women doing the "work" while men stand around?

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  • Dragonwolf
    Dragonwolf Posts: 5,600 Member
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    On the other hand I kind of enjoy doing the heavy lifting because I'm a petite person and it really throws people off! :laugh:
    Me too, messing with people's ignorant preconceptions about what ridiculously short woman can and can't do isn't much of a hobby but it makes me happy. :bigsmile:

    EDITED TO ADD: My favourite is when a man says "Oh, let me take that for you" and then staggers or drops it because it hadn't occurred to him that it might be heavy. Last time was at a builders merchants with a bag of gravel, fortunately it didn't split when he dropped it. What did he think it was, special women's gravel made of feathers and fluff?
    It makes you happy to see someone injured when they try to help you? Why?

    I don't think it's about getting hurt (yes, it would suck if the bag had landed on his foot), but rather that his peacocking is coming back to bite him and he realizes that yes, it is heavy, and yes, she can pick it up and carry it more easily than he can.
  • 2April
    2April Posts: 285 Member
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    On the other hand I kind of enjoy doing the heavy lifting because I'm a petite person and it really throws people off! :laugh:
    Me too, messing with people's ignorant preconceptions about what ridiculously short woman can and can't do isn't much of a hobby but it makes me happy. :bigsmile:

    EDITED TO ADD: My favourite is when a man says "Oh, let me take that for you" and then staggers or drops it because it hadn't occurred to him that it might be heavy. Last time was at a builders merchants with a bag of gravel, fortunately it didn't split when he dropped it. What did he think it was, special women's gravel made of feathers and fluff?
    It makes you happy to see someone injured when they try to help you? Why?

    I don't think it's about getting hurt (yes, it would suck if the bag had landed on his foot), but rather that his peacocking is coming back to bite him and he realizes that yes, it is heavy, and yes, she can pick it up and carry it more easily than he can.
    I didn't just mean hurt in the physical sense - just simply something occurring to the man's detriment. I guess when someone tries to help me I do not see it as peacocking just because it is a man, I see it as nice (even better if they call me Ma'am).

    Nonetheless, I prefer peacocking to men who are total drips. Men are stronger - this is usually one of the things that makes them attractive to women.
  • Dragonwolf
    Dragonwolf Posts: 5,600 Member
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    On the other hand I kind of enjoy doing the heavy lifting because I'm a petite person and it really throws people off! :laugh:
    Me too, messing with people's ignorant preconceptions about what ridiculously short woman can and can't do isn't much of a hobby but it makes me happy. :bigsmile:

    EDITED TO ADD: My favourite is when a man says "Oh, let me take that for you" and then staggers or drops it because it hadn't occurred to him that it might be heavy. Last time was at a builders merchants with a bag of gravel, fortunately it didn't split when he dropped it. What did he think it was, special women's gravel made of feathers and fluff?
    It makes you happy to see someone injured when they try to help you? Why?

    I don't think it's about getting hurt (yes, it would suck if the bag had landed on his foot), but rather that his peacocking is coming back to bite him and he realizes that yes, it is heavy, and yes, she can pick it up and carry it more easily than he can.
    I didn't just mean hurt in the physical sense - just simply something occurring to the man's detriment. I guess when someone tries to help me I do not see it as peacocking just because it is a man, I see it as nice (even better if they call me Ma'am).

    Nonetheless, I prefer peacocking to men who are total drips. Men are stronger - this is usually one of the things that makes them attractive to women.

