Guide to making claims based on experience
longtimeterp
Posts: 614 Member
Since everyone is here for advice and support on whatever their weight or body composition goals are, i feel it very important to know about actual real life instances and what may or may not have worked for people. If there was not a scientific study done on how you were successful, it's totally okay to provide an opinion of what works best for you. Ultimately what works for some people may or may not work for others, and if we all knew the secret none of us would be on this site. Continuing to provide personal and anecdotal evidence provides real life example and servesas a very positive motivator for many of us. And also because sometimes Lifes, not just Sciences. But always Maths! 
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heh heh.longtimeterp wrote: »if we all knew the secret none of us would be on this site.
I think this is a great point. A lot OPs are asking for help losing weight, and a lot of people are responding calorie in < energy out, but the OP is really asking how did you deal with 1. cravings 2. eating out 3. emotional eating 4. grazing after dinner 5. fitting low-cal meals into a busy lifestyle 6. changing a lifestyle to one more healthy 7. weird issues that are popping up 8. exercise 9. understanding body mass and total energy expenditures 10. etc etc etc.
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Oh Snap...0
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My eyes glaze over when I get a scientific research link shoved at me.
I'm much more interested in hearing from real life people with real life experiences
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Yes indeedy happycamper
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The funniest thing is, when that thread started, i agreed...having recently acquired a graduate degree, i understand it is important to provide support. However when it changed into a "support your post with research, your opinion and advice is useless, we only care about what a scientific study said" i quickly changed sides.
i've actually posted a few studies today when my thoughts were questioned (a nice term for the attitude of some on the forums). They can be useful. But so is what works for someone that has lost 100 lbs, as i place a lot more value on that opinion that a research paper, especially since much like statistics, you can find research supporting almost any claim.0 -
Yes, that is what I love about the success stories. It is great to hear individual experiences and how people may deal with weight/health/fitness.
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Oh, I see what you did there OP …
I am in…to see where your rebuttal thread goes...0 -
DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »heh heh.longtimeterp wrote: »if we all knew the secret none of us would be on this site.
I think this is a great point. A lot OPs are asking for help losing weight, and a lot of people are responding calorie in < energy out, but the OP is really asking how did you deal with 1. cravings 2. eating out 3. emotional eating 4. grazing after dinner 5. fitting low-cal meals into a busy lifestyle 6. changing a lifestyle to one more healthy 7. weird issues that are popping up 8. exercise 9. understanding body mass and total energy expenditures 10. etc etc etc.
All these. We all know the cico formula but it's the tips on what others found most beneficial to them that help most. especially if we can relate to that person.0 -
This should prove to be another classic exercise in futility.
I can't wait.0 -
DiabolicalColossus wrote: »This should prove to be another classic exercise in futility.
I can't wait.
Why bother participating then?0 -
I think that science and anecdote can both have a place on these boards. The problem becomes when people confuse one for the other.0
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Thank you.0
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diannethegeek wrote: »I think that science and anecdote can both have a place on these boards. The problem becomes when people confuse one for the other.
yes, or use flawed personal experience as evidence…
Like " i cut all sugar and lost weight; hence, sugar is bad for me and made me gain weight"…no, because you can eat sugar and lose weight …
*shrugs*0 -
I'm only going to write what matters.
Dave's guide to making clams, based on experience.
Take clam. Shuck. Add lemon juice. Eat.
OR
Take clams, apply to a hot liquid comprised of court boullion, white wine, garlic, chili flakes, bacon, lemon zest, salt, pepper, butter.0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »I think that science and anecdote can both have a place on these boards. The problem becomes when people confuse one for the other.
yes, or use flawed personal experience as evidence…
Like " i cut all sugar and lost weight; hence, sugar is bad for me and made me gain weight"…no, because you can eat sugar and lose weight …
*shrugs*
if someone experiences something personally, how can it be flawed for them?-1 -
[quote=" Ultimately what works for some people may or may not work for others, and if we all knew the secret none of us would be on this site. [/quote]
Honestly I think that we all know that the secret to losing weight is. What people have problems with is dealing with the restrictions of it. Or they are still looking for that magic pill, where they can have their cake and still lose weight.0 -
I don't think most people are looking to eat their cake....but up until using this site never really thought of weight training so it's something in addition to the cico formula.0
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longtimeterp wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »I think that science and anecdote can both have a place on these boards. The problem becomes when people confuse one for the other.
yes, or use flawed personal experience as evidence…
Like " i cut all sugar and lost weight; hence, sugar is bad for me and made me gain weight"…no, because you can eat sugar and lose weight …
*shrugs*
if someone experiences something personally, how can it be flawed for them?
My point was, which maybe it was not clear, when people extrapolate that to others and say if you cut sugar then you will lose weight too …or go the extreme of saying "sugar is bad/evil/etc"….
If it worked for them great..but don't make the leap to the "sugar is evil"..
if that makes any sense???0 -
longtimeterp wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »I think that science and anecdote can both have a place on these boards. The problem becomes when people confuse one for the other.
yes, or use flawed personal experience as evidence…
Like " i cut all sugar and lost weight; hence, sugar is bad for me and made me gain weight"…no, because you can eat sugar and lose weight …
*shrugs*
if someone experiences something personally, how can it be flawed for them?
