My response to people that say humans HAVE to eat meat...

Also, Vegesaurus, you haven't addressed the issue of why we express genes for BCAAT, BCKAD, peptidases, etc.

Are you talking about degading amino acids in the liver? If so, I don't get your point. But then, you haven't made a point yet. You seem to thing you are worthy of admiration because you are a 3/4 Ph.D.. I would think that by now you wouild learn to communicate. Why don't you state the thesis you want us to believe and then give us cites to a study, preferably a controlled cohort study, that proves whatever you are claiming. Until you do that, I really cannot respond to you since I have no idea what it is you are saying.

That's just me, I'm sure others have found that their bodies can digest ruminant food. We are all different.

Didn't get fat eating meat, pasta, drinking milk, etc. For me, it was mostly chocolate cake. And similar items.

I've cut a lot of it out, but not all. I still eat red meat occasionally, chicken, fish, eggs, drink milk, etc. Lost 31 lbs as of today.

I'm aware of the food police, and to them, I say back off. Back off from trying to dictate who can drink soda, who can eat meat, basically unless you're my mother and I'm an infant (you're not, and I'm not not).

Also, Vegesaurus, you haven't addressed the issue of why we express genes for BCAAT, BCKAD, peptidases, etc.

Are you talking about degading amino acids in the liver? If so, I don't get your point. But then, you haven't made a point yet. You seem to thing you are worthy of admiration because you are a 3/4 Ph.D.. I would think that by now you wouild learn to communicate. Why don't you state the thesis you want us to believe and then give us cites to a study, preferably a controlled cohort study, that proves whatever you are claiming. Until you do that, I really cannot respond to you since I have no idea what it is you are saying.

You haven't got one yet. And I am still waiting for your point. WHAT IS YOUR POINT? And yes, I do go to journal articles when I have a question. Where do you go?

Oh, does it only happen in the liver now? Sounds like you just went and Googled them. And yes, getting a PhD is something to be proud of.

SYNOPSIS OF THE PRIMARY EVIDENCE (CONCLUSIONS)
Humans can be regarded as natural omnivores, so long as one uses the common definition of the term: a natural diet that includes significant amounts of both plant and animal foods. (Humans might not qualify as omnivores if one uses the definition of omnivore as advocated by D.J. Chivers and associates, and discussed in earlier sections herein.)

To use terms that are linked to gut morphology, humans are either faunivores [meat-eaters] or frugivores with specific (evolutionary) adaptations for the consumption of animal foods. This, of course, means that humans are not natural vegetarians. A short summary of some of the evidence supporting this follows (the material below was discussed in depth in earlier sections of this paper).

The fossil record. Approximately 2.5 million years of human omnivory/faunivory are apparent in the record, with genetic adaptation to that diet the inevitable and inescapable outcome of evolution. The supporting evidence here includes isotope analysis of fossils, providing further evidence of consumption of animal foods.

Comparative anatomy of the human gut. The best scientific evidence available to date on gut morphology--analyzed using two different statistical approaches--shows evidence of adaptations for which the best explanation is the practice of faunivory. (Faunivory as an explanation is also supported by optimal foraging theory in hunter-gatherer tribes.) Further, the human gut morphology is not what might be expected for a strict vegetarian/fruit diet.

Comparative physiology (metabolism)

Intestinal receptors for heme iron. The existence of intestinal receptors for the specific absorption of heme iron is strong evidence of adaptation to animal foods in the diet, as heme iron is found in nutritionally significant amounts only in animal foods (fauna).

B-12 an essential nutrient. Similarly, the requirement for vitamin B-12 in human nutrition, and the lack of reliable (year-round) plant sources suggests evolutionary adaptation to animal foods in the human diet.

Plant foods are poor sources of EFAs. In general, the EFAs in plant foods are in the "wrong" ratio (with the exception of a very few exotic, expensive oils), and the low synthesis rates of EPA, DHA, and other long-chain fatty acids from plant precursors point to plant foods as an "inferior" source of EFAs. This strongly suggests adaptation to foods that include preformed long-chain fatty acids, i.e., fauna.

Taurine synthesis rate. The low rate of taurine synthesis in humans, compared to that in herbivorous animals, suggests human adaptation to food sources of taurine (fauna) in the human diet.

Slow conversion of beta-carotene. The sluggish conversion rate of beta-carotene to vitamin A, especially when compared to the conversion rate in herbivorous animals, suggests adaptation to dietary sources of preformed vitamin A (i.e., a diet that includes fauna).

Plant foods available in evolution were poor zinc and iron sources. The plant foods available during evolution (fruits, vegetative plant parts, nuts, but no grains or legumes) generally provide low amounts of zinc and iron, two essential minerals. These minerals are provided by grains, but grains are products of agriculture (i.e., were not available during evolution), and contain many antinutrients that inhibit mineral absorption. This suggests that the nutritional requirements for iron and zinc were primarily met via animal foods during human evolution.

Bitter taste threshold as a trophic marker. An analysis of the human bitter taste threshold, when compared to the threshold of other mammals, suggests that our sensitivity to the bitter taste is comparable to that of carnivores/omnivores.

