My Teenage Daughter

im a child development major now, and (no offence) 'punishment' makes me sick. children repete behavior because it is working for them. they get the reaction they want etc. when something isnt working there is either a 1. lack of fit (needs to go to a different school) 2. unmet needs (need therapist, homework help, set schedual) or 3. lack of skill (pushing child to do something that is developmentaly unapropriate)

That's interesting...so the concept is, if they act out...send them to another school, send them to counselling, or assume they are incapable?

Yes, I over simplified, but...I'm sorry, I disagree completely.

It's amazing all of the incredibly resourceful, intelligent, caring, supportive, STRONG, and admirable people (I'm talking about my late 50yr old parents and back) that were raised in a household where if you screwed up, you paid consequences for it. And it's even more amazing that in todays world of enablement, counselling (yes, I believe in counselling...when my ex left last April and moved 800 miles away from her children then filed for custody...and lost, the first thing I did was signed myself, my daughter, and my two sons up for family counselling), medications, child development specialists, and 'give to get' parenting...how many kids disrespect their elders, their teachers (or try to murder them...seriously), don't care, and all around feel that they 'deserve' some special treatment just because they are who they are.

When will people realize that life in general and our society in specific doesn't accomodate those kinds of people, and all that will be gained if we DO manage to force our society to accomodate those kinds of people, is the ruination of the specific ideals that made our country great to begin with.

No offense.

This. We allow kids to run around doing whatever the *kitten* they want, because after all, they're very special and we don't want to hurt their feelings. Punishment is key. They misbehave, they get their PRIVILEGES taken away. Kids have this entitlement which is total bullsh*t. Start preparing your children for life after school, the workplace and "real world" is not going to coddle them and tell them that they're special.

First off, you should have her evaluated for ADD or ADHD. If you find out it's not that, I would take away her cell phone like you are going to do, and possibly have a parent/teacher conference with her teachers to go over her problems. Also taking away the internet is a good thing. You could also sit down with her once a week and go over her syllabuses and map out when she is going to do each assignment.

So a kid doesn't do well in school and automatically it's add/adhd? lol
Oh America.

REALLY?

First off, you should have her evaluated for ADD or ADHD. If you find out it's not that, I would take away her cell phone like you are going to do, and possibly have a parent/teacher conference with her teachers to go over her problems. Also taking away the internet is a good thing. You could also sit down with her once a week and go over her syllabuses and map out when she is going to do each assignment.

So a kid doesn't do well in school and automatically it's add/adhd? lol
Oh America.

Agreed. My 14 year old step son's grades are completely due to laziness. His mother doesn't take away his video games or punish/ground long enough to make any effect on him. (He lives with his mother)

Yes, there are kids who habitually misbehave, but we are talking about a kid who is essentially a good teenager, who has been through a lot, and has come out the other end still essentially good, but currently creating one specific challenge. Why the immediate and insistent use of punishment? What's wrong with trying first to establish whether there is a genuine problem, or an issue that can be fixed? If I have a problem at work, or in my day-to-day life, I try to sort it out and find a solution - I don't arbitrarily 'punish' the person or thing who/which is causing it. That's a good life skill to have - problem solving - and a good thing to be modelling to any teenager. Punishment should be a last resort, once it has been established that this behaviour is something that actually needs to be punished ie. is not the result of something fixable, rather than the first port of call.

Lets see...I'm a great person. I drive responsibly day in and day out. I'm driving down the freeway and get something in my eye, I try to carefully get over to exit the freeway to remove it, but end up causing an accident. Do you TRULY believe the officer responding is going to give a DAMN why I caused the accident? Do you think the judge is going to throw out my ticket because I had something in my eye? How about my insurance company? And since we both know none of those things will happen...and that I will be 'punished' for my totally unavoidable 'issue' and the consequences of it, do you truly believe that modeling that kind of unrealistic belief system to a teenager is appropriate? Life is hard. You love your children, you support them with positivity and care...but to say punishment is only a last resort, is ridiculously short sighted, and honestly, a disservice to your child.

There's a very big difference between actions that pose a risk to others, and actions that do not. I don't believe these two situations are comparable. Perhaps we operate in differing judicial systems, but if your actions in trying to exit the freeway (as I call it a motorway, I suspect we do!) were observed by witnesses and/or the officer who gave you a ticket, and were judged to be commensurate with someone trying their best in a situation beyond their control to avoid harm to themselves and others, then you might well have a case for the ticket/dangerous driving charge to be dropped.

