Diet Soda
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No - I am saying that opinions, by definition, cannot be backed up by anything at all.
Opinions are essentially unarguable because they are never based in fact. If they were, they would be "facts" and not "opinions".
If someone tells me it is their "opinion" that the sky is purple how can I argue with that? I can certainly say "Go outside, you knucklehead, and take a look. The sky is blue". What if, after being proven wrong, the person still insists the sky is purple? What then? Nothing.
I find this useful in those situations: http://theconversation.com/no-youre-not-entitled-to-your-opinion-9978
Oh I like this. Thanks!0 -
I think it still comes down to opinion though - two people can weigh up the same evidence and come to a completely different conclusion. In "my" opinion there is insufficient evidence to say that artificial sweetners are "safe". By "safe" I mean have no untoward effects on the body in any person. I would also say that in my opinion that artifical sweetners are not toxic in the great majority of people. I reserve the right to change my opinion as more research is carried out.0
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No - I am saying that opinions, by definition, cannot be backed up by anything at all.
Opinions are essentially unarguable because they are never based in fact. If they were, they would be "facts" and not "opinions".
If someone tells me it is their "opinion" that the sky is purple how can I argue with that? I can certainly say "Go outside, you knucklehead, and take a look. The sky is blue". What if, after being proven wrong, the person still insists the sky is purple? What then? Nothing.
I find this useful in those situations: http://theconversation.com/no-youre-not-entitled-to-your-opinion-9978
Oh I like this. Thanks!
I keep it bookmarked. Seems a need for it comes up in these forums more often than not ...
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__drmerc__ wrote: »SnuggleSmacks wrote: »biscuitwelsh wrote: »
This is indeed one of the studies I was referring to.
Cherry picking your studies?
Me? I didn't post the study. I'm just saying it's one of those I read about the effects of artificial sweeteners on gut bacteria. If there are more which show no effect specifically on gut bacteria, I'm unaware of it and would love to see it.
As I stated before, the jury is still out for me on this issue.
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HaggisWhisperer wrote: »I think it still comes down to opinion though - two people can weigh up the same evidence and come to a completely different conclusion. In "my" opinion there is insufficient evidence to say that artificial sweetners are "safe". By "safe" I mean have no untoward effects on the body in any person. I would also say that in my opinion that artifical sweetners are not toxic in the great majority of people. I reserve the right to change my opinion as more research is carried out.
If the bolded part is true, it implies there are insufficient data to form a proper scientific conclusion.
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^^^That looks like science to me. To say that diet soda can not cause weight gain you would have to believe that 0 calories are the only factor to consider when drinking it. I know of people on Hormone Replacement Therapy that take a zero calorie pill and gain weight. Explain how that works.biscuitwelsh wrote: »
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^^^That looks like science to me. To say that diet soda can not cause weight gain you would have to believe that 0 calories are the only factor to consider when drinking it. I know of people on Hormone Replacement Therapy that take a zero calorie pill and gain weight. Explain how that works.biscuitwelsh wrote: »
You cannot compare a medical issue to consumption of diet soda in a normal relatively healthy person. To do so is absurd. Weight loss=calories in<calories out. It's simple math really.
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I also don't consider WebMD to be "science."0
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^^^That looks like science to me. To say that diet soda can not cause weight gain you would have to believe that 0 calories are the only factor to consider when drinking it. I know of people on Hormone Replacement Therapy that take a zero calorie pill and gain weight. Explain how that works.biscuitwelsh wrote: »
The study, by its own description, did not actually have a control group. They had two difference experimental groups with different configurations, but no control. There was also no way to correlate the rise in blood sugar in the second group to the use of artificial sweeteners. Until I see direct measured evidence of a rise in blood sugar after eating artificial sweeteners, with an appropriate control to ensure the direct cause of the blood sugar rise is the consumption of the artificial sweetener, I will continue to believe the rest of the mountain of evidence that says there is nothing wrong with these things.
