Paleo -- ur doin it wrong.
thatsnumberwang
Posts: 398 Member
I'm interested in picking a (friendly) fight about the premise of the Paleo diet/lifestyle. Basically, I have trouble buying the basic premise of the Paleo diet. As far as I understand, Paleo folks argue that our ancestors mostly ate meat and vegetables, and ate very little grain or dairy. Therefore, we evolved to eat this way, and therefore this is the healthiest way to eat.
BUT: it's just as plausible (and as far as I know there's about as much research to support the idea) that our ancestors evolved to eat *flexibly*. That is, the people who could eat whatever was available, when it was available, and survive/procreate, were the most successful. Yes, meat and plants were what we ate most often. But that doesn't mean that's what we are evolved/designed to eat, and it doesn't mean that's the only thing we *should* eat.
By the by, I'm happy to acknowledge that Paleo is a much healthier lifestyle than supersized McDonald's every day, in that it emphasizes lean meats, vegetables, and minimal junk food. But I think the assumption behind it - that we evolved to eat that way, so that's how we should eat - is deeply flawed.
Who else has opinions? :flowerforyou:
BUT: it's just as plausible (and as far as I know there's about as much research to support the idea) that our ancestors evolved to eat *flexibly*. That is, the people who could eat whatever was available, when it was available, and survive/procreate, were the most successful. Yes, meat and plants were what we ate most often. But that doesn't mean that's what we are evolved/designed to eat, and it doesn't mean that's the only thing we *should* eat.
By the by, I'm happy to acknowledge that Paleo is a much healthier lifestyle than supersized McDonald's every day, in that it emphasizes lean meats, vegetables, and minimal junk food. But I think the assumption behind it - that we evolved to eat that way, so that's how we should eat - is deeply flawed.
Who else has opinions? :flowerforyou:
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Humans ate anything that didn't kill them or make them sick.......we just eat too many of these things, and when people don't, they live longer, other lifestyle factors aside. Nothing wrong basing a diet on a paleo lifestyle, just understand it's limitations and also understand that it isn't necessarily a low carb type diet as well, unfortunately all the guru's that promote paleo also have a carb consumption allergy.0
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As an anthropologist, I felt I should add to this topic. First, the Paleolithic diet involved fruits, veggies, and meats. Those humanoids did not eat processed foods which are the bane of modern humans' existence. Also, the paleo lifestyle involved and entirely different way of life. First, the mostly nomadic peoples walked to gather their foods and nibbled as they went. The hunters expended a great deal of calories to obtain the meat that the community ate. Remember that most of the diet was fruits and veggies as meat only entered the diet out of sheer luck of the hunt. The community could go weeks without meat.
That being said, yes from an anthropological standpoint, our bodies are geared to eat fruits, veggies, and some meats. We are not evolutionarily far enough from that time for our bodies to have evolved to this new manner of eating...in other means…a diet true to our evolution would avoid all processed or man-made foods like bread, potato chips, fries..... Diabetes is the result of our human bodies being unable to process refined sugar. There is even references to "sweet urine" in ancient Egypt... Many of our common illnesses are the results of how we eat and the lifestyles we lead.
Therefore we should eat fruits, veggies, nuts, roots, meats, unrefined oils,....(now if I could just listen to what I just said...laughs...gotta have my chocolate and wine:laugh:0 -
I'm sure this will go about as well as my thread on Paleo went and mine lasted 600+ comments before getting locked
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/522226-let-s-talk-about-the-paleo-diet0 -
Paleo will make much more sensef you read more into the biochemistry involved on how our bodies hormonally respond to grains and how the grains have defense systems that can irritate the intestine leading to "leaky gut" and chronic inlfammation. It is much more complex than a "simple eat like your ancestors" and the big Paleo players are quick to point that out. They are also quick to point out that some people are more sensitive than others. The only way to know is to cut out possible offenders completely, allow your gut to heal for a month, and then slowly reintroduce and see what happens. Yes, we are flexible eaters but the biochemistry of how our body deals with these foods has not caught up to the "food" we eat currently. A nice way of thinking of the evolution is to imagine a football field and we have only eaten grains for one yard. I highly recommend Robb Wolf's Paleo Solution, especially if you want to get a better understanding of the biochemical and hormonal responses.0
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I agree with you basically on most points, but the assumption that H-G'ers were only eating little animal protein and were just lucky in their hunting seems to envision a static geographical lifestlye for all populations where learned skill in hunting was elusive.As an anthropologist, I felt I should add to this topic. First, the Paleolithic diet involved fruits, veggies, and meats. Those humanoids did not eat processed foods which are the bane of modern humans' existence. Also, the paleo lifestyle involved and entirely different way of life. First, the mostly nomadic peoples walked to gather their foods and nibbled as they went. The hunters expended a great deal of calories to obtain the meat that the community ate. Remember that most of the diet was fruits and veggies as meat only entered the diet out of sheer luck of the hunt. The community could go weeks without meat.