No, life is not always fair, and we are not always able to control everything around us, and sometimes that leads to things happening that punish us for something that is outside our control. However, this should be the exception, not the norm. That's essentially the point of our justice system, particularly the "innocent until proven guilty" premise. In my view, and that of my parents in raising me, the best way to raise a respectful, productive adult is to raise a child with respect as well, and that means allowing them the opportunity to explain their actions, and investigating to see if an action that is disliked is the result of a problem can be fixed, before jumping to an authoritarian 'punishment' mode. What advantage is gained, for example, by punishing the child with an unrecognised hearing difficulty for ignoring verbal instructions? Better, in my view, to ask why the instruction was ignored, and if there is a pattern, to investigate the reason for it. Particularly in dealing with a young adult, which is after all, who we're discussing here, surely it's better to apply some logic, ideally together, and develop some problem-solving abilities, if the cause can be resolved?

I'm very open with my daughter, we have great communication. When she has issues with friends, or at school...or even with her teachers, she comes to me and we talk about them. Love and support, along with great communication is MANDATORY!! However so is modeling the real world. She is rarely, EVER punished. But that's not because I don't believe in it...it's because through experience she understands there are consequences to her actions, and that avoiding those consequences is really the preferable path to take.

Just like you and I, in the real world.

Yes. You have opened up the lines of communication so that your daughter can come to you with problems before they become an issue that might deserve punishment. The girl in question has not had that opportunity with her step-mother. I'm not saying that genuinely bad behaviour should not have consequences. What I am suggesting is that it would be more constructive to find out whether this 'bad behaviour' is the product of something than can be, or needs to be, fixed, rather than jumping straight in to a punishment mind-set. Punishing the behaviour, if it is the product of something that requires attention, will not resolve the issue in the long run, and may well obstruct the communication lines one tries to establish, if the teen/child can reason through to the cause themselves, and feels they have been treated unfairly.

Yes, there are kids who habitually misbehave, but we are talking about a kid who is essentially a good teenager, who has been through a lot, and has come out the other end still essentially good, but currently creating one specific challenge. Why the immediate and insistent use of punishment? What's wrong with trying first to establish whether there is a genuine problem, or an issue that can be fixed? If I have a problem at work, or in my day-to-day life, I try to sort it out and find a solution - I don't arbitrarily 'punish' the person or thing who/which is causing it. That's a good life skill to have - problem solving - and a good thing to be modelling to any teenager. Punishment should be a last resort, once it has been established that this behaviour is something that actually needs to be punished ie. is not the result of something fixable, rather than the first port of call.

Lets see...I'm a great person. I drive responsibly day in and day out. I'm driving down the freeway and get something in my eye, I try to carefully get over to exit the freeway to remove it, but end up causing an accident. Do you TRULY believe the officer responding is going to give a DAMN why I caused the accident? Do you think the judge is going to throw out my ticket because I had something in my eye? How about my insurance company? And since we both know none of those things will happen...and that I will be 'punished' for my totally unavoidable 'issue' and the consequences of it, do you truly believe that modeling that kind of unrealistic belief system to a teenager is appropriate? Life is hard. You love your children, you support them with positivity and care...but to say punishment is only a last resort, is ridiculously short sighted, and honestly, a disservice to your child.

There's a very big difference between actions that pose a risk to others, and actions that do not. I don't believe these two situations are comparable. Perhaps we operate in differing judicial systems, but if your actions in trying to exit the freeway (as I call it a motorway, I suspect we do!) were observed by witnesses and/or the officer who gave you a ticket, and were judged to be commensurate with someone trying their best in a situation beyond their control to avoid harm to themselves and others, then you might well have a case for the ticket/dangerous driving charge to be dropped.

No, life is not always fair, and we are not always able to control everything around us, and sometimes that leads to things happening that punish us for something that is outside our control. However, this should be the exception, not the norm. That's essentially the point of our justice system, particularly the "innocent until proven guilty" premise. In my view, and that of my parents in raising me, the best way to raise a respectful, productive adult is to raise a child with respect as well, and that means allowing them the opportunity to explain their actions, and investigating to see if an action that is disliked is the result of a problem can be fixed, before jumping to an authoritarian 'punishment' mode. What advantage is gained, for example, by punishing the child with an unrecognised hearing difficulty for ignoring verbal instructions? Better, in my view, to ask why the instruction was ignored, and if there is a pattern, to investigate the reason for it. Particularly in dealing with a young adult, which is after all, who we're discussing here, surely it's better to apply some logic, ideally together, and develop some problem-solving abilities, if the cause can be resolved?

I'm very open with my daughter, we have great communication. When she has issues with friends, or at school...or even with her teachers, she comes to me and we talk about them. Love and support, along with great communication is MANDATORY!! However so is modeling the real world. She is rarely, EVER punished. But that's not because I don't believe in it...it's because through experience she understands there are consequences to her actions, and that avoiding those consequences is really the preferable path to take.

Just like you and I, in the real world.

