Attitudes of people with different levels of fitness and wei

umachanxo

It's because many people get caught up in their excuses. When you've used them all of your life, you start to believe them. I used to make excuses, but I'm stronger now.

chrishgt4

There is no compelling evidence whatsoever that either calorie restriction or exercise are effective treatments for obesity.

Forgive me but if you truly feel this way I have no idea why you'd be on a website for tracking calories. Don't be surprised to find your statements met with great resistance around here. They fly in the face of everything this place is for.

I don't feel this way for any other reason than that's what the data shows.

From the article you posted:

"Eating in moderation is a good idea for everybody, and so is regular exercise," Mann said. "That is not what we looked at in this study. Exercise may well be the key factor leading to sustained weight loss. Studies consistently find that people who reported the most exercise also had the most weight loss."

What they were focusing on is 'fad' diets. These are generally agreed not to work.

They were not looking at people who change their lifestyle, by eating properly and exercising more.

In fact when it comes to exercise - they agree that it does aid weight loss.

abbybean11

i haven't read what everyone else said, but I'm overweight (recently i've lost 30 lbs and went from being obese to overweight, now i have 20 more to go until I'm in the normal bmi weight range) - i personally don't have a problem with the word fat, and i always made excuses that i had a slow metabolism and until i finally admitted that i was making poor choices and being lazy i wasn't able to buckle down and actually lose weight. at one point when i was obese i was talking about how i wished i were thin, and my also obese friend told me "don't say that! being overweight is totally normal now! the majority of america is like us!" that's when i first realized that there is a serious problem with that acceptance mentality. i don't believe in worshiping a certain "size" or "look" like many Americans do - but i do think "health" should be a TOP priority - and being obese is NOT healthy. no question about that.

donna_glasgow

Depo (the pill shot), is horrible. I gained on it, too... and those pounds were way harder to lose than anything I have ever experienced. Even my doctor agreed that it causes weight gain (though, she did not tell me that BEFORE I took it). It is what led me to google any drug I take.

So glad someone else on this site has had this issue ............. like you my doc only told me AFTER id gained ..... great eh

notdancinganymore

To me this is all about JUDGEMENT than about ATTITUDE. Who are we to decided what another person needs to journey through in their life. And who are we to judge if they are "fat" or not.

grinch031

I guess all the ongoing obesity research is a waste of time since it all boils down to gluttonous behavior and excuses right? Why bother researching when a simple physics equation is the answer to a complex biochemical process?

Simple. Money. If they can figure out that "silver bullet" that allows people to lose weight without putting in effort. It will be worth billions of dollars.

I don't buy it. Its really simple that most people on this thread have narrow-minded unscientific views of the world around them. There is plenty of scientific evidence supporting the idea that our body's response to the environment we live in (ie. full of easily accessible toxic processed foods) is the cause of obesity, not the psychological behaviors of each individual.

Not everybody is in it for the money. We really do need to find a solution that works. There is no compelling evidence whatsoever that either calorie restriction or exercise are effective treatments for obesity.

"There is no compelling evidence whatsoever that either calorie restriction or exercise are effective treatments for obesity."

This comment convinces me that you are, as I suspected, trolling...

That is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard.

Open question on here - how many people have had success, whether it be fat loss or muscle gain that wasn't attributed to eating properly and exercising regularly?

I think anyone with any level of success knows it is all about those things...

So trolling equals having an opposing view? There are tons, tons of researchers who believe that obesity is a physiological problem.

Look at the article I posted. In the long term, most behavioral approaches fail. Sure there are people who succeed, but it is still the minority. We need better solutions.

I assumed you were trolling as you posted a viewpoint too objectionable and removed from common sense that I assumed you couldn't possibly believe it and were fishing for a reaction.

Assuming you are not trolling, I will say this - You are missing the link in the middle which is nutrition and exercise.

It may be psychological, but it is a psychological issue that causes people to eat more and exercise less. However you dress it up, it still comes down to sorting out the nutrition and exercise. Whether you need to work through issues to get to that stage or not.

The basis always has to come back to what goes in and what goes out.

