Imagining Our Bodies as a Relational Construct: You and Me
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EpochAhead, we must have been chanelling one another last night. I made a lamb roast with yummy mashed potatoes and a beautiful salad. I had a bit of bread and salami as I was preparing the little feast for me and my lovely wife. What was significant about this experience is that it is the first time in 4.5 months that I have lashed out and I ate as much as I wanted and it felt like a a decodant eating spree. Carb city. I enjoyed everymouthfull and did not stop eating until I was pleasantly full. I remember wondering how unforgiving the scales would be the next morning but frankly Scarlett, I didn't give a damn.
Guess what, exactly the same weight as the day before. Guess what? I was not kicked out of Keto land. Go figure.
So....my learnings? I am going to try and be less restrictive and more aware of when I feel full and when it is time for me to change the game a bit. Early days and man, like many of you....I have been here before. But this ol' body is 64 and I had better give it some respect and consistency. At the same time, food is not our mortal enemy and our body truly keeps the score (not just with trauma...great book) but with how we treat it and how we fuel the sucker. So.... a new chapter? One sentence at a time.
(Oh yes, by the way...I had a the best sleep in months.....must have been my love for potatoes). Thanks for reading.
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Something I wrote earlier today to someone who is part of the "yo-yo" fraternity of weight loss and weight gain that many of us subscribe to:
I remember one of my favourite mentors at university explain that the skills required to lose weight are completely different to those involved with maintaining the weight we have achieved.
Two different goals likely require separate and well thought out approaches.The first is about breaking the patterns, building momentum and confidence and noticing results which reinforce the changed eating routines.
The second, FAR MORE DIFFICULT. The second, life-style changes and a responsible approach to food and the impact(s) on our bodies over time. Understanding the relationship between mind and body and how we treat ourselves may as important from a psychological perspective as a physical. We are what we eat and often we may find ourselves not just eating to live.....but living to eat.0 -
Something I wrote earlier today to someone who is part of the "yo-yo" fraternity of weight loss and weight gain that many of us subscribe to:
I remember one of my favourite mentors at university explain that the skills required to lose weight are completely different to those involved with maintaining the weight we have achieved.
I have found that they are the same skills. The main difference is that the feedback is different when maintaining fat loss. The scale no longer goes down consistently. Well, it does, but it's punctuated by going up. Down and up. Up and down. It's losing the same five or eight or ten pounds over and over and over and not letting more than that return.
Using a tool like MFP, it's exactly the same with the exception that you get a few more calories in maintenance than in fat loss.
I do agree that it's not easy to maintain. Old ways are hard to keep at bay. It takes continued vigilance. It takes good habits. A wise person sets themself up for success by taking a slow and steady approach to fat loss and uses that time to develop the good habits that they will continue when they are done with the fat loss phase.
Was your mentor a professor? What was the class?2 -
Hi mtaratoot,
The mentor was/is a professor in Psychology with a speciality in motivation and addiction. He provided clinical evidence and longitudinal case studies on the dieting and maintenance as two separate and distince processes which I found useful (and convincing).
Most people become quite successful at losing weight. These same individuals are more likely than not at gaining back the weight and even more than they started at baseline. The prof's conclusion which I think is pretty accurate is that the choices and decisions change when the weight is lost and indivdiuals are faced with the long term process of maintaing and establishing longer term patterns and habits. Habit formation and the the neuropathways necessary for more established and entrenched responses to hunger (and often other less physcial and more psychological reasons for eating ) are often side-stepped during the "dieting phase" but activate almost without mercy once weight loss has been achieved.
Sadly, most people ascribe to you your view that the skill sets are the same and if that was true, why do a vast number of individuals succeed with dieting but simply fail at maintaining the body weight they worked so hard to achieve?
I think it is imperative that we see the two processes as different because they are. My personal view is that the "diet industry" counts on individuals constantly cycling from weight loss to weight gain and this in a large part due to the unsustainability of dieting and the lack of education and support for the longer term necessity of healthy, appropriate eating and self-care habits.
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Hi mtaratoot,
The mentor was/is a professor in Psychology with a speciality in motivation and addiction. He provided clinical evidence and longitudinal case studies on the dieting and maintenance as two separate and distince processes which I found useful (and convincing).
