Getting discouraged. Lean bulk or cut? What should I do?
Replies
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You're definitely looking much leaner from your first pic
You might feel your progress is slow, but I honestly think that you've made a big difference in a short time - wish my progress was as good. You're winning at cutting!
On with the bulk, I say. Just bear in mind that if you want results, you're in it for the long haul. I'm just starting my second bulk on the 1st and I'll need a good few more bulk/cut cycles before I get where I want to be. Just keep taking photos and measurements to motivate yourself.
Stick with your programme and enjoy the extra calories - it's been good reading your updates.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »beginning to up my caloric intake. Aiming for 3,200 / day now, rather than the 3,000 I was before.
I'm going to montior my weight gain, and strength gains, keep as-is for a few weeks, then most likely up from there.
Last night was a better workout. I am trying to focus on feeling it in my chest when I bench, and I noticed a differnece once I didn't grip the bar so hard, and allowed my chest to do some of the work rather than just my arms are forearms. (It was a subtle difference... has anyone else felt this?)
So I'm feeling a litlte more hopeful today. I'm worried of ballooning back to exactly where I started back in September, but hopefully more strength gains will = more mass as well. I don't *believe* i've hit my max when it comes to noob gains, so hopefully I will experience some of that as well.
Are you still sticking to the program as written with the sets, reps, and progression scheme?
Yes I am!0 -
You're definitely looking much leaner from your first pic
You might feel your progress is slow, but I honestly think that you've made a big difference in a short time - wish my progress was as good. You're winning at cutting!
On with the bulk, I say. Just bear in mind that if you want results, you're in it for the long haul. I'm just starting my second bulk on the 1st and I'll need a good few more bulk/cut cycles before I get where I want to be. Just keep taking photos and measurements to motivate yourself.
Stick with your programme and enjoy the extra calories - it's been good reading your updates.
Thank you for your encouragement!0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »beginning to up my caloric intake. Aiming for 3,200 / day now, rather than the 3,000 I was before.
I'm going to montior my weight gain, and strength gains, keep as-is for a few weeks, then most likely up from there.
Last night was a better workout. I am trying to focus on feeling it in my chest when I bench, and I noticed a differnece once I didn't grip the bar so hard, and allowed my chest to do some of the work rather than just my arms are forearms. (It was a subtle difference... has anyone else felt this?)
So I'm feeling a litlte more hopeful today. I'm worried of ballooning back to exactly where I started back in September, but hopefully more strength gains will = more mass as well. I don't *believe* i've hit my max when it comes to noob gains, so hopefully I will experience some of that as well.
Are you still sticking to the program as written with the sets, reps, and progression scheme?
Yes I am!
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LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »beginning to up my caloric intake. Aiming for 3,200 / day now, rather than the 3,000 I was before.
I'm going to montior my weight gain, and strength gains, keep as-is for a few weeks, then most likely up from there.
Last night was a better workout. I am trying to focus on feeling it in my chest when I bench, and I noticed a differnece once I didn't grip the bar so hard, and allowed my chest to do some of the work rather than just my arms are forearms. (It was a subtle difference... has anyone else felt this?)
So I'm feeling a litlte more hopeful today. I'm worried of ballooning back to exactly where I started back in September, but hopefully more strength gains will = more mass as well. I don't *believe* i've hit my max when it comes to noob gains, so hopefully I will experience some of that as well.
Are you still sticking to the program as written with the sets, reps, and progression scheme?
Yes I am!
We are saving the world one lifter at a time!
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Yup ^^^JeffseekingV wrote: »You should take videos of your bench squat and dead. Probably some improvements to be had in there that will move your lifts and improve your outlook
Last year I thought my squat was pretty much on point but I decided to record it and posted it in the Eat, Train, Progress forum. It was pointed out that I had some pretty obvious flaws that I did not know existed. I had to reduce my squat by almost 50 lbs to get the form down but it was worth it.
