Getting discouraged. Lean bulk or cut? What should I do?
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Hi guys
I'm doing some reading on training smarter, not harder. I was wondering how I should gauge the amount of weight I use? I'm reading all this stuff about 1 rep max / etc. But I dont know where to begin with my weights. One thing I have picked up while reading:
1. If you train to failure, don't do it until your last set on an exercise.
However, at this point, I am just totally lost on what to do. THis whole 75% of 1rep max, deloading, etc have all got my head in a spin.
You can either test your 1RM or use a calculator based off reps.
http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/OneRepMax.html ---- is one, but there are others. It doesn't really matter. Pick a conservative 1RM and start following the program from there. Example, if you can hit 5x315 on a squat... you can hit 325 for at least a single (again conservative example).
Get failure out of your head.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Hi guys
I'm doing some reading on training smarter, not harder. I was wondering how I should gauge the amount of weight I use? I'm reading all this stuff about 1 rep max / etc. But I dont know where to begin with my weights. One thing I have picked up while reading:
1. If you train to failure, don't do it until your last set on an exercise.
However, at this point, I am just totally lost on what to do. THis whole 75% of 1rep max, deloading, etc have all got my head in a spin.
You can either test your 1RM or use a calculator based off reps.
http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/OneRepMax.html ---- is one, but there are others. It doesn't really matter. Pick a conservative 1RM and start following the program from there. Example, if you can hit 5x315 on a squat... you can hit 325 for at least a single (again conservative example).
Get failure out of your head.
Ok, so let's use my bench as an example:
I can get about 155x5x5, so what # should i look at when deciding what my load should be? the last 2 sets or so on this go to about failure, or at least I dont know for sure if I could squeeze one more out.0 -
You are WAY overthinking this! If you're doing a 5x5 program, pick up a weight you think you can lift 5x5 times. If you can, next time you do that lift, pick a heavier weight. If you can't, next time you lift, pick a lighter weight. Honestly, you are thinking too much.0
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You are WAY overthinking this! If you're doing a 5x5 program, pick up a weight you think you can lift 5x5 times. If you can, next time you do that lift, pick a heavier weight. If you can't, next time you lift, pick a lighter weight. Honestly, you are thinking too much.
My problem is this: sometimes I can do the 155x5x5, other times I can't. When I can't, I start to worry that I need to de-load, or eat more, or do something else. I'm also going to failure most of the time, which I've been told isn't good for the body. Which is why I'm trying to figure out how to know what weights to use? ie 75% of 1 rep max, or 80%, 85%, etc...0 -
1. Pick a preset program, you're not ready to do your own programming. Most of them have pre built templates where you plug in your 1rm, no effort required.
2. You can do the 155 for the first few sets I assume. You probably run into issues on the latter sets because you're fatigued. Using 5x155 in the Calc gives you a 1rm of about 175. Again, you can be conservative and use 90% of that... it doesn't matter. Pick a starting point as your 1rm, and stick with a set program. The templates will take care of calculating the progression.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »1. Pick a preset program, you're not ready to do your own programming. Most of them have pre built templates where you plug in your 1rm, no effort required.
2. You can do the 155 for the first few sets I assume. You probably run into issues on the latter sets because you're fatigued. Using 5x155 in the Calc gives you a 1rm of about 175. Again, you can be conservative and use 90% of that... it doesn't matter. Pick a starting point as your 1rm, and stick with a set program. The templates will take care of calculating the progression.
are there any you'd recommend? I feel like programs like 5/3/1 SL and SS are all focused too primarily on powerlifting. But on a cut, I guess I'm not really gaining mass anyway. Any you'd recommend for the last 4-6 weeks of cut, and for the beginning of a lean bulk?0 -
You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.0 -
I am thinking at 188 and 6'2" you are definitely in your IBW range (<25 bmi) and could probably benefit from a recomp or light, clean bulk. Yes, you do have a little BF around the lower abdomen but it really is not that horrible. You do need energy to be able to do the lifts that will help fill out those trouble areas. Definitely would work with a quality strength program and may would be a good investment to have a few sessions with a personal trainer to get you pointed in the right direction.
1. You are starting where most people on this board would "kill" to start at. Stay positive about yourself. The thing about fitness is that we are NEVER satisfied with where we are and tend to focus on the negative.. You have a lot of positive going on.
2. lift heavy (under the supervision of a qualified personal trainer if possible)... If not, decide on a quality program and stick with it.
3. As for intake, I would say maintenance to slightly above maintenance to achieve the goals that you say you are going for. If you start noticing too much Fat gain, then you could go for a short term cut to check it back in.
4. best wishes for achieving your goals.
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Jeez. How skinny does a guy have to get to "start." He looks pretty lean to me. It's no wonder people give up. Everyone has such bonkers advice on when you're supposed to start. The advice always seems to be different for men vs women too. Women get the whole "eat right below your TDEE and lift." Guys get the "cut until you're a skeleton" then eat like a horse.
