My response to people that say humans HAVE to eat meat...

I'm going to jump in here briefly. I apologize if I'm reiterating -- I haven't yet read through the whole thread.

I don't think we *have* to eat meat -- not by any means -- and I would agree that many Americans eat too much meat, especially too much meat from animals raised on problematic feeds (grain-feed beef, for example: bovines are optimized for grazing) and in unsanitary and inhumane conditions. Likewise, most nutritional scientists (as opposed to proprietors of fad diets) would probably agree that it is perfectly possible to be healthy on a meat-free diet.

That said, the human animal is also not designed to be an herbivore (which I mention solely because it's the most-overused and worst argument in favor of vegetarianism out there: isn't compassion argument enough, without having to fall back on pseudoscience?). Regardless of the argument some would make, neither our teeth nor our guts are typical of herbivorous species. Rather, our teeth and digestive tracts are more closely akin to those found in other omnivorous species such as hogs or canids (meanwhile, they are just as disparate from those of obligate carnivores such as cats as they are from those of true herbivores). If you take a look at the teeth and digestive tracts of ruminants (such as cows), non-ruminant herbivores (horses), humans, wolves, and cats, you'll see what I mean. There's a sort of continuum from 'really well adapted for eating plants' to 'not adapted for eating plants at all.'

This doesn't mean that we can't be healthy without meat -- indeed, eggs are an optimal source of protein for humans, and lacto-ovo vegetarians eat them, and most (not all) of our essential nutrients can be easily obtained from plant sources.

Meanwhile, it's not impossible to be a healthy vegan -- I've known vegans who were doing it wrong and vegans who were doing it right; one group tends to be skinny and unhealthy and the other skinny and very healthy. A truly vegan diet requires both careful planning and preparation and at least some degree of supplementation (B12, in particular, is not readily available from plant sources), but can be adequate for the needs of most people.

Sorry, but nothing you can say will make me feel that I have bad karma for eating an animal. God made us top of the food chain for a reason.

I'm not vegetarian but my plan is to switch to humanely raised animal food (caged free chicken, grass-fed cows, etc).
I think it's admirable to be a vegetarian or vegan for ethic purposes.
My DH told me yesterday that is boss just decided to become vegetarian. I asked why and apparently it's because he thinks he's too fat. So, in his mind, it's his weight loss solution. *facepalm* to that!
I agree that vegetarian-vegans might have less health issues related to their non-consumption of greasy fatty meat. However,
a lot of them tend to eat too much soy products and that messes up their estrogen levels = infertility problems, low sperm count, thyroid problems...

That dinosaur guy must've blocked me.
Maybe calling him out on his ignorance is a good way to proceed.

This is interesting. I have a degree in anthropology and one of the interesting facts about humans is that for most of our (anotomically human) history we did subsist largely on fruits, nuts, grains, etc. Meat was a 'luxury' and hard to come by (50,000 years ago there were no supermarkets, just you and the wild. What's easier, foraging for some grains and nuts that will quickly fill you up, or risk your life hunting an animal that could very well kill you?)

Additionally, the human digestive tract is long, which suggests that it was not intended for continuous digestion of animal protein (compare our digestive tract to that of a known carnivore, such as a lion, and you will see the difference immediately). I am a vegetarian myself, but largely for ethical reasons. But I will take the health benefits as well! Vegetarian diets have long been recognized to be a healthy alternative to a diet consisting largely of animal protein.

This is not to say that eating meat is contrary to "human nature," or that it is consistent with it - whatever that means (people argue both sides of this, believe it or not). But it does mean that our evolutionary history makes a vegetarian (or mostly vegetarian) diet very compatible with a healthy lifestyle.

The post below regarding our incisors being evidence of us being 'meat eaters' can easily be refuted, since incisors are remnants of our primate origins, not indicative of homo sapiens' eating patterns, per se (discussing our eating patterns 3 - 6 million years ago vs. 100,000 will yield very different conclusions!). In fact, most of our current teeth (and our chewing patterns) point to a style of eating consistent with grinding (lots of low flat teeth) usually associated with the breakdown of grains, nuts, legumes, etc., not with the tearing of flesh.

In the end, we are human and we have a choice in what we eat, so any argument suggesting that one way of eating is 'right' will have its opponents and proponents. I'm a vegetarian because I know that it isn't necessary to kill animals to survive and I believe that if you can minimize suffering in any capacity, you should. That is my philosophy on eating, but I also understand not every one shares that sentiment - and I don't base whether I eat meat or not on whether or not we have incisors or a short digestive tract either. Like all humans, I eat based on what I believe it is appropriate to eat in my social context. Whew!

I agree with everything you say. You are very precise. I would add that what you said extends to our homo and Australopithicene ancestors except possibly for homo sapiens neanderthalensis (or if you prefer, homo neandderthalensis). So this is going back at least one million years or possibly much longer.

That dinosaur guy must've blocked me.
Maybe calling him out on his ignorance is a good way to proceed.

Usually when the light of truth shines, dishonesty, like roaches who love darkness, run for the dusky cracks where they dwell in a joyless state of dastardliness.

They need meat!:drinker: