My response to people that say humans HAVE to eat meat...

If you're not looking for a heated debate, you probably shouldn't have started this thread. People don't respond well to being preached at- especially when you are preaching nonsense.

You make assumptions that are simply incorrect or that have not been proven conclusively. The evidence that animal protein causes cancer is weak. And refined sugars do not cause high cholesterol. Nor do they cause diabetes, heart disease, prostate/breast cancer, etc...

Furthermore, your claim that we can prevent and reverse most illnesses with diet is absolute bull ****. The "tested and proven" part of your statement is a fantasy- yours.

Certainly, the typical American eats a rather unhealthy diet, and obesity is rampant in the US in many developed countries. And yes, some metabolic disorders can be reversed by diet. And no one will ever deny that veggies are good for you and that you should eat them. The vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, and so forth are wonderful for your health and can help prevent an array of illnesses, including cancer (note that I said 'prevent', not 'reverse'). But they are not a guarantee of health. You can certainly be obese while vegetarian... and you can develop cancer while vegetarian. And, sadly... cancer CANNOT be reversed by diet. I really suggest you don't try or you'll end up in the morgue. I can think of half a dozen other disease that also cannot be reversed by diet... but I'll stop there.

And it's foolish to think you cannot be healthy while consuming meat. Humanity has been omnivores for a very long time. And we're incredibly adaptable (go us!!). We can survive and be healthy on a variety of diets... including mostly meat if we have to or choose to. I'm generally anti-low-carb, but I recognize that it is a viable and healthy strategy for some.

I choose to eat meat because I enjoy it, because it provides a complete array of essential amino acids, and is a great source of many vitamin Bs. I do try to eat responsibly raised beef/chicken/pork when my budget allows, but I do not in anyway feel guilty about ending the life of an animal to provide me with food.

^^this

I have a b12 defciency (even as a meat eater).. I can't quite seeing that being "cured" by going vegetarian? Also, switching diets can indeed help with certain illnesses, the ketogenic diet is used to control epilepsy in children. (no, I'm not a low-carber myself. I however have a lot of epilepsy in the family) Different diets work for different things, I am sure being a vegetarian helps some people, but I am also sure it's not the ultimate cure.

I think it depends on your body. Some people find their bodies need meat, and others don't. I know a few people who say that their bodies were designed to go without meat, and I believe them, the same that I believe the people who say they need meat.

I never thought my body needed meat as much as it did until I was a vegetarian for 4 years. Whilst it's true I was rarely sick during those 4 years, I was tired and lethargic every day, even during the last few months when I was exercising 5 times a week. Now that I'm a meat eater again, I definitely feel a lot better and have much more energy. Also too, if iron supplements didn't exist I'd "have" to eat red meat, because I have thalassemia and you know, having low iron and hemoglobin levels is never fun.

If you're not looking for a heated debate, you probably shouldn't have started this thread. People don't respond well to being preached at- especially when you are preaching nonsense.

Nonsense or not, there's no reason to get heated when stating an opinion. We're adults for the most part, although not so civil when it comes about stating a point in most cases.

You make assumptions that are simply incorrect or that have not been proven conclusively. The evidence that animal protein causes cancer is weak. And refined sugars do not cause high cholesterol. Nor do they cause diabetes, heart disease, prostate/breast cancer, etc...

I agree with you about animal protein or red meats not causing cancer. Actually, I will add that a lot of countries from Central and South America are red meat eaters and the cancer levels are probably lower than in the US. What in my opinion can help increase the amount of cancer and diseases in this country is the huge and absurd amount of hormones, chemicals and antibiotics used in farms with this animals.

Furthermore, your claim that we can prevent and reverse most illnesses with diet is absolute bull ****. The "tested and proven" part of your statement is a fantasy- yours.

Just because you don't believe in something, doesn't me is absolute bull ****. For your information, in holistic medicine it is believed that the human body is capable to prevent / reverse most diseases with proper diet and other factors, including exercises. That Western Medicine doesn't want to admit it, that's a whole different story. Easter Medicine has been successful at achieving this for thousands of years. But like I said, it is a matter of whatever you believe.

Certainly, the typical American eats a rather unhealthy diet, and obesity is rampant in the US in many developed countries. And yes, some metabolic disorders can be reversed by diet. And no one will ever deny that veggies are good for you and that you should eat them. The vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, and so forth are wonderful for your health and can help prevent an array of illnesses, including cancer (note that I said 'prevent', not 'reverse'). But they are not a guarantee of health. You can certainly be obese while vegetarian... and you can develop cancer while vegetarian. And, sadly... cancer CANNOT be reversed by diet. I really suggest you don't try or you'll end up in the morgue. I can think of half a dozen other disease that also cannot be reversed by diet... but I'll stop there.