That being said, yes from an anthropological standpoint, our bodies are geared to eat fruits, veggies, and some meats. We are not evolutionarily far enough from that time for our bodies to have evolved to this new manner of eating...in other means…a diet true to our evolution would avoid all processed or man-made foods like bread, potato chips, fries..... Diabetes is the result of our human bodies being unable to process refined sugar. There is even references to "sweet urine" in ancient Egypt... Many of our common illnesses are the results of how we eat and the lifestyles we lead.
Therefore we should eat fruits, veggies, nuts, roots, meats, unrefined oils,....(now if I could just listen to what I just said...laughs...gotta have my chocolate and wine:laugh:
http://www.ajcn.org/content/71/3/682.full0 -
Reading this thread and sentences such as "people ate what they could get their hands on" reminds me of a funny meme I saw last week :
What if the first guy who ate poison berries just happened to be really allergic and we've been missing out on delicious berries ever since?
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IMHO Paleo is 1)too meat heavy (it doesn't make sense that ancient people were able to get meat in the volumes that we can) and 2)is not necessarily good for someone who is a casual dieter.
I can see how it SUPER helps crossfitters, but I found that, while I was eating "cleaner" I didn't lose any weight. Most paleo enthusiasts I know don't advocate for tracking calories. Even if it's clean food, too much will add weight if you're output doesn't match.0 -
I agree with you basically on most points, but the assumption that H-G'ers were only eating little animal protein and were just lucky in their hunting seems to envision a static geographical lifestlye for all populations where learned skill in hunting was elusive.As an anthropologist, I felt I should add to this topic. First, the Paleolithic diet involved fruits, veggies, and meats. Those humanoids did not eat processed foods which are the bane of modern humans' existence. Also, the paleo lifestyle involved and entirely different way of life. First, the mostly nomadic peoples walked to gather their foods and nibbled as they went. The hunters expended a great deal of calories to obtain the meat that the community ate. Remember that most of the diet was fruits and veggies as meat only entered the diet out of sheer luck of the hunt. The community could go weeks without meat.
That being said, yes from an anthropological standpoint, our bodies are geared to eat fruits, veggies, and some meats. We are not evolutionarily far enough from that time for our bodies to have evolved to this new manner of eating...in other means…a diet true to our evolution would avoid all processed or man-made foods like bread, potato chips, fries..... Diabetes is the result of our human bodies being unable to process refined sugar. There is even references to "sweet urine" in ancient Egypt... Many of our common illnesses are the results of how we eat and the lifestyles we lead.
Therefore we should eat fruits, veggies, nuts, roots, meats, unrefined oils,....(now if I could just listen to what I just said...laughs...gotta have my chocolate and wine:laugh:
http://www.ajcn.org/content/71/3/682.full
True...that statement I made is quite misleading...Nomadic populations could eat more than a static population in way of meats as they wouldn't be over hunting the local fauna. However we eat a great deal more meat than our ancestors which was really more my intention of that statement. Thanks for the caught on that...I hadn't realized how misleading I wrote that...:blushing:0 -
Humans also didn't eat everyday.... Is that healthy?0
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what i want to know is just how hungery man was to discover that shellfish was tasty:drinker:0
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Bump0
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how about:
1. cavemen are gone. for a reason i'd say.
2. their life expectancy was 20 or 25 years?
yeah. so cool.0 -
I cut out the grains that seem to cause me the most issues, namely wheat and oats. I still eat brown rice however, potatoes, veggies, fruit, nuts, seeds and dairy. although I am cutting down on my dairy gradually, simply to see if it eases my digestive issues. However, as a child, I don't recall having any problems with any food type at all, so I am not sure where I stand on the whole paleo diet topic.0
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The Paleo diet is good for some people, others, not so much. It does limit how much MEAT you eat. I think I was allowed only 3oz. at a sitting, and only 2x a day. Now my version of Paleo isn't necessarily the same as the one everyone else has, but it mainly focuses on eating fruits and vegetables, nuts, natural oils and limited grains. Wheat really was one of the first grains we learned to cultivate. Mine was a medical weight loss plan too, so it's a little different than others. It's considered the best diet for diabetics though.0
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replying to rextcat:
totally. there are lots of things that you have to wonder what was the first person to eat that thinking when they picked it up and put it in their mouth. oh, look at this mushroom growing up from dirt. i bet that tastes good.0 -
Didn't native indians invent modern farming of grains etc???? Where they unhealthy?0
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IMHO Paleo is 1)too meat heavy (it doesn't make sense that ancient people were able to get meat in the volumes that we can) and 2)is not necessarily good for someone who is a casual dieter.
