Imagining Our Bodies as a Relational Construct: You and Me

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  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 161 Member
    Well, it has been months since my last message and I have missed the experience of both writing and reading intelligent discord related to the never-ending process of weight and health management.

    I reached my goal by mid to late June and felt rather chuffed. Such a difficult and intense journey from 133kgs(ish) to 80kgs. Probably did it a bit too rigorously and intensely but that is kind of how I am wired. I am sure I have ADHD and cannot do too many things at the same time. Focusing on eating well and exercising combined with full time work as a therapist and supporting my wife with Alzheimer's. has kept my cup full (beyond belief).

    I am bit disappointed with myself as I have gained somewhere between 5 to 8 kgs and I am trying to flip the switch back to what I was doing before I let myself be carried down the "slippery slope" for the umpteenth time. I imagine some of you can relate. And others of you are shaking your head thinking "this idiot will never change. there are no short cuts or easy solutions. maintenance is just as important as losing and one has to be clear and vigilant in both in stances".

    I do agree. I have had too many fast foods and junk foods (highly processed and packed with calories) and my poor body has had no choice but to digest and store..and store....and store. (I am sure I was a refrigerator in another life. Hmmmm are inanimate objects considered a possibility by the Buddhists?)

    And. I did something crazy. I signed up on Diet Bet have have to be 82 kg by October 30th. I have 200.00 on the line. Thought that might help with motivation I know I know. The smart "Gurus" here are going to tell me that 8 kg in 3 weeks is a ridiculous goal. But, I am going to try. Here is my plan:
    1. Fast for 3 days per week
    2. Intermitent fast for the other days (in other words 16:8)
    3. Keep calories to 500 calories a day if I can
    4. Exercise 1 hour a day (minimum).
    5. Take supplements and keep track of blood pressure and heart rate etc each day).

    Please tell me it's possible? I am going to do my best not to put myself in this position again.. My thinking is that I probably don't weigh 90 kg as a result of body fat and may lose a bit of water during the first 3 day fast so that may mean I have a bit of leeway but I won't know that for the next 48 hours. We will see.

    My reflection on this mess I have created is that I am terrified of becoming morbidly obese again. I can still run up to 5 kg in about an hour (remembering that I am 65 and I guess I shuffle rather than jog). I am not in terrible shape but if I don't do something drastic...for me.... I am pretty sure all my good work could easily be undone.

    A GP said to me recently (after noting my weight loss over the year) that he believes that I have a 1/500 chance of keeping the weight off. Why would he say that? I found that so depressing. But...I am going to do what it takes to be the 1 in 500. I will do my best.

    I look forward to your thoughts. Be honest. I know you will think I am nuts...but I have to get to the goal in 3 weeks.

    Thanks for reading
    Shel
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,264 Member
    The writing is on the (your) wall, so to speak, and I have to agree with your Doctor about the 1/500 chance, but keep in mind almost everyone fails dieting and if some said to me that 9 out of 10 students are failing in school, I'd say, it's probably not the student and more about the teacher. Good luck though, and I mean that, but I have to ask, if your successful what are you going to do then?
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 161 Member
    Well Neanderthal, you are not known for your subtlety and your message was no exception. I kind of wish the first response was not yours....or at least your hard hitting approach but if I set aside my emotive response to your rather "cryptic" wisdom I will say that I have amended by plan to not starve myself as I planned. I am just going to be as careful as possible. If I reach the goal I reach it. If not, then I will have moved myself closer to the importance of having a sustainable long term plan which is imperative for us "yo-yo" weight losers. Thanks for answering regardless.
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 161 Member
    pardon. Neanderthin (auto-check corrected it but maybe a Freudian slip)? Just kidding
  • Lietchi
    Lietchi Posts: 6,885 Member
    shel80kg wrote: »
    Well Neanderthal, you are not known for your subtlety and your message was no exception. I kind of wish the first response was not yours....or at least your hard hitting approach but if I set aside my emotive response to your rather "cryptic" wisdom I will say that I have amended by plan to not starve myself as I planned. I am just going to be as careful as possible. If I reach the goal I reach it. If not, then I will have moved myself closer to the importance of having a sustainable long term plan which is imperative for us "yo-yo" weight losers. Thanks for answering regardless.

    Well, the first reaction was nearly mine, but I decided to think a bit more before reacting :wink:
    I'm glad to see you've amended your plan to not starve yourself, because one of my points was going to be that you don't want to 'throw away' muscle mass at 65 years old by starving yourself.

