Attitudes of people with different levels of fitness and wei

To the OP…
I agree there is a difference between (making generalizations here) (1) the attitudes an optimum weight (normal BMI/fit person) and (2) a person still working on reducing adipose tissue and exercising to a better healthy level and (3) the person who is not even addressing their health issues and (4) everyone in between.

In the first category, I think there is also a difference between (1a) someone who is optimally fit and (1b) someone who has been obese and is now optimum weight and fit.

In the second category I think there is a difference between (2a) vanity and <20 lbs. and (2b) losing > 100 lbs.

Even category 3 has some variance between total oblivion (i.e., denial) and fully aware but just not ready to make the changes. (This is where I believe most obese people fall). What you call denial, I call defense mechanisms from attacks by the members of the other categories. Fat-on-fat criticism/attack is very uncommon.
I think there is an ever changing attitude in this area no matter where you start and where you end up.

For example,
Cat 1a: I have a no-nonsense ‘eat less, exercise more’ attitude; the ‘it comes to me naturally’ right balance between intake and output; I notice a weight gain and naturally reduce my intake until weight is back where I want it, while easily maintaining an active lifestyle. I don’t know what it is like to have insatiable hunger or live in an urban oasis.
Cat 1b: I vigilantly watch my food and calorie intake and exercise regime. I cannot stray from my plan lest I return to where I was previously. I am still working at getting my intake and output stable and worry-free.
Cat 2: I am working at getting my calorie intake and level of exercise to the point where I will consistently and constantly lose weight. I usually have to adjust my calorie intake down and increase my exercise to achieve this and it is a challenge for me. It may be influenced by:
emotional eating or eating disorders,
life (pregnancy/moving/commuting/divorce/layoffs) interferences – high stressors
hampered by hormones and fluctuations in the levels due to many factors not the least of which is high stress, aging and LOSING weight. Brain chemical balances – there is a complex system of chemicals that send FEED ME signals between your brain and your body (leptin, gherlin, peptide YY, hCG, thyroid, adrenal glands, etc) regarding satiety and hunger AND how efficiently fuel is used or saved.
Hunger - adjust intake down to provide less immediate fuel so fat stores will be used during exercise (enough to use ingested fuel and stored fuel which creates a demand for more fuel – i.e. hunger to be denied) to achieve this. And the aforementioned hormones and chemicals.
amount of weight/length of time it takes to lose – this is where there is a difference between
(2a) short term(<6 months) and (2b) long term (>12 months) weight loss efforts. There can be a sense of being overwhelmed by or a reduction in motivation/commitment when the prospect of being in ‘losing’ mode for over 12 months.
There are sooo many factors that can contribute to this thing we call weight loss and fitness (and the attitudes that are prevalent among all participants --not just the fat and unfit) that even the smartest and most dedicated physicians tackling this problem are still stumped by how it all works together.

Simply put it is calories in and calories out… but is it really simple??? The difficulty lies in developing an individual plan for ME to know which calories (nutrients and micronutrients – sodium, 30 grams fiber, 100 grams calcium, dietary supplements, etc.) how (carbs combined with protein or preload a workout with carbs or post workout protein shake) and when those calories are eaten (6 small meals a day or three medium with some snacks or large breakfast then small lunch and dinner), in what quantity (i.e., 50% carbs/20%fat/30%proteins) and form (raw, processed, vegan) while controlling hunger and food is palatable and satisfying, duration (how long can I stay motivated and committed to this routine, is it sustainable for life, should I change it up, if so when and to what)
And calories out – how to do cardio (gangbusters or gradually increase so you have room to increase when WL stalls?), when (better in am or pm or when you can), which cardio (walk the dog, treadmill, biking), how intense (HIIT or follow the HRM for ‘fat loss’) where (at home or at a gym), duration (is 20-30 min a day as good as the studies show, how much is too much), same questions for strength training adding in the complexities of which muscles groups, amount of weight and when to increase, when (every other day), etc.

Category 3
I disagree with the statement that “Denial and political correctness are the major contributors to increasing trend of obesity”. There are way more social factors involved in this complex issue.
Ethnic issues - There IS a difference between Asian people and ‘strong like bull’ European people. Anthropologically, there are many reasons for this and some can be attributed to the hunter/gatherer era of human development and survival of the fattest when confronted with famine!
Inherited health(nature) and habits (nuture)- There is a genetic link to hormone/brain chemical issues and many other health issues. You are what you were when you were young - parental and significant others influence our food intake selections (three square meals a day with dessert back when it was meat, starch, vegetable, dairy in equal portions), amount (did you belong to the ‘clean plate club’) and varieties (meat not fish) as well as generational – my grandmother always said pigs sweat, men perspire and women glow which implied and encouraged a low activity level for women.
Developed health - There can be injuries and illnesses that control the type, amount and duration of exercise for fitness.
Social – The familial support system or lack thereof. This is so big of an issue it cannot be addressed by experts let alone on a diet forum. Add in the habits and traditions of a social group (usually revolving around food not exercise)? Add in other social-economic factors such as type of job, home locations (Is there an affordable gym? Is it in an urban oasis where either fresh food is not available or very inconvenient to obtain? Can you imagine carrying a couple of grocery bags from the bus stop to home in a less than safe neighborhood?)
Look at the school systems where its hard to get funding for a food budget that limits the amount of processed foods. It’s not just the cost of food but also paying people to prepare fresh food items too. There are big demands on the school budgets for actual school supplies. Where do you want your tax dollars spent? School supplies so kids can learn, afterschool activities to establish active life habits, fresh food to establish healthy eating habits?

Denial and political correctness are most certainly NOT the major contributors to increasing obesity. There are many more factors involved in this complex issue.


Wow! I had a lot to say!

To the OP…
I agree there is a difference between (making generalizations here) (1) the attitudes an optimum weight (normal BMI/fit person) and (2) a person still working on reducing adipose tissue and exercising to a better healthy level and (3) the person who is not even addressing their health issues and (4) everyone in between.

In the first category, I think there is also a difference between (1a) someone who is optimally fit and (1b) someone who has been obese and is now optimum weight and fit.

In the second category I think there is a difference between (2a) vanity and <20 lbs. and (2b) losing > 100 lbs.

Even category 3 has some variance between total oblivion (i.e., denial) and fully aware but just not ready to make the changes. (This is where I believe most obese people fall). What you call denial, I call defense mechanisms from attacks by the members of the other categories. Fat-on-fat criticism/attack is very uncommon.
I think there is an ever changing attitude in this area no matter where you start and where you end up.

For example,
Cat 1a: I have a no-nonsense ‘eat less, exercise more’ attitude; the ‘it comes to me naturally’ right balance between intake and output; I notice a weight gain and naturally reduce my intake until weight is back where I want it, while easily maintaining an active lifestyle. I don’t know what it is like to have insatiable hunger or live in an urban oasis.
Cat 1b: I vigilantly watch my food and calorie intake and exercise regime. I cannot stray from my plan lest I return to where I was previously. I am still working at getting my intake and output stable and worry-free.
Cat 2: I am working at getting my calorie intake and level of exercise to the point where I will consistently and constantly lose weight. I usually have to adjust my calorie intake down and increase my exercise to achieve this and it is a challenge for me. It may be influenced by:
emotional eating or eating disorders,
life (pregnancy/moving/commuting/divorce/layoffs) interferences – high stressors
hampered by hormones and fluctuations in the levels due to many factors not the least of which is high stress, aging and LOSING weight. Brain chemical balances – there is a complex system of chemicals that send FEED ME signals between your brain and your body (leptin, gherlin, peptide YY, hCG, thyroid, adrenal glands, etc) regarding satiety and hunger AND how efficiently fuel is used or saved.
Hunger - adjust intake down to provide less immediate fuel so fat stores will be used during exercise (enough to use ingested fuel and stored fuel which creates a demand for more fuel – i.e. hunger to be denied) to achieve this. And the aforementioned hormones and chemicals.
amount of weight/length of time it takes to lose – this is where there is a difference between
(2a) short term(<6 months) and (2b) long term (>12 months) weight loss efforts. There can be a sense of being overwhelmed by or a reduction in motivation/commitment when the prospect of being in ‘losing’ mode for over 12 months.
There are sooo many factors that can contribute to this thing we call weight loss and fitness (and the attitudes that are prevalent among all participants --not just the fat and unfit) that even the smartest and most dedicated physicians tackling this problem are still stumped by how it all works together.

Simply put it is calories in and calories out… but is it really simple??? The difficulty lies in developing an individual plan for ME to know which calories (nutrients and micronutrients – sodium, 30 grams fiber, 100 grams calcium, dietary supplements, etc.) how (carbs combined with protein or preload a workout with carbs or post workout protein shake) and when those calories are eaten (6 small meals a day or three medium with some snacks or large breakfast then small lunch and dinner), in what quantity (i.e., 50% carbs/20%fat/30%proteins) and form (raw, processed, vegan) while controlling hunger and food is palatable and satisfying, duration (how long can I stay motivated and committed to this routine, is it sustainable for life, should I change it up, if so when and to what)
And calories out – how to do cardio (gangbusters or gradually increase so you have room to increase when WL stalls?), when (better in am or pm or when you can), which cardio (walk the dog, treadmill, biking), how intense (HIIT or follow the HRM for ‘fat loss’) where (at home or at a gym), duration (is 20-30 min a day as good as the studies show, how much is too much), same questions for strength training adding in the complexities of which muscles groups, amount of weight and when to increase, when (every other day), etc.

Category 3
I disagree with the statement that “Denial and political correctness are the major contributors to increasing trend of obesity”. There are way more social factors involved in this complex issue.
Ethnic issues - There IS a difference between Asian people and ‘strong like bull’ European people. Anthropologically, there are many reasons for this and some can be attributed to the hunter/gatherer era of human development and survival of the fattest when confronted with famine!
Inherited health(nature) and habits (nuture)- There is a genetic link to hormone/brain chemical issues and many other health issues. You are what you were when you were young - parental and significant others influence our food intake selections (three square meals a day with dessert back when it was meat, starch, vegetable, dairy in equal portions), amount (did you belong to the ‘clean plate club’) and varieties (meat not fish) as well as generational – my grandmother always said pigs sweat, men perspire and women glow which implied and encouraged a low activity level for women.
Developed health - There can be injuries and illnesses that control the type, amount and duration of exercise for fitness.
Social – The familial support system or lack thereof. This is so big of an issue it cannot be addressed by experts let alone on a diet forum. Add in the habits and traditions of a social group (usually revolving around food not exercise)? Add in other social-economic factors such as type of job, home locations (Is there an affordable gym? Is it in an urban oasis where either fresh food is not available or very inconvenient to obtain? Can you imagine carrying a couple of grocery bags from the bus stop to home in a less than safe neighborhood?)
Look at the school systems where its hard to get funding for a food budget that limits the amount of processed foods. It’s not just the cost of food but also paying people to prepare fresh food items too. There are big demands on the school budgets for actual school supplies. Where do you want your tax dollars spent? School supplies so kids can learn, afterschool activities to establish active life habits, fresh food to establish healthy eating habits?

Denial and political correctness are most certainly NOT the major contributors to increasing obesity. There are many more factors involved in this complex issue.


Wow! I had a lot to say!

may be the best breakdown thus far!

Let me just say there is NO such thing as naturally skinny people. They eat less and possibly move more.

Why do they eat less? Are they chronically hungry like everyone who is obese yet they just have amazing willpower? Of course not, they eat a tiny amount of calories and are satiated because they are lucky as hell. When they overeat, they expend more energy or delay their next meal to compensate. There is plenty of evidence suggesting these people exist.

There was a fascinating show on British television that studied why naturally skinny people were skinny. Put a bunch of naturally skinny people on high-calorie diets, limited activity via pedometers, and checked the results. It was fascinating. One guy simply did not gain much fat. Even without exercising - and even though he limited his walking as much as possible - his body converted the extra calories to muscle.