If you want to argue that, like alcohol, consuming artificial sweeteners somehow influences your decisions to eat other things, well maybe you have something there. However that is a different factor altogether and is related not to the sweetener itself but perhaps something it causes psychologically.0 -
HaggisWhisperer wrote: »I think it still comes down to opinion though - two people can weigh up the same evidence and come to a completely different conclusion. In "my" opinion there is insufficient evidence to say that artificial sweetners are "safe". By "safe" I mean have no untoward effects on the body in any person. I would also say that in my opinion that artifical sweetners are not toxic in the great majority of people. I reserve the right to change my opinion as more research is carried out.
If the bolded part is true, it implies there are insufficient data to form a proper scientific conclusion.
Yes, I would agree with that - take for instance new drug approvals. A pharmaceutical company might submit a new drug application with all the evidence on the safety and efficacy of their drug neatly presented. They firmly believe in their drug or they would not have gone to the expense of arranging the submission at that time. the FDA might then weigh up the presented evidence and refuse approval. Maybe completely or maybe requesting more evidence. Some things in science are irrefutable but for others the collection of data just keeps moving things forward until a definative conclusion can be made.
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__drmerc__ wrote: »SnuggleSmacks wrote: »__drmerc__ wrote: »SnuggleSmacks wrote: »biscuitwelsh wrote: »
This is indeed one of the studies I was referring to.
Cherry picking your studies?
Me? I didn't post the study. I'm just saying it's one of those I read about the effects of artificial sweeteners on gut bacteria. If there are more which show no effect specifically on gut bacteria, I'm unaware of it and would love to see it.
As I stated before, the jury is still out for me on this issue.
There are 100's of studies showing aspartame is safe and 1 poor rat study that shows it effects gut bacteria.
Focusing on the one would be cherry picking
Weird. When I do a search for studies that show specifically the effects of aspartame on gut bacteria, I'm not finding any others. Could you point me in that direction?
Also, there was a human study. It was very small.
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So it's your opinion and experience. Science would show you that reducing weight helps to reduce risk of weight related health issues. Even the ADA (American Diabetics Association) recommends diet drinks for diabetics as an alternative.emmanuel4everjackson wrote: »The thought that Diet Coke is a healthy alternative to regular Coke is absurd. SOME people may be able to lose weight & feed their diet coke addiction, but I didn't lose mine until after I kicked it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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So it's your opinion and experience. Science would show you that reducing weight helps to reduce risk of weight related health issues. Even the ADA (American Diabetics Association) recommends diet drinks for diabetics as an alternative.emmanuel4everjackson wrote: »The thought that Diet Coke is a healthy alternative to regular Coke is absurd. SOME people may be able to lose weight & feed their diet coke addiction, but I didn't lose mine until after I kicked it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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SonicDeathMonkey80 wrote: »
So it's your opinion and experience. Science would show you that reducing weight helps to reduce risk of weight related health issues. Even the ADA (American Diabetics Association) recommends diet drinks for diabetics as an alternative.emmanuel4everjackson wrote: »The thought that Diet Coke is a healthy alternative to regular Coke is absurd. SOME people may be able to lose weight & feed their diet coke addiction, but I didn't lose mine until after I kicked it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
HAHA!!
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__drmerc__ wrote: »
^^^That looks like science to me. To say that diet soda can not cause weight gain you would have to believe that 0 calories are the only factor to consider when drinking it. I know of people on Hormone Replacement Therapy that take a zero calorie pill and gain weight. Explain how that works.biscuitwelsh wrote: »
Water weight genius
Weight gain != fat gain
Steroids cause gains through water weight and weight gain = fat gain? Glad you cleared that up genius.
I am not saying that diet soda is safe or not, or that it does or does not cause weight gain. I believe ANYTHING put in the body effects how it performs its functions to support life. Saying that it has zero calories so it can not effect a persons weight in any way (either negative or positive) does not seem possible. Even the amount of water a person drinks changes body functions
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Interesting that a lot of people are using artificial sweetener and aspartame interchangeably. Aspartame is just one of many artificial sweeteners, though it seems to get bagged on the most, and I don't believe the OP specified.0
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moremuffins wrote: »Interesting that a lot of people are using artificial sweetener and aspartame interchangeably. Aspartame is just one of many artificial sweeteners, though it seems to get bagged on the most, and I don't believe the OP specified.