Also there are great video out there on YouTube from guys like Mark Ripptoe, Scott Herman etc that do a great job at breaking down squats and deadlifts
Yeah, I've been in several squat discussions lately, and I really think I need to reevaluate my form. I need to find a way to video myself so I can actually get some critique.0 -
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Stage one is buying a phone not ancient enough that it will have usable video... :laugh:
Yup ^^^JeffseekingV wrote: »You should take videos of your bench squat and dead. Probably some improvements to be had in there that will move your lifts and improve your outlook
Last year I thought my squat was pretty much on point but I decided to record it and posted it in the Eat, Train, Progress forum. It was pointed out that I had some pretty obvious flaws that I did not know existed. I had to reduce my squat by almost 50 lbs to get the form down but it was worth it.
Also there are great video out there on YouTube from guys like Mark Ripptoe, Scott Herman etc that do a great job at breaking down squats and deadlifts
Yeah, I've been in several squat discussions lately, and I really think I need to reevaluate my form. I need to find a way to video myself so I can actually get some critique.
Gonna have to suck up the potential embarrassment and ask a stranger to record you or get creative a prop the phone up on some weights to do it yourself. I did that yesterday and it worked out. When I had to drop my squat it was a real ego blow but it had to be done.
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Stage one is buying a phone not ancient enough that it will have usable video... :laugh:
Yup ^^^JeffseekingV wrote: »You should take videos of your bench squat and dead. Probably some improvements to be had in there that will move your lifts and improve your outlook
Last year I thought my squat was pretty much on point but I decided to record it and posted it in the Eat, Train, Progress forum. It was pointed out that I had some pretty obvious flaws that I did not know existed. I had to reduce my squat by almost 50 lbs to get the form down but it was worth it.
Also there are great video out there on YouTube from guys like Mark Ripptoe, Scott Herman etc that do a great job at breaking down squats and deadlifts
Yeah, I've been in several squat discussions lately, and I really think I need to reevaluate my form. I need to find a way to video myself so I can actually get some critique.
Gonna have to suck up the potential embarrassment and ask a stranger to record you or get creative a prop the phone up on some weights to do it yourself. I did that yesterday and it worked out. When I had to drop my squat it was a real ego blow but it had to be done.
LMFAO! Yes, that most definitely needs to happen first!0 -
Stage one is buying a phone not ancient enough that it will have usable video... :laugh:
Yup ^^^JeffseekingV wrote: »You should take videos of your bench squat and dead. Probably some improvements to be had in there that will move your lifts and improve your outlook
Last year I thought my squat was pretty much on point but I decided to record it and posted it in the Eat, Train, Progress forum. It was pointed out that I had some pretty obvious flaws that I did not know existed. I had to reduce my squat by almost 50 lbs to get the form down but it was worth it.
Also there are great video out there on YouTube from guys like Mark Ripptoe, Scott Herman etc that do a great job at breaking down squats and deadlifts
Yeah, I've been in several squat discussions lately, and I really think I need to reevaluate my form. I need to find a way to video myself so I can actually get some critique.
Gonna have to suck up the potential embarrassment and ask a stranger to record you or get creative a prop the phone up on some weights to do it yourself. I did that yesterday and it worked out. When I had to drop my squat it was a real ego blow but it had to be done.
Either that or get a really good sketch artist!0 -
It's probably time for me to change programs and deload. My technique needs work as well as mobility0
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JeffseekingV wrote: »It's probably time for me to change programs and deload. My technique needs work as well as mobility
What program are you using right now?0 -
I need to find a time to start working a mobility routine into my schedule as well. This is a pretty great site (and there are tons of stretches in the videos, although I have no idea how the one guy does all that in jeans) that I found, but I haven't incorporated it into my regular program yet.JeffseekingV wrote: »It's probably time for me to change programs and deload. My technique needs work as well as mobility
http://www.muscleforlife.com/how-to-improve-flexibility-and-mobility-for-squatting/0 -
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JeffseekingV wrote: »It's probably time for me to change programs and deload. My technique needs work as well as mobility
What program are you using right now?
None. That's probably one problem. But I do revolve my lifting program around the big 3. It's really hard to lift and run ball and try to get cardio in. As I get sore as holy hell after ball and leg day0 -
JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »It's probably time for me to change programs and deload. My technique needs work as well as mobility
What program are you using right now?