    There's a difference between peacocking and trying to be polite. It's one thing to ask "would you like some help with that?" (which, assuming neutral tone, conveys acknowledgement that the person might be, or appears to be, struggling and may appreciate some assistance). It's another to say "let me get that for you" (which can more likely convey that the person being addressed is not capable of doing the task). Additionally, it's generally peacocking when they try to toss something around as if it's not heavy, only to find out the hard way that yes, it is, in fact, heavy, and does require effort on their part (thus deflating the "look how strong I am!" ruse). It's not always bad for someone to get knocked down a peg or two (in my opinion, at least).
  • wolfehound22
    wolfehound22 Posts: 887
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    I usually do most of the heavy lifting in my house, main reason is I'm 5'-10 230 lbs, and my wife is 5' 140, so generally its easier for me to do that lifting. I also like helping my wife out, and if something is difficult, I like helping her out. I don't like to watch my wife struggle or strain with something. I don't have any motive, other than the comfort of my wife. By all means if she insists on doing something I'm not going to stop her, but I just naturally do this. I also hold open doors for her, but I also hold open doors for everyone, its more of a curtosy thing. Seems like most of you take this as a negative thing, which seems weird. If I hold a door open for a woman, or try and help her with something heavy, I am doing it to help and be nice, not to put her down because she is a woman. It seems like so many peopls views are messed up, and instantly go to the negative side of things. Maybe if we could qite thinking so negatively of someones good jestures we would be hapier.
  • WhittRak
    WhittRak Posts: 572 Member
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    So you were struggling and your husband decided it best not to help? Last time I checked it was respectful to offer assistance to a woman, especially if she is physically struggling. And yes, it is common courtesy to hold the door open for NOT ONLY WOMEN, but men. I am sorry you don't like to be respected.


    That's not at all what I said and I think you may have read my post wrong or maybe I wasn't clear. He originally wanted to have the cart and everything, but I said I would do it. As I said in the post he always opens doors for me and carries things and is very gentlemanly. It just so happened that I didn't get to work out that day so I was using our shopping trip as a chance to get in a little more exercise

    The post was more to see what other people thought if they were to witness a situation like that or if other people had experienced dirty looks and shaking heads if they had tried to do something similar because others assumed that the male was being rude when he really wasn't

    Then yes, I read it wrong. You will get those looks wherever ya go.
  • mrmanmeat
    mrmanmeat Posts: 1,968 Member
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    The other day my husband and I were at home depot getting some supplies for the house/garden. I insisted on pushing the flatbed cart carrying all our lumber and soil around the store and then loading/unloading it into our truck....just to get a little bit of extra exercise in. Similarly at work, I tend to carry the large buckets of seawater from room to room instead of putting them on a cart. I realize this isn't much, but I figure every little bit helps. Additionally I'm stubborn and also well aware that I am able to do these things, so I don't see a need to have someone else do them for me.

    The problem is that we definitely live in an area where women are treated as such: I've been called ma'am for at least 5 years now and I've never opened my own car door when my husband is around, let alone a door to a store when any male is present. So when I'm pushing around this heavy cart and obviously struggling and my husband is leisurely strolling ahead of me, we tend to get some dirty looks. My boss even scolded a male coworker for having me do all the heavy lifting one day, even though I insisted on it. These people giving us these looks or shaking their heads at us obviously don't know whats going on and just think my husband is being a jerk.

    Curious if anyone else does this type of thing or experienced it? Or alternatively, if you saw one of the situations described above would you think the guy was being inconsiderate, or would you think something else (the woman didn't want someone doing things for her or she was trying to exercise)

    Um, ma'am is just a sign of respect. I can't see how that's bad.

    I know some people don't like it because it makes them feel old. "Ma'am is my mother." (Similarly, I know a lot of guys that don't like being called "sir" for the same reason - "Sir is my father.")

    Well..... Get over it, :) it doesn't mean you're old. Like I said, it's a sign of respect. What are we supposed to say "yes lady"??

    Exactly.

    In most cases I've experienced, simply dropping off the "sir" or "ma'am" is sufficient, because the interactions are more or less between equals. "Have a nice day," vs "have a nice day, sir." I tend to get a little disconcerted when someone calls me "ma'am," but for me, it's mainly because not everyone around here says it. I get over it because I'm generally the "call me what you want" type of person.

    That's one of the things I like about languages like Japanese. You have those politeness words (titles?), but you have them for just about every position -- not just a "sir"/"ma'am" equivalent (which generally have a connotation as the "sir" or "ma'am" being in a position of superiority, such as an age difference), but also for addressing an equal.