Most people become quite successful at losing weight. These same individuals are more likely than not at gaining back the weight and even more than they started at baseline. The prof's conclusion which I think is pretty accurate is that the choices and decisions change when the weight is lost and indivdiuals are faced with the long term process of maintaing and establishing longer term patterns and habits. Habit formation and the the neuropathways necessary for more established and entrenched responses to hunger (and often other less physcial and more psychological reasons for eating ) are often side-stepped during the "dieting phase" but activate almost without mercy once weight loss has been achieved.
Sadly, most people ascribe to you your view that the skill sets are the same and if that was true, why do a vast number of individuals succeed with dieting but simply fail at maintaining the body weight they worked so hard to achieve?
I think it is imperative that we see the two processes as different because they are. My personal view is that the "diet industry" counts on individuals constantly cycling from weight loss to weight gain and this in a large part due to the unsustainability of dieting and the lack of education and support for the longer term necessity of healthy, appropriate eating and self-care habits.
Most people may believe that the two processes, loss and maintenance are the same . . . but very many do not seem to behave in accord with that belief when losing. It is very common here to see the "lose weight fast" approach to the loss phase, with restrictive eating rules and punitively intense exercise; or falling into whatever the trend of the moment is for popular named-diet weight loss approaches.
I don't know for sure what happens in those cases, but many of the people following that kind of approach usually disappear from MFP quite quickly. Some return with "back again, regained" posts. Some do persist until goal weight is attained, but post in ways that suggest they're floundering a bit when they reach maintenance.
I obviously haven't done a formal study, but it seems like a lot of the people who do stay here and are long term successful at maintaining loss do behave during weight loss as if they believe it's necessary to identify and establish new, permanent habits. They may not go all the way through loss with that philosophy, but do have a phase during loss where they basically "train for maintenance".
I do agree with @mtaratoot that the loss and maintenance skill sets are quite similar . . . but in a context where I saw the loss phase as about finding new, sustainable habits I could stick with long term in order to maintain.
I feel like the difference between those who say (and behave as if) the essential skill sets are the same are taking a different from common approach to the loss phase. For myself, I was very determined not to do anything to lose weight that I wasn't willing to continue doing forever to stay at a healthy weight, other than a sensibly moderate calorie deficit until I reached goal weight. That put a premium on finding relatively easy, relatively happy new habits and practicing them until they could happen almost on autopilot.
I've seen another long-term maintainer here suggest that others "treat maintenance as if one still has 10 pounds to lose", which is a slightly different take, but a similar idea - to make the process the same for both loss and maintenance.
Many, many people treat loss as a project with an end date, after which things "go back to normal". That's a recipe for regain. For someone like me, who has a tendency to become overweight, weight management is a forever endeavor, lifelong. The loss phase is just an on-ramp to forever, ideally, IMO.
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Hi mtaratoot,
The mentor was/is a professor in Psychology with a speciality in motivation and addiction. He provided clinical evidence and longitudinal case studies on the dieting and maintenance as two separate and distince processes which I found useful (and convincing).
Most people become quite successful at losing weight. These same individuals are more likely than not at gaining back the weight and even more than they started at baseline. The prof's conclusion which I think is pretty accurate is that the choices and decisions change when the weight is lost and indivdiuals are faced with the long term process of maintaing and establishing longer term patterns and habits. Habit formation and the the neuropathways necessary for more established and entrenched responses to hunger (and often other less physcial and more psychological reasons for eating ) are often side-stepped during the "dieting phase" but activate almost without mercy once weight loss has been achieved.
Sadly, most people ascribe to you your view that the skill sets are the same and if that was true, why do a vast number of individuals succeed with dieting but simply fail at maintaining the body weight they worked so hard to achieve?
I think it is imperative that we see the two processes as different because they are. My personal view is that the "diet industry" counts on individuals constantly cycling from weight loss to weight gain and this in a large part due to the unsustainability of dieting and the lack of education and support for the longer term necessity of healthy, appropriate eating and self-care habits.
I agree with some of what your professor suggests, but not all. Many people (I don't know if I'd say most) are indeed successful at losing weight. Many of those people (here I might actually say most) do gain back the weight they lost, often as they say "with friends." The National Weight Control Registry has data to show this is extremely common, and it happens within three years.
Losing and regaining weight is possibly worse than not losing at all even if you don't gain back more than you started with. In a loss phase, we lose fat AND muscle. In a gain phase without strength training, we get back fat. The person who loses and gains back to the same weight likely is at a higher body fat than before due to muscle loss. Pretty sad.