I can see how it SUPER helps crossfitters, but I found that, while I was eating "cleaner" I didn't lose any weight. Most paleo enthusiasts I know don't advocate for tracking calories. Even if it's clean food, too much will add weight if you're output doesn't match.
My husband and I have been eating this way for 16 days and even though it is "meat heavy" we have lost weight. My husband in particular (who is eating a "crazy" amount of steak and chicken) has lost 16lbs. A pound a day! This diet is really a lifestyle change and we see it as more of a life away from all the processed crap and man-made food that is pushed on us daily rather than "going back to what our ancestors ate".0 -
I just want to know who the first person was to look at a cow's udder and saw: I'm gonna drink whatever comes out of that.0
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Hey, that's ok. Some like you say did eat mostly plant/fauna, but others were quite the opposite and that's just considering the few hundred H-G sites found. Throw in an iceage, long migration, varing latitudal variations and with optimal foraging key for survival I would think most would go after, if available, the source of food with the biggest nutritional bang for the buck, that being protein and fat.
I agree with you basically on most points, but the assumption that H-G'ers were only eating little animal protein and were just lucky in their hunting seems to envision a static geographical lifestlye for all populations where learned skill in hunting was elusive.As an anthropologist, I felt I should add to this topic. First, the Paleolithic diet involved fruits, veggies, and meats. Those humanoids did not eat processed foods which are the bane of modern humans' existence. Also, the paleo lifestyle involved and entirely different way of life. First, the mostly nomadic peoples walked to gather their foods and nibbled as they went. The hunters expended a great deal of calories to obtain the meat that the community ate. Remember that most of the diet was fruits and veggies as meat only entered the diet out of sheer luck of the hunt. The community could go weeks without meat.
That being said, yes from an anthropological standpoint, our bodies are geared to eat fruits, veggies, and some meats. We are not evolutionarily far enough from that time for our bodies to have evolved to this new manner of eating...in other means…a diet true to our evolution would avoid all processed or man-made foods like bread, potato chips, fries..... Diabetes is the result of our human bodies being unable to process refined sugar. There is even references to "sweet urine" in ancient Egypt... Many of our common illnesses are the results of how we eat and the lifestyles we lead.
Therefore we should eat fruits, veggies, nuts, roots, meats, unrefined oils,....(now if I could just listen to what I just said...laughs...gotta have my chocolate and wine:laugh:
http://www.ajcn.org/content/71/3/682.full
True...that statement I made is quite misleading...Nomadic populations could eat more than a static population in way of meats as they wouldn't be over hunting the local fauna. However we eat a great deal more meat than our ancestors which was really more my intention of that statement. Thanks for the caught on that...I hadn't realized how misleading I wrote that...:blushing:
An interesting group that survives today is the Kitavins of PNG where they eat mostly root veg, coconuts and fish and their diet is about 70% carbs.
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.ca/2008/08/kitavans-wisdom-from-pacific-islands.html0 -
If people are interested in learning more about the primal/paleo diet, I highly recommend marksdailyapple.com. Great source of information, especially about the science behind the primal diet.
Personally, I was never diagnosed with any food allergies or intolerances, but I feel a world better when I avoid grains and most sources of dairy. Eating primal for me means no processed food or grains, lots of veggies, sensible portions of meat, good fats, and small amounts of fruit and dairy. Best of all, I don't get nearly as hungry as I used to!
It's a big change for most people, but you might find it's worth it!
Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter0 -
Everything's good when you put sauce on it...0
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I want to know who the first person was to catch a lobster and think "I bet there's something delicious inside!"I just want to know who the first person was to look at a cow's udder and saw: I'm gonna drink whatever comes out of that.0 -
If people are interested in learning more about the primal/paleo diet, I highly recommend marksdailyapple.com. Great source of information, especially about the science behind the primal diet.