There is no such thing as a veg*n gatherer tribe. And there are no records to indicate that any such tribes ever existed; also no evidence of any vegan societies either.

The actual diets of all the great apes includes some fauna--animal foods. Even the great apes that are closest to being completely vegetarian, gorillas, deliberately consume insects when available. Chimps and bonobos, our closest relatives, hunt and kill vertebrates and eat occasional meat.

Many of the ancillary claims made in comparative "proofs" of veg*n diets are logical fallacies:

The misinterpretation of animal studies using domesticated or feedlot meats to condemn all omnivore diets.

The misinterpretation of clinical studies showing negative results for the SAD/SWD as indicating negative results for all omnivore diets.

The misinterpretation of the results of the China Project to claim it "proves" vegan diets are best and all omnivore diets are bad.

John McArdle, Ph.D., an anatomist and primatologist, a vegetarian, and scientific advisor to the American Anti-Vivisection Society, summarizes the situation clearly [McArdle 1996, p. 174]:

Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet. For that reason, the best arguments in support of a meat-free diet remain ecological, ethical, and health concern

I have been vegetarian for several years because of the inhumane way they treat animals before they slaughter them. I am also opposed to animal testing and look for products not tested on animals. I do this because of my love for animals. I am 53 years old and feel better than I have in years. Do I miss fish, pork, beef, chicken, lamb, etc.? Nope. I find plenty of other things to eat.

The obesity rate is higher than what you posted: 33. 7% of adults and 17.3% of children are considered obese in the United States. That's 50 percent of the population!

You are correct that many health problems can be resolved by loosing weight. Meat and dairy are two of the fattiest foods around. Dairy, tooted as being needed for its calcium content, is the worst of the two. The calcium in dairy is miniscule compared to that in plants. Additionally, it is very difficult to absorb calcium from dairy products. On top of that, the cassein in dairy products is high and is linked to cancer as well as many other health issues. A slice of cheese has quadruple the cassein than what milk has, so eating cheese is really bad for one's health.

As for meat, I have watched enough videos about meat glue and other products used to make inferior meat into what appears to be a superior product that I don't think a piece of beef has passed my mouth since.<snip>

Now for a story with a happy ending:

I am an RN. I was working on a med-surg unit and had a patient that was admitted with high blood pressure. During his stay, he found out that he had obstructive sleep apnea, fatty liver disease, gastric reflux (which can lead to esophageal cancer), and diabetes. He was young, around 28 years of age, and had three small children. He was told by the ER physician to write his will while in the hospital because his blood pressure was spiking over 200 systolic and 100 diastolic.

I sat with him one evening because he was despondent. The social worker had come and given him information about wills and advanced directives. He had pretty much given up. He said to me that he was sad to leave his three children fatherless and really wished that he could do things over again. I said to him that the problem was all here and patted my stomach. "What do you mean?" he asked. "The problem is all here." I patted my stomach again. He still looked confused and so I repeated my statement, but patted his stomach instead.

"You mean that if I lose all this weight I will possibly live?" he asked. I told him that many health issues are caused by the extra weight that we carry and the lack of exercise. Diabetes and heart issues have been very well linked to obesity. With all the fat in the abdomen, pressure is pushed up on the diaphragm, leading to gastric reflux and obstructive sleep apnea. He was discharged the next morning so I didn't get to say goodbye. I could only hope that he did well.

About one year later, this man came on the floor with his wife and three children in tow. His wife was noticeably pregnant. He had a dozen roses in his hand. I didn't recognize him and walked on by. He called out my name and I immediately recognized the voice. I turned and was totally blown away by how he looked. He was buffed and you could tell that he was a healthy 29 or 30 year old man. They all thanked me, even the children, for helping their dad see that he needed to lose weight in order to live. All his health issues had resolved.

As a nurse, I have seen many people with so many problems from being obese. It is so sad when you have a 16 year old patient who is over 500 pounds and can barely move from bed because of the weight. I have seen many of these same patients order in chicken wings, pizza loaded with meat, etc. or have family members bring in double cheeseburgers, KFC, or other food.

Most people on this site have weight issues. You need to ask yourself what role eating meat played in making you overweight/obese. Many Americans don't have a clue about what one serving of meat looks like which leads to the overconsumption of meat.

If you do not look at the way you used to eat and just continue to eat the same way with only changing the amount of food ingested, you have a good chance of gaining back the weight once you are done dieting. If you dramatically change the way that you live, your whole lifestyle, including cutting out certain things in your diet, such as red meat, sugar, and fats, you have a better chance of losing the weight and keeping it off.

I am not putting meat-eaters down here. I am still eating meat, mostly wild caught fish. Never beef. Very occasionally chicken. But I plan to go back to being a vegetarian. I used to weight 294 pounds and went on a vegetarian diet. I lost over 100 pounds. Unfortunately, I lapsed and went back to eating meat, gaining about 25 pounds. That is what meat does to me.

The added bonus is that my cholesterol labs were very, very good. High HDL, low LDL, very low VLDL, and my triglycerides...well, my doctor said he never had seen lower levels. All because of being vegetarian. I can't wait to get back to vegetarian. Actually, why am I waiting. I think I will start today!