The point is the body in and of itself is influencing people to fail at maintaining weight loss. Leptin deficiency for example causes people to be chronically hungry after losing weight. There is scientific data to support this. There is also scientific data supporting the idea that leptin replacement can actually suppress this chronic hunger. How can a naturally thin person who gets satiated after eating their meals possibly understand what its like to be chronically hungry no matter how much you eat.

Its just like an addiction to drugs. The person's mind isn't addicted to drugs, their body is. Their body causes them to exhibit irrational behavior because it wants to be fed the addiction.

But the one thing we can agree on is that nutrition does matter. The problem I have with most dieters is they think junk food isn't causing them to fail, its their mind. They think calories are the key to weight loss, when that is only true in the short term. The key to weight loss isn't managing calories, it is managing hunger. To fix hunger you have to eat foods that don't cause your hormones to go crazy.

vim_n_vigor

I don't think fat people would be on this site trying to lose weight if they were in denial.

Untrue - we are here to lose the weight, but that doesn't mean we have accepted why we are here. There is no denying what I see in the mirror, on the scale or in my clothes. I can deny very easily the actions that got me here. Until I acknowledge the truth and accept that I have to change my habits, not that I am fat because my husband is an awesome cook or because co-workers bring in cookies and donuts or my metabolism is slowing with age, or whatever other excuse I come up with, I will not fix my problems. Same with a lot of other people here.

LorinaLynn

I've never been obese, and just barely dipped into overweight at my heaviest.

But many of my friends, in "real life" and on here, have been. And the way they lost a lot of weight has been the same as the way I lost a smaller amount of weight. The exact details might be a little different, but it's still the same basic formula. Eat the right amount of food - not too much, not too little - and be more active.

Krissy366

I don't think you have to be in denial to not like the word fat. I know I'm fat, that's why I'm here, because I've finally decided to make a change. I knew I was fat before I was here. The thing is, that word, it's used as a verbal assault, it's hurled at people with the specific intent to cause emotional damage (not saying here on the forums, I'm talking about in the world, in life). There probably isn't a single overweight/obese person that at some point in their life hasn't been subjected to someone's cruelty due to their weight. No one likes to be reminded of how cruel the world can be, and their response to words that are steeped in prejudice, hate, and malice (as I believe fat is usually intended) is, of course, going to be highly reactionary. It's not just about the word, it's about the context in which the person has heard the word. Hear it enough in this negative context, and no matter how it is used it becomes an insult rather than an observation.

chrishgt4

I guess all the ongoing obesity research is a waste of time since it all boils down to gluttonous behavior and excuses right? Why bother researching when a simple physics equation is the answer to a complex biochemical process?

Simple. Money. If they can figure out that "silver bullet" that allows people to lose weight without putting in effort. It will be worth billions of dollars.

I don't buy it. Its really simple that most people on this thread have narrow-minded unscientific views of the world around them. There is plenty of scientific evidence supporting the idea that our body's response to the environment we live in (ie. full of easily accessible toxic processed foods) is the cause of obesity, not the psychological behaviors of each individual.

Not everybody is in it for the money. We really do need to find a solution that works. There is no compelling evidence whatsoever that either calorie restriction or exercise are effective treatments for obesity.

"There is no compelling evidence whatsoever that either calorie restriction or exercise are effective treatments for obesity."

This comment convinces me that you are, as I suspected, trolling...

That is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard.

Open question on here - how many people have had success, whether it be fat loss or muscle gain that wasn't attributed to eating properly and exercising regularly?

I think anyone with any level of success knows it is all about those things...

I don't think he's trolling and I don't think it's that ridiculous.

There isn't actually a clear connection between exercise and weight loss. Although that sounds counter-intuitive, it may actually be true.

And, I'm not sure what grinch meant by "calorie restriction" - but there are differing opinions on how and why people gain and lose weight.

True, this site is about monitoring calories. And, it's true that it works for a lot of people. But, that's not scientific data... merely anecdata.

