Gaining Muscle is NOT that easy.

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Replies

  • TheBraveryLover
    TheBraveryLover Posts: 1,217 Member
    I think a lot of the misconceptions in gaining is moreso from ignorance than it is just women being in denial. I know that's not what you're saying OP (and I'm very glad you made a thread about this because it needed to have been made) but a couple of comments in here make it seem like women are just making these claims because they want to be in the dark. Hopefully this thread has educated those who really did not know muscle gain is difficult. :flowerforyou:
  • SergeantSunshine_reused
    SergeantSunshine_reused Posts: 5,382 Member
    I think a lot of the misconceptions in gaining is moreso from ignorance than it is just women being in denial. I know that's not what you're saying OP (and I'm very glad you made a thread about this because it needed to have been made) but a couple of comments in here make it seem like women are just making these claims because they want to be in the dark. Hopefully this thread has educated those who really did not know muscle gain is difficult. :flowerforyou:

    Oh yea i definitely agree here. A lot of women do not know how much it takes! Hopefully a few of them read this :]
  • Drunkadelic
    Drunkadelic Posts: 948 Member
    PREACH girl!!! :)
  • istalkzombies
    istalkzombies Posts: 344 Member
    haha awesome
  • psych101
    psych101 Posts: 1,842 Member
    THANK YOU!

    Along the same lines, it's just as annoying when women say "Oh I don't want to lift weights because I'll get bulky". You don't just pick up a few weights or a barbell and "suddenly" get bulky, especially as a woman. I've been trying to put on muscle for months and working my a** off to do it. It doesn't just happen.

    YES! If you pick up a dumbbell you will not turn into the incredible hulk.

    ^^ this.....hahahhaa so much this^^
  • katrina1025
    katrina1025 Posts: 74 Member
    I think some of the posts are referring to something different than you are. If you have a led a very sedentary life to the point that many of your muscles have atrophed, you can build those muscles up to where they should be very quickly. I think that is often the initial "gain" posters refer to.

    You seem to be talking about building new muscle on a fit person, which is very different, and much harder to do.

    Agreed, good rant. and I'll add to it...

    Rant continued...
    In response to the above poster: Even in "untrained individuals", people are generally not working hard enough nor long enough to see significant strength gains. In order to see appreciable strength gains you have to be working a an intensity at 60% of your 1 rep max. That means for you to improve strength in a say a "leg press" an average 35 year old male who weighs 200# would need to be lifting 304#. That is a lot of weight. Also to see significant strength gains and in turn muscle hypertrophy you need to participate in a high intensity program for a minimum of 12 weeks.

    So if you are lifting that kind of weight and doing it faithfully for 12 weeks than that may be a "muscle weight gain". But chances are its a normal weight fluctuation.

    End rant continuation
  • SergeantSunshine_reused
    SergeantSunshine_reused Posts: 5,382 Member
    I think some of the posts are referring to something different than you are. If you have a led a very sedentary life to the point that many of your muscles have atrophed, you can build those muscles up to where they should be very quickly. I think that is often the initial "gain" posters refer to.

    You seem to be talking about building new muscle on a fit person, which is very different, and much harder to do.

    Agreed, good rant. and I'll add to it...

    Rant continued...
    In response to the above poster: Even in "untrained individuals", people are generally not working hard enough nor long enough to see significant strength gains. In order to see appreciable strength gains you have to be working a an intensity at 60% of your 1 rep max. That means for you to improve strength in a say a "leg press" an average 35 year old male who weighs 200# would need to be lifting 304#. That is a lot of weight. Also to see significant strength gains and in turn muscle hypertrophy you need to participate in a high intensity program for a minimum of 12 weeks.

    So if you are lifting that kind of weight and doing it faithfully for 12 weeks than that may be a "muscle weight gain". But chances are its a normal weight fluctuation.

    End rant continuation

    love the continuation! As the poster ilovedeadlifts said:
    With proper diet and heavy lifting, in your first year of training (the time when you can make the easiest muscle gains), 12 pounds of muscle is pretty much the limit. And that's with perfect conditions.

    12 lbs in a year. That is a pretty small amount compared to the posters thinking they are gaining 5 lbs of muscle a month by walking/cleaning
  • liftingbro
    liftingbro Posts: 2,029 Member
    Yeah, I get a kick out of all the 30DS threads, "wow....i'm gaining a lot of muscle".

    First off, if I understand it right, it's mostly cardio and body weight stuff. Some tiny weights are used but that's it.

    If a woman really kicks *kitten* in the gym and is in a surplus they'll be lucky to put on couple of pounds in a month. That's pumping heavy metal, not just body weight and girly weights.
  • AI1108
    AI1108 Posts: 488 Member
    THANK YOU! finally a post worth the space.