Where disagree is that it's a different process. My process for losing weight (fat) is: find a calorie goal and try to meet that calorie goal. My process for sustaining fat loss is: find a calorie goal and try to meet that calorie goal. It's exactly the same process. The difference is that going from a goal to lose a half pound a week to maintaining fat loss is I get an extra two ounces of cheese per day.
I believe the reason that people gain back is that they don't stick with the process. They view weight loss as a "one and done" kind of thing, and then they go back to the old ways. One thing people can (and I say should) do during fat loss is develop good habits. These habits shouldn't be punishment. They should be habits that the person can continue indefinitely. Then when the fat is gone, the person can just keep on chugging, but they can have that extra two ounces of cheese, twelve ounces of beer, or cup of cooked brown rice.
It's the same process.
The problem is when people stop using the process. If you do what you've done in the past but expect a different result is what Albert Einstein suggested was the definition of insanity.
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By treating the continuum as two distinct phases you are guaranteeing that you are not spending the first half/third/quarter/fifth/tenth of the timeline setting yourself up as best as possible for the remainder.
A simple example would be excess deficits that are likely to shed huge amounts of weight while creating a perfect rebound storm that will pounce when you lift the pedal from the floor. Another simple example would be relying on different types of food and different type of exercise or activity levels between the loss and maintenance phases.
If you start by seeking out the long term tools you will need to continue to employ you just might increase your chances of making it and continuing to make it.
Of course, if you are part of a fully supported study that includes long term follow up including dietary and psychological support before and after the weight intervention then maybe you won't have to spend the time to develop tools and coping mechanisms because they will be magically presented to you when you need them.
For the rest of us... we will probably be better off if we successfully invest the time we are losing weight in the development of habits and strategies we can keep to long term. i.e. in large part losing as we intend to keep maintaining.5 -
PAV8888, like many others on these forums, you responded with the type of logic which implies that guys like me"don't get it" and dieting and maintaining weight loss involve the same skills.
With respect, you appear to be missing the main point ( paraphrased by me but presented in scholarly fashion by a Psychologist with decades of experience in addiction and weight loss).
Here it is in more simple terms:
1. Individuals who truly struggle with obesity often "flip a switch" of some sort when they have had enough of whatever upsets them in relation to their body image. In a rather sudden and perhaps ill thought out way, they tend to be more motivated and passionate about dieting.Hence the embracing of diet fads and "quick fix" implementations in food consumption and "gym memberships".
These individuals utilize the skills of "white knuckling" suppress their cravings and impulses and go almost always into deprivation and rapid reduction of food consumption.
Obviously, these folks are reinforced with (relatively) rapid results and a sense of success.
2. The research on weight loss and maintaining a healthy body indicates that a majority of people who lose weight (and in particular lose weight quickly) are unable to maintain the newly established weight loss because they require deeper knowledge, understanding and practice with healthy eating habits and patterns.
Your rather long response ignores the sad and stark reality of weight -gain recidivism.
Individuals who engage in rapid dieting are driven (and motivated by) fast results, and external support and encouragement.....
These same Individuals are then required to focus on maintaining a healthy eating regime. But what have they learned and practiced. Dieting tends NOT to promote this and the person who has worked so hard to shed the weight may not have learned anything that may ensure ongoing success. That is reality.
Therefore, the skills required to create successful maintenance of a healthy body require a shift in attitude, enduring behavioural patterns, reduction in instant gratification and promotion of delayed rewards and a deeper understanding of the impact various foods have on the metabolic machinery.
I am not saying you are wrong or misguided in your previous responses. My view is you attempted to simplify and sidestep the obvious tendencies of a majority of dieters who are very good at getting the weight down but not equipped with the appropriate skills necessary for maintenance.
In my view, this is a common misperception and one main reason (perhaps) why people who are unable to keep the weight off are often misunderstood and demonised by those who think it is "just so straight forward"
Interested in what others think.
Shel
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@shel80kg
Shel,
I don't think there's disagreement with what happens or even the motivation for people to go on unsustainable diets that only work for a while if at all.
I think it is representative of a deeper problem. I can't say whether this is the case in cultures other than USA, so it's a limited observation. I suspect that some cultural norms from USA do travel abroad. What I see is that people have trouble with delayed gratification. Right now is not soon enough. Delayed gratification - working now for something desirable in the future - is a skill that can serve us well.
When I was working, I would always be amazed when people would routinely buy new cars. Fancy trucks. On credit. Their previous vehicle hadn't even been paid off yet. They would buy new boats and trailers. For sure they had some fun toys, but they couldn't use them very often because they had to work more to try to deal with the debt - sometimes taking side jobs in addition to reasonably well-paying full-time government jobs.
I know that credit card debt is a burden that a lot of people have to deal with. It's a hole that digs itself deeper and deeper. Some people can change their habits, be a bit more frugal, and work towards paying some of them down or off before incurring more debt. Some people even overcome it. I have a friend who only got over it after a bankruptcy. She could get a credit card again, but refuses just to make sure she doesn't fall back into that trap. Kudos on her for saving enough money to buy a tiny property and build a tiny house without a mortgage just so she could avoid debt.
We recently had an ice storm. People were livid that the City didn't plow the streets. This was an ICE storm, not a snow storm. We don't get a lot of winter weather, so we don't have many plows. The plows we have are rubber-tipped. There's no way they could get through the ice. That didn't matter - people needed it done yesterday.
Road rage is an issue. If a person were to be nice and let someone else merge, it might slow them down by six seconds. Maybe more if it made them miss a traffic light. Now we're up to 36 seconds. This is maybe a weak example of delayed gratification. Then again, people paid all that money for the fancy new car, it's almost kind of interesting they wouldn't try to maximize the time they spend in it by letting someone else merge.
There's lots more examples. Needing to lose weight immediately is a symptom of the same syndrome. It stems from an unrealistic of the work-reward model. It is indeed unfortunate that when that "switch gets flipped" as you mentioned, people don't take a moment to think about developing a safe and effective approach. It is unfortunate that they believe some of the marketing that tells them there's magic to be had from {insert fast loss model duur jour}. Do you remember Martina Navratilova's "potato diet?" High carb. People today would be aghast. Remember the cabbage soup diet? Are people still doing that? Grapefruit diet? Same deal. Promises made for fast results. Failure almost always ensues even if there's some initial success. While the results from the "Marshmallow Experiment" were debunked, the practice of delayed gratification could serve people well. For six centuries people have written that "Patience is a Virtue." Many people in our modern culture have a real challenge practicing it. For fat loss, it's critical.
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"Would that there were an award for people who come to understand the concept of enough. Good enough." -- Gail Sheehy2
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PAV8888, like many others on these forums, you responded with the type of logic which implies that guys like me"don't get it" and dieting and maintaining weight loss involve the same skills.
With respect, you appear to be missing the main point ( paraphrased by me but presented in scholarly fashion by a Psychologist with decades of experience in addiction and weight loss).
Here it is in more simple terms:
1. Individuals who truly struggle with obesity often "flip a switch" of some sort when they have had enough of whatever upsets them in relation to their body image. In a rather sudden and perhaps ill thought out way, they tend to be more motivated and passionate about dieting.Hence the embracing of diet fads and "quick fix" implementations in food consumption and "gym memberships".
These individuals utilize the skills of "white knuckling" suppress their cravings and impulses and go almost always into deprivation and rapid reduction of food consumption.
Obviously, these folks are reinforced with (relatively) rapid results and a sense of success.
2. The research on weight loss and maintaining a healthy body indicates that a majority of people who lose weight (and in particular lose weight quickly) are unable to maintain the newly established weight loss because they require deeper knowledge, understanding and practice with healthy eating habits and patterns.
Your rather long response ignores the sad and stark reality of weight -gain recidivism.
Individuals who engage in rapid dieting are driven (and motivated by) fast results, and external support and encouragement.....
These same Individuals are then required to focus on maintaining a healthy eating regime. But what have they learned and practiced. Dieting tends NOT to promote this and the person who has worked so hard to shed the weight may not have learned anything that may ensure ongoing success. That is reality.
Therefore, the skills required to create successful maintenance of a healthy body require a shift in attitude, enduring behavioural patterns, reduction in instant gratification and promotion of delayed rewards and a deeper understanding of the impact various foods have on the metabolic machinery.
I am not saying you are wrong or misguided in your previous responses. My view is you attempted to simplify and sidestep the obvious tendencies of a majority of dieters who are very good at getting the weight down but not equipped with the appropriate skills necessary for maintenance.