It doesn't exactly matter. It appears that all artificial sweeteners are "bad" because "reasons". Let's not let logic get in the way of a good battle of uninformed opinions
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Don't mess with my diet coke!! You can't prove it's unhealthy!! I'm not addicted, I can stop anytime I want!! You are ignorant if you disagree!! (sarcasm)-5
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Now you just sound ridiculous.0
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Actually I prefer diet Pepsi over diet Coke, but you'd be pressed to actually find any peer reviewed studies showing it's unhealthy in moderate dosages. And there's a difference to addiction vs palatable. I'm sure anyone can stop drinking diet drinks if they wanted, but the same can't be said for drugs like heroin, cocaine, etc. And no one said you were ignorant. Just saying that science doesn't support your point of view. Got actual evidence to counter it? Then let's hear it.emmanuel4everjackson wrote: »Don't mess with my diet coke!! You can't prove it's unhealthy!! I'm not addicted, I can stop anytime I want!! You are ignorant if you disagree!!
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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emmanuel4everjackson wrote: »Don't mess with my diet coke!! You can't prove it's unhealthy!! I'm not addicted, I can stop anytime I want!! You are ignorant if you disagree!! (sarcasm)
Well, alrighty then
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I stopped drinking the stuff a while ago mostly because I realized I was drinking a little too much caffeine during the day and was having trouble sleeping. I also realized I was spending way too much money on something that doesn't really taste all that good.
After I stopped I noticed neither a weight gain, or loss, or a change in food cravings, or anything else.
Nothing.
At all.
My wallet is fatter and my sleep is better though. Neither of those things has anything to do with the artificial sweetener.
Regardless, unless someone shows me an actual peer reviewed study that contains repeatable experimental data with proper controls that show harm with direct causal link to the sweetener, I see no reason to believe it to be harmful in any way.0 -
Wow! There are a lot of emotions around this. I probably should stay away, but just can't help myself. lol
I too have long dismissed the idea of diet soda being related to weight gain and realistically it is difficult create a fully controlled human study on the topic. However, don't dismiss mice studies, that is where all our drugs are initially tested for a reason. With that said, the jury is still out and I think that individual differences may play a much greater role, with a lot of third factors impacting the correlations found in the few human studies that have been done.
At any rate, I always believed that diet soda aided me in weight loss because I do find it a satisfying alternative to eating and I have lost 30 pounds in the past while drinking diet soda. Recently though (about 2 months ago), I gave up diet soda for other reasons and have found myself satisfied with much fewer calories; as a result, my weight has dropped at twice the rate that I've lost at in the past. My husband noticed this for me and also stopped drinking diet soda (he would go through a case/week on his own) and has lost weight without tracking calories or intending to. Again, not a scientific study, just my personal experience. But, if folks, like the OP, are wondering if stopping diet soda can help them with their weight loss, it doesn't hurt to try it and see what will happen for you.0 -
emmanuel4everjackson wrote: »Don't mess with my diet coke!! You can't prove it's unhealthy!! I'm not addicted, I can stop anytime I want!! You are ignorant if you disagree!! (sarcasm)
dafuq?0 -
emmanuel4everjackson wrote: »Using diet soda as a low-calorie cocktail mixer has the awesome effect of getting you drunk faster than sugar-sweetened beverages, according to research from Northern Kentucky University.
FYP .
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There just like anything else: there okay in moderation, a diet soda every once in a while as a treat will not do you any harm!0
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emmanuel4everjackson wrote: »Don't mess with my diet coke!! You can't prove it's unhealthy!! I'm not addicted, I can stop anytime I want!! You are ignorant if you disagree!! (sarcasm)
dafuq?
I think he lost it 0 -
emmanuel4everjackson wrote: »Don't mess with my diet coke!! You can't prove it's unhealthy!! I'm not addicted, I can stop anytime I want!! You are ignorant if you disagree!! (sarcasm)
so your "research" gets trounced, your "agree to disagree" cop out fails...
this is what you resort to?
impressive.
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