An obese nutritionist: would you be her patient?
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ThePhoenixIsRising wrote: »ithrowconfetti wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »coasterphile wrote: »I wouldn't trust a tone deaf person to be a vocal coach, so no.
Would you trust a deaf person to write a symphony?
In any situation, there are always exceptions. Beethoven wrote some pretty good music in the Late Period, so yeah, I can trust a deaf person to write a symphony.
So because one exceptional person was able to produce the 9th symphony you would let every deaf person who studied music attempt to wright a symphony for you? Would you judge them on the same level as their hearing competators?
Haha. That's why I said I can trust a deaf person to write a symphony, not all. If writing symphonies was the question at hand, deaf people wouldn't be my first choice, but I wouldn't write them off either, because like I said, there can be exceptions. Similar to not completely writing off an obese nutritionist, who may be able to deliver the service I'm looking for, i.e, providing me with nutritional knowledge if he/she is competent enough, if that's all I'm looking for. But of course, personally, I'd ask the nutritionist to be upfront about why he/she is obese, and if he/she is doing anything to overcome the issue.0 -
I wouldn't refuse to see someone just because they don't follow their own advice. His/Her lack of interest in self-improvement makes no difference to mine.0
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Yeah id go to a mental health professional for my.mental health...and actually have done. My self harm.coinsellor was a recovering self harmer. She understood what i was saying where people who have never struggled with it have been vile to me about it.michellemybelll wrote: »
The prevalence of mental health challenges in mental health professionals is actually kind of disturbing.GuitarJerry wrote: »Most sport coaches are overweight and out of shape, but do they know how to coach and win games? Yes, they do.
Many surgeons are overweight and out of shape also, so are many healthcare workers. Does that mean that don't know how to do their jobs? No, it doesn't.
Yeah but professional coaches rely on a team of athletic trainers to get their athletes in gear.
A surgeon has specific skill sets, including scientific training, medical training and a steady hand. That doesn't mean they know anything about weight loss and nutrition. You are paying them for their ability to operate.
A better comparison is, would you go to a mental health professional who has mental health challenges.
And id consider an overweight nutritionist. Whos not to say they werent 3 stone bigger at one point. Or have a medical condition.
I have a black belt in kickboxing and karate. Could i be unsuitable to teach someone because i dont 'look' like an athlete because of whats happened in my personal life. My knowledge remains intact
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JeffseekingV wrote: »ThePhoenixIsRising wrote: »
If in doing research the obese person is the Beethoven of nutrition then by all means hire them! If on the other hand they are on par with others who are able to present themselves at a healthy weight, their weight become a valid judgment point.levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
Undoubtedly and as a rational consumer you would opt for the healthy weight nutritionist in that scenario.
I would think the right move islevitateme wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »levitateme wrote: »levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
People just want to argue. Beethoven was a musical genius. Is every single obese person the Michaelangelo of food and I'm just missing out because I am close-minded?
I could have easily ended up 400 lbs, but I didn't because I took control of myself. For this reason, I wouldn't trust someone who is 400 lbs to tell me what to eat no matter how much education they had. That's about all I have on the matter.
I wouldn't hire any nutritionist though. I even cut my own hair, if that helps.
Is every thin person a nutritional genius? Being thin doesn't qualify anyone any more than being obese disqualifies anyone. Going by looks is a rather shallow way of making the decesion in this case.
Where did I say that someone being thin would make them a genius about food? Where? Find it.
Obesity is costing the US healthcare industry literally BILLIONS of dollars a year. This has nothing to do with looks. Why would I go see a doctor that I deem unhealthy to get medical advice? I'm fairly certain that most people on this website are using it because they don't WANT to be obese. Does that have more to do with looks or health? Who knows, but being obese isn't a desirable trait, so I don't see why you need to argue this to the death. Do you want to be obese? Is that why you're on a calorie counting website?
Your argument makes no sense to me. I find an obese person who goes to school to learn about nutrition but who chooses not to follow what they know to be hypocritical. I am not talking about "technically" obese people, or slightly overweight people. I am talking about 100 lbs overweight +
ETA: And I know you're just going to come at me with "emotional, blah blah, losing weight is hard." Yes I know, I am a (mostly) recovered binge eater who was obese for many years. I know how hard it is.
You implied it. Your argument makes no sense to me either. Have you seen my post about what it technically qualified as medically obese? If you are rather muscular and shorter, you can be clinically obese and actually have a fairly low bodyfat.
Being thin (the opposite of obese and what you are implying here) doesn't make one healthier. Only your perception does. If you wouldn't want an obese person giving you nutritional advice, then one could disqualify a thin person because they could have an unhealthy eating disorder that keeps them thin.
So the answer is "maybe". Depends on their qualifications.
Dude, you just want to argue semantics and be right in this instance. I am medically obese, but my BF% is not in the obese range, because I have a high lean body mass. The question wasn't "would you trust an obese nutritionist who is *technically* obese but doesn't look like it?" The question also wasn't "do you think thin people automatically are better at 'food' than fat people?"
I used to be clinically obese with a high bodyfat percentage, and during that time I was eating way, way more than I needed, mostly secretly. I don't know why I'm not allowed to opine that someone in that position (as I perceive it) does not deserve my money when it comes to advice about food. Especially when I would never even hire a nutritionist because I can find all the information I need online.
Lol, jesus lord in heaven. I like arguing, obvi, but you telling me I make no sense after all your terrible analogies ITT is absolutely ridiculous.
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ThePhoenixIsRising wrote: »ithrowconfetti wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »coasterphile wrote: »I wouldn't trust a tone deaf person to be a vocal coach, so no.
Would you trust a deaf person to write a symphony?
In any situation, there are always exceptions. Beethoven wrote some pretty good music in the Late Period, so yeah, I can trust a deaf person to write a symphony.
So because one exceptional person was able to produce the 9th symphony you would let every deaf person who studied music attempt to wright a symphony for you? Would you judge them on the same level as their hearing competators?
I wouldn't automatically let all non-obese people be my nutritionist either. Point?0 -
In addition, you're failing to consider the number of overweight and obese people who've already posted saying they would trust the obese nutritionist over the normal weight nutritionist.
Funny how we're not discussing a bias against normal weight nutritionists by those folks.
Exactly.
Don't worry, Beethoven wrote a symphony after he became deaf, therefore every obese person is more qualified to be a nutritionist than a similarly schooled thin person. It's science.0 -
levitateme wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »ThePhoenixIsRising wrote: »
If in doing research the obese person is the Beethoven of nutrition then by all means hire them! If on the other hand they are on par with others who are able to present themselves at a healthy weight, their weight become a valid judgment point.levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
Undoubtedly and as a rational consumer you would opt for the healthy weight nutritionist in that scenario.
I would think the right move islevitateme wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »levitateme wrote: »levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
People just want to argue. Beethoven was a musical genius. Is every single obese person the Michaelangelo of food and I'm just missing out because I am close-minded?
I could have easily ended up 400 lbs, but I didn't because I took control of myself. For this reason, I wouldn't trust someone who is 400 lbs to tell me what to eat no matter how much education they had. That's about all I have on the matter.
I wouldn't hire any nutritionist though. I even cut my own hair, if that helps.
Is every thin person a nutritional genius? Being thin doesn't qualify anyone any more than being obese disqualifies anyone. Going by looks is a rather shallow way of making the decesion in this case.
Where did I say that someone being thin would make them a genius about food? Where? Find it.
Obesity is costing the US healthcare industry literally BILLIONS of dollars a year. This has nothing to do with looks. Why would I go see a doctor that I deem unhealthy to get medical advice? I'm fairly certain that most people on this website are using it because they don't WANT to be obese. Does that have more to do with looks or health? Who knows, but being obese isn't a desirable trait, so I don't see why you need to argue this to the death. Do you want to be obese? Is that why you're on a calorie counting website?
Your argument makes no sense to me. I find an obese person who goes to school to learn about nutrition but who chooses not to follow what they know to be hypocritical. I am not talking about "technically" obese people, or slightly overweight people. I am talking about 100 lbs overweight +
ETA: And I know you're just going to come at me with "emotional, blah blah, losing weight is hard." Yes I know, I am a (mostly) recovered binge eater who was obese for many years. I know how hard it is.
