400 Net Calories for the Day: Scary Behavior

Well there is absolutely nooooooo wayyyy I could net my goal on exercise days... I can't eat thaaaaat much...Today for instance my net was 359...my goal is 1290...I have trouble getting there most days. Before I started this program, I didn't even realize how little I was eating.

Not to pick on you, but this is the segment of the population I worry about. I know a 30 yr old woman who, ever since college, grossed about 900 calories daily and then burned about 500 through exercise. She recently tested her metabolism and hormone function - her insulin and glucagon levels were lopsided to the degree that inhibited fat metabolism during exercise. In addition, the hunger hormones, ghrelin and leptin were compromised as well so she was unable to feel the need to eat. She tried multiple times to eat up to her maintenance calories but, because of the metabolic damage she caused herself, she'd gain weight and return to severely restricting her caloric intake again. So, for her, calorie restriction wasn't just something she utilized to lose weight temporarily, she became paranoid and still to this day eats like that and has not reached her goal weight.

Question, What if the person is like me, and we do our work out at the end of the day, I'm talking 7-8pm, the food cut off for me is no later than 7pm. What to do?

Eat more before your workout to fuel it, so you work harder. Preferably protein.

Also, there's no reason you *can't* have a protein shake after your workout. I consistently ate dinner at 10 or 11 p.m. while I was losing weight (night classes for grad school) and it didn't impacted me negatively.

This. Metabolism doesn't change enough overnight that you need to worry about not eating before bed.

Then don't look at my diary cause you'd faint dead away.

I was on a VLCD (about 360) for a while in 2010 (and don't you dare think that I'm saying it was a good idea.) In a few months I went from 310 to 240. Literally in maybe three months. Of course, I felt dizzy, but I was completely functioning. I didn't regain weight immediately or anything like that; the only time I regained after was after I got pregnant again and had postpartum thyroid issues. So, I was that thin for like a year, and fine. My OB (I went on a normal diet bc I got pregnant) actually told me she was glad bc I was thin enough to make pregnancy safer than if I was up at 310.
What I'm trying to say is, it can be really tempting to just do something to lose weight because you just feel so sick and desperate. If it wasn't for the fact that I'm nursing a 6 mo so my health is physically able to impact another person, I might be tempted to do something drastic for weight loss. There's a clinic in my state that does vlcd where people often lose over 100 in 3 months. If I could afford it, you bet my butt would be there. Being as overweight as I am, and having gained it so fast (all of my extra weight was gained in the 6 mos after I had baby #2 because I couldn't get my thyroid medication) it is hard to do anything. Can you imagine what its like to be over 300 lb and on top of that dealing with healing from a c section, tired from thyroid problems, and all that. It would be easier just to not eat for a couple months and then have a messed up metabolism, but be around a normal weight, and then use the tips from the "Eat more weigh less" group to reset metabolism. Yeah, you might gain 20 lbs in that month but its easier to live with a body that needs to lose 20 lbs than one that needs to lose 170. I have no stamina at all, and I'm not innocent but I saw a nutritionist and they saw no issue with my diet as it was and no reason for me to be so heavy. Without my thyroid meds, I gain weight consistently and have to sleep up to 16 hrs per day.
I'm just trying to say that it can be hard to accept losing slowly when you know if you just eat less you will lose faster. On top of that, if you are used to eating crappy, calorie dense food and switch to healthier, much less dense food you might actually have a hard time eating enough. If you think "Oh, I can do a green salad instead of Mcdonalds!" and the like you could eat a lot by volume but not by calorie.
I know you don't want to slow metabolism or get sick I'm just trying to give insight into reasons why people might undereat.

Odds are, if someone's eating at a really alarming calorie deficit they're already in the throes of an eating disorder and nothing you say will help them, or it will be a little experiment tried for a week or two before the realisation sets in that eating so little and exercising to extremes is not a very nice use of anyone's time. Of course, it could just be that there are a number of petite women on here who do best at 1200 calories a day regardless of their exercise. Maybe their 1200 calories are so full of fibre and protein that they don't care to eat anymore than is comfortable. Maybe they're saving their calories for a few glasses of wine and a nice meal on the weekend. Please don't worry about the little ladies and their health. You've got to be really, really dedicated to your eating disorder to suffer long term problems. But if it makes you feel better, I've lost hair because of issues with iron. I was eating far more than 1200 calories a day.

Tbh, I see a lot of men here trying to... well, rescue the poor, misguided women. Some of them are openly hostile to a way of eating that doesn't involve chugging multiple protein shakes and eating a few dozen chickens worth of meat in a single day. You just have to look at some of the ridiculous threads "ZOMG CARDIO MAKES U FATTTTTTTTTT LIFT OR DIE B*TCHES" to see that there are some really misguided nutjobs who think that their silly habits are better than other people's silly habits. Why don't all the rescuers sit down, discuss just how little they agree on, and set about rescuing each other?

