Getting discouraged. Lean bulk or cut? What should I do?
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Replies
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LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
I am not a pure newbie, and I am not sure if I have hit all my beginner gains yet
I didn't say you're a pure newbie. However your lifts are still in the beginner stages. For that reason, I recommended a beginner program.
If you're not sure if you've hit all of your beginner gains, then it would make sense to run a beginner program.LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
I am not a pure newbie, and I am not sure if I have hit all my beginner gains yet
I didn't say you're a pure newbie. However your lifts are still in the beginner stages. For that reason, I recommended a beginner program.
If you're not sure if you've hit all of your beginner gains, then it would make sense to run a beginner program.
I just feel like I've heard not great things about SL or SS. that's why I went with icf 5x5. Maybe I'll stick with it a little longer until my cut is over? And what's wrong with using a hypetrophy routine like all pros or phat? Would that be detrimental vs doing something that is more a powerlifting program?
And I think I'm a beginner still due to my low #s but at the same time I'm no longer making linear progress so that worries me I've hit my max0 -
What's the total amount of time you have been lifting?0
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ForecasterJason wrote: »What's the total amount of time you have been lifting?
Roughly 3 years0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »What's the total amount of time you have been lifting?
Roughly 3 years
Then you aren't a newbie, but based on your stats you are definitely under trained. I highly suspect it's because you don't follow the programming the way it is built.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
I am not a pure newbie, and I am not sure if I have hit all my beginner gains yet
I didn't say you're a pure newbie. However your lifts are still in the beginner stages. For that reason, I recommended a beginner program.
If you're not sure if you've hit all of your beginner gains, then it would make sense to run a beginner program.LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
I am not a pure newbie, and I am not sure if I have hit all my beginner gains yet
I didn't say you're a pure newbie. However your lifts are still in the beginner stages. For that reason, I recommended a beginner program.
If you're not sure if you've hit all of your beginner gains, then it would make sense to run a beginner program.
I just feel like I've heard not great things about SL or SS. that's why I went with icf 5x5. Maybe I'll stick with it a little longer until my cut is over? And what's wrong with using a hypetrophy routine like all pros or phat? Would that be detrimental vs doing something that is more a powerlifting program?
And I think I'm a beginner still due to my low #s but at the same time I'm no longer making linear progress so that worries me I've hit my max
I don't know man... you say you're not making linear progress, but you totally butchered the ICF program and switched the reps and sets around. How do you know if you're making linear progress or not if you're not even following the progression correctly....?
What are your other lifts looking like?0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »1. Pick a preset program, you're not ready to do your own programming. Most of them have pre built templates where you plug in your 1rm, no effort required.
2. You can do the 155 for the first few sets I assume. You probably run into issues on the latter sets because you're fatigued. Using 5x155 in the Calc gives you a 1rm of about 175. Again, you can be conservative and use 90% of that... it doesn't matter. Pick a starting point as your 1rm, and stick with a set program. The templates will take care of calculating the progression.
are there any you'd recommend? I feel like programs like 5/3/1 SL and SS are all focused too primarily on powerlifting. But on a cut, I guess I'm not really gaining mass anyway. Any you'd recommend for the last 4-6 weeks of cut, and for the beginning of a lean bulk?
I disagree with you lumping 5/3/1 in with SS & SL. I used it for my last bulk. Sure the main lifts are for strength but there's plenty of hypertrophy on the assistance work.
I'm assuming you mean wendlers 5/3/1 though, so I could be wrong
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LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
I am not a pure newbie, and I am not sure if I have hit all my beginner gains yet
I didn't say you're a pure newbie. However your lifts are still in the beginner stages. For that reason, I recommended a beginner program.
If you're not sure if you've hit all of your beginner gains, then it would make sense to run a beginner program.LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
I am not a pure newbie, and I am not sure if I have hit all my beginner gains yet
I didn't say you're a pure newbie. However your lifts are still in the beginner stages. For that reason, I recommended a beginner program.
If you're not sure if you've hit all of your beginner gains, then it would make sense to run a beginner program.
I just feel like I've heard not great things about SL or SS. that's why I went with icf 5x5. Maybe I'll stick with it a little longer until my cut is over? And what's wrong with using a hypetrophy routine like all pros or phat? Would that be detrimental vs doing something that is more a powerlifting program?
And I think I'm a beginner still due to my low #s but at the same time I'm no longer making linear progress so that worries me I've hit my max
I don't know man... you say you're not making linear progress, but you totally butchered the ICF program and switched the reps and sets around. How do you know if you're making linear progress or not if you're not even following the progression correctly....?
What are your other lifts looking like?
Butchered is definitely the right word. I'm sure the OP will make gains on ANY program as long as he actually follows it as written.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
I am not a pure newbie, and I am not sure if I have hit all my beginner gains yet
I didn't say you're a pure newbie. However your lifts are still in the beginner stages. For that reason, I recommended a beginner program.
If you're not sure if you've hit all of your beginner gains, then it would make sense to run a beginner program.LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
I am not a pure newbie, and I am not sure if I have hit all my beginner gains yet
I didn't say you're a pure newbie. However your lifts are still in the beginner stages. For that reason, I recommended a beginner program.
If you're not sure if you've hit all of your beginner gains, then it would make sense to run a beginner program.
I just feel like I've heard not great things about SL or SS. that's why I went with icf 5x5. Maybe I'll stick with it a little longer until my cut is over? And what's wrong with using a hypetrophy routine like all pros or phat? Would that be detrimental vs doing something that is more a powerlifting program?
And I think I'm a beginner still due to my low #s but at the same time I'm no longer making linear progress so that worries me I've hit my max
I don't know man... you say you're not making linear progress, but you totally butchered the ICF program and switched the reps and sets around. How do you know if you're making linear progress or not if you're not even following the progression correctly....?
What are your other lifts looking like?
Butchered is definitely the right word. I'm sure the OP will make gains on ANY program as long as he actually follows it as written.
I guess I'm just looking at two different goals right now. My short term goal (4-6 weeks) of a cut and a long term (6-8 month) bulk goal. I'm not sure why to do for each. Do I stick to the same routine? I guess I don't even know where I am anymore with my strength, and know when or how to train to the point where I have "one rep left in the tank". Am I making any sense???0 -
I guess, with my history of lifting/strength/goals, what is your opinion of the best program for me? I'm paralyzed right now with where to go0
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LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
I am not a pure newbie, and I am not sure if I have hit all my beginner gains yet
I didn't say you're a pure newbie. However your lifts are still in the beginner stages. For that reason, I recommended a beginner program.
If you're not sure if you've hit all of your beginner gains, then it would make sense to run a beginner program.LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
I am not a pure newbie, and I am not sure if I have hit all my beginner gains yet
I didn't say you're a pure newbie. However your lifts are still in the beginner stages. For that reason, I recommended a beginner program.
If you're not sure if you've hit all of your beginner gains, then it would make sense to run a beginner program.
I just feel like I've heard not great things about SL or SS. that's why I went with icf 5x5. Maybe I'll stick with it a little longer until my cut is over? And what's wrong with using a hypetrophy routine like all pros or phat? Would that be detrimental vs doing something that is more a powerlifting program?
And I think I'm a beginner still due to my low #s but at the same time I'm no longer making linear progress so that worries me I've hit my max
I don't know man... you say you're not making linear progress, but you totally butchered the ICF program and switched the reps and sets around. How do you know if you're making linear progress or not if you're not even following the progression correctly....?
What are your other lifts looking like?
Butchered is definitely the right word. I'm sure the OP will make gains on ANY program as long as he actually follows it as written.
I guess I'm just looking at two different goals right now. My short term goal (4-6 weeks) of a cut and a long term (6-8 month) bulk goal. I'm not sure why to do for each. Do I stick to the same routine? I guess I don't even know where I am anymore with my strength, and know when or how to train to the point where I have "one rep left in the tank". Am I making any sense???I guess, with my history of lifting/strength/goals, what is your opinion of the best program for me? I'm paralyzed right now with where to go
Here's what you do. You just follow one program. The one LolBroScience gave you is a great one. It combines strength and size. Go into the gym this week and find your 1RM. Then plug it into the program and just do what the program says. It doesn't matter if on your last set you could do another set, just do it the way it says. For the accessory exercises pick a weight where the last few reps are going to be tough, but not to where you fail.
You are going to make more progress putting effort into a decent program then you are trying to manipulate programs to fit what you want them to be. The guys who build these know what they are doing and have been doing it for a long time. Just follow the program as it is built.
http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/0 -
Wendlers 5/3/1 has a good mix of strength and hypertrophy in my limited opinion.
But like the other guys said, you have to get a programme, any programme and stick to it. Go back the thread, there are great people on here giving you advice. Hell, you just need to look at lolbroscience, usmcmp and mitymax's (to name a few) profile pics to see they know their stuff.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
I am not a pure newbie, and I am not sure if I have hit all my beginner gains yet
I didn't say you're a pure newbie. However your lifts are still in the beginner stages. For that reason, I recommended a beginner program.
If you're not sure if you've hit all of your beginner gains, then it would make sense to run a beginner program.LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
I am not a pure newbie, and I am not sure if I have hit all my beginner gains yet
I didn't say you're a pure newbie. However your lifts are still in the beginner stages. For that reason, I recommended a beginner program.
If you're not sure if you've hit all of your beginner gains, then it would make sense to run a beginner program.
I just feel like I've heard not great things about SL or SS. that's why I went with icf 5x5. Maybe I'll stick with it a little longer until my cut is over? And what's wrong with using a hypetrophy routine like all pros or phat? Would that be detrimental vs doing something that is more a powerlifting program?
And I think I'm a beginner still due to my low #s but at the same time I'm no longer making linear progress so that worries me I've hit my max
I don't know man... you say you're not making linear progress, but you totally butchered the ICF program and switched the reps and sets around. How do you know if you're making linear progress or not if you're not even following the progression correctly....?
What are your other lifts looking like?
Butchered is definitely the right word. I'm sure the OP will make gains on ANY program as long as he actually follows it as written.
I guess I'm just looking at two different goals right now. My short term goal (4-6 weeks) of a cut and a long term (6-8 month) bulk goal. I'm not sure why to do for each. Do I stick to the same routine? I guess I don't even know where I am anymore with my strength, and know when or how to train to the point where I have "one rep left in the tank". Am I making any sense???I guess, with my history of lifting/strength/goals, what is your opinion of the best program for me? I'm paralyzed right now with where to go
Here's what you do. You just follow one program. The one LolBroScience gave you is a great one. It combines strength and size. Go into the gym this week and find your 1RM. Then plug it into the program and just do what the program says. It doesn't matter if on your last set you could do another set, just do it the way it says. For the accessory exercises pick a weight where the last few reps are going to be tough, but not to where you fail.
You are going to make more progress putting effort into a decent program then you are trying to manipulate programs to fit what you want them to be. The guys who build these know what they are doing and have been doing it for a long time. Just follow the program as it is built.
http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Awesome. I will do this. Can I calculate my 1 rep max with a calculator online rather than testing it for real?
This is good for cutting and bulking?0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
I am not a pure newbie, and I am not sure if I have hit all my beginner gains yet
I didn't say you're a pure newbie. However your lifts are still in the beginner stages. For that reason, I recommended a beginner program.
If you're not sure if you've hit all of your beginner gains, then it would make sense to run a beginner program.LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
I am not a pure newbie, and I am not sure if I have hit all my beginner gains yet
I didn't say you're a pure newbie. However your lifts are still in the beginner stages. For that reason, I recommended a beginner program.
If you're not sure if you've hit all of your beginner gains, then it would make sense to run a beginner program.
I just feel like I've heard not great things about SL or SS. that's why I went with icf 5x5. Maybe I'll stick with it a little longer until my cut is over? And what's wrong with using a hypetrophy routine like all pros or phat? Would that be detrimental vs doing something that is more a powerlifting program?