Yes. You have opened up the lines of communication so that your daughter can come to you with problems before they become an issue that might deserve punishment. The girl in question has not had that opportunity with her step-mother. I'm not saying that genuinely bad behaviour should not have consequences. What I am suggesting is that it would be more constructive to find out whether this 'bad behaviour' is the product of something than can be, or needs to be, fixed, rather than jumping straight in to a punishment mind-set. Punishing the behaviour, if it is the product of something that requires attention, will not resolve the issue in the long run, and may well obstruct the communication lines one tries to establish, if the teen/child can reason through to the cause themselves, and feels they have been treated unjustly.

When it comer to her academics she is lazy and unorganized. She is always turning things in late, her teachers tell us she talks in class alot, she needs to be told to refocus regularly and some of it has to do with the group of girls she sits with. I contacted a teacher today about her slipping grades and he informed me that she is passing notes and texting in class regularly. Now I did tell the teacher i do not understand why the hell they have not taken her phone, but that being said her Dad and I are probably going to take her phone for a while. That being said her phone is one of her only sources of punishment we have. She is newer to the school so she doesn't have a ton of friends and a super active social life. We have ha to take her phone before and i feel like its starting lose its effect. What other forms of punishment (or even ways to encourage or motivate her to do better) Do you use with your teenagers? I need some creative idea

I am in the same situation as you. My 14 almost 15 year old step daughter has lived with us since she was 7 though. We fought to take her away from her mother for all of the same reasons you listed. Overall she is a good kid but does the same texting, note passing, not tuning in paperwork etc. I took her phone completely away. She is only allowed to use it to call me or her father. I also took the tv away from her. Her homework must be completed before she is allowed to step outside. At one point I was doing the whole folder check and planner check every night to make sure she was doing it and getting it turned in. We have iParent up her and it allows me to see when she turns something in late or scores poorly on a test. I also do not let her do anything during the school week. Only on the weekend.

I also try to use motivating items. She wants to get her ears pierced again and I told her if she brings home all A's and B's she can this summer. She also wanted to go to a dance. The agreement was she had to get at least a B on her next Japanese test. She failed and didnt get to go with her friends. The only real suggestion i can think of is set goals and rewards as well as punishments and stick to them no matter how much she begs. Good luck

I read the first page or two and disagreed with a ton of stuff, so I'm just going to put in my two cents: have her tested for ADD/ADHD, regardless of what all the know-it-all naysayers might whine about. I was a straight-A student most of my life. Not because I put in effort or did the work, but because I was smart. I didn't have to pay attention because I'd ace the tests. I could write a paper in a few hours and it would be the highest grade in the class even though other people tried harder. It all fell apart when I went to law school (I'm finishing my second year now). Suddenly, it was all about the time you put in, studying consistently, and figuring things out one step at a time. I started failing for the first time in my life because I didn't have the ability to do what was necessary and had never had to learn. I finally went to a doctor who diagnosed me with ADHD and saved me. I felt normal, like I suddenly knew what it was like for everyone else. It actually pulled me out of lifelong depression and anxiety.

So no, it's not an excuse; it's real and it matters. Get her checked, there's no harm in that.

I agree with this, in part. What I disagree with mostly is the part regarding the enforcement of the law. You mentioned 'if' a whole lot there as a means to get out of that circumstance, and that 'if' isn't going to do a damn thing for your insurance rates. There are other, less dangerous (to others) circumstances as well that would cause issue with the law, but if you can't see the correlation between the one I listed and this, you won't see the correlation with any others.

As for the parts I agree with...of course you have to make the girl understand that IF the grades don't come up, there will be punishment. I was assuming they were past that because the woman was asking for further forms of punishment to lever the girl into doing what was needed. The discussion part of this is clearly past. YES she may have other issues, but the punishments need to stand...and the opening (or widening) of lines of communication and support need to be concentrated on as well. I'm not saying beat the poor girl, I'm saying create consequences for her behavior, and stick to them like glue. When the behavior improves, you can not only give her the reward, you can further positively reinforce the behavior with other priveleges that she may not have had to begin with. Dinner out for her favorite food with her Dad, trips to a salon with her step mom...whatever. Positive reinforcement IS critical, for the new behaviors to be learned willingly, but negative consequences are absolutely mandatory as well.

The other thing I agree with is discussing the reasons, this is CRITICAL...but the fact is that negative actions have negative consequences (regardless of the reasons for those actions), and not modeling that to your child is hurting them far more than it is helping them. You instill the sense of right and wrong in your children at an early age...with the understanding that there will be consequences for the wrong. I understand that this girl hasn't had that due to her mothers issues...but it's never too late to begin...as a loving parent, to make a child understand these things. Part of that involves enforcing those consequences. Words clearly haven't helped this girl (I'm 150% positive the OP and her husband have talked to the girl about her school work and grades), and so further action is necessary.

To be honest, I don't think we're as far off in our beliefs as our arguments may indicate. Reason and consideration are absolutely necessary when raising a child, but just as necessary are punishments (or more accurately put, enforcement of consequences).