Odds are, if someone's eating at a really alarming calorie deficit they're already in the throes of an eating disorder and nothing you say will help them, or it will be a little experiment tried for a week or two before the realisation sets in that eating so little and exercising to extremes is not a very nice use of anyone's time. Of course, it could just be that there are a number of petite women on here who do best at 1200 calories a day regardless of their exercise. Maybe their 1200 calories are so full of fibre and protein that they don't care to eat anymore than is comfortable. Maybe they're saving their calories for a few glasses of wine and a nice meal on the weekend. Please don't worry about the little ladies and their health. You've got to be really, really dedicated to your eating disorder to suffer long term problems. But if it makes you feel better, I've lost hair because of issues with iron. I was eating far more than 1200 calories a day.

Tbh, I see a lot of men here trying to... well, rescue the poor, misguided women. Some of them are openly hostile to a way of eating that doesn't involve chugging multiple protein shakes and eating a few dozen chickens worth of meat in a single day. You just have to look at some of the ridiculous threads "ZOMG CARDIO MAKES U FATTTTTTTTTT LIFT OR DIE B*TCHES" to see that there are some really misguided nutjobs who think that their silly habits are better than other people's silly habits. Why don't all the rescuers sit down, discuss just how little they agree on, and set about rescuing each other?

Well that's not me--I am not into protein shakes. I do strength train but as an equal complement to cardio. I believe both are wise.

Again, another logical fallacy:

Person 1. This is alarming behavior.
Person 2. Shut up and concentrate on yourself, and by the way, you're just another protein-shake lunkhead.

So in addition to you saying to ignore the problem, you offer an additional fallacy of an ad hominem guilt-by-association attack.

Next...

Oh, has someone been gotten himself a first year logic textbook from Ebay? Congrats, great purchase! AAAAAA+ would deal with buyer again!!!111!!!

Here's an idea: you can't fix anyone who isn't you and unless 1200cal a day dieters are all over the forums pushing their silly ideas, you've no reason to call them out for behaviour you find offputting. Just look at the pretty pictures, and stay out of these women's diaries. When you go about white knighting down a well trodden path you start to look like the sort of guy who wishes he was better endowed, you know? Now go and rescue these poor men who lift with bad form and are set for a couple of acl tears and poorly treated muscle strain. You need to let them know that a fructose free diet saves no one from the horrors of Youtube instructional vids and a garage setup. Go, save!

I have some days where I only net around 800 calories, but there is usually a good reason why. I have an american bulldog that needs walking three times a day, plus a 7 month old baby to run around after, walk everywhere and sometimes its difficult to prepare the best foods, and end up eating soemthing heavy and stodgy which fills me up and can be made quickly. I've got better lately, preparing more food when my daughter is asleep, but its a balancing act. Some nights I don't even get to think about dinner until 9pm, then its just too late.

Odds are, if someone's eating at a really alarming calorie deficit they're already in the throes of an eating disorder and nothing you say will help them, or it will be a little experiment tried for a week or two before the realisation sets in that eating so little and exercising to extremes is not a very nice use of anyone's time. Of course, it could just be that there are a number of petite women on here who do best at 1200 calories a day regardless of their exercise. Maybe their 1200 calories are so full of fibre and protein that they don't care to eat anymore than is comfortable. Maybe they're saving their calories for a few glasses of wine and a nice meal on the weekend. Please don't worry about the little ladies and their health. You've got to be really, really dedicated to your eating disorder to suffer long term problems. But if it makes you feel better, I've lost hair because of issues with iron. I was eating far more than 1200 calories a day.

Tbh, I see a lot of men here trying to... well, rescue the poor, misguided women. Some of them are openly hostile to a way of eating that doesn't involve chugging multiple protein shakes and eating a few dozen chickens worth of meat in a single day. You just have to look at some of the ridiculous threads "ZOMG CARDIO MAKES U FATTTTTTTTTT LIFT OR DIE B*TCHES" to see that there are some really misguided nutjobs who think that their silly habits are better than other people's silly habits. Why don't all the rescuers sit down, discuss just how little they agree on, and set about rescuing each other?

Well that's not me--I am not into protein shakes. I do strength train but as an equal complement to cardio. I believe both are wise.

Again, another logical fallacy:

Person 1. This is alarming behavior.
Person 2. Shut up and concentrate on yourself, and by the way, you're just another protein-shake lunkhead.

So in addition to you saying to ignore the problem, you offer an additional fallacy of an ad hominem guilt-by-association attack.

Next...

Oh, has someone been gotten himself a first year logic textbook from Ebay? Congrats, great purchase! AAAAAA+ would deal with buyer again!!!111!!!