In my view, this is a common misperception and one main reason (perhaps) why people who are unable to keep the weight off are often misunderstood and demonised by those who think it is "just so straight forward"
Interested in what others think.
Shel
I'm confused.
You say that the problem is that maintenance isn't like loss, but is a different process, and that's why people fail.
You then describe a scenario (your #1) where people adopt a "quick fix" mindset, then find (your #2) that the practices that were good for "quick fix" aren't sustainable long term.
In my view, that's literally saying that the process those people use for weight loss doesn't work for maintenance, i.e., they're not using the same process in practice. Maybe they're trying, I have no idea. But it fails. On that, we agree. Maybe they believe the same process will work, but they find that it doesn't, because they can't sustain it. Their behavior during loss is a different process than their behavior during maintenance: Different process.
I think we all agree (maybe?) that a mindset shift is necessary, probably including your professor. I think one aspect of what @mtaratoot, @PAV8888 and I are saying is the the needed mindset shift is the realization that the loss process needs to be the same process as maintenance, i.e., weight loss as maintenance practice (for part of weight loss, at least). In other words, that the process for losing needs to be pretty much the same as the process for maintenance, and that in the common "quick fix' case, it's the loss process that's the problem. It's not sustainable.
mtaratoot, PAV, and I are coming from an experiential standpoint: We've all lost weight (a lot of weight in PAV's case at least) and maintained the loss. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like your professor is coming from a more theoretical standpoint. Saying why the common case doesn't work is good. Figuring out what does work is better. I think the insight that loss at some point needs to follow a path that will work in maintenance is a useful, applied, experiential insight.
Certainly that's where I'm coming from in saying that the loss process and the maintenance process are the same process. In my view, for me they've been very much the same process, except for a temporary sensibly-moderate calorie deficit during loss. My commitment to myself was not to do anything during loss that I wasn't willing to continue forever to stay at a healthy weight, except for that moderate calorie deficit: No special exercise, no special eating rules. I've been at a healthy weight for going on 8 years now, after 30 previous years of overweight/obesity. So far, at least, for me the "one process" approach has worked.
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PAV8888, like many others on these forums, you responded with the type of logic which implies that guys like me"don't get it" and dieting and maintaining weight loss involve the same skills.
With respect, you appear to be missing the main point ( paraphrased by me but presented in scholarly fashion by a Psychologist with decades of experience in addiction and weight loss).
Here it is in more simple terms:
1. Individuals who truly struggle with obesity often "flip a switch" of some sort when they have had enough of whatever upsets them in relation to their body image. In a rather sudden and perhaps ill thought out way, they tend to be more motivated and passionate about dieting.Hence the embracing of diet fads and "quick fix" implementations in food consumption and "gym memberships".
These individuals utilize the skills of "white knuckling" suppress their cravings and impulses and go almost always into deprivation and rapid reduction of food consumption.
Obviously, these folks are reinforced with (relatively) rapid results and a sense of success.
2. The research on weight loss and maintaining a healthy body indicates that a majority of people who lose weight (and in particular lose weight quickly) are unable to maintain the newly established weight loss because they require deeper knowledge, understanding and practice with healthy eating habits and patterns.
Your rather long response ignores the sad and stark reality of weight -gain recidivism.
Individuals who engage in rapid dieting are driven (and motivated by) fast results, and external support and encouragement.....
These same Individuals are then required to focus on maintaining a healthy eating regime. But what have they learned and practiced. Dieting tends NOT to promote this and the person who has worked so hard to shed the weight may not have learned anything that may ensure ongoing success. That is reality.
Therefore, the skills required to create successful maintenance of a healthy body require a shift in attitude, enduring behavioural patterns, reduction in instant gratification and promotion of delayed rewards and a deeper understanding of the impact various foods have on the metabolic machinery.
I am not saying you are wrong or misguided in your previous responses. My view is you attempted to simplify and sidestep the obvious tendencies of a majority of dieters who are very good at getting the weight down but not equipped with the appropriate skills necessary for maintenance.
In my view, this is a common misperception and one main reason (perhaps) why people who are unable to keep the weight off are often misunderstood and demonised by those who think it is "just so straight forward"
Interested in what others think.
Shel
I'm confused.
You say that the problem is that maintenance isn't like loss, but is a different process, and that's why people fail.