Also, all the participants lost the weight in a few weeks without consciously dieting. They simply stopped deliberately overeating.

I'll try to find the link to the show on Youtube....

Ah! Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6-A0iHSdcA

I agree that metabolism is often thrown around as the sole cause of obesity / being overweight.

I think its simply coming down to the fact that those that are fit or have reach their ideal weight / body shape have put in the effort to understand the concepts that underlie weight loss: nutrition and exercise.

It often probably takes a while for someone who's never considered these concepts to actually to consider that they play a role in why they are where they are, and possibly even longer to sit through and go down the learning pathway that others who have lost weight have done before them.

+1
I also love the fat gene arguement and the my whole family are large one.

Im 194lbs because I have over eaten I know I have and im not in denial about that I know I need to lose weight and I am losing slowly as I am not dong a stupid starvation diet id rather have as little as 100cal deficit and eat very nutritious meals low in fat and keep me full

^^ The fat gene argument! It angers me to no end. The majority of my family is extremely overweight. I actually had a family member (before I lost 104+ pounds my first lifestyle change around) tell me that it runs in the family and I should not bother trying to lose weight because "I would never be able to be thin. It's not in the genes"

I sure proved them wrong. With some work and healthy habits, I am healthy and on my way to being very fit.

I do agree tho. Once you become more healthy, you adopt a no nonsense attitude, make no excuses and do not have a defeated attitude about a healthy lifestyle (like "slow metabolism is the problem").

Let me just say there is NO such thing as naturally skinny people. They eat less and possibly move more.

Why do they eat less? Are they chronically hungry like everyone who is obese yet they just have amazing willpower? Of course not, they eat a tiny amount of calories and are satiated because they are lucky as hell. When they overeat, they expend more energy or delay their next meal to compensate. There is plenty of evidence suggesting these people exist.

There was a fascinating show on British television that studied why naturally skinny people were skinny. Put a bunch of naturally skinny people on high-calorie diets, limited activity via pedometers, and checked the results. It was fascinating. One guy simply did not gain much fat. Even without exercising - and even though he limited his walking as much as possible - his body converted the extra calories to muscle.

Also, all the participants lost the weight in a few weeks without consciously dieting. They simply stopped deliberately overeating.

I'll try to find the link to the show on Youtube....

Ah! Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6-A0iHSdcA

I guess these folks lack the psychological or moral defect that leads to gluttonous excuse-driven behavior.

Really?? You want to make this a moral issue? If your immoral issues (by my standards not yours), faults and imperfections were visible for all to see, what would you look like? This kind of judgemental bashing of fat people is so shallow and immature its pathetic. "Judge not lest ye be judged."

Let me just say there is NO such thing as naturally skinny people. They eat less and possibly move more.

Why do they eat less? Are they chronically hungry like everyone who is obese yet they just have amazing willpower? Of course not, they eat a tiny amount of calories and are satiated because they are lucky as hell. When they overeat, they expend more energy or delay their next meal to compensate. There is plenty of evidence suggesting these people exist.

There was a fascinating show on British television that studied why naturally skinny people were skinny. Put a bunch of naturally skinny people on high-calorie diets, limited activity via pedometers, and checked the results. It was fascinating. One guy simply did not gain much fat. Even without exercising - and even though he limited his walking as much as possible - his body converted the extra calories to muscle.

Also, all the participants lost the weight in a few weeks without consciously dieting. They simply stopped deliberately overeating.

I'll try to find the link to the show on Youtube....

Ah! Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6-A0iHSdcA

I guess these folks lack the psychological or moral defect that leads to gluttonous excuse-driven behavior.

Really?? You want to make this a moral issue? If your immoral issues (by my standards not yours), faults and imperfections were visible for all to see, what would you look like? This kind of judgemental bashing of fat people is so shallow and immature its pathetic. "Judge not lest ye be judged."