You implied it. Your argument makes no sense to me either. Have you seen my post about what it technically qualified as medically obese? If you are rather muscular and shorter, you can be clinically obese and actually have a fairly low bodyfat.
Being thin (the opposite of obese and what you are implying here) doesn't make one healthier. Only your perception does. If you wouldn't want an obese person giving you nutritional advice, then one could disqualify a thin person because they could have an unhealthy eating disorder that keeps them thin.
So the answer is "maybe". Depends on their qualifications.
Dude, you just want to argue semantics and be right in this instance. I am medically obese, but my BF% is not in the obese range, because I have a high lean body mass. The question wasn't "would you trust an obese nutritionist who is *technically* obese but doesn't look like it?" The question also wasn't "do you think thin people automatically are better at 'food' than fat people?"
I used to be clinically obese with a high bodyfat percentage, and during that time I was eating way, way more than I needed, mostly secretly. I don't know why I'm not allowed to opine that someone in that position (as I perceive it) does not deserve my money when it comes to advice about food. Especially when I would never even hire a nutritionist because I can find all the information I need online.
Lol, jesus lord in heaven. I like arguing, obvi, but you telling me I make no sense after all your terrible analogies ITT is absolutely ridiculous.
The question is "obese" person. There was no mention of how that person looked. Only the term obese was used. So with the lack of more information, I turned to the clinical definition. I quantified my position. You assumed the OP's position.
You are entitled to your opinion. But so am I.0 -
No. I never let someone with a bad hair cut my hair. Same thing.0
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JeffseekingV wrote: »ThePhoenixIsRising wrote: »ithrowconfetti wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »coasterphile wrote: »I wouldn't trust a tone deaf person to be a vocal coach, so no.
Would you trust a deaf person to write a symphony?
In any situation, there are always exceptions. Beethoven wrote some pretty good music in the Late Period, so yeah, I can trust a deaf person to write a symphony.
So because one exceptional person was able to produce the 9th symphony you would let every deaf person who studied music attempt to wright a symphony for you? Would you judge them on the same level as their hearing competators?
I wouldn't automatically let all non-obese people be my nutritionist either. Point?
Your arguments are very similar to the "IIFYM automatically means 'I eat nothing but bags of sugar.'" If someone says they don't want an obese nutritionist, that doesn't mean they think thin people are smarter/better than fat people.
Do you think smokers who work in healthcare are hypocrites? Most people do, but it's okay to have that opinion. It's not nice to point out when people are unhealthy because they are very overweight.
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levitateme wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »ThePhoenixIsRising wrote: »ithrowconfetti wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »coasterphile wrote: »I wouldn't trust a tone deaf person to be a vocal coach, so no.
Would you trust a deaf person to write a symphony?
In any situation, there are always exceptions. Beethoven wrote some pretty good music in the Late Period, so yeah, I can trust a deaf person to write a symphony.
So because one exceptional person was able to produce the 9th symphony you would let every deaf person who studied music attempt to wright a symphony for you? Would you judge them on the same level as their hearing competators?
I wouldn't automatically let all non-obese people be my nutritionist either. Point?
Your arguments are very similar to the "IIFYM automatically means 'I eat nothing but bags of sugar.'" If someone says they don't want an obese nutritionist, that doesn't mean they think thin people are smarter/better than fat people.
Do you think smokers who work in healthcare are hypocrites? Most people do, but it's okay to have that opinion. It's not nice to point out when people are unhealthy because they are very overweight.
Oh now were are trying to discredit by association. Where does the argument about sugar consumption come into this?
If you don't want an obese nutritionist, what are you choices? Right, a non-obese nutritionist. To me, that choice is arbitrary and without merit. IMHO0 -
It comes down to this. You are buying a service.
Service provider A behaves or appears in such a way that indicates they might not be what you need.
Service provider B behaves or appears in such a way that is consistent with what you need.
If you have no other information, who in their right mind goes with service provider A?