You then describe a scenario (your #1) where people adopt a "quick fix" mindset, then find (your #2) that the practices that were good for "quick fix" aren't sustainable long term.
In my view, that's literally saying that the process those people use for weight loss doesn't work for maintenance, i.e., they're not using the same process in practice. Maybe they're trying, I have no idea. But it fails. On that, we agree. Maybe they believe the same process will work, but they find that it doesn't, because they can't sustain it. Their behavior during loss is a different process than their behavior during maintenance: Different process.
I think we all agree (maybe?) that a mindset shift is necessary, probably including your professor. I think one aspect of what @mtaratoot, @PAV8888 and I are saying is the the needed mindset shift is the realization that the loss process needs to be the same process as maintenance, i.e., weight loss as maintenance practice (for part of weight loss, at least). In other words, that the process for losing needs to be pretty much the same as the process for maintenance, and that in the common "quick fix' case, it's the loss process that's the problem. It's not sustainable.
mtaratoot, PAV, and I are coming from an experiential standpoint: We've all lost weight (a lot of weight in PAV's case at least) and maintained the loss. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like your professor is coming from a more theoretical standpoint. Saying why the common case doesn't work is good. Figuring out what does work is better. I think the insight that loss at some point needs to follow a path that will work in maintenance is a useful, applied, experiential insight.
Certainly that's where I'm coming from in saying that the loss process and the maintenance process are the same process. In my view, for me they've been very much the same process, except for a temporary sensibly-moderate calorie deficit during loss. My commitment to myself was not to do anything during loss that I wasn't willing to continue forever to stay at a healthy weight, except for that moderate calorie deficit: No special exercise, no special eating rules. I've been at a healthy weight for going on 8 years now, after 30 previous years of overweight/obesity. So far, at least, for me the "one process" approach has worked.
Absolutely. I'll add to that that I think where people run into issues with this is that people are bad... like.... really, really bad... at understanding and predicting what kinds of behaviors they will be able to sustain long term. I know I've seen many people who go into an extreme diet fully and wholeheartedly believing that their new super restrictive, puritanical diet is their new "forever" diet. Until they realize they can't be happy on just meat forever, or living on 1000 calories a day forever, or fruitarian forever, or what have you.2 -
Maybe taking a step back and looking at it differently would help.
The "quick fix" approach is NOT "the process" to lose weight. It's the process to temporarily lose weight, ring the bell, and then quit. That clearly doesn't work for many.
The "build habits" process is actually "the process" both to lose weight and to keep it off. Both require a person to "stick to it."
I could come up with some bad analogies, but I'll refrain this once to keep it short. Maybe one: One process to running a distance running race (or bike race or swimming race) that is almost certain to fail is to sprint from the starting line and keep it up as long as possible. You might even be out front for a little while. But it's not sustainable. The process for finishing the race would not be to go at a reasonable pace from the start and STICK TO IT. That is much more likely to get you to the finish line, and it's the same process at the beginning and all the way through. The difference is that at the end of the race you stop. With weight management, you can't stop. You have to keep that pace going indefinitely.
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My apologies as I think I confused (even) myself and you have all been very kind, patient and respectful to this discussion. I really liked the metaphor of the "sprint" vs the "marathon" as that captures what I think both the professor and I were reflecting on.
Both involve running, but one is less sustainable. The "marathon" requires different skills, attitude and a longer term commitment.
Now I realize that I need to accept that our endeavours to loose weight and keep ourselves in the healthy zone might best be framed as a continuum of sorts but the emphasis may shift as we approach "goal" weight and dieting morphs into established and sustainable eating (and exercise) patterns and choices.
Again, my apologies for my rather poor and confusing responses. I really do appreciate the wisdom and expertise available on the platform and I hope I have not offended anyone.
Shel
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Two different goals likely require separate and well thought out approaches.The first is about breaking the patterns, building momentum and confidence and noticing results which reinforce the changed eating routines.
The second, FAR MORE DIFFICULT. The second, life-style changes and a responsible approach to food and the impact(s) on our bodies over time. Understanding the relationship between mind and body and how we treat ourselves may as important from a psychological perspective as a physical.
I’ve been really struggling to understand what he means. I had to pull myself out of the physical process and the long term plan it takes to make losing weight and maintaining that weight loss successful. Because, to me, that’s the entire point.
1. Lose weight
2. Maintain indefinitely
How do we do that?