    I get it, that fear of regaining. It is all a mental game. I lost from 94kg to (nearly) 60kg and actually never really reached my goal weight. I managed to have a number of weigh-ins below 60kg but my weight trend never got there as my mind went 'OK, you've done it, you can relax now'. That relaxing meant that I was taking a certain margin on my calorie goal, evening snacking being the main culprit.
    I credit my frequent running (and my Garmin watch that underestimates my calorie burn) for only a slight regain - 2-3kg. But it has been really hard to get my mind into a more restrictive mindset again. Sometimes I manage a slight deficit a few months, but if anything disturbs the equilibrium, it's hard to get back on the horse.
    I just went on holiday for three weeks in France (calorie goal out the window) and the past week at home hasn't been much better with several family parties etc.
    The one thing I cling to during these 'updrifts' (and periods of more control) is keeping up my activity level to limit the damage and focusing on other goals (step count, running speed, trying to create a strength training habit,...).
    No magic solution from me, I'm afraid...
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,264 Member
    shel80kg wrote: »
    Well Neanderthal, you are not known for your subtlety and your message was no exception. I kind of wish the first response was not yours....or at least your hard hitting approach but if I set aside my emotive response to your rather "cryptic" wisdom I will say that I have amended by plan to not starve myself as I planned. I am just going to be as careful as possible. If I reach the goal I reach it. If not, then I will have moved myself closer to the importance of having a sustainable long term plan which is imperative for us "yo-yo" weight losers. Thanks for answering regardless.

    I don't have a problem with taking "drastic" action to help mitigate a course of action that is unhealthy. It's 3 weeks and we're not a fragile species and have endured for a few million years wondering where our next meal is coming from and it's been that way until very recently. Our genome has adapted to survive these scarce times and actually there's mechanisms that ensure our survival where the upregulation of many hormones takes place. Unfortunately there's this belief that unless we consume food multiple time a day and get enough protein and actually missing a whole day of eating, we're going to fade away and all understanding of health fades into dark and an implosion is immanent, yeah, no, not the case.

    I would contact a lifestyle clinic that deals with this plaque that most western cultures are now enduring, it's really not that complicated and personally I think it's vital that we start to think more holistically than reductive when it comes to our health and suspect for long term health those odds of 1/500 go up substantially.

  • tulips_and_tea
    tulips_and_tea Posts: 5,744 Member
    As you said, "Focusing on eating well and exercising combined with full time work as a therapist and supporting my wife with Alzheimer's. has kept my cup full (beyond belief).", that is a LOT for anyone to handle. I hope you have some support with your spouse. Being a full-time care giver is a long, difficult task. You must take care of your health first and foremost.

    I'm not going to comment on your plan or your weight loss bet. Your body, your choice. I will note that you said fast food and highly processed foods have added to your re-gain. Normal, of course, but can you make healthier alternatives? Or batch cook and have food in the fridge or freezer for those "grab something now!" times? Just noting that having an alternate plan for those times may help you in the long run. Good luck to you!
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,617 Member
    shel80kg wrote: »
    Well Neanderthal, you are not known for your subtlety and your message was no exception. I kind of wish the first response was not yours....or at least your hard hitting approach but if I set aside my emotive response to your rather "cryptic" wisdom I will say that I have amended by plan to not starve myself as I planned. I am just going to be as careful as possible. If I reach the goal I reach it. If not, then I will have moved myself closer to the importance of having a sustainable long term plan which is imperative for us "yo-yo" weight losers. Thanks for answering regardless.

    @shel80kg: I'll say it. I'm glad you amended your plan.

    It was extreme, IMO. Too extreme in the abstract? Dunno, not where I'm coming from. Am I hand-wringing in the way Neanderthin describes? Maybe. If so, I don't care.

    Where I am coming from: You're already under tremendous stress, sounds like. An extreme eating routine would add another stressor. It seems like that particular stressor is optional.

    Maybe this next isn't true for you, but it's true for me (at 3 years older than you): I can still accomplish most things I want to do, but I'm not as resilient to stress as I was at 20-something, 30-something, etc. Cumulative stress - the total of all physical and psychological stresses in my personal picture - hits me harder than it did when younger, and it takes me more time and patience to recover. That makes me personally even less inclined to stack stressor upon stressor. YMMV.

    I had some gradual regain during maintenance, too, and needed to re-lose. What I chose to do was to run a very small calorie deficit for a very long time, to creep weight down. I was still at a healthy weight, still wearing the same clothes, just at a higher weight than I preferred. That tiny deficit was virtually painless.

    I don't enjoy unpleasant things, when I have a choice about them - weak character, maybe? I also didn't feel like the fairly small regain was a crisis. (It was somewhere around 10-15 pounds, 5-7 kg maybe.) I didn't feel like regaining was any kind of sin that needed expiation through suffering. I've never considered the calendar to be a weight loss tool, besides. For me, small deficit for a long time was a great solution. It took around a year to lose the weight.

    Am I saying you should do that? No, I'm not. You know you better than I know you. I'm just describing what I chose in somewhat similar circumstances, and saying why I chose it.

    The only thing I'd add is that for me - maybe not you - an extreme intervention would not appeal to me because it would do zero to repattern my routine habits in the positive direction that I need to stay at a healthy weight long term. For me, it might even set me up for deprivation-triggered over-eating. (Weak character again, probably. ;) )

    You asked for our honest thoughts. Those are mine.