I once again agree with you in most of what you said here. Now, diet does have a major role in health, but it is not the main or only factor to have a healthy life. Stress is the main factor in health, and when stress levels go above normal the disease happens, in other words dis - ease caused by stress. About obese vegetarian, totally true, but way less % than meat eaters. And about what diseases can be reversed or not... just like you said, I'll stop there

And it's foolish to think you cannot be healthy while consuming meat. Humanity has been omnivores for a very long time. And we're incredibly adaptable (go us!!). We can survive and be healthy on a variety of diets... including mostly meat if we have to or choose to. I'm generally anti-low-carb, but I recognize that it is a viable and healthy strategy for some.

Agreed

I choose to eat meat because I enjoy it, because it provides a complete array of essential amino acids, and is a great source of many vitamin Bs. I do try to eat responsibly raised beef/chicken/pork when my budget allows, but I do not in anyway feel guilty about ending the life of an animal to provide me with food.

I always say that the vegetarians who tell me they don't eat meat because of the guilt about ending the life of an animal are full of *kitten* with all the respect. Living beings are living beings, and under the microscope they all have living cells, INCLUDING vegetables. Just because a tree doesn't have a heart doesn't mean it is not a living organism that will die when you cut it. What happens when you cut a flower and leave it on a table? It will die and dry. Same thing happens when you cut veggies and eat them. So that whole "guilt" is nothing but pure hypocrisy.

PS. Now shoot me :bigsmile:

bump!

True, this will be a never-ending debate. I've given up trying to push the anti-meat debate unless the audience wants to hear it. The only point I'll add to this thread is that since we turned vegan, myself, my wife, and my son, have never been sick. In two years, a sore throat or mild cold simply disappears by itself two days later.

Same goes for my two year-old son. The other kids in his daycare center are always sticky with runny noses, colds, coughs, you name it. Thankfully my son shakes it off after a day or two. He also has all the energy in the world and doctors confirmed his development is spot-on without any meat or dairy consumption.

Regardless of what anybody says, dropping the meat and dairy has been the best thing for my family's health, with noticeable changes from day 1. Even if the ethics behind animal cruelty do not concern you, I recommend the vegan lifestyle simply for the pure, clean, ongoing health benefits you enjoy every day.

And about B12 deficiency? An easy supplement keeps me on the sunny side.

Peace and health to you all!

I'm confused in the title you argue against people who say they have to eat meat then your post goes towards a do not eat meat argument.

Although it is possible to have a healthy diet without meat included within it but then eating meat will not result in being unhealthy. If you want to use the eastern cultures argument, although the diet has a higher vegetable content it still has meat in it so the casing point you made only goes against your point made within the post and does not support your topic title.

Eastern cultures in which diets are mostly plant based, have little to almost bar none death rates of cancer and disease compared to Western civilizations

Really? Almost no-one dies of disease in the East? WTVF?

Sorry! Not giving up meat. I have a pretty good relationship with it. It's also Biblical to eat meat. But that's another arguement

I probably don't have to eat meat... but I sure as heck want to :P

I am a vegetarian that happens to disagree with you. People are made to eat meat, they're omnivores.

Factory farming and CAFOs? THAT'S another story...




Why must vegetarians/ vegans be so preachy?

We shoud all be Fruitatarians, as the fruit of a plant is meant to be eaten! :P Wait.. but we are killing the cells in the fruit... that's mean. We should now sustain ourselves on sunlight alone. Let's be plants!!

ahahahha I'm ready when you are

I don't understand why some people think:
1 I'm a vegetarian
2. I never get sick
3 therefore being a vegetarian prevents me from getting sick

You might as well think:
1 I wear green socks
2 I haver had cancer
3 green socks prevent cancer

Anyways, go choice!

By the way, your statements discount so many variables about the Eastern diet and the way they see illness and medicine.
Compare that to the Western culture and you'll find a lot of answers that contradict the research you are backing up.

Oh and I'd also like to add I am a vegetarian and was a strict vegan for four years.

I am now switching to green socks. I will wear them EVERY day of my life. Even in the shower. :P

OP: Not sure who is saying you absolutely have to eat meat? I have honestly never read a post saying that you had to or else.
But if someone chooses to that is their own business. It is NOT what is killing us. Obesity is.

Just by telling someone to cut out meat doesnt work. I did that for 3 years and packed on about an extra 25 lbs on my small frame. Knowing DRIs and how to have a healthy balanced diet is what is needed, not to completely exclude something