None. That's probably one problem. But I do revolve my lifting program around the big 3. It's really hard to lift and run ball and try to get cardio in. As I get sore as holy hell after ball and leg day
Hmmmm...I stopped running etc. to concentrate on lifting. If you want to make lifting gains, something else probably has to give. I just finished my first cycle of Wendler's 5/3/1 and I'm in love
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OP, I think this is a good (and timely) article for you to read concerning some of your mental concerns with dealing with a workout that doesn't "push" you as hard:
bretcontreras.com/addicted-to-fatigue/0 -
OP, I think this is a good (and timely) article for you to read concerning some of your mental concerns with dealing with a workout that doesn't "push" you as hard:
bretcontreras.com/addicted-to-fatigue/
Yay! Let's all give ourselves Rhabdo!0 -
Well I'll say this. August 2013 I was 295 pounds (20 years couch potato, 37 6-0) "cut" to 162.4, went from 15.5 inch "biceps" to under 13", 57" waist to 32.5", legs shrunk too. Lifted the entire time, lost strength last 3-4 pounds (seemed drastic to me at time) I got to single digits bf% (~9% ), but didn't have lots of definition. Went about ~250 calories over maintance and have actually added little muscle and abs show more now than 1.5 months ago when I started my bulk.
The thing you have to remember is getting lean for most means not being big and muscled, that takes years of considerable and consistent work unless you get some chemical assistance and even then it takes work. Trust me it's worth it to me changing my whole body to one that is fairly lean.0 -
Yup ^^^JeffseekingV wrote: »You should take videos of your bench squat and dead. Probably some improvements to be had in there that will move your lifts and improve your outlook
Last year I thought my squat was pretty much on point but I decided to record it and posted it in the Eat, Train, Progress forum. It was pointed out that I had some pretty obvious flaws that I did not know existed. I had to reduce my squat by almost 50 lbs to get the form down but it was worth it.
Also there are great video out there on YouTube from guys like Mark Ripptoe, Scott Herman etc that do a great job at breaking down squats and deadlifts
Yeah, I've been in several squat discussions lately, and I really think I need to reevaluate my form. I need to find a way to video myself so I can actually get some critique.
Gonna have to suck up the potential embarrassment and ask a stranger to record you or get creative a prop the phone up on some weights to do it yourself. I did that yesterday and it worked out. When I had to drop my squat it was a real ego blow but it had to be done.
I feel you MrM, I had to drop mine after some pointers from a strength coach (stance was too narrow so not working hamstrings enough) - just 1 RM tested today and I'm still 5 kg down from 6 months ago
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hi all
just wanted to give an update. I have been following the routine, and with a few workouts under my belt, I am still progressing in strength (although I am still below my old numbers at this point). I have upped my calories to 3,200 and have been sticking with this number.
My mental state has begun to panic again, as I feel like I am putting on fat (i am seriously so paranoid that all I have added is fat, and yet the scale hasn't changed, and I am still eating way below my last bulk).
Because i haven't gained on the scale, would you recommend I add more calories? Or keep at mine now until I can't progress in strength? Again, I still have a bit of fat on my lower abdomen and legs, and maybe if i consitently stay at the same weight on the scale, but become stronger, I am offsetting my body composition?
I'm trying to stay hopeful, but I am increasingly worried this will all fall apart again. My mental game is weak.
Thanks all0 -
hi all
just wanted to give an update. I have been following the routine, and with a few workouts under my belt, I am still progressing in strength (although I am still below my old numbers at this point). I have upped my calories to 3,200 and have been sticking with this number.
My mental state has begun to panic again, as I feel like I am putting on fat (i am seriously so paranoid that all I have added is fat, and yet the scale hasn't changed, and I am still eating way below my last bulk).
Because i haven't gained on the scale, would you recommend I add more calories? Or keep at mine now until I can't progress in strength? Again, I still have a bit of fat on my lower abdomen and legs, and maybe if i consistently stay at the same weight on the scale, but become stronger, I am offsetting my body composition?
I'm trying to stay hopeful, but I am increasingly worried this will all fall apart again. My mental game is weak.
Thanks all
You're going to gain fat on a bulk - accept that. Small increases in macros and calories over time will help minimize it as much as possible though.
The bolded refers to a "recomp" and while possible, it does take time to occur and it is no where near as optimal from a hypertrophy standpoint when compared to being in a caloric surplus.
That said, totally my opinion here... I would hold calories constant until you reach a point where your numbers are back where they are. From there, look to slowly begin ramping them up again.
Again, just MY opinion.
Focus on the strength and performance, the hypertrophy and aesthetics will come as a by product. Just stay consistent.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »hi all
just wanted to give an update. I have been following the routine, and with a few workouts under my belt, I am still progressing in strength (although I am still below my old numbers at this point). I have upped my calories to 3,200 and have been sticking with this number.
My mental state has begun to panic again, as I feel like I am putting on fat (i am seriously so paranoid that all I have added is fat, and yet the scale hasn't changed, and I am still eating way below my last bulk).
Because i haven't gained on the scale, would you recommend I add more calories? Or keep at mine now until I can't progress in strength? Again, I still have a bit of fat on my lower abdomen and legs, and maybe if i consistently stay at the same weight on the scale, but become stronger, I am offsetting my body composition?
I'm trying to stay hopeful, but I am increasingly worried this will all fall apart again. My mental game is weak.
Thanks all
You're going to gain fat on a bulk - accept that. Small increases in macros and calories over time will help minimize it as much as possible though.
The bolded refers to a "recomp" and while possible, it does take time to occur and it is no where near as optimal from a hypertrophy standpoint when compared to being in a caloric surplus.
That said, totally my opinion here... I would hold calories constant until you reach a point where your numbers are back where they are. From there, look to slowly begin ramping them up again.
Again, just MY opinion.
Focus on the strength and performance, the hypertrophy and aesthetics will come as a by product. Just stay consistent.
Thanks for the feedback. So meaning keep my calories at 3,200 until my strength #s are back to where we were?
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LolBroScience wrote: »hi all
just wanted to give an update. I have been following the routine, and with a few workouts under my belt, I am still progressing in strength (although I am still below my old numbers at this point). I have upped my calories to 3,200 and have been sticking with this number.
My mental state has begun to panic again, as I feel like I am putting on fat (i am seriously so paranoid that all I have added is fat, and yet the scale hasn't changed, and I am still eating way below my last bulk).
Because i haven't gained on the scale, would you recommend I add more calories? Or keep at mine now until I can't progress in strength? Again, I still have a bit of fat on my lower abdomen and legs, and maybe if i consistently stay at the same weight on the scale, but become stronger, I am offsetting my body composition?
I'm trying to stay hopeful, but I am increasingly worried this will all fall apart again. My mental game is weak.
Thanks all
You're going to gain fat on a bulk - accept that. Small increases in macros and calories over time will help minimize it as much as possible though.
The bolded refers to a "recomp" and while possible, it does take time to occur and it is no where near as optimal from a hypertrophy standpoint when compared to being in a caloric surplus.
That said, totally my opinion here... I would hold calories constant until you reach a point where your numbers are back where they are. From there, look to slowly begin ramping them up again.
Again, just MY opinion.
Focus on the strength and performance, the hypertrophy and aesthetics will come as a by product. Just stay consistent.
Thanks for the feedback. So meaning keep my calories at 3,200 until my strength #s are back to where we were?
Yes, that is what I would do. Then, look to increase them in small amounts over time.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »hi all
just wanted to give an update. I have been following the routine, and with a few workouts under my belt, I am still progressing in strength (although I am still below my old numbers at this point). I have upped my calories to 3,200 and have been sticking with this number.
My mental state has begun to panic again, as I feel like I am putting on fat (i am seriously so paranoid that all I have added is fat, and yet the scale hasn't changed, and I am still eating way below my last bulk).
Because i haven't gained on the scale, would you recommend I add more calories? Or keep at mine now until I can't progress in strength? Again, I still have a bit of fat on my lower abdomen and legs, and maybe if i consistently stay at the same weight on the scale, but become stronger, I am offsetting my body composition?
I'm trying to stay hopeful, but I am increasingly worried this will all fall apart again. My mental game is weak.
Thanks all
You're going to gain fat on a bulk - accept that. Small increases in macros and calories over time will help minimize it as much as possible though.
The bolded refers to a "recomp" and while possible, it does take time to occur and it is no where near as optimal from a hypertrophy standpoint when compared to being in a caloric surplus.
That said, totally my opinion here... I would hold calories constant until you reach a point where your numbers are back where they are. From there, look to slowly begin ramping them up again.
