The "Sissifying" of America...
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i disagree.
and my kid is awesome.
the only way you become a winner is to not let the failures beat you down and keep trying. What is the saying? Edison didn't fail 500 times, he found 500 ways to not make a lightbulb work.
And had he been sufficiently rewarded for those 500 failures, he might never have found the need to go on to find the one success.
BS. What you guys are talking about is about giving kids posivibes even when they don't win like it's some crime against humanity. My son always gets told he did good even when he fails because i'm not gonna emotionally abuse him for not being the best at everything. Trying, and continuing to try, is what matters.
Trying doesn't always matter, learning how to get things right matters more. If you don't allow your kid to fail he'll never learn and learn how to get things right. I don't want a doctor who just tries, I want one who gets it right.
Nonsense. Edison kept making because he was a maker, a hacker, a tinkerer. Makers make because we HAVE to make; we hack because we HAVE to hack; we tinker because we HAVE to tinker. I want a doctor who gets it right too, but doctors are adults, not kids. Break a kid down and what you get won't be a doctor who gets it right.
Over pampering a kid breaks them down.0 -
Keep them sheltered and the world will break them down a damn site faster than losing once in a while.i disagree.
and my kid is awesome.
the only way you become a winner is to not let the failures beat you down and keep trying. What is the saying? Edison didn't fail 500 times, he found 500 ways to not make a lightbulb work.
And had he been sufficiently rewarded for those 500 failures, he might never have found the need to go on to find the one success.
BS. What you guys are talking about is about giving kids posivibes even when they don't win like it's some crime against humanity. My son always gets told he did good even when he fails because i'm not gonna emotionally abuse him for not being the best at everything. Trying, and continuing to try, is what matters.
Trying doesn't always matter, learning how to get things right matters more. If you don't allow your kid to fail he'll never learn and learn how to get things right. I don't want a doctor who just tries, I want one who gets it right.
Nonsense. Edison kept making because he was a maker, a hacker, a tinkerer. Makers make because we HAVE to make; we hack because we HAVE to hack; we tinker because we HAVE to tinker. I want a doctor who gets it right too, but doctors are adults, not kids. Break a kid down and what you get won't be a doctor who gets it right.0 -
My generation started the participation trophies... I remember the first few years of baseball as a kid (20 years ago) they didnt hand them out and then by my second / third year every one got a participation trophy but then they still gave out 1st place team trophies and individual awards.
This would not be an issue if it was just the very young, but this is being used up until high school, in some cases high school. Kids are being graduated from high school after failing the exit exam 3 times and still managing to get out because almost all California schools have a "work to pass" system.
It is funny to me because I remember speaking with a Korean friend of mine in school and she was telling me that in Northern Korea (where her family was from) they use the same philosophy to indoctrinate children at a young age. No one loses, your team is as only as good as the team you are competing against in order to solidify the idealism of communism and that they make no attempts to hide it. I am not saying we are going to fly the red flag here but geeze, it sure doesnt help.
In Capitalism there is always a winner and a loser, it depends on how much effort you put into it. In communism there is always nothing, no one really wins and no one really loses it is a team effort (unless of course you are talking about national pride and then you are DISTINCTLY different than your competitor).
I think there is a huge value in learning how to win and learning how to lose. Losing is not a bad thing, but in order to appreciate the value of winning you must have to suffer the agony of defeat. Besides, when you teach your kids you are good simply because you participated it gives them a false sense of direction that they should simply not go down that path with.
Hey TOMMY here is a prize for striking out on every pitch, YOU ARE GOING TO BE A STAR ! Seems a bit backwards to me.
Losing builds character, losing is uncomfortable and awkward no one wants to lose. Instead nowadays every one thinks they are a winner and simply not challenged, until they put their foot in the real world and it gets ran over by a truck !
You are equating two entirely different things. Passing a competency exam to graduate high school would be demonstrating competence, and failing should mean you need to go back and learn the theings you don't know. But these are not competitions where someone wins and someone else loses. Everyone can pass and everyone can fail. You're not comparing two people with different natural abilities. In the case of sports, or the OP's kid's reading competition, having one team "win" means other teams must "lose." It compares the kids to each other, not to their own abilities or to an objective source. No matter how well or how badly everyone does, someone loses if you subscribe to the winner/loser pattern. And sometimes the winner isn't the one who worked the hardest. THAT is what I don't advocate for elementary school children. They still experience failure--when they fail a test or the like. But there are no winners and losers.0 -
It's crap like this that also makes school unifo
rms a requirement,at my sons school they flat out said its so kids who can't afford designer clothes don't feel bad. Ridiculous and stupid. So now some kids have designer kahkie pants and some don't,so it didn't solve a damn thing except suck all sense of individualty away
Since this thread is about competition, I assume you think kids "competing" over clothes proves something? That the "winners" in the "individuality" competition are somehow "better?" In sports competitions people also wear uniforms--it promotes team spirit.