    Whatever you decide, best wishes for peace and progress toward your goals, in your current challenging situation!

  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 161 Member
    Thank you (all) so much for assisting me in clarifying my process and options. I do not want to see this as a crisis; by any criteria but I do not want to circle back to what worked over the year. Having these discussion with my friends on this platform helps immensely. I am a still a novice at getting this right and I don't want to gaslight or distract from the reality that my food choices are the problem. The triggers, patterns, habits, (addictions???) require awareness and decisions. I know I fell down the greasy rabbit hole in order to bathe in the crap food that seems to be the crocodile that waits in the shallows deviously patient as I get closer and closer to his unforgiving jaws. I try and imagine what this yucky food looks like when it is digested and ends up as mush in my gut as my system is forced to "deal" with it; throwing out all of the legitimate and well intentioned food choices just puts my metabolic machinery into organised chaos

    I did have a bit of insight. I like my stomach to be full. Sometimes sparkling mineral water can achieve this. Diet soft drinks as well if I am honest. Water with ice is pretty good.

    Well,.It's day 3. I am now 88kg...not 90 kg and I ate a fulfilling meal of lambshanks a small scoop of buttered mashed potatoes and a whole heap of green beans. Felt great this morning. Better than feeling starved. Maybe I will move the needle. 5/100?
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 161 Member
    And by the way, I wanted to thank Neanderthin for a bit of cold water. Please never hold back honest and relevant feedback. We are dealing with our lives and we all need to approach this area of our existence with critical thinking and awareness. Neanderthin and you others are clearly experts in the weight management field and come across thousands of stories and human experiences over time. You probably have a very effective way of classifying us and deciding which pieces of information, which articles and what direction makes the most sense. I have been extremely blessed and privileged to be the recipient of that high level of (free} support and wanted to acknowledge the benefits and importance of this resource. I know I have been grumpy, defensive and combative over the years but perhaps that is a function of wanting to resist the basic truths about self-care and health management. The science is there for us not just to discuss but to apply. If we eat more calories than our body requires. we gain weight. The reverse is the only remedy.....within reason and with mindfulness and within the context of our general health state so we don't cut off our nose to spite our chubby faces.
    Sorry for going on and on. Just felt like reflecting a bit because I was tough on Mr. Neanderthin and that was probably more about my frustration and defensiveness than anything else. Thanks for reading.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,264 Member
    edited October 8
    It's all good shel and no you weren't tough on me and I don't take opposing viewpoints or opinion as an attach or negative anyway, I'm just not that invested to take what people say in forums that seriously, everyone has the right to believe what they want. I will say there's not much nuance here and it's mostly about calories in vs calories out, eat less and move more is still alive and well which is the status quo of how to lose weight "properly" and we can google that and most people here use that 50 year old template with some sounding more convincing than others, yeah, and that's ok and who knows maybe sometime in a galaxy far far away it will have better luck, just kidding. :#

    Personally I don't fall into that category of believer and to me a calorie mean absolutely nothing, other than what it is which is the ability to raise the temperature of water, yeah really nothing to do with health at all, but like I said it's a story that takes the focus away of what truly is important which are the foods we consume and how that impacts our health and our satiety, blood sugar, inflammation etc. It's an old tactic, taking people focus away, and it's on another level in politics but like I said previously I believe a more holistic approach is better, but then again this is only my opinion based on my research over the years and most just get that "deer in the headlight" look and wondering what the hell I'm talking about, well I'm use to that, so don't worry I don't take what is said here seriously most of the time.

    The future of individual health care will be with the aid of AI intelligence and downloadable apps and people will need to up to speed to take full advantage and all I can do is hope that that makes somewhat of a positive change and we can get the nation back to a more healthy version of itself, I'm an optimist at heart.
  • shel80kg
    shel80kg Posts: 161 Member
    Interesting you should mention AI. I consulted AI and could only squeeze a plan out of CHATGPT if I disguised my request as a "hypothetical case" and even then, must have noticed a zillion qualifiers in terms of how unhealthy and unrealistic the goal was (i.e. to lose 5 to 8 kg in 3 weeks). I did get the numbers I was looking for (gosh I sound like Trump now don't I?). Seemed pretty daunting when I saw the math.

    I liked your reference to our evolutionary realities and I am pretty sure I am not the first huminoid that is playing with the concept of extreme fasting and exercise. Having said that, I think our ancestors might have been more equipped for feast and famine then this chubby man who has too many convenient food sources around him but I am going to try and channel their discipline and focus and see what I got.

    I think it was dumb of me to "bet" on myself which somehow changes (cheapens) the experience and turns me into a gambler rather than a person who just needs to be mindful and careful with food. Nevertheless, I am going to achieve the goal by October 30th 2024 and then go with a far more balanced regime.

    I'll keep you folks updated and thanks for your candid comments, advice and support.

    Shel

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