It's the mistaking correlation with causation that is the problem. What ends up happening is something like "I switched to diet soda, and got fatter, so clearly the diet soda made me fat".
The person obviously did experience a gain in weight, and did make a correlation to drinking diet soda, but incorrectly attributed the causation of the "getting fat" to "drinking diet soda".0 -
longtimeterp wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »I think that science and anecdote can both have a place on these boards. The problem becomes when people confuse one for the other.
yes, or use flawed personal experience as evidence…
Like " i cut all sugar and lost weight; hence, sugar is bad for me and made me gain weight"…no, because you can eat sugar and lose weight …
*shrugs*
if someone experiences something personally, how can it be flawed for them?
My point was, which maybe it was not clear, when people extrapolate that to others and say if you cut sugar then you will lose weight too …or go the extreme of saying "sugar is bad/evil/etc"….
If it worked for them great..but don't make the leap to the "sugar is evil"..
if that makes any sense???
Totally agree with that, especially since everyone is unique.0 -
feed a cold, starve a fever?0
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longtimeterp wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »I think that science and anecdote can both have a place on these boards. The problem becomes when people confuse one for the other.
yes, or use flawed personal experience as evidence…
Like " i cut all sugar and lost weight; hence, sugar is bad for me and made me gain weight"…no, because you can eat sugar and lose weight …
*shrugs*
if someone experiences something personally, how can it be flawed for them?
It's the mistaking correlation with causation that is the problem. What ends up happening is something like "I switched to diet soda, and got fatter, so clearly the diet soda made me fat".
The person obviously did experience a gain in weight, and did make a correlation to drinking diet soda, but incorrectly attributed the causation of the "getting fat" to "drinking diet soda".
And that made me think of that study that said diet soda leads to weight gain a few years ago, when after reading a little more, i interpreted it as those who drink diet soda are already predisposed to weight gain for other reasons or they wouldn't drink diet soda in the first place, so of course they could be more likely to gain weight, but not necessarily from the diet soda.
Correlation/Causation is always an issue with research and its interpretation. i agree with this 100%
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Well, the big difference between making a "claim" from experience and making a claim from research is that when you say "in my experience," you basically don't need to support your own experience. You are sharing your anecdotal experience.
But when someone says "research shows" then.... they need to back that up.
So, you clearly seem to have not at all understood the point of my OP, which was "if you are going to make a 'research/evidence shows' claim, then back it up properly and don't avoid backing up your claims when someone asks for evidence."-1 -
longtimeterp wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »I think that science and anecdote can both have a place on these boards. The problem becomes when people confuse one for the other.
yes, or use flawed personal experience as evidence…
Like " i cut all sugar and lost weight; hence, sugar is bad for me and made me gain weight"…no, because you can eat sugar and lose weight …
*shrugs*
if someone experiences something personally, how can it be flawed for them?
Because correlation and causation are often used interchangeably here.0 -
christinev297 wrote: »My eyes glaze over when I get a scientific research link shoved at me.
I'm much more interested in hearing from real life people with real life experiences
it's attitudes like that that make parents not vaccinate their children and listen to Jenny McCarthy instead.0 -
Capt_Apollo wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »My eyes glaze over when I get a scientific research link shoved at me.
I'm much more interested in hearing from real life people with real life experiences
it's attitudes like that that make parents not vaccinate their children and listen to Jenny McCarthy instead.
My blood pressure rises whenever I have to deal with people like this...0 -
Or listen to people like the Food BabeCapt_Apollo wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »My eyes glaze over when I get a scientific research link shoved at me.
I'm much more interested in hearing from real life people with real life experiences
it's attitudes like that that make parents not vaccinate their children and listen to Jenny McCarthy instead.
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longtimeterp wrote: »...and if we all knew the secret none of us would be on this site.
That's exactly backwards - I'm on the site because I know the secret.
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Well, the big difference between making a "claim" from experience and making a claim from research is that when you say "in my experience," you basically don't need to support your own experience. You are sharing your anecdotal experience.
But when someone says "research shows" then.... they need to back that up.
Well, they really don't. You can request they spoon-feed you the info but if someone tells you the titles of five books they read it in, I think the doubter has some responsibility to pursue further reading if interested. And in the meantime, the person who has not researched hasn't really earned the authority to declare the claims are 'false since not proven within this thread with links'.
This isn't a courtroom with burden of proof and there is no right or wrong answer to 'does fasting have health benefits'. Like anything, there is evidence for and against, and it's up to each of us to seek out that evidence and make our own decision.0 -
Capt_Apollo wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »My eyes glaze over when I get a scientific research link shoved at me.
I'm much more interested in hearing from real life people with real life experiences
it's attitudes like that that make parents not vaccinate their children and listen to Jenny McCarthy instead.
I like to have both. I do listen to the research and professionals, but at least on the other (support) forum it is helpful to hear from people what their experience is like.
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