    What about "Yes ma'am" vs "yes"
  • Dragonwolf
    Dragonwolf Posts: 5,600 Member
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    What about "Yes ma'am" vs "yes"

    That's why I said "most cases." For that particular one, I'm not sure, and it depends more on the circumstances. My experience has been that "yes ma'am" is most often used in one of two ways - a sarcastic tone when someone is responding to orders given by another of equal level, and in a more formal situation, where the woman has rank over the other person (ie - the military). Around here, it's pretty much unheard of to actually use it respectfully by civilians in an informal situation. The same goes for "sir," for the most part. We generally use other words of affirmation ("okay", "alright", "will do", etc).

    "Miss" will be used sometimes, when the speaker feels the subject is too young for "ma'am" ("you forgot your purse, miss", etc), but still wants to use a formality, or possibly even to flatter a woman who is considered old enough for "ma'am" but may appreciate being addressed like a younger woman.
  • foodfight247
    foodfight247 Posts: 767 Member
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    In my experience it's a whole different ball game over here in the UK....people can be so ignorant or rude. There's a small minority here who are courteous. Especially if you are friends, acquaintances etc....or they're feeling that way out.

    I think it's nice when men open doors, carry things when you struggle, etc...
  • TourThePast
    TourThePast Posts: 1,753 Member
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    On the other hand I kind of enjoy doing the heavy lifting because I'm a petite person and it really throws people off! :laugh:
    Me too, messing with people's ignorant preconceptions about what ridiculously short woman can and can't do isn't much of a hobby but it makes me happy. :bigsmile:

    EDITED TO ADD: My favourite is when a man says "Oh, let me take that for you" and then staggers or drops it because it hadn't occurred to him that it might be heavy. Last time was at a builders merchants with a bag of gravel, fortunately it didn't split when he dropped it. What did he think it was, special women's gravel made of feathers and fluff?
    It makes you happy to see someone injured when they try to help you? Why?

    I don't think it's about getting hurt (yes, it would suck if the bag had landed on his foot), but rather that his peacocking is coming back to bite him and he realizes that yes, it is heavy, and yes, she can pick it up and carry it more easily than he can.
    You're right, obviously I would not deliberately hurt someone, and I didn't say anything about the gravel falling onto his foot, which it did not.

    Why does this make me happy? Payback for being patronised.

    If I was obviously struggling and someone offered help, I'd be grateful.

    However, if a man (or woman) is stupid enough to patronise me, I certainly won't be crying myself to sleep at night if I hurt their feelings!
  • 2April
    2April Posts: 285 Member
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    On the other hand I kind of enjoy doing the heavy lifting because I'm a petite person and it really throws people off! :laugh:
    Me too, messing with people's ignorant preconceptions about what ridiculously short woman can and can't do isn't much of a hobby but it makes me happy. :bigsmile:

    EDITED TO ADD: My favourite is when a man says "Oh, let me take that for you" and then staggers or drops it because it hadn't occurred to him that it might be heavy. Last time was at a builders merchants with a bag of gravel, fortunately it didn't split when he dropped it. What did he think it was, special women's gravel made of feathers and fluff?
    It makes you happy to see someone injured when they try to help you? Why?

    I don't think it's about getting hurt (yes, it would suck if the bag had landed on his foot), but rather that his peacocking is coming back to bite him and he realizes that yes, it is heavy, and yes, she can pick it up and carry it more easily than he can.
    You're right, obviously I would not deliberately hurt someone, and I didn't say anything about the gravel falling onto his foot, which it did not.

    Why does this make me happy? Payback for being patronised.

    If I was obviously struggling and someone offered help, I'd be grateful.