And I think I'm a beginner still due to my low #s but at the same time I'm no longer making linear progress so that worries me I've hit my max
I don't know man... you say you're not making linear progress, but you totally butchered the ICF program and switched the reps and sets around. How do you know if you're making linear progress or not if you're not even following the progression correctly....?
What are your other lifts looking like?
Butchered is definitely the right word. I'm sure the OP will make gains on ANY program as long as he actually follows it as written.
I guess I'm just looking at two different goals right now. My short term goal (4-6 weeks) of a cut and a long term (6-8 month) bulk goal. I'm not sure why to do for each. Do I stick to the same routine? I guess I don't even know where I am anymore with my strength, and know when or how to train to the point where I have "one rep left in the tank". Am I making any sense???I guess, with my history of lifting/strength/goals, what is your opinion of the best program for me? I'm paralyzed right now with where to go
Here's what you do. You just follow one program. The one LolBroScience gave you is a great one. It combines strength and size. Go into the gym this week and find your 1RM. Then plug it into the program and just do what the program says. It doesn't matter if on your last set you could do another set, just do it the way it says. For the accessory exercises pick a weight where the last few reps are going to be tough, but not to where you fail.
You are going to make more progress putting effort into a decent program then you are trying to manipulate programs to fit what you want them to be. The guys who build these know what they are doing and have been doing it for a long time. Just follow the program as it is built.
http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Awesome. I will do this. Can I calculate my 1 rep max with a calculator online rather than testing it for real?
This is good for cutting and bulking?
It will give a rough estimate if you base if off the calc. Just pick a starting point, it doesn't matter where as you'll be progressing from that point forward.
You'd be getting stronger, so yes it's good for both.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
I am not a pure newbie, and I am not sure if I have hit all my beginner gains yet
I didn't say you're a pure newbie. However your lifts are still in the beginner stages. For that reason, I recommended a beginner program.
If you're not sure if you've hit all of your beginner gains, then it would make sense to run a beginner program.LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
I am not a pure newbie, and I am not sure if I have hit all my beginner gains yet
I didn't say you're a pure newbie. However your lifts are still in the beginner stages. For that reason, I recommended a beginner program.
If you're not sure if you've hit all of your beginner gains, then it would make sense to run a beginner program.
I just feel like I've heard not great things about SL or SS. that's why I went with icf 5x5. Maybe I'll stick with it a little longer until my cut is over? And what's wrong with using a hypetrophy routine like all pros or phat? Would that be detrimental vs doing something that is more a powerlifting program?
And I think I'm a beginner still due to my low #s but at the same time I'm no longer making linear progress so that worries me I've hit my max
I don't know man... you say you're not making linear progress, but you totally butchered the ICF program and switched the reps and sets around. How do you know if you're making linear progress or not if you're not even following the progression correctly....?
What are your other lifts looking like?
Butchered is definitely the right word. I'm sure the OP will make gains on ANY program as long as he actually follows it as written.
I guess I'm just looking at two different goals right now. My short term goal (4-6 weeks) of a cut and a long term (6-8 month) bulk goal. I'm not sure why to do for each. Do I stick to the same routine? I guess I don't even know where I am anymore with my strength, and know when or how to train to the point where I have "one rep left in the tank". Am I making any sense???I guess, with my history of lifting/strength/goals, what is your opinion of the best program for me? I'm paralyzed right now with where to go
Here's what you do. You just follow one program. The one LolBroScience gave you is a great one. It combines strength and size. Go into the gym this week and find your 1RM. Then plug it into the program and just do what the program says. It doesn't matter if on your last set you could do another set, just do it the way it says. For the accessory exercises pick a weight where the last few reps are going to be tough, but not to where you fail.
You are going to make more progress putting effort into a decent program then you are trying to manipulate programs to fit what you want them to be. The guys who build these know what they are doing and have been doing it for a long time. Just follow the program as it is built.
http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Awesome. I will do this. Can I calculate my 1 rep max with a calculator online rather than testing it for real?
This is good for cutting and bulking?
It will give a rough estimate if you base if off the calc. Just pick a starting point, it doesn't matter where as you'll be progressing from that point forward.
