To all the "nice guys"

I say nice is not weak and weak is not nice. I used to think nice always meant pushover and got beat up and pushed around as a kid because of it. Eventually I just started being a prick. Then I grew up and found the happy middle. Be nice to people as often as possible, but know when you need to piss people off and have the stones to do it. That's my approach anyway.

Thanks for this

True story. I started putting more focus into who I am and what I want. What makes ME happy and you know, I found someone who I may very well spend the rest of my life with.

I agree that women like nice guys when they are in a relationship. Women, however, are always not attracted to nice guys. Ask any guy who tries to be nice to a woman and get a date. Not going to happen. We're not wired that way. There must be a demostration of higher value. That is important. Guys need a woman who demonstrates high value also. As guys, unfortunately, sometimes looks are very heavily valued. Women tend to value confidence, status (more from an importance standpoint not money or flash).

completely agree! guys/girls who can't seem to be happy with themselves and desperately seeking someone else's approval, can't really be in a position to complain about relationships...how can they love someone when they can't even love themselves!

As for the nice guy, nice girl debate, some girls tend to thing they can change *kitten* into nice dudes. Some succeed but for the most part the relationship doesn't get anywhere, because, what attracted the two isn't there anymore and men/women are as is merchandise! If you can't take someone for who they are, then you can't take them, period! No ifs, buts or maybes about it.

As for me, i don't get upset when a girl doesn't chose to be with me or things aren't working out, because a good relationship doesn't need "effort" to make each other happy, it just happens, and work in the relationship won't seem like "work" it will have a whole different label to it.

Women need to start avoiding their feelings, if they're being treated wrong and they know it, then they need to muster up their self-confidence and curb the dude! Same goes for men!

*rant done* lol

"Girls just don't like nice guys. I guess they just like a**holes." I hear this a lot and I'm sure a lot of other women have as well. I take offense to this. It implies women are stupid when it comes to dating. Sure there are some of us who see a guy with a wife beater and a mullet and think, "Mmmm...there's a hottie right there."

I have a nice guy. My husband tries to act like a jerk and I laugh at him because he just can't pull it off. You know what he has that the other "nice guys" I've met lack? Confidence. That's what women like. Confidence. That's one thing that the so-called "a**holes" have. Confidence.

If you're one of those guys who is having a hard time finding a girl, stop looking. Work on yourself (and I don't just mean do what you're already doing by being a member of this site). *Like* yourself. Don't worry so much about your looks. Don't be needy. If a girl doesn't immediately say, "Yes" don't get pushy or mad at her. Maybe she's busy.

Don't set your expectations too high. This might sound mean, but if you're a teddy bear gamer (bigger, hairy guy who's into WOW and D&D) you're not likely to find a hot blonde to date you. Yes, there are hot gamer chicks who dig teddy bears, but those are few and far between.

Most importantly, stop feeling sorry for yourself. Nothing is a bigger turn off than a guy who is so wrapped up in not having a girlfriend that he can't have a normal, pleasant conversation at dinner.

Well said sister! My fella is the same... a nice guy with confidence, on occasion bordering arrogance that he doesn't pull off too well also and he is just a lovely, lovely nice guy!

If you piss off people because you don't cater to everyone else's needs or feelings, then you aren't going to be seen as the 'nice guy', even when you are genuinely a decent person. Its just the way it works.

That is not the way it works for me. I'm an adult; I don't expect a man to cater to my "needs" and feelings if he believes in his heart that I am wrong. What I do expect is that when he disagrees with me, he does it respectfully. That is being nice. Never expressing an original thought or opinion isn't nice; it's dishonest.

The only caveat for me is in how the man chooses to express his difference of opinion. If he yells at me or insults me in telling me that I'm wrong and stupid, then of course I'm not going to see him as a nice guy. If he is able to calmly and rationally explain why he disagrees, without talking to me like I'm a 5-year-old, that will just make me respect him more.

As for me, i don't get upset when a girl doesn't chose to be with me or things aren't working out, because a good relationship doesn't need "effort" to make each other happy, it just happens, and work in the relationship won't seem like "work" it will have a whole different label to it.

