Teacher Criticisms...(rant)

I find it interesting that you attack me instead of actually addressing the arguments. If I've truly been to law school and I can't read.....blah blah blah. I'm just curious....have you been to law school?

What you are failing to understand is:
1. Not all jobs are considered to be property.

2. Jobs of government employees are considered to be property.

3. If your job is not considered to be property it is not protected by the constitution. (Except for civil rights violations)



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Okay, getting back to your original statement WHERE IN THE CONSTITUTION does it say that government employees' jobs are property? This is what I asked originally and this is what I called you on and this is what you seem to be coming back to.
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If you don't own property,like your house for example, the constitution doesn't apply to you because you are not a person thatbfalls under the coverage of the constitution.

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WHAT? The constitution only protects people who own property? Really, what law school did you go to?
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This is what I mean by not applying to everyone equally.

Maybe you didn't directly say that kids from poor environments shouldn't be educated, but you certainly seem to have a bias against kids who may struggle in school for one reason or another.

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That is pretty much complete crap. I was one of those kids. I know what it is like to pull yourself out of the mud. I love and admire poor kids who try and make it. Why do you think I keep pushing Jaime Escalante and John Taylor Gotto. Do you think they got their reputation by helping rich kids?

However, if a kid won't come to school, doesn't want to try, and has no interest in learning, trying to help him is a lost cause. Period. I doubt Escalante or Gotto would disagree with me.
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You want to write kids off. You think that the education system will be fixed by only educating the few rather than the masses.


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Boy, you really have a reading comprehension problem.
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What are we supposed to do with all those uneducated people?

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"We" should do nothing until they get their act together. I am nobody's nanny. Let them find their own way. The government cannot and should not try to solve everyones problems for them.
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I have enormous respect for teachers. They are amazingly patient and kind people who work incredibly hard and care about their kids . . . because they obviously aren't in the profession for the monetary rewards.

But I would like to extend this to mental health professionals as well. I work in a psychiatric residential treatment facility, where I work with male sex offenders. I am paid . . . pretty much nothing. I had to get a Masters degree to get this job and I haven't even paid it off halfway yet.

The most important people in society are ignored and underpaid. Shame of society.

I have enormous respect for teachers. They are amazingly patient and kind people who work incredibly hard and care about their kids . . . because they obviously aren't in the profession for the monetary rewards.

But I would like to extend this to mental health professionals as well. I work in a psychiatric residential treatment facility, where I work with male sex offenders. I am paid . . . pretty much nothing. I had to get a Masters degree to get this job and I haven't even paid it off halfway yet.

The most important people in society are ignored and underpaid. Shame of society.

This sounds like a mostly accurate generalization, but I have known teachers, nurses, and mental health professionals who enter their work with the wrong attitudes from the word go. And, then of course, there's burn-out.

This sounds like a mostly accurate generalization, but I have known teachers, nurses, and mental health professionals who enter their work with the wrong attitudes from the word go. And, then of course, there's burn-out.

I think there are people in all professions who go in to the profession for the wrong reasons, but teachers are beat up a lot and many times it is undeserved. If the parents only knew how hard we worked and how much we cared..........walk a mile in my shoes.......

i technically "get summers off," but usually only about 3 weeks, because the rest of my summer is spent on IEPs for new students, researching the newest discoveries in Autism, modifying curriculum from the general education students so my mainstreamed students can have access to materials, preparing my classroom for the students, and applying for grants so I can get new things for my classroom...

summers are technically off, but we do a ton of work to get ready for august!

bump! When I get a chance I definitely want to read this one and the other one. I'm currently in school for elementary education.

You wouldn't have to do any of that if they had ability grouping. Have you ever asked yourself why they don't. Well, there really is no good reason. It is a teacher union gimmick to creater more jobs, nothing more.
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alright veg - we get your point already. but are you ever going to suggest anything that teachers could do to make things better outside of completely uprooting the current system? (and don't bring up your outdated superheros again, please)

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You know, Chanstriste, I really do like you, but you just don't get it. THE SYSTEM DOESN'T WORK. If you don't uproot the system, you are PROMOTING DYSFUNCTIONALITY. The system is broken. It's like you're in a hospital but there is no medicine or electricity. You ain't gunna cure anyone that way.

and if you *insist* on bringing up the unions some more, how about some references or citations so you don't keep beating this same poor horse that it is already quite dead.