No I think kids need to learn that sometimes other people may have more than them,that's life. I came from a poor family I did not have designer clothes,but I could atleast be myself. I wasn't speaking on competition I was speaking on the sissy thing.0 -
Don't make me fill out a HRF.
Hurt Feelings Report
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv37/punkrockHR/hurt-feelings-report.jpg
:laugh:0 -
My generation started the participation trophies... I remember the first few years of baseball as a kid (20 years ago) they didnt hand them out and then by my second / third year every one got a participation trophy but then they still gave out 1st place team trophies and individual awards.
This would not be an issue if it was just the very young, but this is being used up until high school, in some cases high school. Kids are being graduated from high school after failing the exit exam 3 times and still managing to get out because almost all California schools have a "work to pass" system.
It is funny to me because I remember speaking with a Korean friend of mine in school and she was telling me that in Northern Korea (where her family was from) they use the same philosophy to indoctrinate children at a young age. No one loses, your team is as only as good as the team you are competing against in order to solidify the idealism of communism and that they make no attempts to hide it. I am not saying we are going to fly the red flag here but geeze, it sure doesnt help.
In Capitalism there is always a winner and a loser, it depends on how much effort you put into it. In communism there is always nothing, no one really wins and no one really loses it is a team effort (unless of course you are talking about national pride and then you are DISTINCTLY different than your competitor).
I think there is a huge value in learning how to win and learning how to lose. Losing is not a bad thing, but in order to appreciate the value of winning you must have to suffer the agony of defeat. Besides, when you teach your kids you are good simply because you participated it gives them a false sense of direction that they should simply not go down that path with.
Hey TOMMY here is a prize for striking out on every pitch, YOU ARE GOING TO BE A STAR ! Seems a bit backwards to me.
Losing builds character, losing is uncomfortable and awkward no one wants to lose. Instead nowadays every one thinks they are a winner and simply not challenged, until they put their foot in the real world and it gets ran over by a truck !
You are equating two entirely different things. Passing a competency exam to graduate high school would be demonstrating competence, and failing should mean you need to go back and learn the theings you don't know. But these are not competitions where someone wins and someone else loses. Everyone can pass and everyone can fail. You're not comparing two people with different natural abilities. In the case of sports, or the OP's kid's reading competition, having one team "win" means other teams must "lose." It compares the kids to each other, not to their own abilities or to an objective source. No matter how well or how badly everyone does, someone loses if you subscribe to the winner/loser pattern. And sometimes the winner isn't the one who worked the hardest. THAT is what I don't advocate for elementary school children. They still experience failure--when they fail a test or the like. But there are no winners and losers.
Its unfair to state the winners weren't the ones who worked the hardest, they might had been the ones who worked hard and then see the team who lost being rewarded the same is crushing, especially when you did indeed work hard and did things right.0 -
I'm amazed that some of you actually don't see anything wrong with giving all the kids the same blue ribbon. If a child does not have the ability to excel at something, that is the hand they were dealt.
This is the kind of stuff that causes people to think they are entitled to everything for doing nothing.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
A child who works very hard, and to the best of his/her ability, and still doesn't come in first, has not "done nothing." I am amazed that you don't see that children's rewards should be determined by trying rather than by coming in first.
Rewarding a child for coming in last, especially when they all know who did well and who didn't is TEACHING them they can "do nothing" and get the same things everyone else gets.0 -
for very little kids, I support the "everyone gets a ribbon", after 2nd grade, if they lose, they lose.
Yes This! It's our jobs as parents to grow our kids into adults. They need to learn to cope with loss, rejection etc. Some of the kids these days are so micromanaged they are going to have a hard time being adults. There are actually parents who go on job interviews with their kids and intervene when the kids are fired. It's crazy! The consequense of this way of raising children is already very evident.
There is an amazing Canadian documentary called Hyper Parents & Coddled Kids. Here is the link http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/doczone/2010/hyperparents/
I have a 6 and 14 year old...Parented Old School!0 -
what about the kid that worked his *kitten* off to be #1? he's going to get the same trophy as the kid that did terrible. whats the point in trying hard for anything?