Hmm, I'm not so sure about "a good relationship doesn't need 'effort'". Now, maybe I'm not the norm, but I am head over heals in love with my wife, and that love seems to continue to grow. But we both work at the relationship. I'm happy to do it, and so is my wife. I think we have a great relationship. It has grown over time because we both work at it.

Point is that work doesn't seem like work in a good relationship, in a sense that your not dreading it, your actually loving it.

That is definitely true and very frustrating. I have been going round and round with a genuinely nice guy for nearly a year. I used to live next door to him. He introduced himself to me last spring, and I discovered that in addition to being very good-looking, he's also very intelligent, successful, and one of the nicest guys I've ever met. And every time we saw each other, we would have these fascinating conversations. I thought we were getting somewhere, and the day I came home from work and found a note on my door with his phone number on it, I was pretty sure he felt the same way. But I don't pursue men. I think pursuing is their job and that if they're really interested, they'll do it. So I only called him if I had a legit reason (and I only found a legit reason once).

He never picked up on the fact that I liked him and never asked me out, so I assumed he wasn't interested, and I was dating other people. Then I moved a mile or so away about a month ago, and last week, he called me twice and texted me a few times to find out where I was and said he thinks we should "keep in touch." Really? I lived 12 feet away for quite some time, and we never "kept in touch" then. What is that about? I don't always understand "nice guys."

He's probably just too shy to ask you out. I've had girls tell me well after the fact that they were interested in me and couldn't figure out why I wasn't responding. Here are my reasons.

1. I didn't pick up on it. I'm the first to admit that I lack confidence, and my lack of self-esteem makes it difficult to interpret a woman's actions toward me as anything other than "She's just a nice person, and she probably treats everyone that way."

2. I'm shy. Painfully so. Even if I had picked up on it, I would have most likely been too scared to make the first move.

Honestly, a lot of situations like this can be explained THAT simply. A lot of nice guys are also SHY guys who have a hard time making the first move. Mystery solved.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!! I have pondered this for a while- bc I want to meet a "nice" guy- but have found the few I meet that are in fact "nice" seem like door mats to me- which I take as the nice guy is a dor mat- which isnt true- I think I meet nice guys who are either too giving, or lack confidence to say NO to me... which, I admit, doesnt go over well- but I have a very strong personality- and occasionally need a dude who can stand up for himself- but still be nice.

Fine line men- but I know you can do it!!

Exactly true. Confidence is the key.

Maybe someone already posted this but I will again:

http://www.heartless-*****es.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml

Replace the asterisks with the word that rhymes with witches.

And here is the text:

Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS
You hear it all the time: "He was such a NICE Guy, and she's such a Heartless ***** for dumping him."

I get letters from self-professed Nice Guys, complaining that women must WANT to be treated like ****, because THEY, the "Nice Guy" have failed repeatedly in relationships. This is akin to the false logic that "Whales are mammals. Whales live in the sea. Therefore, all mammals live in the sea."

If you have one bad relationship after another, the only common denominator is YOU. Think about it.

What's wrong with Nice Guys? The biggest problem is that most Nice Guys (tm) are hideously insecure. They are so anxious to be liked and loved that they do things for other people to gain acceptance and attention, rather than for the simply pleasure of giving. You never know if a Nice Guy really likes you for who you are, or if he has glommed onto you out of desperation because you actually paid some kind of attention to him.

Nice Guys exude insecurity -- a big red target for the predators of the world. There are women out there who are "users" -- just looking for a sucker to take advantage of. Users home-in on "Nice Guys", stroke their egos, take them for a ride, add a notch to their belts, and move on. It's no wonder so many Nice Guys complain about women being horrible, when the so often the kind of woman that gets attracted to them is the lowest form of life...

Self-confident, caring, decent-hearted women find "Nice Guys" to be too clingy, self-abasing, and insecure.

Nice Guys go overboard. They bring roses to a "lets get together for coffee" date. They try to buy her affections with presents and fancy things. They think they know about romance, but their timing is all wrong, and they either come-on too strong, too hard and too fast, OR, they are so shy and unassertive, that they hang around pretending to be "friends", in the hope that somehow, someway, they will get the courage up to ask her out for a "date".