I did already post my stance, but this is a long thread so I forgive you for missing the sarcasm. Basically the majority of posters here are implying this statement that I just said sarcastically.

mea culpa

It's the character judgement that annoys me. That's what Grinch and I are on about. The fact is, some people have a very, very hard time losing weight. For some people it is effortless. Most people fall somewhere in between. But, for the ones who have a hard time losing it (never mind keeping it off), it may be harder than a lot of people could manage to do, short of being deported to a gulag.

Anybody would lose weight in a gulag. That's because they'd be starved and forced to do hard physical labour. So, I am NOT saying that weight gain/loss is unrelated to calorie consumption and expenditure. However, for some people, the challenges of overcoming the urge to eat (which can be physiological, not just emotional) and/or to overcome their bodies' tendency to hoard energy via slowed metabolism may be far greater than the rest of us can imagine.

And to augment that, I don't see this as an excuse for anyone to give up their weight loss battle, but I think people need to approach weight loss in a smarter way than the typical over-simplications I see on this forum like "eat less, move more" or "all calories are the same", etc. I really think people need to find a sweet spot where they can manage hunger AND a caloric deficit at the same time, and that sweet pot is determined by the quality of foods they eat.

You cant complain about something that you are doin nothing to change.

This this this this this this thisthistsitsihtishtishtihsihti

QFT
10char

I read this a long time ago and rely on it every now and then when I have a problem with my obstacles:

“Set Yourself Free” by Ralph Marston---"There is no outside force holding you back. You are holding you back and you are blaming it on someone or something else. The way you are able to continue holding yourself back is by maintaining the illusion that you're a victim. Once you realize that illusion, you will naturally and easily move forward. In fact, it is easier to fulfill your best possibilities than it is to avoid them. So let go of the blame and watch the limitations drop away. Certainly there will always be challenges that hold you back. For each challenge provides you with a pathway through which you can move toward fulfillment. It is your very nature to accomplish. Lovingly accept your destiny, and allow that accomplishment to be manifest through you. Set yourself free to follow your purpose. Set yourself free to truly live." Visit Mr. Marston at http://www.greatday.com/

(you have to include his web address when you quote him)

The hard part is finding the pathway through which I can move beyond the challenge.

Maybe a lot of people don't realize that metabolism is affected by exercise and muscle. .....

OK I have aerobic asthma (I can't breath if my blossom pressure or heart rate goes up) and I have pelvic prolapse excercise can worsen both conditions but if I stay obese my prolapse even with surgery will still happen add diabetes cause I'm fat would improve if I loose the weight what exercise is left also have back injury not supposed to lift more than 5-10 lbs with everything I felt defeated before I even begin what's the point of modifying food if I don't know how to exercise let alone when I have 3 kids my day is get up at 6 get kids to ready fir school/ Daycare. See them to bus stops. Get ready for work grab granola bar for breakfast take last kid to daycare eat on drive straight to work sometimes I don't get to eat til dinner I'm a hairdresser so business is all over the place get off at 7 get home start dinner homework with kids laundry switch eat and feed kids my food is usually cold by the time I get to sit and eat get kids in shower and to bed clean up from dinner switch and fold laundry by this time it is after ten.and I'm exhausted any suggestions

Very good observations! Whenever fat (yes, I said it!) people say their whole family is obese, so it must be their genetics, I can't help but wonder if they think their parents are related. Then I think they might have larger problems than obesity. It's interesting how they refuse to see the correlation between the food culture in their family and the weight problems. There are definitely some people who have a harder time losing weight than others, but it is never impossible. My favorite posts on the Success board are definitely the ones where people have gained control of their bodies despite serious illnesses!

"the harder you train, the better you're genetics become"

Truth.

Likewise all exercise is not created equal. Progressive exercise leads to results. Exercise for exercise's sake to lose weight...not so much.

Okay, I'm a research psychologist and I don't know that your observations are true or not BUT . . .

It would make sense that people who are thin and fit attribute their good characteristics to their own efforts (food intake and exercise).

And for people who are overweight attribute their bad characteristics to something they can't control (metabolism, bad schedule, having a baby).

It is harder to say yes, I'm really thin because I'm lucky and have a crazy fast metabolism or yes, I'm fat because I eat too much junk and never exercise.