Here's an idea: you can't fix anyone who isn't you and unless 1200cal a day dieters are all over the forums pushing their silly ideas, you've no reason to call them out for behaviour you find offputting. Just look at the pretty pictures, and stay out of these women's diaries. When you go about white knighting down a well trodden path you start to look like the sort of guy who wishes he was better endowed, you know? Now go and rescue these poor men who lift with bad form and are set for a couple of acl tears and poorly treated muscle strain. You need to let them know that a fructose free diet saves no one from the horrors of Youtube instructional vids and a garage setup. Go, save!

At the risk of disappointing you, unfortunately Ebay was out of logic textbooks when I was studying in law school and I had to learn the old-fashioned way.

One thing I learned is that when dealing with someone who displays a high-school level of discourse by engaging in personal character attacks--against forum rules by the way--the temptation is to stoop to their sophomoric level and return the insults, thus fueling the Jerry Springer direction that the high-school speaker wishes to direct the argument-- jokes about ****s, about all men being the same, and so forth. I fear you'd just continue with insults instead of arguments, and so devolve the conversation to the intellectual level of fart jokes.

I would ask you to address the original point--what is it about eating 1,000 calories a day and netting 400 that is healthy?--but as you seem incapable of doing that, I will simply ask for you to grow up.

What was it that made you think I view low calorie diets as being healthy or even sustainable? Was it when I labelled the practice silly? For a lawyer you're not very good at picking out details beyond butthurt drama. Law isn't my field but a fair few of my friends did law while I skulking around the labs and my goodness... they'd not have made it far with your brilliant mind.

Seriously, the 1200 calorie a day thing is done at least once a week. It's always sad little men objecting to the diaries of random dieters, invariably women, and wanting to rescue them from what is apparently a few calories shy of a Malian peasant's daily rations. Never do I see the white knighters trying to rescue heavy lifters with poor form. For me, a lower back injury (or worse) is a darn site more serious than a few days of grumpiness because Slimfast really is the worst diet in the world.

That said, I'm going to go now and make sure I net 1200 calories via steak tartare and possibly sautéed chicken livers. I don't have any pre-weight gain pics in my profile though, so you needn't worry about saving me from parasites and purines. Best to you!

Bottom line is MFP is supposed to be a place everyone can come to get support & track their weight-loss.

There are days when I will only eat 500 cals for the day. It's something that happens from time to time. Plus PLEASE remember that sometimes medical problems prevent a person from eating from time to time. I have MS & when I am having a "Flare" of some sort I can eat little to nothing for days or weeks. MS fatigue can keep me on bed asleep for days or weeks. I force myself to drink something.

I think if it's daily maybe instead of "Bashing" these people "Educate" them. Don't support the "Un"healthy eating habits but teach new ones. Express concern..... Sometimes it just might be they need that.

I love this site & have met some very nice, supportive, kind people.

It's always sad little men objecting to the diaries of random dieters, invariably women

What's your thing about little men? You need to get out of your lab a bit. Overreact much? Even if the OP has a bit of a hero complex, he's completely right that you stepped in here simply to make some poor ad hominem arguments, and to save the people you told the OP not to save. Ease up on your bad self. Take some deep breaths, and, when you're ready, come back and join the discussion.

I have the same worries. People on my Flist only get a certain number of strikes where I will show concern and advise them on how to increase their calorie intake and then I just dump them... I like to support people but essentially I am here for me and I can't deal with people purposefully undereating, over exercising and then ignoring my concerns.
Life is too short.

They are your concerns and if they aren't my concerns then you don't matter much in the scheme of MY DIET. Jesus it's not your life or your diet so why creep on people who do what they have to do for them.

In my view, I think you should STFU. If you don't like how your MFP friends eat and exercise, don't friend them. PERIOD. It is really not up to you to be the "I know whats better for you then you do" advocate.

That being said, I personally don't agree with ppl eating less then 900 calories regularly (intake not net) and choose not to friend ppl who do. It is very, very rare for a healthy adult to actually starve or become malnurished by eating over 1000 calories with good nutrition. Also, some ppl may actually want to slow their metabolism, right now their are several studies about low calorie diets to do that exact thing! What are they finding? Ppl living longer and healthier....hmmm kind of contradicts the msg your putting out there? I'm sure MD's and scientists that run these studies know just a little bit more then you. I have yet to see a "net calorie and malnutrition" study.

Really....this... again... Yes, we know it happens, yes we know it's wrong, is there anything you can do about it? Nope. Concentrate on yourself.

yup

This is why I closed my diary. I got sick of people commenting with dumb stuff - why do you care what other people are eating? Who says they logged everything properly or had a bad binge the night before and were trying to "make up" for it? Or maybe they don't understand the whole net cals and automatic deficit thing yet. It's fine to have friends for inspiration/motivation but if their behavior bothers you stop looking at it!