Deep Ketosis
Replies
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Yeah, the Randle Cycle is interesting especially when competing for entry into the mitochondria, it's an obscure bio chemical process that isn't widely know.
As far as MCT's are concerned which I take on my workout days don't compete with other dietary fatty acids and are absorbed by the gut and then directly transported to the liver via the portal vein which the liver converts to ketones and is then used as immediate energy. Any other consumed dietary fats stay in the gut much longer for digestion and then absorption takes place and like I said MCT's are absorbed before those other fats, and doesn't effect the absorption of any LCT's. Personally I don't see much difference in the gym but every little bit helps regardless, I'll continue using them.0 -
Still feeling great and leaning out good, but man did I have a craving for Dark Chocolate last 🤣😈
Just had to say not tonight0 -
If you do nothing but deep ketosis, YOU WILL lose muscle at a faster rate.
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If you do nothing but deep ketosis, YOU WILL lose muscle at a faster rate.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 40 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Maybe explain the science behind that, I'm sure people doing or thinking of doing the lion diet might find it interesting and not quite sure what "deep ketosis" even means, it's not a scientific term and I'm guessing @PiPDream01 picked it thinking it might describe the lion diet when comparing to say, something like keto or other carnivore variants for example as a descriptor.0 -
Deep Ketosis comes from Robert Sikes a natural bodybuilder who is also keto. Certificates, we all have those, I'm 48 and this is my 5 time doing keto to drop body fat and so far the best. Muscles are still full and strong. Just food for thought Vince Gironda did this, Sergio Nubreit I think his name was, ate this way. Anthony Chaffer has a great body and so does Shawn Baker. So completely possible and makes way better sense if you look at the mitochondria. There are newer and better studies coming out on fat adapted athletes.0
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Athletes perform better on zero carbs! Professor Tim Noakes. Great YouTube video great research
The body will make glucose if it needs it0 -
Disagree. There are many studies showing the difference in performance of elite athletes with or without carb loading before events. There aren't but a couple showing lower performance for keto only athletes.PiPDream01 wrote: »Athletes perform better on zero carbs! Professor Tim Noakes. Great YouTube video great research
The body will make glucose if it needs it
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://nihrecord.nih.gov/sites/recordNIH/files/pdf/2019/NIH-Record-2019-12-13.pdf
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Disagree. There are many studies showing the difference in performance of elite athletes with or without carb loading before events. There aren't but a couple showing lower performance for keto only athletes.PiPDream01 wrote: »Athletes perform better on zero carbs! Professor Tim Noakes. Great YouTube video great research
The body will make glucose if it needs it
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://nihrecord.nih.gov/sites/recordNIH/files/pdf/2019/NIH-Record-2019-12-13.pdf
Being competitive in bodybuilding and coaching a few competitors, you definitely see the difference in lower carb diets for prep and show, but for performance.........low carb forces them to suffer in workouts.
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Been in fitness for 40 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Depends on the athletic performance that is asked.
If it's high intensity aerobic performance that's asked for, then no, a keto diet isn't optimal. Fat delivers more energy as a substrate on a per gram basis but there's a need for more oxygen to produce the same amount of energy and like I said, when the performance is of high intensity then the oxygen is the limiting factor.
On the other hand when high intensity isn't asked and it's rather steady state then a keto diet can be utilized quite effectively. Zack Bitter won the championship for the 100 mile ultra marathon and set a world record as well who trained and competed using a ketogenic diet. Both Kobe Bryant and LeBron James used the ketogenic diet for their basic diet philosophy just not all the time, carbs are tasty. The Maasai are known for running down prey for days and they basically are in a ketogenic state. There's nuance that generally doesn't get discussed very much, nothing is ever cut and dry, especially something that isn't understood very well like nutrition.
Oh, look I found a study that agrees with me, so I must be right, yeah that's not science that's confirmation bias and dogma. Science is when a scientist looks = with vigor and determination to seek out all the literature that totally disagrees with their hypothesis and it's the reason they publish their findings so it can be peer reviewed and scrutinized, even then, most of that is corrupted by many factors and the reason thousands of published studies get taken down and removed from different scientific journals.....it's a mine field, basically.