They are so desperate to please that they put aside their own needs, and place the object of their desire on a pedestal. Instead of appreciating her, they worship her. We are only human, and pedestals are narrow, confining places to be -- not to mention the fact that we tend to fall off of them.

They cling to her, and want to be "one" with her for fear that if she is out of sight, she may disappear or become attracted to someone else. A Nice Guy often has trouble with emotional intimacy, because he believes that if she learns about the REAL person inside, she will no longer love him.

Nice Guys are always asking HER to make the decisions. They think it's being equitable, but it puts an unfair burden of responsibility on her, and gives him the opportunity to blame her if the decision was an unwise one.

Nice Guys rarely speak up when something bothers them, and rarely state clearly what it is they want, need and expect. They fear that any kind of conflict might spell the end of the relationship. Instead of comprimising and negotiating, they repeatedly "give in". When she doesn't appreciate their sacrifice, they will complain that, "Everything I did, I did for her.", as if this somehow elevates them to the status of martyrs. A woman doesn't want a martyr. She wants an equal, caring, adult partner.

Nice Guys think that they will never meet anyone as special as she is. They use their adoration as a foundation for claiming that "no one will ever love her as much as I do." Instead of being a profound statement of their devotion, this is a subtle, but nasty insult. It is akin to saying to her: "You are a difficult person, and only *I* can ever truly love you, so be thankful I'm here."

The nice guy -needs- to believe that he is the best person for the object of his desires, because otherwise his insecurities will overrun him with jealousies and fear. The truth of the matter is that there are many people out there who can be a good match for her. We rarely stop loving people we truly care about. Even if we no longer continue the relationship, the feelings will continue... But love isn't mutually exclusive. We can (and do) love many people in our lives, and romantic love is really no different. Though he may love her immensely, there will likely be other people who have loved her just as much in her past, and will love her just as much in the future. The irony of it all is: "Who would want to go out with someone who was inherintly unlovable anyways?"

More than loving the woman in his life, a Nice Guy NEEDS her. "She is my Life, my only source of happiness..." YECH! What kind of a burden is that to place on her? That SHE has to be responsible for YOUR happiness? Get a grip!

Another mistake Nice Guys make is to go after "hard luck" cases. They deliberately pick women with neuroses, problems, and personality disorders, because Nice Guys are "helpers". A Nice Guy thinks that by "helping" this woman, it will make him a better, more lovable person. He thinks it will give him a sense of accomplishment, and that she will appreciate and love him more, for all his efforts and sacrifice. He is usually disappointed by the results.

This ultimately boils down to the fact that Nice Guys don't like themselves. Is it any wonder women don't like them? In order to truly love someone else, you must first love yourself. Too often Nice Guys mistake obsession for "love".

Get this Guys: INSECURITY ISN'T SEXY. IT'S A TURNOFF.

You don't have to be an ego-inflated, arrogant jerk. You just have to LIKE yourself. You have to know what you want out of life, and go after it. Only then will you be attractive to the kind of woman with whom a long-term relationship is possible.

I like a good mix of the two personally, the 'gentleman-a**hole' is the perfect guy for me. Super nice guys are great as my friends but I find they are too needy as boyfriends. The a**holes are just too abusive on their own, but when you mix the two you get a confident, manly man who isnt over-emotional but when he genuinely cares for something, theres no holding back.........these guys usually take a lot of patience and strength to land, but they are soooo worth it in my opinion

I'd say there are a lot of "nice boys" out there. Nice men have to meet a higher standard that supports a healthy relationship. They all think they are "nice guys" but if they aren't having any luck with women they are lacking those qualities and don't get it.

Maybe someone already posted this but I will again:

http://www.heartless-*****es.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml

Replace the asterisks with the word that rhymes with witches.

And here is the text:

Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS
You hear it all the time: "He was such a NICE Guy, and she's such a Heartless ***** for dumping him."

I get letters from self-professed Nice Guys, complaining that women must WANT to be treated like ****, because THEY, the "Nice Guy" have failed repeatedly in relationships. This is akin to the false logic that "Whales are mammals. Whales live in the sea. Therefore, all mammals live in the sea."

If you have one bad relationship after another, the only common denominator is YOU. Think about it.