I think you have missed the point slightly - science hasn't pinned down every possible reason for people gaining weight. It doesn't mean it hasn't worked out the mechanics of how the body uses fat and energy and how to use this for weight loss.

Also - one anecdote is chance, hundreds of thousands consistently pointing in the same direction shouldn't be overlooked just because you want to believe random new theories.

You know the cigarette companies have put millions into research but not come up with conclusive proof that it damages health...

Studies funded by tobacco companies are an entirely different animal than studies done by medical researchers for academic purposes.

One of the problems with anecdata is that you can't tell exactly what you're dealing with. Yes, there are hundreds of thousands of examples of people who ate less, moved more, and lost weight. (Some of them even keep it off for a long time.) But, when we hear anecdotes to the contrary, we just dismiss them as "denial."

That's why anecdotes aren't data.

I don't know what your agenda is, but I think luckily most people have reason and logic skills that mean they won't pay attention to the things you say.

Just for the record - do you actually believe, knowing how the body works ie food is fuel and moving etc uses that fuel, that the answer to losing weight doesn't fundamentally come down to diet and exercise?

Whether the reason comes down to a psychological tendency or a genetic tendency to over/under eat or a genetic tendency towards fat storage, the fix is always to eat properly and exercise appropriately.

kklittle

IMy whole family is large as well. Obesity doesn't run in my family, poor eating habits do!

Love this!

_Bob_

Overweight people seem to be constantly in denial and bringing up health and metabolism issues that are, whilst unfortunate in those they affect, rarely the true reason that is eating too much. The word 'fat' on here almost seems to be a massive insult

I hear what you're saying. I'm fat and I know it, it only offends me when people call me fat in a mean way. I know that I'm a fatty and that's why I'm here.

my problem wasn't just over eating, it's under eating and a poor diet. when I started tracking my calories without changing my diet I found that most days I under eat, or don't eat enough because I am too busy. and then some days I over eat. in my average week I would eat 1000 calories 3 or 4 of the days and then close to 5000 calories the other days. I wasn't getting a proper balanced diet. Using this site has helped me to realize the dangers in under eating as well as over eating or just eating crap.

just to add, I come from a family that is over weight, it's all because of poor diet. the poor diet has caused my metabolism to get slower and it has caused lower levels of testosterone. I blame no one but my self for my poor eating habits.

StartingAnewDay

i don't know about metabolism bieng the culprit but it becomes a factor with unhealthy eating. the thing that pissed me off is why does everyone ASSume because your overweight, you sat around eating all freaking day.. Like EVERY overweight person eats 2 packages of bacon, 32 eggs, 50 pancakes and drinks a tub of syrup for breakfast and its on from there...

Let me ask you this.. What happens to a person who is sedentary.. eats ONE meal a day at most, when they do eat, its something like a Whopper meal.. or perhaps, instead of actual food, they may eat 4 candy bars.. or cake for breakfast lunch and dinner as oppsed to actual food???... Hell, I once ate 12 ounces of gourmet pretzels one day because I skipped lunch and they were available. then I only had dinner... then I discovered, 12 oz of those pretzels was 1600 cals. alone.. Thats less food than most of you "so called" fit people eat. The problem is the QUALITY of whats going in overall.. THEN exercise comes into play.. because if I ate 4 candybars, drank a couple cokes and 1 whopper meal, even if I exercised, I would most likely NOT lose much weight..

My issue is not the use of the word fat, my issue is with the RAMPANT judgmentalism, and this idea that you know WHY everyone in the world is fat. Another thing, just because a person is skinny, does NOT make them fit.. or healthy.. or better than anyone for that matter....

Fat is not the problem..... thinking you know jack **** about someone elses life and circumstances is the problem....

Besides all this.. why do any of you care WHY the next man is in the shape they are? How about paying attention to the shape YOUR in and spend more time worrying about that, then you have less time to be annoyed with the rest of the world and what they do and say...

chrishgt4

I guess all the ongoing obesity research is a waste of time since it all boils down to gluttonous behavior and excuses right? Why bother researching when a simple physics equation is the answer to a complex biochemical process?

