauma. It's true that trauma rewires the brain in certain ways, but that's because all learning rewires the brain. It's just that, with trauma, we probably learn some things that aren't so helpful (like feeling hungry means I am unloved and uncared for, for example). But, people are resilient, and I have enough hope to believe that if we can learn one thing, we can learn something new and different.
  • Adventurista
    Adventurista Posts: 402 Member
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    Hi Shel & everyone who've shared thoughts along the way, thought provoking indeed.

    I've also been reading elsewhere ideas on self-care, and this thread on caring for our bodies too when we are making choices, especially balancing our food/eating approach. I would also agree in principal with the sentiment that we don't want to get too rigid with our food plans, but what does this mean, practically speaking?

    So, thought I would share my thoughts about last night's dinner....

    Last night we had take and bake pizza. I stopped after I ate what i had planned, even though my lips smacked 'yummy!!!!' and i wanted that much more again. Stopping at enough was an act of self-care choice for my body (instead of impulse immediate brain pleasure.) I need to ponder and practice this a bit more. I'm used to going for more extending pure pleasure, but i think stopping is a better self-care choice.

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