Answer: Create a lifestyle that allows you to burn more calories than you use. Then do the exact same thing with slightly more calories.
Then I put the emphasis on the word “approach”. Approach doesn’t mean plan, it means, by definition, a way of dealing with something. Perhaps he’s saying the way one emotionally deals with losing weight and the way one emotionally deals with keeping it off are different.
I suppose, emotionally, seeing the results of my plan would give me momentum and make me happy. I also suppose that I need to break-up with my emotional attachment to the way I ate/lived before to help me build new emotional connections with my new patterns and behaviors.
The second phase he mentions is understanding the connection between mind and body. I have to admit, I don’t see the approach part here. Maybe it has something to do with approaching yourself with kindness and making the decision every single day to do something good for yourself, like brushing your teeth, taking care of your body, things like that. I don’t see how that’s different than the first phase, but possibly it’s the self love you’re choosing even though you’re at your goal weight and not because you want to be at your goal weight? It’s the shift of doing things because they’re good for you and you love yourself and not because you want something like a certain BF % or number on the scale.
I sense the motives in his theory are based on emotions and not on what process works. How he can deduce what emotional approach works from one person to another is beyond me, I wasn’t there for the lecture, but I'm happy it connected with you and made you want to approach weight loss in a healthier way.
Sorry if I’m completely off base here.1 -
My first response ddsb1111 is...what on Earth does your name mean? I struggle with understanding if it is an acronym of some sort or if it has some hidden symbolic meaning that has no real relevance to anyone other than you....
I suppose this is my way of saying, I do not really need you to pick apart each of my words and phrases as if you are required to analyze my thought processes and quality of expression. I was forgiving (and even appreciative) of several of the other responses which offerred what I considered to be helpful, thoughtful and challenging points of clarification and meaningful criticisms of my suggestions related to dieting and maintenance .
In the case of your response, I just find myself irritated.
And I do not appreciate you referring to me in "third person". That was just rude. I have always tried to present my views in an honest and sincere manner and of course there is a significant emotional component to discussing weight management and approaches both short and long term. Dismissing or minimising my comments as "emotional" is offensive.
I do not think I am going to continue this thread.
S
(I was not promulgating a theory by the way. Just ideas)
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My first response ddsb1111 is...what on Earth does your name mean? I struggle with understand if it is an acronym of some sort or if it has some hidden symbolic meaning that has no real relevance to anyone other than you....
I suppose this is my way of saying, I do not really need you to pick apart each of my words and phrases as if you are required to analyze my thought processes and quality of expression. I was forgiving (and even appreciative) of several of the other responses which offerred what I considered to be helpful, thoughtful and challenging points of clarification and meaningful criticisms of my suggestions related to dieting and maintenance .
In the case of your response, I just find myself irritated.
And I do not appreciate you referring to me in "third person". That was just rude.
S
(I was not promulgating a theory by the way. Just ideas)
I
The “he” is your professor. I was talking to you about your professor. I was also trying to make the connection with you. I’m sorry.2 -
Hi Shel,
I appreciated your post from yesterday where you shared your thinking about the sprint/marathon analogy. I think that it was heartfelt, and it showed you were open to looking at things through a different lens. That's a great way to approach personal growth. I commend you for being so open about it.
Might I suggest not to take things too personally? I'm not sure if @ddsb1111 was speaking directly to you in her writing, speaking to others here, or speaking possibly about your mentor. I sincerely doubt she was trying to be offensive; however I could be wrong.
People will disagree with ideas here. It's encouraged. We can do it civilly. That's expected. Thank you for continuing to be civil. I look forward to future dialogue about many other aspects of health, fitness, and nutrition.4 -
Thank you for your prompt responses and my sense is that ddsb1111 was not trying to be offensive. I certainly accept that. I do not mind debate and I value critical thinking which is so important in the pursuit of knowledge and insight. I am prone to my own emotional reactions and I know I need to do more to not take things personally. That may be my greatest weakness. I will give more thought to my knee jerk response and reread her text with less sensitivity. Thank you
2 -
May I just add that it is extremely refreshing how this dialogue is so respectful of diverse opinions and the way they are addressed. Thank you to everyone. This is a good example of the way the MFP community is supposed to work.
Sometimes things devolve. Sometimes they get brought back to civility. Sometimes they get moved over to the Debate area. Sometimes they get squashed out of existence. This one is both informative AND respectful.
Just wow.
4
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