Simple. Money. If they can figure out that "silver bullet" that allows people to lose weight without putting in effort. It will be worth billions of dollars.

I don't buy it. Its really simple that most people on this thread have narrow-minded unscientific views of the world around them. There is plenty of scientific evidence supporting the idea that our body's response to the environment we live in (ie. full of easily accessible toxic processed foods) is the cause of obesity, not the psychological behaviors of each individual.

Not everybody is in it for the money. We really do need to find a solution that works. There is no compelling evidence whatsoever that either calorie restriction or exercise are effective treatments for obesity.

"There is no compelling evidence whatsoever that either calorie restriction or exercise are effective treatments for obesity."

This comment convinces me that you are, as I suspected, trolling...

That is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard.

Open question on here - how many people have had success, whether it be fat loss or muscle gain that wasn't attributed to eating properly and exercising regularly?

I think anyone with any level of success knows it is all about those things...

So trolling equals having an opposing view? There are tons, tons of researchers who believe that obesity is a physiological problem.

Look at the article I posted. In the long term, most behavioral approaches fail. Sure there are people who succeed, but it is still the minority. We need better solutions.

I assumed you were trolling as you posted a viewpoint too objectionable and removed from common sense that I assumed you couldn't possibly believe it and were fishing for a reaction.

Assuming you are not trolling, I will say this - You are missing the link in the middle which is nutrition and exercise.

It may be psychological, but it is a psychological issue that causes people to eat more and exercise less. However you dress it up, it still comes down to sorting out the nutrition and exercise. Whether you need to work through issues to get to that stage or not.

The basis always has to come back to what goes in and what goes out.

The point is the body in and of itself is influencing people to fail at maintaining weight loss. Leptin deficiency for example causes people to be chronically hungry after losing weight. There is scientific data to support this. There is also scientific data supporting the idea that leptin replacement can actually suppress this chronic hunger. How can a naturally thin person who gets satiated after eating their meals possibly understand what its like to be chronically hungry no matter how much you eat.

Its just like an addiction to drugs. The person's mind isn't addicted to drugs, their body is. Their body causes them to exhibit irrational behavior because it wants to be fed the addiction.

But the one thing we can agree on is that nutrition does matter. The problem I have with most dieters is they think junk food isn't causing them to fail, its their mind. They think calories are the key to weight loss, when that is only true in the short term. The key to weight loss isn't managing calories, it is managing hunger. To fix hunger you have to eat foods that don't cause your hormones to go crazy.

I think then perhaps we agree fundamentally, just we are talking about slightly different things.

To me there are many many causes for people over eating, whether it be sadness, peer pressure, addiction caused by a Leptin deficiency as you mention. Each of these have to be addressed in their own way but ultimately, the goal is to have the individual eating properly.

ashleighbrooke22

You don't actually lose "fat cells" per se when you lose weight/fat. You always have approximately the same number of fat cells regardless of how skinny or chubby you may be. When losing weight, you are actually just losing the amount of adipose material in those fat cells and they "shrink".

>>>on the other hand...I wish I could only eat 1000 calories a day. I might actually lose my last few pounds of pre-prego weight!!! :]

jaxbeck

I throw the genetic theory out the window whenever anyone tries it with me, I come from an obese family, for instance my mother is close to 450 pounds. 90% of my aunts, uncles & cousins are morbidly obese and continue to eat fast food & junk food. I am not obese, I am overweight at the moment, 188 at 6"1' but I am working to change it. You can have challenges staying healthy because of your genes but you can't tell m it's impossible. Just my straight up honest opinion.

grinch031

I guess all the ongoing obesity research is a waste of time since it all boils down to gluttonous behavior and excuses right? Why bother researching when a simple physics equation is the answer to a complex biochemical process?

Simple. Money. If they can figure out that "silver bullet" that allows people to lose weight without putting in effort. It will be worth billions of dollars.

I don't buy it. Its really simple that most people on this thread have narrow-minded unscientific views of the world around them. There is plenty of scientific evidence supporting the idea that our body's response to the environment we live in (ie. full of easily accessible toxic processed foods) is the cause of obesity, not the psychological behaviors of each individual.