    However, if a man (or woman) is stupid enough to patronise me, I certainly won't be crying myself to sleep at night if I hurt their feelings!
    I think after reading this most people would be afraid to help you, even if you were struggling.
    I hope people don't stop being helpful for fear of offending someone.
  • couponfun
    couponfun Posts: 714 Member
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    You know, the whole ma'am/sir thing got me thinking back to my dad...

    My dad was a Drill Sergeant for a while in the Air Force, and the first day his newbies replied "Yes Sir!", to which he replied the usual, "SIR? DO I LOOK LIKE AN OFFICER TO YOU? I WORK FOR A LIVING! YOU'LL ADDRESS ME AS DRILL SERGEANT!" To which they then replied "YES DRILL SERGEANT"

    Sorry, it's a tangent....but there are some guys that don't like sir, either :laugh:
  • charityateet
    charityateet Posts: 576 Member
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    My husband doesn't open doors, walk on the outside of the street and sometimes lets me struggle carying things while he goes empty handed. No he's not an assh-le - he just knows that if he asks to help I'll probably refuse. I'm pretty stubborn and independent.
  • TheRoadDog
    TheRoadDog Posts: 11,788 Member
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    This thread kind of took a slight turn. When did being polite become chauvinistic.? I was raised by a man that treated everyone with respect and women with deference. Ma'am and Sir were a part of his vocabulary. Opening a door for another person was common place. If a woman enterred a room, he stood. If a woman needed a seat, he offered his.

    That is how he was raised; that is how I was raised. I'm very proud that I am like my father. I treat my wife, daughters and women in my life in the same manner, and I hope they come to expect it from the men that will come along in their life. In fact, I hope they insist on it.

    If I am considered a chauvinist, then that is what I am. I am going to open your door for you. I am going to address you as Sir or Ma'am. If you have a problem with it, it's on you, not me.
  • thetrishwarp
    thetrishwarp Posts: 838 Member
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    I don't really care about gender in this whole situation. If I'm nearest to the door, I'll hold it for whoever is coming in after me, and I'd expect the same, whether that individual is a man or woman. In that vein, if I'm holding something heavy and am obviously struggling, I would not care whether a man or woman came and helped me, so long as they're not just standing there laughing at my struggle. There are cases where I won't even attempt to lift something because I know I can't - my brother and father helped me move my mattress, for example. Although usually if it's my stuff I don't want to burden others with how heavy it is!

    I suppose I just see those types of things as general politeness or courtesy, so I feel it should be universal, rather than just the way men act towards women. I wouldn't look at someone strangely if they were with a male who didn't do the heavy lifting. Maybe it's because I'm Canadian. :laugh:

    Edit: Also, having worked mostly in the service industry, I had to use "ma'am" and "sir" all the time, usually to get people's attention, for example: "Sir, your order is ready!" because I wouldn't have known their name to just say "Hey, Joe, your pizza is done."
  • DianatheRed
    DianatheRed Posts: 41
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    I think there is a balance for every couple. I am fairly "independent" in that if I want something done, I will just do it. I don't wait around for my husband or expect him to take care of it. On the other hand, if I start doing something, most times my husband will come and work beside me. He also doesn't hesitate to ask me to help him if there is a two person job (unless a male is close by to help). He doesn't feel the need to defend me-ever! It used to bother me, but now I realize that its more because he knows that I can handle myself :) There have been a couple of times that I started loading/unloading heavy things and he stopped me because it made HIM feel bad, and out of respect for him, I stopped and let him finish!
  • TourThePast
    TourThePast Posts: 1,753 Member
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    On the other hand I kind of enjoy doing the heavy lifting because I'm a petite person and it really throws people off! :laugh:
    Me too, messing with people's ignorant preconceptions about what ridiculously short woman can and can't do isn't much of a hobby but it makes me happy. :bigsmile:

    EDITED TO ADD: My favourite is when a man says "Oh, let me take that for you" and then staggers or drops it because it hadn't occurred to him that it might be heavy. Last time was at a builders merchants with a bag of gravel, fortunately it didn't split when he dropped it. What did he think it was, special women's gravel made of feathers and fluff?
    It makes you happy to see someone injured when they try to help you? Why?

    I don't think it's about getting hurt (yes, it would suck if the bag had landed on his foot), but rather that his peacocking is coming back to bite him and he realizes that yes, it is heavy, and yes, she can pick it up and carry it more easily than he can.
    You're right, obviously I would not deliberately hurt someone, and I didn't say anything about the gravel falling onto his foot, which it did not.

    Why does this make me happy? Payback for being patronised.

    If I was obviously struggling and someone offered help, I'd be grateful.

    However, if a man (or woman) is stupid enough to patronise me, I certainly won't be crying myself to sleep at night if I hurt their feelings!
    I think after reading this most people would be afraid to help you, even if you were struggling.
    I hope people don't stop being helpful for fear of offending someone.
    Offering help to someone who appears to need it, whether they are a man or a woman, is a laudable thing to do and I'm very much in favour of it. I've stopped to help clueless people, irrespective of gender, when they've had a flat tyre and I've gladly accepted help one time when there was a stubborn wheel nut that I couldn't shift.

    If someone says to me "Do you need a hand with that" I'm perfectly happy to either accept help or politely say "It's okay I'm fine, but thanks"

    What really annoys me is when men assume that because I'm short I must be helpless and grab things off me saying "Here let me take that" - which is offensive and and patronising and VERY different from offering help to a person who may or may not need or want help.

    To the men on here who say they "respect women" and who feel that the are demonstrating that respect by doing everything for them, I challenge them to take a step back and question whether that really is a sign of respect in the 21st century.
  • seasons01
    seasons01 Posts: 14
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    When my hand gets better I will be back to doing the lawn... well maybe... he's changed in the last few years... I love doing the lawn but he now expects me to do literally everything... I clean up after him all the time. It's really sad because it puts a lot of ill feelings in the house. Especially when I love doing outside work. I'm trying to remove the clutter from my house so I can get it to a point where cleaning is no big deal so I can still enjoy myself outside.

    In MN women and men open doors for each other. Even kids here will hold the doors open for you... a nice thank you and off you go. I try to wave at cars when they let me in there lane... all that.

    A lot has changed with my hand not working though. The lawn has not been mowed yet... the lawn mower is broken but he has not given any thought to paying anyone. We are going to get called on because our lawn is soooo long.
  • seasons01
    seasons01 Posts: 14
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    And I like a neat lawn by the way... my dh doesn't like any lawn work at all.
  • christine24t
    christine24t Posts: 6,063 Member
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    There's a difference between peacocking and trying to be polite. It's one thing to ask "would you like some help with that?" (which, assuming neutral tone, conveys acknowledgement that the person might be, or appears to be, struggling and may appreciate some assistance). It's another to say "let me get that for you" (which can more likely convey that the person being addressed is not capable of doing the task). Additionally, it's generally peacocking when they try to toss something around as if it's not heavy, only to find out the hard way that yes, it is, in fact, heavy, and does require effort on their part (thus deflating the "look how strong I am!" ruse). It's not always bad for someone to get knocked down a peg or two (in my opinion, at least).

    I don't know in what world someone would get upset if someone else says "let me get that for you." If the person can help, there is nothing wrong with it.

    I understand everyone wants to be independent, but there is nothing wrong with letting someone help you out.
  • TourThePast
    TourThePast Posts: 1,753 Member
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    I don't know in what world someone would get upset if someone else says "let me get that for you." If the person can help, there is nothing wrong with it.

    I'll tell you what world. In a world where, entering a traditionally male profession nearly 30 years ago, it was often necessary for me to stand my ground to be taken seriously as an engineer, and not end up just taking minutes in meetings and making the tea - which is what happened to the only other female civil engineer in my year.

    Think about this, when these men get old they're going to find young people assuming they're helpless - and I'm sure that at that point they'll finally understand why some perfectly capable women hate the assumption that they're incapable of managing on their own, and are actually proud of being able to stand on their own two feet.

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