He's somewhere in the mid teens most likely. Not fat by any means whatsoever but the problem with beginning a bulk at this stage is that he's quite likely to become dissatisfied with his physique in 2 months when he starts seeing fat accumulation and approaching the upper teens in body-fat%. Unless of course he manages to stick the surplus perfectly and keep rate of gain nice and slow -- something few people manage to do correctly especially without having done it a few times.
His profile says he's 25 and has facial and body hair more consistent with that age group than a mid-teen. Not sure where we got this assumption.
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For a start-starting to hate your body? Please try to shift that way of thinking, it's stressful and will actually have a negative impact on your goals! You have so much to be proud of and you actually look great IMO. If you haven't already, I suggest reading all you can by Alan Aragon. His next book in due out December but his first would prob be just as good. His website is also very informative. I learnt so much and was able to really distill all the BS and bro science from the internet and focus on what is fact. He is very well respected by the weightlifting, bodybuilding and physique focused community and many of the pros go to him. His books are easy to relate to. Apologies if you already know this as I didn't read you entire thread.0
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kdeaux1959 wrote: »Jeez. How skinny does a guy have to get to "start." He looks pretty lean to me. It's no wonder people give up. Everyone has such bonkers advice on when you're supposed to start. The advice always seems to be different for men vs women too. Women get the whole "eat right below your TDEE and lift." Guys get the "cut until you're a skeleton" then eat like a horse.
He's somewhere in the mid teens most likely. Not fat by any means whatsoever but the problem with beginning a bulk at this stage is that he's quite likely to become dissatisfied with his physique in 2 months when he starts seeing fat accumulation and approaching the upper teens in body-fat%. Unless of course he manages to stick the surplus perfectly and keep rate of gain nice and slow -- something few people manage to do correctly especially without having done it a few times.
His profile says he's 25 and has facial and body hair more consistent with that age group than a mid-teen. Not sure where we got this assumption.
Mid teens bf%
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kdeaux1959 wrote: »Jeez. How skinny does a guy have to get to "start." He looks pretty lean to me. It's no wonder people give up. Everyone has such bonkers advice on when you're supposed to start. The advice always seems to be different for men vs women too. Women get the whole "eat right below your TDEE and lift." Guys get the "cut until you're a skeleton" then eat like a horse.
He's somewhere in the mid teens most likely. Not fat by any means whatsoever but the problem with beginning a bulk at this stage is that he's quite likely to become dissatisfied with his physique in 2 months when he starts seeing fat accumulation and approaching the upper teens in body-fat%. Unless of course he manages to stick the surplus perfectly and keep rate of gain nice and slow -- something few people manage to do correctly especially without having done it a few times.
His profile says he's 25 and has facial and body hair more consistent with that age group than a mid-teen. Not sure where we got this assumption.
What are you even talking about?0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
Again, overthinking. You're in a deficit. A strength program is just fine. Once you're ready to bulk, then you can start thinking about starting a hypertrophy program.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
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LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
You're a beginner and SS is not extreme. You need to build strength in order to build size. LolBroScience has given you tons of help that you could have paid a trainer a couple hundred bucks to learn. You've objected to everything he's suggested and they were all great suggestions. You can either leave your comfort zone to follow his suggestions and see progress or you can keep doing what you are doing to stay small and weak. I know that's harsh, but maybe it will sink in that what you are doing is not effective and what he is suggesting will be.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
I am not a pure newbie, and I am not sure if I have hit all my beginner gains yet
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LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
I am not a pure newbie, and I am not sure if I have hit all my beginner gains yet
Doesn't matter. SS is a solid program. Better than what you are making up as you go.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
I am not a pure newbie, and I am not sure if I have hit all my beginner gains yet
I didn't say you're a pure newbie. However your lifts are still in the beginner stages. For that reason, I recommended a beginner program.
If you're not sure if you've hit all of your beginner gains, then it would make sense to run a beginner program.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
I am not a pure newbie, and I am not sure if I have hit all my beginner gains yet
I didn't say you're a pure newbie. However your lifts are still in the beginner stages. For that reason, I recommended a beginner program.
If you're not sure if you've hit all of your beginner gains, then it would make sense to run a beginner program.LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »You need a strength base, but if you're not interested in running any of those... perhaps try Candito's Linear : http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
Has elements of both strength and hypertrophy work.
I agree. However I was hesitant to do something as extreme as SS when I begin my bulk, as I want to focus on mass building as well. I am not opposed to a strength program, but wouldn't that not align with my goals of mass gaining?
SS is a beginner program, so I would hardly qualify it as extreme. Hypertrophy is going to occur with sufficient volume, load, and progression regardless (given that you're in a surplus outside of being a pure newbie).
The candito program has a strength base, as well as additional assistance work. What's the problem?
I am not a pure newbie, and I am not sure if I have hit all my beginner gains yet
I didn't say you're a pure newbie. However your lifts are still in the beginner stages. For that reason, I recommended a beginner program.
If you're not sure if you've hit all of your beginner gains, then it would make sense to run a beginner program.
I just feel like I've heard not great things about SL or SS. that's why I went with icf 5x5. Maybe I'll stick with it a little longer until my cut is over? And what's wrong with using a hypetrophy routine like all pros or phat? Would that be detrimental vs doing something that is more a powerlifting program?0
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