What's wrong with Nice Guys? The biggest problem is that most Nice Guys (tm) are hideously insecure. They are so anxious to be liked and loved that they do things for other people to gain acceptance and attention, rather than for the simply pleasure of giving. You never know if a Nice Guy really likes you for who you are, or if he has glommed onto you out of desperation because you actually paid some kind of attention to him.

Nice Guys exude insecurity -- a big red target for the predators of the world. There are women out there who are "users" -- just looking for a sucker to take advantage of. Users home-in on "Nice Guys", stroke their egos, take them for a ride, add a notch to their belts, and move on. It's no wonder so many Nice Guys complain about women being horrible, when the so often the kind of woman that gets attracted to them is the lowest form of life...

Self-confident, caring, decent-hearted women find "Nice Guys" to be too clingy, self-abasing, and insecure.

Nice Guys go overboard. They bring roses to a "lets get together for coffee" date. They try to buy her affections with presents and fancy things. They think they know about romance, but their timing is all wrong, and they either come-on too strong, too hard and too fast, OR, they are so shy and unassertive, that they hang around pretending to be "friends", in the hope that somehow, someway, they will get the courage up to ask her out for a "date".

They are so desperate to please that they put aside their own needs, and place the object of their desire on a pedestal. Instead of appreciating her, they worship her. We are only human, and pedestals are narrow, confining places to be -- not to mention the fact that we tend to fall off of them.

They cling to her, and want to be "one" with her for fear that if she is out of sight, she may disappear or become attracted to someone else. A Nice Guy often has trouble with emotional intimacy, because he believes that if she learns about the REAL person inside, she will no longer love him.

Nice Guys are always asking HER to make the decisions. They think it's being equitable, but it puts an unfair burden of responsibility on her, and gives him the opportunity to blame her if the decision was an unwise one.

Nice Guys rarely speak up when something bothers them, and rarely state clearly what it is they want, need and expect. They fear that any kind of conflict might spell the end of the relationship. Instead of comprimising and negotiating, they repeatedly "give in". When she doesn't appreciate their sacrifice, they will complain that, "Everything I did, I did for her.", as if this somehow elevates them to the status of martyrs. A woman doesn't want a martyr. She wants an equal, caring, adult partner.

Nice Guys think that they will never meet anyone as special as she is. They use their adoration as a foundation for claiming that "no one will ever love her as much as I do." Instead of being a profound statement of their devotion, this is a subtle, but nasty insult. It is akin to saying to her: "You are a difficult person, and only *I* can ever truly love you, so be thankful I'm here."

The nice guy -needs- to believe that he is the best person for the object of his desires, because otherwise his insecurities will overrun him with jealousies and fear. The truth of the matter is that there are many people out there who can be a good match for her. We rarely stop loving people we truly care about. Even if we no longer continue the relationship, the feelings will continue... But love isn't mutually exclusive. We can (and do) love many people in our lives, and romantic love is really no different. Though he may love her immensely, there will likely be other people who have loved her just as much in her past, and will love her just as much in the future. The irony of it all is: "Who would want to go out with someone who was inherintly unlovable anyways?"

More than loving the woman in his life, a Nice Guy NEEDS her. "She is my Life, my only source of happiness..." YECH! What kind of a burden is that to place on her? That SHE has to be responsible for YOUR happiness? Get a grip!

Another mistake Nice Guys make is to go after "hard luck" cases. They deliberately pick women with neuroses, problems, and personality disorders, because Nice Guys are "helpers". A Nice Guy thinks that by "helping" this woman, it will make him a better, more lovable person. He thinks it will give him a sense of accomplishment, and that she will appreciate and love him more, for all his efforts and sacrifice. He is usually disappointed by the results.

This ultimately boils down to the fact that Nice Guys don't like themselves. Is it any wonder women don't like them? In order to truly love someone else, you must first love yourself. Too often Nice Guys mistake obsession for "love".

Get this Guys: INSECURITY ISN'T SEXY. IT'S A TURNOFF.

You don't have to be an ego-inflated, arrogant jerk. You just have to LIKE yourself. You have to know what you want out of life, and go after it. Only then will you be attractive to the kind of woman with whom a long-term relationship is possible.

This is exactly it!