Right and that is the way many people will make a choice which is the real world. Ideally as rational consumers we should look at both service providers, get full information on both of them and then having considered all the pros and cons of each make a decision. However, as human beings we rarely have the time or inclination to go through such a process for all if any decisions we have and so we go by limited information which usually favours the provider who's "face fits". It is essentially playing the odds.
However, the issue this creates is similar to the economic problem of statistical discrimination (as opposed to outright prejudice) in the labour market for example. It means that progression is not necessarily on pure merit but other factors including bias. If consumers have no reason to question their behaviour or are not challenged on it then that bias perpetuates over time and is a bar to a meritocracy.
What this thread shows is that many people will get no information at all about an obese nutritionist and dismiss them out of hand wheras if they had got full information they may be a better choice than than the slimmer nutritionist.
And so bias can be perpetuated. Some may argue that is simply the way of things. I would rather challenge it.
There's always someone who would have been a better choice. Unless you have the time and money to make a thorough evaluation of all potential candidates and do background checks and have a thorough interview done by someone with knowledge in the field, you're going to apply some kind of bias when you make your selection. Unless you flip a coin.
In addition, you're failing to consider the number of overweight and obese people who've already posted saying they would trust the obese nutritionist over the normal weight nutritionist.
Funny how we're not discussing a bias against normal weight nutritionists by those folks.
ETA: On the progression by merit. You don't get progression by merit when people pick you out of a phone book (or magazine, or whatever). You get progression by merit when you get business from referrals. Change the question - ask people if they'd see an obese nutritionist to whom they'd had a glowing referral vs a normal weight nutritionist about whom they know nothing else. Watch the responses change.
Yes, we all have biases. However, it does not mean we have to accept them or leave them unchallenged. What I am saying is to examine them and see if they stand up to scrutiny (which is much of how this thread progressed.)
You can speak about the bias against normal weight nutritionists and yes, that is certainly true. However the situations are not equivalent (in my opinion of course) as the bias against the obese nutritionist is more pervasive. More people will reject that person without any information about their qualifications or experience than they would with the person who has the face which fits. Given it is disproportionate I spend more time discussing it than the converse position.
Finally, progression due to merit can only truly occur if you have equality of opportunity, which means barriers to entry into the market are broken down and you have a level playing field. Then people can have at it. I wouldn't argue for equality of outcome however. The best person for the job should succeed.
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JeffseekingV wrote: »ThePhoenixIsRising wrote: »
If in doing research the obese person is the Beethoven of nutrition then by all means hire them! If on the other hand they are on par with others who are able to present themselves at a healthy weight, their weight become a valid judgment point.levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
Undoubtedly and as a rational consumer you would opt for the healthy weight nutritionist in that scenario.
I would think the right move islevitateme wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »levitateme wrote: »levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
People just want to argue. Beethoven was a musical genius. Is every single obese person the Michaelangelo of food and I'm just missing out because I am close-minded?
I could have easily ended up 400 lbs, but I didn't because I took control of myself. For this reason, I wouldn't trust someone who is 400 lbs to tell me what to eat no matter how much education they had. That's about all I have on the matter.
I wouldn't hire any nutritionist though. I even cut my own hair, if that helps.
Is every thin person a nutritional genius? Being thin doesn't qualify anyone any more than being obese disqualifies anyone. Going by looks is a rather shallow way of making the decesion in this case.
Where did I say that someone being thin would make them a genius about food? Where? Find it.
Obesity is costing the US healthcare industry literally BILLIONS of dollars a year. This has nothing to do with looks. Why would I go see a doctor that I deem unhealthy to get medical advice? I'm fairly certain that most people on this website are using it because they don't WANT to be obese. Does that have more to do with looks or health? Who knows, but being obese isn't a desirable trait, so I don't see why you need to argue this to the death. Do you want to be obese? Is that why you're on a calorie counting website?
Your argument makes no sense to me. I find an obese person who goes to school to learn about nutrition but who chooses not to follow what they know to be hypocritical. I am not talking about "technically" obese people, or slightly overweight people. I am talking about 100 lbs overweight +
ETA: And I know you're just going to come at me with "emotional, blah blah, losing weight is hard." Yes I know, I am a (mostly) recovered binge eater who was obese for many years. I know how hard it is.