    A lot of people don't realize that it takes a LOT more than lifting light weights 2x a week to really gain muscle on top of which 90% (being conservative) of the MFP community is on a deficit, not a surplus. If anything, they may be conditioning the muscles they do have, but sure are not breaking them down and building them up several times a week. Professional body builders train around the clock, taking in cycles for proper rest & nutrition for muscle repair in order to even see a smidgen of change in their masterpieces. The typical exerciser is not going to wake up one morning with a 12-pack without going through what most people would consider an ungodly training regimen.
  • Elizabeth_C34
    Elizabeth_C34 Posts: 6,376 Member
    Maybe someone can help me understand my situation (I mean this in no condescending terms so please do not read it this way).

    In early October of 2010, I was at 225 lbs and 47% body fat (equates to 120 lbs lean body mass). This is considered obese class 2 (morbid obesity). I lost 15 lbs in about a month from diet and light cardio alone and got down to 210, still well into obese category for me. I kept this off until December of 2010. I joined MFP at this point. I started lifting at this point with help from a trainer and maintained a caloric deficit. By the end of April, my body fat was 33% and I was down to 190 (equates to 127 lbs lean body mass). As of last week, I am at 188 lbs and 28% body fat (135 lbs lean body mass). This is a 14 lb increase in lean body mass in 10 months. In March/April, I had a family crisis and was eating a lot more than I normally did, but I kept up with the weight training. Otherwise, I've been at a consistent caloric deficit.

    I don't entirely understand how this is working. My trainer seems to think that because my body fat percentage was so high and I was so heavy to begin with that this has something to do with the initial muscle gain. Since I've maintained my weight training, it's not gone away and continued to build. He told me when I started to not expect to gain any muscle but rather to become more defined instead. While I can see definition in my arms, thighs, and calves, I still have a lot of fat on my midsection and back and haven't seen much definition here at all.

    I'd really like to understand this more than I do. I just know what my experience has been.

    Any ideas?

    EDIT: I refer to lean body mass as simply my non-fat body mass. I don't have an accurate measure of my actual muscle mass.
  • katrina1025
    katrina1025 Posts: 74 Member
    How are you calculating and/or measuring your body fat and lean mass ratios?
  • Elizabeth_C34
    Elizabeth_C34 Posts: 6,376 Member
    How are you calculating and/or measuring your body fat and lean mass ratios?

    My trainer has been doing it on a weekly basis since I started with calipers.
  • liftingbro
    liftingbro Posts: 2,029 Member
    Maybe someone can help me understand my situation (I mean this in no condescending terms so please do not read it this way).

    In early October of 2010, I was at 225 lbs and 47% body fat (equates to 120 lbs lean body mass). This is considered obese class 2 (morbid obesity). I lost 15 lbs in about a month from diet and light cardio alone and got down to 210, still well into obese category for me. I kept this off until December of 2010. I joined MFP at this point. I started lifting at this point with help from a trainer and maintained a caloric deficit. By the end of April, my body fat was 33% and I was down to 190 (equates to 127 lbs lean body mass). As of last week, I am at 188 lbs and 28% body fat (135 lbs lean body mass). This is a 14 lb increase in lean body mass in 10 months. In March/April, I had a family crisis and was eating a lot more than I normally did, but I kept up with the weight training. Otherwise, I've been at a consistent caloric deficit.

    I don't entirely understand how this is working. My trainer seems to think that because my body fat percentage was so high and I was so heavy to begin with that this has something to do with the initial muscle gain. Since I've maintained my weight training, it's not gone away and continued to build. He told me when I started to not expect to gain any muscle but rather to become more defined instead. While I can see definition in my arms, thighs, and calves, I still have a lot of fat on my midsection and back and haven't seen much definition here at all.

    I'd really like to understand this more than I do. I just know what my experience has been.

    Any ideas?

    That's what we call newbie gains and probably some margin of error with measuring your body fat.
  • liftingbro
    liftingbro Posts: 2,029 Member
    How are you calculating and/or measuring your body fat and lean mass ratios?

    My trainer has been doing it on a weekly basis since I started with calipers.
    Calipers are notoriously inaccurate unless done perfectly each time. Calipers can be off by 2-10% from one measurement to the next.
  • Elizabeth_C34
    Elizabeth_C34 Posts: 6,376 Member
    How are you calculating and/or measuring your body fat and lean mass ratios?

    My trainer has been doing it on a weekly basis since I started with calipers.
    Calipers are notoriously inaccurate unless done perfectly each time. Calipers can be off by 2-10% from one measurement to the next.

    The measurements seem to be precise, although I have no way of knowing if they are accurate. I have a weekly log going back to December, and they don't seem to fluctuate much.
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
    <
    Agrees with the premise of this post, entirely.
  • katrina1025
    katrina1025 Posts: 74 Member
    I think that with your current edit you have your answer. You have an average measurement of your total body fat composition. But our bodies are not made up only of fat and lean muscle. I'm sure if you have been working hard for that many months you will have some strength gains. But the fat/lean mass ratio is not exclusive. Don't forget we have others things that make up our bodies. So the 14lb number maybe inaccurate. Also as previous poster alluded to there is always a degree of error when dealing with measurements.