The citations and references are in the books by my outdated superheroes. If you want other sources, here are a few from my nearest libarary shelf:

Public Education, an Autopsy by Myron Lieberman
The Schools we Need and Why we Don't Have Them by E.D. Hirsch, Jr
Market Education The Unknown History by Andrew J. Coulson
Cloning of the American Mind Eradicating Morality through Education by B.K Eakman

I have plenty more when you have finished these.



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Don't even get me srarted! I taught high school forever and I can so relate to this thread.

i technically "get summers off," but usually only about 3 weeks, because the rest of my summer is spent on IEPs for new students, researching the newest discoveries in Autism, modifying curriculum from the general education students so my mainstreamed students can have access to materials, preparing my classroom for the students, and applying for grants so I can get new things for my classroom...

summers are technically off, but we do a ton of work to get ready for august!

You wouldn't have to do any of that if they had ability grouping. Have you ever asked yourself why they don't. Well, there really is no good reason. It is a teacher union gimmick to creater more jobs, nothing more.

Spoken like someone who has no clue what they are talking about. I'm sorry this whole "union is a gimmick " thing is getting old. Teachers have an extremely difficult job, it tiring and rewarding at the same time. They take the crap and abuse from parents day in and day out because they love what they do and they take care of your children!

As said above they do have time off during the summer but they spend so much time preparing lesson plans and planning for the new year that it's definitely not 2 months off of partying. Instead of criticizing teachers you should be supporting them!

First of all, they don't, and never have taken care of MY children, because we pulled our son our of public school after 5 weeks, and homeschooled him. My daughter has never been in grade school or high school. I do not want to go through my family history yet again, but suffice it to say that my sone is 19 and in his first year of law school, and my daughter, age 16, has earned her associates degree and is going to be a junior in college next fall.

And I don't buy that summers off are used to prepare for school. No more than my weekends are used to prepare for my next week of work. Yeah, all professionals take work home, but not all of them get the summers off.

Now one other point to add and this may vary from region to region but where I live teachers are not allowed to schedule any vacation days. They have the time off when the kids do. Meaning if a teacher wants to take 2 weeks off in November for example, not possible. They have sick days like most people but no actual vacation days per say.

Also are you advocating that kids go to school year round? 12 months a year no off time. Because if that were to happen you can bet there would be other parents who would start complaining that their kids are worked too hard.

Your darned if you do and darned if you don't. You can't please everyone all the time but that doesn't mean teachers don't work hard and deserve what they have. I'm sorry your kids had a rough time at school but it doesn't negate that teachers for the most part have difficult jobs and do the best they can with what they are given.

Maybe in my numerous family histories on this board, I did not make myself clear. My kids did NOT have a hard time, they simply were being dumbed down, and we could see it happening. My son was reading newspapers when he entered first grade. For 5 weeks he was told to learn the letters. When my wife offered to take the kids who could read out of class and hold special reading groups where they would be challenged, we were told we couldn't because "that would make the others feel bad." My wife, by the way has a degree in Psychology and an MLS Degree.

It was clear that school would not help our kids one bit, and would probably harm them. Homeschooling was the best thing we ever did.

This has been floating around FB and beyond...


"In what other profession...

August 27th, 2010 by David Reber


I’m going to step out of my usual third-person writing voice for a moment. As a parent I received a letter last week from the Kansas State Board of Education, informing me that my children’s school district had been placed on “improvement” status for failing to meet “adequate yearly progress” under the No Child Left Behind law.

I thought it ironic that our schools were judged inadequate by people who haven’t set foot in them, so I wrote a letter to my local newspaper. Predictably, my letter elicited a deluge of comments in the paper’s online forum. Many remarks came from armchair educators and anti-teacher, anti-public school evangelists quick to discredit anything I had to say under the rationale of “he’s a teacher.” What could a teacher possibly know about education?

Countless arguments used to denigrate public school teachers begin with the phrase “in what other profession….” and conclude with practically anything the anti-teacher pundits find offensive about public education. Due process and collective bargaining are favorite targets, as are the erroneous but tightly held beliefs that teachers are under-worked, over-paid (earning million-dollar pensions), and not accountable for anything.

In what other profession, indeed.

In what other profession are the licensed professionals considered the LEAST knowledgeable about the job? You seldom if ever hear “that guy couldn’t possibly know a thing about law enforcement – he’s a police officer”, or “she can’t be trusted talking about fire safety – she’s a firefighter.”

In what other profession is experience viewed as a liability rather than an asset? You won’t find a contractor advertising “choose me – I’ve never done this before”, and your doctor won’t recommend a surgeon on the basis of her “having very little experience with the procedure”.

In what other profession is the desire for competitive salary viewed as proof of callous indifference towards the job? You won’t hear many say “that lawyer charges a lot of money, she obviously doesn’t care about her clients”, or “that coach earns millions – clearly he doesn’t care about the team.”

But look around. You’ll find droves of armchair educators who summarily dismiss any statement about education when it comes from a teacher. Likewise, it’s easy to find politicians, pundits, and profiteers who refer to our veteran teachers as ineffective, overpriced “dead wood”. Only the rookies could possibly be any good, or worth the food-stamp-eligible starting salaries we pay them.

And if teachers dare ask for a raise, this is taken by many as clear evidence that teachers don’t give a porcupine’s posterior about kids. In fact, some say if teachers really cared about their students they would insist on earning LESS money.

If that entire attitude weren’t bad enough, what other profession is legally held to PERFECTION by 2014? Are police required to eliminate all crime? Are firefighters required to eliminate all fires? Are doctors required to cure all patients? Are lawyers required to win all cases? Are coaches required to win all games? Of course they aren’t.

For no other profession do so many outsiders refuse to accept the realities of an imperfect world. Crime happens. Fire happens. Illness happens. As for lawyers and coaches, where there’s a winner there must also be a loser. People accept all these realities, until they apply to public education.

If a poverty-stricken, drug-addled meth-cooker burns down his house, suffers third degree burns, and then goes to jail; we don’t blame the police, fire department, doctors, and defense attorneys for his predicament. But if that kid doesn’t graduate high school, it’s clearly the teacher’s fault.

And if someone – anyone - tries to tell you otherwise; don’t listen. He must be a teacher."

i technically "get summers off," but usually only about 3 weeks, because the rest of my summer is spent on IEPs for new students, researching the newest discoveries in Autism, modifying curriculum from the general education students so my mainstreamed students can have access to materials, preparing my classroom for the students, and applying for grants so I can get new things for my classroom...

summers are technically off, but we do a ton of work to get ready for august!

You wouldn't have to do any of that if they had ability grouping. Have you ever asked yourself why they don't. Well, there really is no good reason. It is a teacher union gimmick to creater more jobs, nothing more.

Spoken like someone who has no clue what they are talking about. I'm sorry this whole "union is a gimmick " thing is getting old. Teachers have an extremely difficult job, it tiring and rewarding at the same time. They take the crap and abuse from parents day in and day out because they love what they do and they take care of your children!

As said above they do have time off during the summer but they spend so much time preparing lesson plans and planning for the new year that it's definitely not 2 months off of partying. Instead of criticizing teachers you should be supporting them!

First of all, they don't, and never have taken care of MY children, because we pulled our son our of public school after 5 weeks, and homeschooled him. My daughter has never been in grade school or high school. I do not want to go through my family history yet again, but suffice it to say that my son is 19 and in his first year of law school, and my daughter, age 16, has earned her associates degree and is going to be a junior in college next fall.

And I don't buy that summers off are used to prepare for school. No more than my weekends are used to prepare for my next week of work. Yeah, all professionals take work home, but not all of them get the summers off.

i work with an insanely different population from most of the teachers on here. with moderate to severely handicapped students (non verbal/autistic/behavior intervention)... my district mainstreams EVERY student, and legally I HAVE to have them reaching IEP goals from general education classrooms... so for my 12 students I have to coordinate with the general ed benchmark binder, find how everything works with my CAPA binder, and manipulate the materials so my students can reach their IEP goals (which are legally binding (activists are frightening)) while mainstreamed for more than 50.9% of the day. Like i said, i take 3 weeks off- party, have fun, travel, do my thing, but after july 4th it gives me 6 weeks to plan for the rest of the year. ability grouping is a thing of the past... FAPE, free and public education, equal access to everything. I am in california, maybe it's different where you are?

I am a teacher and would gladly take the pay of a babysitter!

Let's say that I charge $3/hour/kid. I have 27 kids in my class:

$3 x 27 = $81/hour

I am SCHEDULED to work from 8:45 - 4:15 (though I am usually at school before 8 and leave around 5):

$81 x 7 (taking out my lunch - 30 min.) = $567/day

I work 36 weeks per year, and that does account for summer break and other days off:

$567 x 5 days/week = $2835 x 36 weeks/year = $102,060/year

Now, I also have a MA in education, but I won't charge extra for my extra knowledge of how to better serve your children.

I make less than $40,000/year. So, PLEASE let me charge babysitter rates! I would love that!

^^Haha..>THIS...I CHOSE this undervalued and underpaid field because I am passionate about education. Those teachers who educated the nuckleheads that speak out against teachers are embarrassed.

EDIT: Apparently I'm a thread killer. But I wanted to say factor in the fact that there are no "laws" for the level of education a "babysitter" has to have - that's downright scary!

My mother was shocked and angered when I was in high school when my chemistry teacher sent home a note "congradulating" me on an award I'd won. I was proud of the award and wanted to show the note to my grandparents, but my mom was so embarrassed that my teachers couldn't spell she refused to let me show my grandparents the note. She felt as I do now, seeing you write of the "nuckleheads" who criticize teachers. If a teacher doesn't bother to spell correctly, why should I believe they're qualified to teach?

BTW, it's "knucklehead" and "congratulations."

i technically "get summers off," but usually only about 3 weeks, because the rest of my summer is spent on IEPs for new students, researching the newest discoveries in Autism, modifying curriculum from the general education students so my mainstreamed students can have access to materials, preparing my classroom for the students, and applying for grants so I can get new things for my classroom...

summers are technically off, but we do a ton of work to get ready for august!

You wouldn't have to do any of that if they had ability grouping. Have you ever asked yourself why they don't. Well, there really is no good reason. It is a teacher union gimmick to creater more jobs, nothing more.

Spoken like someone who has no clue what they are talking about. I'm sorry this whole "union is a gimmick " thing is getting old. Teachers have an extremely difficult job, it tiring and rewarding at the same time. They take the crap and abuse from parents day in and day out because they love what they do and they take care of your children!

As said above they do have time off during the summer but they spend so much time preparing lesson plans and planning for the new year that it's definitely not 2 months off of partying. Instead of criticizing teachers you should be supporting them!

First of all, they don't, and never have taken care of MY children, because we pulled our son our of public school after 5 weeks, and homeschooled him. My daughter has never been in grade school or high school. I do not want to go through my family history yet again, but suffice it to say that my son is 19 and in his first year of law school, and my daughter, age 16, has earned her associates degree and is going to be a junior in college next fall.

And I don't buy that summers off are used to prepare for school. No more than my weekends are used to prepare for my next week of work. Yeah, all professionals take work home, but not all of them get the summers off.

i work with an insanely different population from most of the teachers on here. with moderate to severely handicapped students (non verbal/autistic/behavior intervention)... my district mainstreams EVERY student, and legally I HAVE to have them reaching IEP goals from general education classrooms... so for my 12 students I have to coordinate with the general ed benchmark binder, find how everything works with my CAPA binder, and manipulate the materials so my students can reach their IEP goals (which are legally binding (activists are frightening)) while mainstreamed for more than 50.9% of the day. Like i said, i take 3 weeks off- party, have fun, travel, do my thing, but after july 4th it gives me 6 weeks to plan for the rest of the year. ability grouping is a thing of the past... FAPE, free and public education, equal access to everything. I am in california, maybe it's different where you are?

Honestly, I don't know any of the acronyms you used, but they sound like a lot of bureaucratic bull crap. Why do they need to mainstream these children who sound like they need individual care rather than being in a classroom where "normal" kids will laugh at them and make fun of them? Do you as a teacher find that mainstreaming is worth anything? If so, why? If not, why not?

Bytheway, it does sound like you have enough work to do to keep your summers full.