You implied it. Your argument makes no sense to me either. Have you seen my post about what it technically qualified as medically obese? If you are rather muscular and shorter, you can be clinically obese and actually have a fairly low bodyfat.
Being thin (the opposite of obese and what you are implying here) doesn't make one healthier. Only your perception does. If you wouldn't want an obese person giving you nutritional advice, then one could disqualify a thin person because they could have an unhealthy eating disorder that keeps them thin.
So the answer is "maybe". Depends on their qualifications.
We wouldn't have access to a clinical BMI score for this person. The determination of obese would have to be made by what we see.
In real life, if you look at a person and think they're obese, they're going to be over-fat, and/or possibly retaining a ton of water. Not 'rather muscular and shorter'. I mean, seriously?.
Oh, and yes. Someone who appears unhealthy because they are too thin would also be passed over. The criteria is: if their appearance seems to indicate they would not be as fit to give good advice or to advise on how to follow said advice to meet the client's needs. If the needs are not related to weight, the nutritionist's weight status is no longer an issue.0 -
levitateme wrote: »In addition, you're failing to consider the number of overweight and obese people who've already posted saying they would trust the obese nutritionist over the normal weight nutritionist.
Funny how we're not discussing a bias against normal weight nutritionists by those folks.
Exactly.
Don't worry, Beethoven wrote a symphony after he became deaf, therefore every obese person is more qualified to be a nutritionist than a similarly schooled thin person. It's science.
For their next trick, they will demonstrate that a calorie isn't a calorie.
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JeffseekingV wrote: »ThePhoenixIsRising wrote: »ithrowconfetti wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »coasterphile wrote: »I wouldn't trust a tone deaf person to be a vocal coach, so no.
Would you trust a deaf person to write a symphony?
In any situation, there are always exceptions. Beethoven wrote some pretty good music in the Late Period, so yeah, I can trust a deaf person to write a symphony.
So because one exceptional person was able to produce the 9th symphony you would let every deaf person who studied music attempt to wright a symphony for you? Would you judge them on the same level as their hearing competators?
I wouldn't automatically let all non-obese people be my nutritionist either. Point?
The point was, if all you knew about them was they were deaf (obese) would you give them money just to see if they could produce what you need?0 -
GuitarJerry wrote: »
A better comparison is, would you go to a mental health professional who has mental health challenges.
Again, depends. If that person with mental health challenges is attending to their mental health, and is stable, then why not? Just like a doctor with heart disease or diabetes, but is taking care of those conditions.
Now a mental health professional who isn't taking their medications or is obviously in need of further treatment themselves? That's a different matter.
(I am a mental health professional, so I feel I can speak to this).0 -
levitateme wrote: »In addition, you're failing to consider the number of overweight and obese people who've already posted saying they would trust the obese nutritionist over the normal weight nutritionist.
Funny how we're not discussing a bias against normal weight nutritionists by those folks.
Exactly.
Don't worry, Beethoven wrote a symphony after he became deaf, therefore every obese person is more qualified to be a nutritionist than a similarly schooled thin person. It's science.
For their next trick, they will demonstrate that a calorie isn't a calorie.
Well now you mention it there's bioavailability and...
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JeffseekingV wrote: »ThePhoenixIsRising wrote: »
If in doing research the obese person is the Beethoven of nutrition then by all means hire them! If on the other hand they are on par with others who are able to present themselves at a healthy weight, their weight become a valid judgment point.levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
Undoubtedly and as a rational consumer you would opt for the healthy weight nutritionist in that scenario.
I would think the right move islevitateme wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »levitateme wrote: »levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
People just want to argue. Beethoven was a musical genius. Is every single obese person the Michaelangelo of food and I'm just missing out because I am close-minded?
I could have easily ended up 400 lbs, but I didn't because I took control of myself. For this reason, I wouldn't trust someone who is 400 lbs to tell me what to eat no matter how much education they had. That's about all I have on the matter.