    Either way your decrease in body fat is awesome! Keep up the hard work and be proud of your accomplishments!
  • Elizabeth_C34
    Elizabeth_C34 Posts: 6,376 Member
    I think that with your current edit you have your answer. You have an average measurement of your total body fat composition. But our bodies are not made up only of fat and lean muscle. I'm sure if you have been working hard for that many months you will have some strength gains. But the fat/lean mass ratio is not exclusive. Don't forget we have others things that make up our bodies. So the 14lb number maybe inaccurate. Also as previous poster alluded to there is always a degree of error when dealing with measurements.

    Either way your decrease in body fat is awesome! Keep up the hard work and be proud of your accomplishments!

    This makes sense. I guess I was a little shocked at how the numbers were moving.

    Thanks! I'm pretty happy to be just "overweight" now.
  • Rae6503
    Rae6503 Posts: 6,294 Member
    I just officially switched to muscle gain mode! Kind of scared of the fat gain that will come with it but excited at the same time.
  • SergeantSunshine_reused
    SergeantSunshine_reused Posts: 5,382 Member
    I just officially switched to muscle gain mode! Kind of scared of the fat gain that will come with it but excited at the same time.

    Im going to be doing this soon! Good luck :D
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,028 Member
    Maybe a mini rant.

    I think women on here through out "you are gaining muscle" WAY too often. Gaining muscle is not as easy as you think ladies. doing the 30 day shred for 7 days sure isnt going to show a huge amount of muscle gain :P

    From what I have read (numbers vary of course with different studies) a 12 week period of calorie surplus and a good lifting routine will show about a 4 lb muscle gain. If you are eating 1200 calories a day and not doing resistance training I highly doubt you are gaining muscle mass.

    Like I said i think this is said WAY too much. If someone says they didn't lose or they gained one week, I see so many comments of women saying "its all muscle" or "don't worry its just muscle" and blah blah blah xD

    /end rant
    Bravo! What others don't also know is that to gain about a pound of lean muscle you will add .3 pounds of fat in the process. Even if you diet and nutrition were spot on, this would more than likely be the case.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,028 Member
    Since this is for women, I might add that even 4lb/12 weeks might be generous.
    Very generous.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,028 Member
    burning fat is a piece of freakin cake compared to building new muscle :cry:
    Love the "Dirk" avatar. I used to play that game back in the day.
  • MikeDailyIntake
    MikeDailyIntake Posts: 133
    Agreed Calories are a HUGE point of gaining mass, if you eat under your caloric intake you might just be burning muscle instead of building it!
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,028 Member
    It takes a man a good solid month of weight lifting to gain 2 lbs of muscle. So yeah any of that "it's muscle" stuff is usually people that don't really understand how the body works.
    Not if you're on calorie deficit though. You HAVE to be in calorie surplus. And 2lbs is generous too.
  • Birder150
    Birder150 Posts: 677 Member
    Arnold S. in his BEST YEAR put on 25 pounds of muscle. And he had "help".
  • Rae6503
    Rae6503 Posts: 6,294 Member
    So in 6 months of heavy lifting, eating at a surplus, I as a woman should expect about 5-6 pounds of muscle and 1.5-2 pounds of fat?
  • MikeDailyIntake
    MikeDailyIntake Posts: 133
    The only way you're going to gain over 25 pounds of muscle in a year is if youre juicing, or you have freakishly strong genitics.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,028 Member
    Maybe someone can help me understand my situation (I mean this in no condescending terms so please do not read it this way).

    In early October of 2010, I was at 225 lbs and 47% body fat (equates to 120 lbs lean body mass). This is considered obese class 2 (morbid obesity). I lost 15 lbs in about a month from diet and light cardio alone and got down to 210, still well into obese category for me. I kept this off until December of 2010. I joined MFP at this point. I started lifting at this point with help from a trainer and maintained a caloric deficit. By the end of April, my body fat was 33% and I was down to 190 (equates to 127 lbs lean body mass). As of last week, I am at 188 lbs and 28% body fat (135 lbs lean body mass). This is a 14 lb increase in lean body mass in 10 months. In March/April, I had a family crisis and was eating a lot more than I normally did, but I kept up with the weight training. Otherwise, I've been at a consistent caloric deficit.

    I don't entirely understand how this is working. My trainer seems to think that because my body fat percentage was so high and I was so heavy to begin with that this has something to do with the initial muscle gain. Since I've maintained my weight training, it's not gone away and continued to build. He told me when I started to not expect to gain any muscle but rather to become more defined instead. While I can see definition in my arms, thighs, and calves, I still have a lot of fat on my midsection and back and haven't seen much definition here at all.

    I'd really like to understand this more than I do. I just know what my experience has been.

    Any ideas?

    EDIT: I refer to lean body mass as simply my non-fat body mass. I don't have an accurate measure of my actual muscle mass.
    While it is possible for an obese person to gain muscle even while on calorie deficit, I would doubt that it was that high. Did you do the same exact method of body fat measurement each time? If not, then the readings would be off.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,028 Member
    The measurements seem to be precise, although I have no way of knowing if they are accurate. I have a weekly log going back to December, and they don't seem to fluctuate much.
    But even small fluctuations in water, heat and sodium can off set it because it would change the "thickness" of the pinch.
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