What about the kid who works JUST AS HARD and could never be #1 no matter what? It's plenty soon for them to compete on that level when they are in HS and college. Fifth graders should be rewarded for working hard, no matter where they rank in the scoring. The kid who worked the hardest might also be the one who came in last.
obviously they need to try harder. im not saying a kid that doesnt come in first sucks. im just saying they need to work hard to come in first. im not saying they didnt give it their all either.
this is coming from someone who didnt win a damn thing as a kid. i should have tried harder.0 -
BTW we don't get paid at our jobs for "trying". We won't all get hired/promoted just because we showed up.0
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i disagree.
and my kid is awesome.
the only way you become a winner is to not let the failures beat you down and keep trying. What is the saying? Edison didn't fail 500 times, he found 500 ways to not make a lightbulb work.
And had he been sufficiently rewarded for those 500 failures, he might never have found the need to go on to find the one success.
BS. What you guys are talking about is about giving kids posivibes even when they don't win like it's some crime against humanity. My son always gets told he did good even when he fails because i'm not gonna emotionally abuse him for not being the best at everything. Trying, and continuing to try, is what matters.
Trying doesn't always matter, learning how to get things right matters more. If you don't allow your kid to fail he'll never learn and learn how to get things right. I don't want a doctor who just tries, I want one who gets it right.
Nonsense. Edison kept making because he was a maker, a hacker, a tinkerer. Makers make because we HAVE to make; we hack because we HAVE to hack; we tinker because we HAVE to tinker. I want a doctor who gets it right too, but doctors are adults, not kids. Break a kid down and what you get won't be a doctor who gets it right.
Explain then the advances in science and medicine throughout the 20th century.
I notice you also refuse to respond to other posts I have made that show the folly of your presumptions.
Can you?
I have not "refused" to respond to anything. WTF are you talking about?0 -
I'm amazed that some of you actually don't see anything wrong with giving all the kids the same blue ribbon. If a child does not have the ability to excel at something, that is the hand they were dealt.
This is the kind of stuff that causes people to think they are entitled to everything for doing nothing.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
A child who works very hard, and to the best of his/her ability, and still doesn't come in first, has not "done nothing." I am amazed that you don't see that children's rewards should be determined by trying rather than by coming in first.
Rewarding a child for coming in last, especially when they all know who did well and who didn't is TEACHING them they can "do nothing" and get the same things everyone else gets.
The child who works very hard to the best of his/her ability will be rewarded for the accomplishment. You can't expect to be the CEO of a company if, when you try your hardest, you still can't come in at #1. Sorry, that's the way it is. They will have to accept a position they are capable of doing which is probably going to be further down the totem pole. There are always ways to improve, so if they show initiative and improve, they will likely be rewarded to the extent of their further learning. In the real world there are people who make minimum wage and there are people who make a fortune. Guaranteed; the person who didn't have the motivation to finish high school won't be looking out the corner windows on the top floor.
If your kid doesn't do well when they did try hard, you don't berate them and call them a loser as some people here seem to think is the alternative to giving everyone a prize. You say you know they tried hard, but some people try harder. So next time they will be more prepared to perform well. They will learn how to get the prize. And still, as I mentioned above, some people will never get 1st prize. It doesn't mean you give up and quit. You don't have to be #1 to be successful.0 -
I agree with the OP 150%!! We are headed down the crapper with this ”no one loses” mentality. Then reality slaps these kids a few years later when the real world kicks their *kitten*.0
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Send your kids to law school - that will fix them. Lots of rejection and plenty of losers there.0
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Pffttt...I don't even HAVE any of my old blue ribbons, and I got them back in the days when they were awarded because I was legitimately better than everyone else. But you know what? It doesn't matter, because I still have the memory of being better than everyone.
And your daughter still knows her team had the 3rd most points overall...regardless of what color her ribbon is. Maybe you can point that out to her, after you're done chastising her for only ending up in 3rd place. Sheesh!
I chastised her? I surely did not. Learn to read. I SPECIFICALLY said I was very happy to have her finish third. Can you not read, or did you intentionally miss it, and my point?0 -
Well, I was the last one picked, too, and I wasn't the fat kid. The fat kid got picked ahead of me. I was clumsy. I have Asperger's, (a form of high-functioning autism) so I'm smart, and classes and tests were EASY for me, but my muscle coordination is very bad due to Asperger's so I'm not good at sports. Add to that that I have no depth perception, so I can't throw accurately or catch. No amount of practice will fix this. I am physically unable to tell where in space things are. And I did do what could be done about it. I was mercilessly teased because I looked like frankenstein after eye surgery that was supposed to fix my vison problems. It didn't, so I am still unable to tell where things are in space, still can't throw accurately or catch. What else would you suggest I do about it? Or do some people just deserve to be treated as losers because they are born losers?
Doesn't mean you born a loser. It means you were born with or developed special needs. Maybe, you shouldn't have been set-up for failure if that is the case.