I wouldn't hire any nutritionist though. I even cut my own hair, if that helps.
Is every thin person a nutritional genius? Being thin doesn't qualify anyone any more than being obese disqualifies anyone. Going by looks is a rather shallow way of making the decesion in this case.
Where did I say that someone being thin would make them a genius about food? Where? Find it.
Obesity is costing the US healthcare industry literally BILLIONS of dollars a year. This has nothing to do with looks. Why would I go see a doctor that I deem unhealthy to get medical advice? I'm fairly certain that most people on this website are using it because they don't WANT to be obese. Does that have more to do with looks or health? Who knows, but being obese isn't a desirable trait, so I don't see why you need to argue this to the death. Do you want to be obese? Is that why you're on a calorie counting website?
Your argument makes no sense to me. I find an obese person who goes to school to learn about nutrition but who chooses not to follow what they know to be hypocritical. I am not talking about "technically" obese people, or slightly overweight people. I am talking about 100 lbs overweight +
ETA: And I know you're just going to come at me with "emotional, blah blah, losing weight is hard." Yes I know, I am a (mostly) recovered binge eater who was obese for many years. I know how hard it is.
You implied it. Your argument makes no sense to me either. Have you seen my post about what it technically qualified as medically obese? If you are rather muscular and shorter, you can be clinically obese and actually have a fairly low bodyfat.
Being thin (the opposite of obese and what you are implying here) doesn't make one healthier. Only your perception does. If you wouldn't want an obese person giving you nutritional advice, then one could disqualify a thin person because they could have an unhealthy eating disorder that keeps them thin.
So the answer is "maybe". Depends on their qualifications.
We wouldn't have access to a clinical BMI score for this person. The determination of obese would have to be made by what we see.
In real life, if you look at a person and think they're obese, they're going to be over-fat, and/or possibly retaining a ton of water. Not 'rather muscular and shorter'. I mean, seriously?.
Oh, and yes. Someone who appears unhealthy because they are too thin would also be passed over. The criteria is: if their appearance seems to indicate they would not be as fit to give good advice or to follow said advice for the client's needs. Assuming the needs are healthy weight loss. Not sure why that is not self-evident.
I could see a shorter muscular person and probably guess they could be clinically obese. Just like you could try to determine an overly fat/thin person as being unhealthy.
the criteria is "would you hire an obese person as a nutritionist?".0 -
levitateme wrote: »In addition, you're failing to consider the number of overweight and obese people who've already posted saying they would trust the obese nutritionist over the normal weight nutritionist.
Funny how we're not discussing a bias against normal weight nutritionists by those folks.
Exactly.
Don't worry, Beethoven wrote a symphony after he became deaf, therefore every obese person is more qualified to be a nutritionist than a similarly schooled thin person. It's science.
Not one person in this thread said or implied that. But keep trying to discredit when you can't legitimize your own argument. In fact, I said being fat OR thin didn't qualify them more than the other.0 -
I have not read this thread yet, but I would probably ask the obese nutritionist why they don't practice what they preach, before utilizing their services. I mean he/she is a nutritionist after all. It is okay to ask them why they are obese. I wouldn't go to a nutritionist though unless I needed to for specific diet issues.0
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What if you only communicated though email or phone?0
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Most of the time, we tend to have a general judgment in our mind when it comes to professionals, right?
Meaning, when we want to go to a professional, we expect them to be a certain way:
"Nutritionists are suppose to be fit, muscular, skinny that way I know s/he knows what s/he is talking about; Doctors are suppose to healthy, non-smokers, non-drinkers, etc. because they are health professionals and they tell us not to do certain things to avoid certain diseases/health issues," etc. etc. The "Practice what you preach" mentality - which I agree with, i mean why spend your time studying and investing money and your time into a profession to not take advantage of it and practice what you learn and teach to others, and use that knowledge towards your own health and well-being? If you practice what you teach others, it will reinforce your knowledge of the materials and you'll be able to connect with your clients by sharing your experiences and offering suggestions.
But maybe, if you go to someone that doesn't fit your general interpretation, s/he will know more on the topic as compared to someone who fits your general interpretation on the profession? In any career, it's not only about "looking the part."