You'd be getting stronger, so yes it's good for both.
And just so I'm sure, we are talking about 5/3/1 right?0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
I am not a pure newbie, and I am not sure if I have hit all my beginner gains yet
I didn't say you're a pure newbie. However your lifts are still in the beginner stages. For that reason, I recommended a beginner program.
If you're not sure if you've hit all of your beginner gains, then it would make sense to run a beginner program.LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
I am not a pure newbie, and I am not sure if I have hit all my beginner gains yet
I didn't say you're a pure newbie. However your lifts are still in the beginner stages. For that reason, I recommended a beginner program.
If you're not sure if you've hit all of your beginner gains, then it would make sense to run a beginner program.
I just feel like I've heard not great things about SL or SS. that's why I went with icf 5x5. Maybe I'll stick with it a little longer until my cut is over? And what's wrong with using a hypetrophy routine like all pros or phat? Would that be detrimental vs doing something that is more a powerlifting program?
And I think I'm a beginner still due to my low #s but at the same time I'm no longer making linear progress so that worries me I've hit my max
I don't know man... you say you're not making linear progress, but you totally butchered the ICF program and switched the reps and sets around. How do you know if you're making linear progress or not if you're not even following the progression correctly....?
What are your other lifts looking like?
Butchered is definitely the right word. I'm sure the OP will make gains on ANY program as long as he actually follows it as written.
I guess I'm just looking at two different goals right now. My short term goal (4-6 weeks) of a cut and a long term (6-8 month) bulk goal. I'm not sure why to do for each. Do I stick to the same routine? I guess I don't even know where I am anymore with my strength, and know when or how to train to the point where I have "one rep left in the tank". Am I making any sense???I guess, with my history of lifting/strength/goals, what is your opinion of the best program for me? I'm paralyzed right now with where to go
Here's what you do. You just follow one program. The one LolBroScience gave you is a great one. It combines strength and size. Go into the gym this week and find your 1RM. Then plug it into the program and just do what the program says. It doesn't matter if on your last set you could do another set, just do it the way it says. For the accessory exercises pick a weight where the last few reps are going to be tough, but not to where you fail.
You are going to make more progress putting effort into a decent program then you are trying to manipulate programs to fit what you want them to be. The guys who build these know what they are doing and have been doing it for a long time. Just follow the program as it is built.
http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Awesome. I will do this. Can I calculate my 1 rep max with a calculator online rather than testing it for real?
This is good for cutting and bulking?
It will give a rough estimate if you base if off the calc. Just pick a starting point, it doesn't matter where as you'll be progressing from that point forward.
You'd be getting stronger, so yes it's good for both.
And just so I'm sure, we are talking about 5/3/1 right?
Any program can get you stronger if you stick with it and it has a progressive overload component...0 -
I am looking at the Candito program and I like what I see. Are squats and deads smart to do the same day though?
Also, I might veer back to the icf program (without my changes) for the remainder of my cut0 -
I am looking at the Candito program and I like what I see. Are squats and deads smart to do the same day though?
Also, I might veer back to the icf program (without my changes) for the remainder of my cut
Yes, you can do squats and deads on the same day. Depends on the weight and volume. I do heavy deads and lighter squats one day and heavy squats and lighter deads on another.
0 -
I am looking at the Candito program and I like what I see. Are squats and deads smart to do the same day though?
Also, I might veer back to the icf program (without my changes) for the remainder of my cut
Yes, you can do squats and deads on the same day. Depends on the weight and volume. I do heavy deads and lighter squats one day and heavy squats and lighter deads on another.
Yes, and I'd Squat first.0 -
I am looking at the Candito program and I like what I see. Are squats and deads smart to do the same day though?
Also, I might veer back to the icf program (without my changes) for the remainder of my cut
Yes, you can do squats and deads on the same day. Depends on the weight and volume. I do heavy deads and lighter squats one day and heavy squats and lighter deads on another.
Canditos program has a heavy day and a hypetrophy day. Would you swap one squat/dead for the other?0
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