You tap into the talents someone has.
All kids have special needs, not just those on the autism spectrum. All kids are different. It's possible, even desireable, to encourage kids to compare themselves to them selves, not to other kids, to measure success. You're not "sissifying" kids by asserting they can all be winners. They may not all BE winners, mind you, but it is absolutely true that they all can be.
BTW, I didn't know about my Asperger's when I was a kid. I was diagnosed as an adult. It explains a lot of the whys of my childhood, but, because my IQ is actually high (which isn't unusual with Asperger's) I received no special attention in school. I dreaded phys ed classes, where I'd be made fun of and explicitly called a "loser" regularly becaaquse of things I could do nothing about.
I think you are hung up on the bullying side of it when the issue at hand is whether not declaring "winners" or "losers" is making "sissys" of this generation. Should you have been bullied because you weren't as coordinated at sports as other kids? No, ofcourse not. I think what most people are trying to say on here is that during competitions, whether that be athletic or academic, there should be a clear cut winner. No one is saying a kid should be bullied for not excelling in a particular area. We all have our strengths and weaknesses and by having competitions with a "winner" and "loser" our youth will be able to better hone in on what they do well at.
And I agree with you, BUT whenever children are required to participate then there needs to be no winners and losers. Only when children and their parent's can choose not to participate should we be choosing winners.
Disagree. Life isn't something you get to choose to take part in, and if you aint winning, you're losing. I was always expected to do my best, whatever that was, and if I didn't do well I didn't get put down about it, but also wasn't told 'You did so well! Here, have a cookie!'. When I won, I was rewarded and it taught me and most of the other people in this thread the importance of hard work and pushing yourself to succeed.
So the take away from this thread is "there is only one winner" and "if you ain't winning, you're losing." That right? We should make fifth graders feel like losers no matter how hard they work unless they are the winner in a school event? BTW, the OP's daughter's team DIDN'T win--they were third. Losers?
And it's sad that you weren't told you did well when you worked hard for something, even if you didn't win. Because you DID do well if you did the best you could, and you deserved to be rewarded for that. If you truly did the very best you could, and you said you were always expected to do that, then not rewarding you for that hard work will never improve your performance, ever.
No, the takeaway is that you can learn to lose and learn from it. I swear, some of you can't comprehend anything. I am FOR kids learning how to lose and grow from it. I am AGAINST everybody getting told that they are awesomely wonderful winners, when, in fact, they did not win.0 -
You can reward kids for trying, sure. But maybe you should also teach them how to succeed, and the consequences of failure as well...
"...consequences of failure..." ?!? at 10YO?!? If a child has done the best s/he can, s/he HAS succeeded, whatever the score...
I absolutely agree... If a child has done their best, they have succeeded. That's all we can ask is that they do their best.0 -
Liberalism at it's peak! I agree with Mike in saying, Liberalism is a mental disorder. Seriously, it's ruining this country.
That's horse hockey...I'm a liberal and I'm completely against Breathing trophies. I'm also again rich kids being born on third base and thinking they hit a triple, the conservative side of this coin.0 -
Liberalism at it's peak! I agree with Mike in saying, Liberalism is a mental disorder. Seriously, it's ruining this country.
That's horse hockey...I'm a liberal and I'm completely against Breathing trophies. I'm also again rich kids being born on third base and thinking they hit a triple, the conservative side of this coin.
You know, I am the OP.... and I have a wee bit of liberalism in me too.... actually, I am a registered independent.
This isn't about liberalism or conservatism from my point of view. It's as simple as a child being allowed to experience losing, and learning to grow from loss.
I have absolutely no idea how some of these folks think I want to put down kids who didn't finish first. I never wrote that, I don't think that, and I would never call a kid a loser if they tried their best. Hell, I would be happy to know that they just gave a solid effort.0 -
Liberalism at it's peak! I agree with Mike in saying, Liberalism is a mental disorder. Seriously, it's ruining this country.
That's horse hockey...I'm a liberal and I'm completely against Breathing trophies. I'm also again rich kids being born on third base and thinking they hit a triple, the conservative side of this coin.
You know, I am the OP.... and I have a wee bit of liberalism in me too.... actually, I am a registered independent.
This isn't about liberalism or conservatism from my point of view. It's as simple as a child being allowed to experience losing, and learning to grow from loss.
I have absolutely no idea how some of these folks think I want to put down kids who didn't finish first. I never wrote that, I don't think that, and I would never call a kid a loser if they tried their best. Hell, I would be happy to know that they just gave a solid effort.
I'm pretty liberal and I don't believe in over pampering children. Its not a liberal or conservative issue since there are conservatives who overly pamper their children as well.0
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