Personally, I was never diagnosed with any food allergies or intolerances, but I feel a world better when I avoid grains and most sources of dairy. Eating primal for me means no processed food or grains, lots of veggies, sensible portions of meat, good fats, and small amounts of fruit and dairy. Best of all, I don't get nearly as hungry as I used to!
It's a big change for most people, but you might find it's worth it!
Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter
Tha's just eating correctly. Nothing new or Paleo about that really0 -
I don't follow the Paleo Lifestyle. I have no desire to - however, my friend Jackie is a fitness model, owns a Crossfit Box, and is a sponsored athlete - and she swears by a Paleo Lifestyle, which is strictly adheres to.
This is her "Recipe Website" - it's got lots of info, as well as recipes and support should you be interested in living a similar lifestyle: http://primalwomeninthekitchen.blogspot.com/ or http://www.crossfitunrivaled.com/0 -
Yes. Intermittent fasting has a variety of health benefits.Humans also didn't eat everyday.... Is that healthy?0 -
As an anthropologist, I felt I should add to this topic. First, the Paleolithic diet involved fruits, veggies, and meats. Those humanoids did not eat processed foods which are the bane of modern humans' existence. Also, the paleo lifestyle involved and entirely different way of life. First, the mostly nomadic peoples walked to gather their foods and nibbled as they went. The hunters expended a great deal of calories to obtain the meat that the community ate. Remember that most of the diet was fruits and veggies as meat only entered the diet out of sheer luck of the hunt. The community could go weeks without meat.
That being said, yes from an anthropological standpoint, our bodies are geared to eat fruits, veggies, and some meats. We are not evolutionarily far enough from that time for our bodies to have evolved to this new manner of eating...in other means…a diet true to our evolution would avoid all processed or man-made foods like bread, potato chips, fries..... Diabetes is the result of our human bodies being unable to process refined sugar. There is even references to "sweet urine" in ancient Egypt... Many of our common illnesses are the results of how we eat and the lifestyles we lead.
Therefore we should eat fruits, veggies, nuts, roots, meats, unrefined oils,....(now if I could just listen to what I just said...laughs...gotta have my chocolate and wine:laugh:
I guess all that makes sense if your tribe was based in Africa or some other temperate climate, but what about the people who were in neither a temperate environment or nomadic? The populations of northern Europe ate little fruit and vegetables. In fact hese populations still eat relatively little these food types. Their diet would be predominantly meat and fats.0 -
replying to rextcat:
totally. there are lots of things that you have to wonder what was the first person to eat that thinking when they picked it up and put it in their mouth. oh, look at this mushroom growing up from dirt. i bet that tastes good.
i know right like a cactus totaly looks yummie!!lol..... :drinker:0 -
replying to rextcat:
totally. there are lots of things that you have to wonder what was the first person to eat that thinking when they picked it up and put it in their mouth. oh, look at this mushroom growing up from dirt. i bet that tastes good.
i know right like a cactus totaly looks yummie!!lol..... :drinker:
hell look at the tribes in the amazon tripping on dmt
before people had any idea of chemistry they had worked out how to not only find a drug in a plant but combine it with another plant so the body can absorb it through there gut. pretty impressive0 -
I'm not a strong Paleo follower but I am glad it came along. Thanks to Paleo and Keto, I found out my health responds more positively towards eating high protein and high fat. I've had my blood tested about every 3 months or so for 2.5 years. Eating lots of fat has made my LDL and triglycerides go down while my HDL increases. I still ate carbs but it's mostly in the form of fruits and veggies. I also still drank milk and ate rice. Occassionally, I would eat cake, cookies, hot dog... I don't want to go full Paleo because I don't think I'll be too happy elimitating so much food.
I'm mostly eating this way for health reason and also it is more enjoyable to me. Losing weight for me was not really a problem except trying to go under 10% body fat. I tried all kinds of diet and they all worked as long as I kept a deficit.
Saying that Paleo is doing it wrong well is just wrong. If it works for them, so be it.0 -
I'm really getting confused about this Paleo thing... it sounds like the Eat Clean diet...
So... what's the difference? Aren't they just the same thing with different names?
I'm a big advocate of eating clean~ even though I don't follow it 100%. It just makes sense to eat foods that have undergone as little processing as possible.
But even our veggies and fruits aren't 100% clean these days. They've undergone all kinds of genetic altering, not to mention the chemicals they get sprayed with. I don't think there's such a thing as a perfect diet these days but I'd wager those genetically altered veggies are better then that bag of chips I just ate...0
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