Not everybody is in it for the money. We really do need to find a solution that works. There is no compelling evidence whatsoever that either calorie restriction or exercise are effective treatments for obesity.

"There is no compelling evidence whatsoever that either calorie restriction or exercise are effective treatments for obesity."

This comment convinces me that you are, as I suspected, trolling...

That is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard.

Open question on here - how many people have had success, whether it be fat loss or muscle gain that wasn't attributed to eating properly and exercising regularly?

I think anyone with any level of success knows it is all about those things...

I don't think he's trolling and I don't think it's that ridiculous.

There isn't actually a clear connection between exercise and weight loss. Although that sounds counter-intuitive, it may actually be true.

And, I'm not sure what grinch meant by "calorie restriction" - but there are differing opinions on how and why people gain and lose weight.

True, this site is about monitoring calories. And, it's true that it works for a lot of people. But, that's not scientific data... merely anecdata.

I think you have missed the point slightly - science hasn't pinned down every possible reason for people gaining weight. It doesn't mean it hasn't worked out the mechanics of how the body uses fat and energy and how to use this for weight loss.

Also - one anecdote is chance, hundreds of thousands consistently pointing in the same direction shouldn't be overlooked just because you want to believe random new theories.

You know the cigarette companies have put millions into research but not come up with conclusive proof that it damages health...

Studies funded by tobacco companies are an entirely different animal than studies done by medical researchers for academic purposes.

One of the problems with anecdata is that you can't tell exactly what you're dealing with. Yes, there are hundreds of thousands of examples of people who ate less, moved more, and lost weight. (Some of them even keep it off for a long time.) But, when we hear anecdotes to the contrary, we just dismiss them as "denial."

That's why anecdotes aren't data.

I don't know what your agenda is, but I think luckily most people have reason and logic skills that mean they won't pay attention to the things you say.

Just for the record - do you actually believe, knowing how the body works ie food is fuel and moving etc uses that fuel, that the answer to losing weight doesn't fundamentally come down to diet and exercise?

Whether the reason comes down to a psychological tendency or a genetic tendency to over/under eat or a genetic tendency towards fat storage, the fix is always to eat properly and exercise appropriately.

Diet is critical, exercise is helpful. The problem I have is people are told to 'eat in moderation', but what that requires is a great deal of willpower that is easily defeated by the demands of the body. I think if society as a whole decided that junk food should be eaten sparingly and that whole foods were more convenient, everybody's health what dramatically improve. But of course that isn't going to happen, and so I think the best solution is for science to come up with more practical solutions.

mfpcopine

I've never thought that weight loss was easy, and the more I know, I don't know that it's that simple either. I don't necessarily think that it's only a matter of any calories in/any calories out and any exercise.

But given the monitoring devices and information available to the average person today, counting calories and exercise is still the most accessible method.

In 2100, maybe you'll be able to blow into a pipe and be given the perfect eating and fitness plan for your specific physiology.

Not today.

katysmelly

I've never been obese, and just barely dipped into overweight at my heaviest.

But many of my friends, in "real life" and on here, have been. And the way they lost a lot of weight has been the same as the way I lost a smaller amount of weight. The exact details might be a little different, but it's still the same basic formula. Eat the right amount of food - not too much, not too little - and be more active.

But, some of them had to work harder at it than others. Some may have had to work much, much harder for every pound lost than you did. Some may have not had to work at all.

I'll give myself as an example:

Somehow I lost over 30 lbs over maybe 12 months without doing anything deliberate. I put on a whole lot of weight in my third pregnancy. Lost a bunch immediately after delivery, of course, and then the rest sort of hung around for a while... then it slowly went away. And, it has stayed off, with the exception of about 6 pounds I put on when I quit smoking last month.

Yes, it was down to how many calories I was taking in vs putting out. But, my point is, I didn't have to work at it at all. It just happened all on its own. It had nothing to do with my attitude towards food or exercise.

Acg67

http://beastmodaldomains.com/2011/11/09/fat-acceptance-is-unacceptable/