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Zack Bitter has openly stated that he consumes 30-40 grams of carbs per hour during endurance racing. Though he does use low carb at times during training, he also admits to it lowering his performance until he added back in more carbs. His primary focus has been the ability to burn fat better to aid his fueling while racing, and limiting the amount he needs to eat when racing.0
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robertw486 wrote: »Zack Bitter has openly stated that he consumes 30-40 grams of carbs per hour during endurance racing. Though he does use low carb at times during training, he also admits to it lowering his performance until he added back in more carbs. His primary focus has been the ability to burn fat better to aid his fueling while racing, and limiting the amount he needs to eat when racing.
That's true, especially when in a particular stint when he's upping his intensity. Keto is his foundation for his energy source but like most athletes you do what's necessary to win. Personally when I play hockey and I'm keto, I will have some carbs before hand and that's called a "targeted ketogenic diet" but I can run or bike for hours at 71 and the bonus is the almost lack of lactic acid burn in my leg muscles and in a steady state there is no wall, or virtually no wall it's more about exhaustion but sometimes carbs can be beneficial, especially when they're getting immediately burned and back into a ketogenic state pretty quickly.0 -
neanderthin wrote: »If you do nothing but deep ketosis, YOU WILL lose muscle at a faster rate.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 40 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Maybe explain the science behind that, I'm sure people doing or thinking of doing the lion diet might find it interesting and not quite sure what "deep ketosis" even means, it's not a scientific term and I'm guessing @PiPDream01 picked it thinking it might describe the lion diet when comparing to say, something like keto or other carnivore variants for example as a descriptor.
What kind of science would convince you that keto hurts muscle gain?1 -
sollyn23l2 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »If you do nothing but deep ketosis, YOU WILL lose muscle at a faster rate.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 40 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Maybe explain the science behind that, I'm sure people doing or thinking of doing the lion diet might find it interesting and not quite sure what "deep ketosis" even means, it's not a scientific term and I'm guessing @PiPDream01 picked it thinking it might describe the lion diet when comparing to say, something like keto or other carnivore variants for example as a descriptor.
What kind of science would convince you that keto hurts muscle gain?
Any, really how would it hurt muscle gain? Muscle gain is because of muscle stimulation from mechanical tension recruiting muscle fibers. There are studies that show, science studies that show the Pump actually impedes muscle hypertrophy. We have been around 2000,000 to 300,000 years and for all that we ate are animals. Also myself, I have done it and I am doing it. Looks at any study in the last 30 years and look who funded it and it supports there business products, You can studies that support drinking alcohol which is a drug, a poison. Show me a independent study like Tim Noakes has shown that shows keto interferes with muscle growth? Vince Gironda is a great example of keto and muscle building, he was the Father of Bodybuilding. In the time there wasn't rampant PEDs being used.1 -
PiPDream01 wrote: »sollyn23l2 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »If you do nothing but deep ketosis, YOU WILL lose muscle at a faster rate.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 40 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Maybe explain the science behind that, I'm sure people doing or thinking of doing the lion diet might find it interesting and not quite sure what "deep ketosis" even means, it's not a scientific term and I'm guessing @PiPDream01 picked it thinking it might describe the lion diet when comparing to say, something like keto or other carnivore variants for example as a descriptor.
What kind of science would convince you that keto hurts muscle gain?
Any, really how would it hurt muscle gain? Muscle gain is because of muscle stimulation from mechanical tension recruiting muscle fibers. There are studies that show, science studies that show the Pump actually impedes muscle hypertrophy. We have been around 2000,000 to 300,000 years and for all that we ate are animals. Also myself, I have done it and I am doing it. Looks at any study in the last 30 years and look who funded it and it supports there business products, You can studies that support drinking alcohol which is a drug, a poison. Show me a independent study like Tim Noakes has shown that shows keto interferes with muscle growth? Vince Gironda is a great example of keto and muscle building, he was the Father of Bodybuilding. In the time there wasn't rampant PEDs being used.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7911670/
Keep in mind, I don't think there's anything wrong with a ketogenic diet. It can be beneficial for metabolic health, it just may not be ideal if hypertrophy is the goal. Carbohydrates and insulin are an important part of protein synthesis, it's what helps get the protein into your cells. Without it, that may be hindered. But, every individual needs to find what works for them.0 -
sollyn23l2 wrote: »PiPDream01 wrote: »sollyn23l2 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »If you do nothing but deep ketosis, YOU WILL lose muscle at a faster rate.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 40 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Maybe explain the science behind that, I'm sure people doing or thinking of doing the lion diet might find it interesting and not quite sure what "deep ketosis" even means, it's not a scientific term and I'm guessing @PiPDream01 picked it thinking it might describe the lion diet when comparing to say, something like keto or other carnivore variants for example as a descriptor.
