Let the bloodbath begin....

does anyone else feel like this is going in circles?

There's something you and I totally agree on. These threads always go in circles, but they get hard to ignore because they stay at the top of the list for hours/days on end.

It's a shame, because there really are a ton of threads on MFP that have helped me and I'm sure have helped others, but then I get sucked into a thread like this a want to never come back to the forums again.

I think the reason some of these threads go in circles is because many people only half read the arguments from the other side. They're convinced they're right, so it doesn't matter to them whether or not their opponent has a valid point or not. Not to mention, the snarky, condescending remarks that only fuel the fire. It makes me SOOOO angry when I have to repeat myself because the person(s) with whom I'm debating aren't listening to a word I'm saying.

I'm here because it's hilarious, I'm an anthropologist who can't tear herself away from this melee,

It's ingroup-outgroup behaviour at its very basic.

The problem isn't people giving opinions... it's people giving unsolicited opinions that is annoying....

Wow. There was me thinking it's an open forum for the purpose of information exchange (which naturally involves a degree of "opinion" although some people like to think their opinion is fact) and an invitation wasn't required?

Again, when a person is asking HOW to do something, that is not the place to debate, insert opinions outside of the actual query, and/or bash the person for wanting to do it.... it's rude and disrespectful... If you (in general) want to debate on whether someone SHOULD do it... then either find the bajillion threads that have already been made to beat that dead horse, or create a new one.... If someone wants opinions on whether they should do it, they will ask. Being an open forum does not mean that people have the right to be disrespectful and rude.

I think the reason some of these threads go in circles is because many people only half read the arguments from the other side. They're convinced they're right, so it doesn't matter to them whether or not their opponent has a valid point or not. Not to mention, the snarky, condescending remarks that only fuel the fire. It makes me SOOOO angry when I have to repeat myself because the person(s) with whom I'm debating aren't listening to a word I'm saying.

So you think that by repeating the information you're somehow contributing to people magically changing their minds?

Other people have repeated themselves and yet you haven't changed your position?

Why do you think your stand point is any more valid than that of the people you're frustrated with for not coming round to your way of thinking?

I read these threads purely for entertainment.

From the Harvard School of Public Health
SOURCE: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/staying-active/

...
Getting any amount of exercise is better than none. The more you get, though, the better. But don't feel locked into running or walking. A lot of activities count as exercise: dancing, skating, gardening, cycling, scrubbing floors, washing the car by hand, playing with kids. Anything that gets you moving, really.
...

There is a clear and widely accepted definition of low intensity workout - one that raises your heart rate to 60% - 65% of maximu.
If you go down the gym and chat and read a magazine and your heart rate doesn't reach that level then no - don't count it
If you reach or exceed that level then it counts as exercise

So I can log "looking at my phone bill" as exercise?

There is a big difference between chores today and 50 year ago

Today
I walk 5 steps to turn up the thermostat
I brush my permanent epoxy varnished wooden floor
I grab the plank and run it through my Italian industrial saw
(lol today I use a hand mower or a scythe) - but most people have power mowers
I use a chain saw to cut down a tree


When I was a kid
I put a coat on, waked to the back shed, took an axe and chopped up pieces of coal, lit a fire inside and shivered for an hour before it was warm
I got on my hands and knees and hand waxed and buffed my wooden floor
I took a hand saw to cut a plank
I cut the grass with a hand mower
I chopped trees down with an axe

AGAIN, for the umpteenth time: I DON'T (nor do, I think, most of the people defending chore logging) log:

I walk 5 steps to turn up the thermostat
I brush my permanent epoxy varnished wooden floor
I grab the plank and run it through my Italian industrial saw
(lol today I use a hand mower or a scythe) - but most people have power mowers
I use a chain saw to cut down a tree

I DO log:

Once per week, top to bottom, strenuous housecleaning such as, scrubbing floors, scrubbing tub/shower, vacuuming including under the furniture (which requires some heavy lifting) and scrubbing the base boards, climbing ladders to clean the ceiling fans, scrubbing windows (which also requires climbing a step ladder), etc...

Once per week mowing my lawn with a NONself-propelled push mower, and other strenuous gardening chores that I don't do every day.

There is a clear and widely accepted definition of low intensity workout - one that raises your heart rate to 60% - 65% of maximu.
If you go down the gym and chat and read a magazine and your heart rate doesn't reach that level then no - don't count it
If you reach or exceed that level then it counts as exercise

So I can log "looking at my phone bill" as exercise?

And watching George Clooney films!

I think it depends on what your BMR is and what your eating normally because just for me to sit on my butt and do nothing I need close to 1500 calories.... So I am only eating 1500 calories a day so honestly yesterday when I cleaned my bathroom on my hands and knees for 45 minutes that's almost 200 calories that 150 less than one of my daily workouts so in my case I am counting it all....They say to count every calorie no matter how significant it is that goes in your mouth...So if you are sedetary or eating a bare minimum of calories (some peoples case its 1200) why can't you.?

To me each is their own you have people that run marathons then maybe house cleaning is insigificant to them but DON'T down those that might only be able to clean as an exercise at least that person is actively trying.

I understand people will say that we shouldnt feel a little bothered because our diary and stuff is public. I just think it's sad...this site is to SUPPORT each other....What good does it do anyone to ridicule what they deem active it's not hurting them and it's not like they are counting the calories they burn by eating....I just think some people just don't know when to keep their mouth shut.

Basically bottom line if it's working for you awesome and congrats and keep doing what your doing...I know it works for me to date I have lost a total of almost 100lbs since my first son was born (60lbs after my oldest and then many years later I have lost 40lbs after my second)

In my opinion that goes for chores too - If I wash the dishes my heart rate isn't going up!

Mine is - out of pure aggravation that the husband left milk in the bottom of a glass *again*! :sad: :laugh:

Buahaha!!! Yes! Or the treasure hunt I must do to FIND the dishes... all the extra steps I must take, all the lifting, pulling and pushing.... hmmm... I think I should monitor that and see how many calories I burn....

it's just that as far as I can tell, everything from the last 3-4 pages was already discussed, both in this thread and in the other (now locked/defunct) thread.

so....why are we all doing this still?

I'm here because it's hilarious, I'm an anthropologist who can't tear herself away from this melee, and because I do feel some need to make sure people don't REALLY crap on me (too much).

why is everyone else still here??

It's the "someone is wrong on the internet" thing. We can't help ourselves. I haven't read the whole thread by the way, i just liked your "going round in circles comment". I wonder how many people change their opinions as a result of these debates? I know there are a number of things I have modified my mindset on, maybe because I've learned a bit more.

ETA: re. changing opinions - not this thread imparticular

I really don't log chores and stuff because I would rather come in low then high on my intake. Just personal preference. If you are looking to gain/ maintain perhaps logging daily activities out side of working out makes sense. I just like the buffer, it gives me a wider margin of error should I miscalculate the amount of food I'm eating or overestimate the calories burned in a work out. I'm not trying to "cheat" the system by earning more calories then I should because in the long run it only me that hurts from it. :frown:

I rarely eat back more than half of my exercise calories anyway, so that is not my motivation for logging activity. I just use it as a way to keep myself moving. I go by how many activities I have done (and how much time I have spent doing them), not how many calories I have burned doing said activities. I know from the get go that MFP overestimates calorie burns, and I don't have a HR monitor. Therefore, I know it would only hinder my progress to take the calorie burn MFP gives me into consideration. I don't mind people disagreeing with me about logging chores as exercise. It's the snarky, condescending remarks about it that get to me. As does continually having to repeat myself because some *kitten* didn't really take my perfectly valid point into consideration before making said snarky, condescending remark.

Let's take the emotion of being a homebody vs. a career vs. younger vs. older out of this whole discussion.

Let's get scientific for a moment. The tab clearly says exercise and is broken down into cardio & strength training.

Exercise is defined as planned, structured, and progressive process by which a significant exertion is applied to stimulate a specific desired and positive bodily change.

Given that, I don't see how work around the house can be considered exercise. Walking the dog can qualify if there is significant exertion applied, obviously based upon your physical conditioning.

Work around the house can burn a great deal more calories and bring up your heart rate a lot higher than walking the dog. One poster mentioned their HRM showed an 1100 calorie burn for mowing her lawn. Another poster said 700 calories for giving the house a scrub down. So the physical exertion is there. I don't do a scrub down of my house daily, but when I do I sweat much more than I do from a half hour on the elliptical. Exercise has a very broad definition and does not have to be just want you do in the gym. Chores are included in the MFP database as well as other sites like Fitday. BTW Fitday also includes sex for exercise and you can log it based on length and intensity. Personally, I think MFP should follow suit.

The average person's definition of exercise is vague. But I don't see where mowing the lawn or scrubbing a house is progressive. I'm sure there are people that will argue that it's structured and planned.

If you sweat more doing house work than on an elliptical, then my observation would be that the intensity should be picked up on the elliptical.

so since going to the gym and exercising has become part of my daily routine for the past 5 months does that mean i should no longer consider that as physical activity?

There is a clear and widely accepted definition of low intensity workout - one that raises your heart rate to 60% - 65% of maximu.

If you go down the gym and chat and read a magazine and your heart rate doesn't reach that level then no - don't count it

If you reach or exceed that level then it counts as exercise

In my opinion that goes for chores too - If I wash the dishes my heart rate isn't going up! If I'm digging a pool in the garden then it is going up!

this is how i see it as well. washing dishes is a no, but (on the admittedly rare occassions) where i get possessed my grandmother and get on my hands and knees and scrub the floor with a scrub brush, that most definitely counts as work :laugh: