How long between reps before it's not a "set" anymore?
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A day0
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Dude, your supposed to exhale on exertion. You are going to hurt yourself by holding your breath during exercise. Pulled muscles at best, possibly an aneurism in your future.0
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2-3 seconds max between reps for a rest-pause scenario; otherwise no pause.
60-90 seconds between sets unless you are squatting or deadlifting very heavy then 2-3 minutes rest is fine.
5x5 method states 90s between sets if it was easy, 3 minutes if it was hard to finish the set.
This is where the term "heavy" is a bit subjective. Typically working in a 5rm or lower would be considered heavy but I can tell you that as you get stronger working to say 5rm at over double BW squats for example is a LOT more taxing than doing the same thing as at BW (as a beginner). You will need to rest longer. I have a bit of trouble doing that as I love to just keep going but I know that if I don't have a good 5mins between heavy sets of squats and deads then the next set will be a shocker. (despite "feeling" like I could do it before I start)0 -
If you're doing rest/pause sets you re-rack or stop the set for about 15-20 sec before continuing and that is still a "set"0
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if you re-rack it, the set is finished
if it's a lift that ends with the bar on the floor, i'd say the set is finished after you let go of the bar and stand up.. or after 60 seconds between reps which is the standard rest0 -
how do you know they are texting? i use an app on my phone to track my weights/sets and it also times my rest periodI know this will be a matter of opinion for everyone, but I'm just curious where people draw a line, if any, for how long you would pause between reps before you consider stopping a set or consider it not "a set" anymore?
If you are that @$$hole that is always texting between sets your taking to ducking long !!!!! and it's no longer a set your just taking a seat!0 -
2-3 seconds max between reps for a rest-pause scenario; otherwise no pause.
60-90 seconds between sets unless you are squatting or deadlifting very heavy then 2-3 minutes rest is fine.
5x5 method states 90s between sets if it was easy, 3 minutes if it was hard to finish the set.
This is where the term "heavy" is a bit subjective. Typically working in a 5rm or lower would be considered heavy but I can tell you that as you get stronger working to say 5rm at over double BW squats for example is a LOT more taxing than doing the same thing as at BW (as a beginner). You will need to rest longer. I have a bit of trouble doing that as I love to just keep going but I know that if I don't have a good 5mins between heavy sets of squats and deads then the next set will be a shocker. (despite "feeling" like I could do it before I start)
I completely agree with 5+ mins if you are in the DBW category...0 -
Gimme a break. I 'push' harder when coughing, sneezing, or taking a dump.Dude, your supposed to exhale on exertion. You are going to hurt yourself by holding your breath during exercise. Pulled muscles at best, possibly an aneurism in your future.
You laugh, but it's a real burlitch carrying around a loaded barbell on your shoulders all day! You can't use your hands, have to go through doorways sideways, stairs suck and you can't use the elevator, the barbell doesn't fit in the bathroom so you just have to hold it till later, and forget about getting a taxi to stop. Other than that an all-day set would be an awesome idea.A day0 -
If that's the case you aren't pushing yourself that hard. If you watch a powerlifter (I know you are doing sets of 15) squat he will take a deep breath, descend and about 1/4 of the way up let air out through pressed lips or even yell or grunt. They are not holding their breath through the entire rep.Gimme a break. I 'push' harder when coughing, sneezing, or taking a dump.0 -
Ok seems some confusion here on holding your breath. So to clarify.
1) You MUST hold your breath when doing ANY heavy compound movement. there is no exception to this. The technique even has a name. http://www.crossfithoboken.com/2011/09/20/the-valsalva-manuever-a-mind-blowingly-useful-technique/
2) You do NOT hold your breath for the entirety of the set. Or even the rep.
3) So lets use squats as an example. You unrack and have a pile of weight on your shoulders and you're standing there. during this part of the lift you can breath normally. When you're ready to do the rep, you take a deep breath, and tighten your core solid. You then drop into the pocket, while STILL holding your breath. you then start to lift yourself back up. while STILL holding your breath. You THEN once you're rising can start to exhale if you want.
4) Why do you do this? Because in the pocket is the most dangerous place to be to suddenly have your core give out. When someone exhales, their core WILL relax. Your back will then be unprotected and you're possibly effed. Keeping your breath in keeps your core strong and solid. As you rise, your core strength becomes less a concern and the more you need primary driver. Thats where exhaling to get that bit of explosive oomph can come into play. But even then, it's not uncommon to see top lifters hold their breath the entire way through and just 'exhale' while keeping breath in. (their cheeks puff way out and face turns red, but they don't actually breath out)0 -
All this bull**** aside... You may be lifting too heavy if you're asking this question.
Are you maintaining the same form as the first rep until nearly the last rep? If you answered no, you're probably lifting too heavy.
Why is this bad, you ask?
Well if your core is losing tightness and you're having trouble controlling your breathing you could be putting your spine in a compromised position. This can result in serious injuries to the lumbar and thoracic spine.
check yo self, beatriz... i kid0 -
2-3 seconds max between reps for a rest-pause scenario; otherwise no pause.
60-90 seconds between sets unless you are squatting or deadlifting very heavy then 2-3 minutes rest is fine.
5x5 method states 90s between sets if it was easy, 3 minutes if it was hard to finish the set.
What if I want to do 60-90 second rest between sets to force myseklf to use glycogen stores rather than letting ATP level rise? What if im really pushing my deadlift and need 10 seconds between reps? In other words, there is no golden number and you do different things for different reasons..0 -
Perhaps I should have claimed that I have to pause during a set because the Magical Workout Anti-fairy, clad in the purest shimmering samite, comes forth from the bosom of the barbell and casts Bigby's Clenched Fist striking me directly in the sternum and knocking the wind out of me. (Unless I make my saving throw, of course, which is why I don't pause after every rep.)
My form isn't changing. It's not my muscles getting tired, it doesn't even get interesting until about the 12th rep. It's the fact that my lungs can't keep up with my legs. If I did any less weight I'd be leaping off the ground with a barbell on my back.All this bull**** aside... You may be lifting too heavy if you're asking this question.
Are you maintaining the same form as the first rep until nearly the last rep? If you answered no, you're probably lifting too heavy.
So far that's the closest description to how I am doing it. It's all pretty natural, but the pace at which I need to breathe and the pace at which I squat don't line up.If that's the case you aren't pushing yourself that hard. If you watch a powerlifter (I know you are doing sets of 15) squat he will take a deep breath, descend and about 1/4 of the way up let air out through pressed lips or even yell or grunt. They are not holding their breath through the entire rep.
Exactly, context is definitely important here.What if I want to do 60-90 second rest between sets to force myseklf to use glycogen stores rather than letting ATP level rise? What if im really pushing my deadlift and need 10 seconds between reps? In other words, there is no golden number and you do different things for different reasons..0 -
Perhaps I should have claimed that I have to pause during a set because the Magical Workout Anti-fairy, clad in the purest shimmering samite, comes forth from the bosom of the barbell and casts Bigby's Clenched Fist striking me directly in the sternum and knocking the wind out of me. (Unless I make my saving throw, of course, which is why I don't pause after every rep.)
My form isn't changing. It's not my muscles getting tired, it doesn't even get interesting until about the 12th rep. It's the fact that my lungs can't keep up with my legs. If I did any less weight I'd be leaping off the ground with a barbell on my back.All this bull**** aside... You may be lifting too heavy if you're asking this question.
Are you maintaining the same form as the first rep until nearly the last rep? If you answered no, you're probably lifting too heavy.
So far that's the closest description to how I am doing it. It's all pretty natural, but the pace at which I need to breathe and the pace at which I squat don't line up.If that's the case you aren't pushing yourself that hard. If you watch a powerlifter (I know you are doing sets of 15) squat he will take a deep breath, descend and about 1/4 of the way up let air out through pressed lips or even yell or grunt. They are not holding their breath through the entire rep.
Exactly, context is definitely important here.What if I want to do 60-90 second rest between sets to force myseklf to use glycogen stores rather than letting ATP level rise? What if im really pushing my deadlift and need 10 seconds between reps? In other words, there is no golden number and you do different things for different reasons..
if you're doing 12+ reps per set you aren't lifting heavy enough0 -
Gimme a break. I 'push' harder when coughing, sneezing, or taking a dump.
Then it sounds like you arent lifting enough to even worry about resting in between sets. If you can hold your breath the entire time through a set of squats then you dont need to worry how long to rest in between sets because you arent even working out.
End of Thread Right here.0 -
I think a set ends when you take all stress off the targeted muscle groups. As long as you keep the weight on your leg muscles (not your bones by locking out the knees) it's still a single set.
That being said, I'm not sure I understand why you are doing 15RM squats at a pace faster than you can breathe without hyperventilating. A slower pace on the squat would allow you to concentrate on perfect form and allow you keep 1 rep/1 breath rhythm. I would think anything faster than that would be a cardio execise.0 -
This is probably the point where many OPs would ragequit and/or start a thread about the mean bullys who don't support their journey. I just think some of these responses are hilarious. Thanks for the laughs.
You should tell that to Bryan Haycock. You could text him between sets while you're pretending to track your workout with your phone. :laugh:if you're doing 12+ reps per set you aren't lifting heavy enough
Which thread are you reading? Can you link me to it because I'd like to read it too. I didn't ask how long to wait between sets, nor did I say I could hold my breath through an entire set, so you should probably go repost your reply in whatever other thread you've confused this one with.Then it sounds like you arent lifting enough to even worry about resting in between sets. If you can hold your breath the entire time through a set of squats then you dont need to worry how long to rest in between sets because you arent even working out.
End of Thread Right here.
Maybe you can talk to the Magical Workout Anti-fairy and tell her to stop taking my wind.That being said, I'm not sure I understand why you are doing 15RM squats at a pace faster than you can breathe without hyperventilating. A slower pace on the squat would allow you to concentrate on perfect form and allow you keep 1 rep/1 breath rhythm. I would think anything faster than that would be a cardio execise.
It really doesn't matter, my legs can outpace my lungs. Why do people have such a hard time understanding this? Honestly I feel sorry for people who have such whimpy legs. :sad:0 -
Bryan Haycock is hooge and your workout should be NOTHING like his... you dont train like a bodybuilder to become a bodybuilder....0
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Gees, my comment wasn't attacking you, I was just curious why you were squatting 15RM at such a rapid pace that you couldn't breathe once per rep. I'm just getting back into heavy lifting after 8 years off and am looking for any ideas.
BTW, if you didn't deadlift in your underoos maybe the magical workout anti fairy wouldn't come take your breath away. Have you tried pull-ups, they absorb sweat very well. I also like working out in the cotton onsies, you get 3-packs for like $5 at wallyworld and they dont fall down when doing presses or curls - the buttons in crotch make them easy to get off too.
PS - this is tongue in cheek, i realize the kid deadlifting in underoos is your son or nephew or someone close to you but not really you. I know this because the kid in the picture is way too young to have an account on MFP and there is no way he would know who the heck Bryan Haycock is.0 -
calm down grandpaThis is probably the point where many OPs would ragequit and/or start a thread about the mean bullys who don't support their journey. I just think some of these responses are hilarious. Thanks for the laughs.
You should tell that to Bryan Haycock. You could text him between sets while you're pretending to track your workout with your phone. :laugh:if you're doing 12+ reps per set you aren't lifting heavy enough
Which thread are you reading? Can you link me to it because I'd like to read it too. I didn't ask how long to wait between sets, nor did I say I could hold my breath through an entire set, so you should probably go repost your reply in whatever other thread you've confused this one with.Then it sounds like you arent lifting enough to even worry about resting in between sets. If you can hold your breath the entire time through a set of squats then you dont need to worry how long to rest in between sets because you arent even working out.
End of Thread Right here.
Maybe you can talk to the Magical Workout Anti-fairy and tell her to stop taking my wind.That being said, I'm not sure I understand why you are doing 15RM squats at a pace faster than you can breathe without hyperventilating. A slower pace on the squat would allow you to concentrate on perfect form and allow you keep 1 rep/1 breath rhythm. I would think anything faster than that would be a cardio execise.
It really doesn't matter, my legs can outpace my lungs. Why do people have such a hard time understanding this? Honestly I feel sorry for people who have such whimpy legs. :sad:
SL 5x5 is sets of 5 for a reason. if you did stronglifts you should understand the reason for doing smaller sets
if you are lifting light enough to be able to do a set of 12 of a weight, you are going to get less strength gains than if you were lifting a set of 5 of a heavier weight
that make sense to you?0 -
calm down grandpa
SL 5x5 is sets of 5 for a reason. if you did stronglifts you should understand the reason for doing smaller sets
if you are lifting light enough to be able to do a set of 12 of a weight, you are going to get less strength gains than if you were lifting a set of 5 of a heavier weight
that make sense to you?
There is more in this world than Stronglifts.0 -
There is more in this world than Stronglifts.
SHUT YOUR FILTHY LYING MOUTH!!!!0 -
calm down grandpa
SL 5x5 is sets of 5 for a reason. if you did stronglifts you should understand the reason for doing smaller sets
if you are lifting light enough to be able to do a set of 12 of a weight, you are going to get less strength gains than if you were lifting a set of 5 of a heavier weight
that make sense to you?
There is more in this world than Stronglifts.
i mentioned stronglifts because OP says he did stronglifts. what is the relevance of your comment?0 -
LMAO! 9/10 would read again.BTW, if you didn't deadlift in your underoos maybe the magical workout anti fairy wouldn't come take your breath away. Have you tried pull-ups, they absorb sweat very well. I also like working out in the cotton onsies, you get 3-packs for like $5 at wallyworld and they dont fall down when doing presses or curls - the buttons in crotch make them easy to get off too.
Says the guy who suggested there is such a thing as useless data. (That's blasphemy, dude!)SHUT YOUR FILTHY LYING MOUTH!!!!
I understand it, but my goal is not raw strength at the expense of all else. I did SL for 30 workouts and had good newbie strength gains. I switched over to HST and in 6 weeks had comparable strength gains to what I would have gotten had I continued SL 5X5, plus some size.SL 5x5 is sets of 5 for a reason. if you did stronglifts you should understand the reason for doing smaller sets
if you are lifting light enough to be able to do a set of 12 of a weight, you are going to get less strength gains than if you were lifting a set of 5 of a heavier weight
that make sense to you?
You really need to do 15's to appreciate them, they are a different animal. Seriously, try it. Take your squat 5RM and multiply by 0.77, put that on a bar and squat it for 2 sets of 15. Then cry for your mommy. Then come back and post your experience.
If you want to understand why I am doing 15's for a 2 week cycle as part of a larger cycle that includes 10's, 5's, negs and deconditioning, then I suggest you read up on hypertrophy specific training at http://hypertrophy-specific.com/. If you want to criticize the program you should direct it at the person who designed it. At this point, by telling me I'm doing it wrong you are arguing with results.0 -
I have never tried HST but have read mostly positive things on it. On my "hypertrophy" leg I do 1 set of 20 rep breathing squats. These are a *****.0
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this sounds like aunt gretchen's version of the widowmaker squat set. if that's what you are going for, don't be scared and just do real widowmakers instead
LMAO! 9/10 would read again.BTW, if you didn't deadlift in your underoos maybe the magical workout anti fairy wouldn't come take your breath away. Have you tried pull-ups, they absorb sweat very well. I also like working out in the cotton onsies, you get 3-packs for like $5 at wallyworld and they dont fall down when doing presses or curls - the buttons in crotch make them easy to get off too.
Says the guy who suggested there is such a thing as useless data. (That's blasphemy, dude!)SHUT YOUR FILTHY LYING MOUTH!!!!
I understand it, but my goal is not raw strength at the expense of all else. I did SL for 30 workouts and had good newbie strength gains. I switched over to HST and in 6 weeks had comparable strength gains to what I would have gotten had I continued SL 5X5, plus some size.SL 5x5 is sets of 5 for a reason. if you did stronglifts you should understand the reason for doing smaller sets
if you are lifting light enough to be able to do a set of 12 of a weight, you are going to get less strength gains than if you were lifting a set of 5 of a heavier weight
that make sense to you?
You really need to do 15's to appreciate them, they are a different animal. Seriously, try it. Take your squat 5RM and multiply by 0.77, put that on a bar and squat it for 2 sets of 15. Then cry for your mommy. Then come back and post your experience.
If you want to understand why I am doing 15's for a 2 week cycle as part of a larger cycle that includes 10's, 5's, negs and deconditioning, then I suggest you read up on hypertrophy specific training at http://hypertrophy-specific.com/. If you want to criticize the program you should direct it at the person who designed it. At this point, by telling me I'm doing it wrong you are arguing with results.
regardless, those types of workouts are for hypertrophy and not as much strength gains - if you are trying to be a bodybuilder, sure go ahead - but i recommend getting way more strength (not that i'm saying you are weak, but you aren't bodybuilder strong) before you try to sculpt yourself into arnold
unless of course you just want to get a little bigger to show off to the mistress, in which case: by all means carry on0 -
My goal is to have fun. HST is accomplishing that just fine for me. Also, I'm taller than you, weigh 55 pounds less, am 20 years older and I still squat more than you. So even if it were the point of this thread, how smart would I be to take your advice on how to squat?this sounds like aunt gretchen's version of the widowmaker squat set. if that's what you are going for, don't be scared and just do real widowmakers instead
regardless, those types of workouts are for hypertrophy and not as much strength gains - if you are trying to be a bodybuilder, sure go ahead - but i recommend getting way more strength (not that i'm saying you are weak, but you aren't bodybuilder strong) before you try to sculpt yourself into arnold
unless of course you just want to get a little bigger to show off to the mistress, in which case: by all means carry on0 -
BTW to seriously answer your question, I didn't learn how to throw a ball, ride a bike, or how to dive by going slowly over and over. I could see squatting slowly a handful of times way back when I was starting out (which I did) but not after 5 months. As far as speed and that making it a cardio exercise, I'm talking about "explosive" movement. Much of the practical value of my squats (as far as doing something in the real world with the strength you've developed) is in exploding off the end of a diving board to get more height. At that point you've got a fraction of a second of push time, developing slow strength wouldn't do me any good.I think a set ends when you take all stress off the targeted muscle groups. As long as you keep the weight on your leg muscles (not your bones by locking out the knees) it's still a single set.
That being said, I'm not sure I understand why you are doing 15RM squats at a pace faster than you can breathe without hyperventilating. A slower pace on the squat would allow you to concentrate on perfect form and allow you keep 1 rep/1 breath rhythm. I would think anything faster than that would be a cardio execise.
Also I can't speak for anyone else but the finer points of my form depend on how much I'm squatting because the location of my center of gravity goes from near my hips at no weight and moves toward the bar with more and more weight. If you look at squat diagrams they show the bar directly above the center of the foot. That only works if your CG is the actual barbell. When I bend my legs my hips and all that weight goes behind my feet, so I have to counterbalance that by putting the bar forward to keep my CG (which is not the bar, until the bar has a lot more weight on it) over the center of my foot. The less weight is on the bar, the farther forward it has to go to counterbalance my butt.
The result is that a lot of my 1BW squat form doesn't transfer to 1.25BW squats for me. I suspect that's different at much higher weights. But I'm not up to that point yet and I'll have progressed slowly and properly evolved my form to that point by the time I get there. 0 -
what did i say that made you mad?
Also, I'm taller than you, weigh 55 pounds less, am 20 years older and I still squat more than you. So even if it were the point of this thread, how smart would I be to take your advice on how to squat?this sounds like aunt gretchen's version of the widowmaker squat set. if that's what you are going for, don't be scared and just do real widowmakers instead
regardless, those types of workouts are for hypertrophy and not as much strength gains - if you are trying to be a bodybuilder, sure go ahead - but i recommend getting way more strength (not that i'm saying you are weak, but you aren't bodybuilder strong) before you try to sculpt yourself into arnold
unless of course you just want to get a little bigger to show off to the mistress, in which case: by all means carry on
i would think as a SAH dad you'd have plenty of free time to do research about how best to maximize your gains.. in which case you'd know what i'm talking about
now please stop taking things personally. and try a widowmaker set before telling someone a set of 15 with 15rm is hard
edit - also after reading your last post - it seems like you do need advice on how to squat - i suggest Starting Strength - Rippetoe will help your squat form0 -
I have done quite a bit of research. I already read all of Starting Strength as well. I truly don't need advice on how to squat, I'm doing just fine. Perhaps you don't understand Newtonian physics and the concept of center of mass.
what did i say that made you mad?
Also, I'm taller than you, weigh 55 pounds less, am 20 years older and I still squat more than you. So even if it were the point of this thread, how smart would I be to take your advice on how to squat?this sounds like aunt gretchen's version of the widowmaker squat set. if that's what you are going for, don't be scared and just do real widowmakers instead
regardless, those types of workouts are for hypertrophy and not as much strength gains - if you are trying to be a bodybuilder, sure go ahead - but i recommend getting way more strength (not that i'm saying you are weak, but you aren't bodybuilder strong) before you try to sculpt yourself into arnold
unless of course you just want to get a little bigger to show off to the mistress, in which case: by all means carry on
i would think as a SAH dad you'd have plenty of free time to do research about how best to maximize your gains.. in which case you'd know what i'm talking about
now please stop taking things personally. and try a widowmaker set before telling someone a set of 15 with 15rm is hard
edit - also after reading your last post - it seems like you do need advice on how to squat - i suggest Starting Strength - Rippetoe will help your squat form
I'm not mad, I'm laughing. I see no reason to take advice from someone whose results aren't even comparable to my own. I'm squatting up to 1.5 BW, you're not even doing your own. Why would anyone in their right mind think you know more about squatting? It's a pretty straightforward question, if you want to imagine there's anger behind it then go for it.
I don't care about your widowmakers. It's not really about whether it's hard. You seem to think this is a contest to prove what a badass you are. Like I said if you want to argue with the HST program, you need to address that with the person who came up with it. Maybe you can explain to him where his knowledge of muscle physiology is lacking and why his recommendation of 15's is wrong.
As far as telling me which program I should or shouldn't use, first I didn't ask anyone and second my results speak for themselves. According to my measurements I dropped from 20-17% body fat and put on 2 lbs of LBM in the last 6 weeks, and I also progressed just as much on my 5RMs as I would have if I had stayed on SL and kept the same pace. (Unless somehow my strength gains would have accelerated, which doesn't happen.) I really don't understand why anyone would argue with results. It must take a special sort of mental gymnastics to think you're going to win that one.
It's also funny (and, like The Exorcist, keeps getting funnier and funnier every single time I see it) because this thread was intended to be a poll, and people think they need to give advice. It's like posting "what's your favorite pizza" and then all the responses are "you're eating too much pizza" "you're not eating enough pizza" "you shouldn't eat pizza after 7PM" or "you're eating it wrong you should use a fork." I don't remember if more than one or two people actually answered the OP as it was intended.
But kinda like my HRM it's still entertaining, just not in the way it was intended to be.
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