What kind of science would convince you that keto hurts muscle gain?
Any, really how would it hurt muscle gain? Muscle gain is because of muscle stimulation from mechanical tension recruiting muscle fibers. There are studies that show, science studies that show the Pump actually impedes muscle hypertrophy. We have been around 2000,000 to 300,000 years and for all that we ate are animals. Also myself, I have done it and I am doing it. Looks at any study in the last 30 years and look who funded it and it supports there business products, You can studies that support drinking alcohol which is a drug, a poison. Show me a independent study like Tim Noakes has shown that shows keto interferes with muscle growth? Vince Gironda is a great example of keto and muscle building, he was the Father of Bodybuilding. In the time there wasn't rampant PEDs being used.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7911670/
Keep in mind, I don't think there's anything wrong with a ketogenic diet. It can be beneficial for metabolic health, it just may not be ideal if hypertrophy is the goal. Carbohydrates and insulin are an important part of protein synthesis, it's what helps get the protein into your cells. Without it, that may be hindered. But, every individual needs to find what works for them.
Your body releases insulin when you ingest anything the amount is based on the food being brought in, because more glucose coming in more insulin, why because glucose is damaging in the blood the body wants it out of the blood as soon as possible.0 -
PiPDream01 wrote: »sollyn23l2 wrote: »PiPDream01 wrote: »sollyn23l2 wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »If you do nothing but deep ketosis, YOU WILL lose muscle at a faster rate.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 40 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Maybe explain the science behind that, I'm sure people doing or thinking of doing the lion diet might find it interesting and not quite sure what "deep ketosis" even means, it's not a scientific term and I'm guessing @PiPDream01 picked it thinking it might describe the lion diet when comparing to say, something like keto or other carnivore variants for example as a descriptor.
What kind of science would convince you that keto hurts muscle gain?
Any, really how would it hurt muscle gain? Muscle gain is because of muscle stimulation from mechanical tension recruiting muscle fibers. There are studies that show, science studies that show the Pump actually impedes muscle hypertrophy. We have been around 2000,000 to 300,000 years and for all that we ate are animals. Also myself, I have done it and I am doing it. Looks at any study in the last 30 years and look who funded it and it supports there business products, You can studies that support drinking alcohol which is a drug, a poison. Show me a independent study like Tim Noakes has shown that shows keto interferes with muscle growth? Vince Gironda is a great example of keto and muscle building, he was the Father of Bodybuilding. In the time there wasn't rampant PEDs being used.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7911670/
Keep in mind, I don't think there's anything wrong with a ketogenic diet. It can be beneficial for metabolic health, it just may not be ideal if hypertrophy is the goal. Carbohydrates and insulin are an important part of protein synthesis, it's what helps get the protein into your cells. Without it, that may be hindered. But, every individual needs to find what works for them.
Your body releases insulin when you ingest anything the amount is based on the food being brought in, because more glucose coming in more insulin, why because glucose is damaging in the blood the body wants it out of the blood as soon as possible.
I'm not trying to argue. You're going to believe what you want to believe, and that's ok. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with a ketogenic diet when done right, and everyone has to find what works for them.0 -
Good Monday Morning everybody, you can do anything for a week so let's be awesome. Time is man-made days are also in the universe today could be Wednesday but It's Monday the first day of our week, ever 7 days we get a fresh start on a fresh week. Find yourself!
P.S. I am enjoying this WOE, roar2 -
He who pays the Pipper calls the tune!!! Looking at study's online I notice lots of them are just cherry picket snippets of other studies to support whoever is funding it or their products. Now go back to the 1960's and read the book Strong Medicine by Dr Blake F. Donaldson and read his history of care, where he started and who he studied under, pretty interesting stuff. The same can be said about Vince Gironda's 36 eggs a day diet and where that came from, I believe a burn unit in NY.0
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