Again, just MY opinion.
Focus on the strength and performance, the hypertrophy and aesthetics will come as a by product. Just stay consistent.
Thanks for the feedback. So meaning keep my calories at 3,200 until my strength #s are back to where we were?
Yes, that is what I would do. Then, look to increase them in small amounts over time.
Sounds like a good plan. Just curious, whats the reasoning/thought behind this tactic?0 -
For me, I view it as still training under a certain threshold. I wouldn't deem myself in need of more calories in order to recover better.
Once my strength, or volume begins to surpass that previous point, I would look to start slowly adding in again because overload will be occurring again.
Backed by nothing more than how I would approach it myself.0 -
If you're looking "fat" at this point, it's probably just water retention from the increased volume of food, etc. You're doing fine. Actually sounds like you're doing better than fine. You will feel fat. You will probably get a little fat. It's all part of the process and it's one of those easier said than done things. I tell people this all the time, but when I start feeling fat, I panic too. It's completely normal.0
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Feeling a little down today, and discouraged if I will ever get to where I want to be.
I've worked hard (notice I said "hard" but not "smart") for three years, yet I feel like I have yielded little to no result. I went to the gym today. Felt pretty standard/fairly easy (although I can feel things like my bench really begin to get more difficult). I have stuck with the program, and while it hasn't been that long, am feeling ancy. I just use this forum as a way to talk myself off a bridge I suppose, and hopefully hear from you all about your stories.
I am currently eating around 3300 calories a day, trying to hit needed fat/protein, and fill the rest in with whatever else. I worry that if I continue to eat at my maintenance (or a little below) I will see no size changes, and my body will stay the same.
Even with my great deload, dropping all my weights to 65-70% of my 1 rpm, is my continuation of gradual lifting progression mean that I am progressing? If that makes sense. For example, my bench once was 180x5x3. However, I wasn't taking the bar low enough, (a little over half of how far down I should be going). Now, I can press 160x5x5, gradually increasing to this number over hte past few weeks. I am still below that old number, but I am pushing more and more each week. Would I find gains from that?
I guess I still am confused on how All this works. Again, sorry for the rant. I just want to feel like my care and dedication is/will take me somewhere. I feel so hopeless tonight.0 -
Feeling a little down today, and discouraged if I will ever get to where I want to be.
I've worked hard (notice I said "hard" but not "smart") for three years, yet I feel like I have yielded little to no result. I went to the gym today. Felt pretty standard/fairly easy (although I can feel things like my bench really begin to get more difficult). I have stuck with the program, and while it hasn't been that long, am feeling ancy. I just use this forum as a way to talk myself off a bridge I suppose, and hopefully hear from you all about your stories.
I am currently eating around 3300 calories a day, trying to hit needed fat/protein, and fill the rest in with whatever else. I worry that if I continue to eat at my maintenance (or a little below) I will see no size changes, and my body will stay the same.
Even with my great deload, dropping all my weights to 65-70% of my 1 rpm, is my continuation of gradual lifting progression mean that I am progressing? If that makes sense. For example, my bench once was 180x5x3. However, I wasn't taking the bar low enough, (a little over half of how far down I should be going). Now, I can press 160x5x5, gradually increasing to this number over hte past few weeks. I am still below that old number, but I am pushing more and more each week. Would I find gains from that?
I guess I still am confused on how All this works. Again, sorry for the rant. I just want to feel like my care and dedication is/will take me somewhere. I feel so hopeless tonight.
You can still increase strength and also cause hypertrophy at maintenance calorie (although far less optimal as opposed to being in a caloric surplus). However, if you feel you are ready, start slowly increasing you calories over time. Add in 100 calories, see how you react and stay at that level. When you hold weight for a few weeks, increase again etc.
As for the lifting... you are increasing volume over time which yields gains.
180x5x3 = 2700 lbs
160x5x5 = 4000 lbs
You're going to reach a point where you will be able to hit 180x5x5 and so on so forth.
You don't need to always add weight to the bar in order to keep progressively overloading. You can increase reps, sets, weight etc. It all equates to more total volume and that's ultimately what you are after. Now, what I just said isn't a go ahead to deviate from the current program.
You also mentioned you're now moving through the full range of motion more efficiently.0
This discussion has been closed.
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