It can be psychological or as simple as a life choice, possibly? Maybe s/he enjoys helping others and doesn't really care about herself? Maybe she feels that as long as s/he is helping others with their weight and eating habits that s/he doesn't need to?
Maybe s/he has a medical disorder, needs to take medication that somehow causes her to gain weight instead of lose it, or medical disorder/disease that causes weight gain?
It could be a lot of reasons why s/he is obese. It's sad that s/he might not be taken seriously; most of us choose a career path that we are passionate about, and that passion towards that path can be triggered with life experiences. The obese nutritionist can be going through a medical situation like I said above and would like to help others either avoid her situation or help those in her current situation.
I like looking at every situation in different perspectives before I come to a conclusion...I guess I can't really answer the actual question because I'm stuck between yes and no LOL0 -
JeffseekingV wrote: »What if you only communicated though email or phone?
Why even ask that?
The question was "would you GO to an obese nutritionist?" If it was by email or phone then this entire thread is irrelevant.
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The sugar consumption argument is because of your assumption that anyone who wouldn't want an obese nutritionist would hire a thin nutritionist just based on the fact that they are thin. No one said that but you. You wouldn't be able to tell if someone was "clinically obese but doesn't look it" unless you directly asked "are you clinically obese." The question is obviously based on a nutritionist who is undeniably visually obese. On my phone on lunch wasting my time with this, just because you are so bad at arguing and so smug about your opinion.JeffseekingV wrote: »levitateme wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »ThePhoenixIsRising wrote: »ithrowconfetti wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »coasterphile wrote: »I wouldn't trust a tone deaf person to be a vocal coach, so no.
Would you trust a deaf person to write a symphony?
In any situation, there are always exceptions. Beethoven wrote some pretty good music in the Late Period, so yeah, I can trust a deaf person to write a symphony.
So because one exceptional person was able to produce the 9th symphony you would let every deaf person who studied music attempt to wright a symphony for you? Would you judge them on the same level as their hearing competators?
I wouldn't automatically let all non-obese people be my nutritionist either. Point?
Your arguments are very similar to the "IIFYM automatically means 'I eat nothing but bags of sugar.'" If someone says they don't want an obese nutritionist, that doesn't mean they think thin people are smarter/better than fat people.
Do you think smokers who work in healthcare are hypocrites? Most people do, but it's okay to have that opinion. It's not nice to point out when people are unhealthy because they are very overweight.
Oh now were are trying to discredit by association. Where does the argument about sugar consumption come into this?
If you don't want an obese nutritionist, what are you choices? Right, a non-obese nutritionist. To me, that choice is arbitrary and without merit. IMHO
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JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »ThePhoenixIsRising wrote: »
If in doing research the obese person is the Beethoven of nutrition then by all means hire them! If on the other hand they are on par with others who are able to present themselves at a healthy weight, their weight become a valid judgment point.levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
Undoubtedly and as a rational consumer you would opt for the healthy weight nutritionist in that scenario.
I would think the right move islevitateme wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »levitateme wrote: »levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
People just want to argue. Beethoven was a musical genius. Is every single obese person the Michaelangelo of food and I'm just missing out because I am close-minded?
I could have easily ended up 400 lbs, but I didn't because I took control of myself. For this reason, I wouldn't trust someone who is 400 lbs to tell me what to eat no matter how much education they had. That's about all I have on the matter.
I wouldn't hire any nutritionist though. I even cut my own hair, if that helps.
Is every thin person a nutritional genius? Being thin doesn't qualify anyone any more than being obese disqualifies anyone. Going by looks is a rather shallow way of making the decesion in this case.
Where did I say that someone being thin would make them a genius about food? Where? Find it.
Obesity is costing the US healthcare industry literally BILLIONS of dollars a year. This has nothing to do with looks. Why would I go see a doctor that I deem unhealthy to get medical advice? I'm fairly certain that most people on this website are using it because they don't WANT to be obese. Does that have more to do with looks or health? Who knows, but being obese isn't a desirable trait, so I don't see why you need to argue this to the death. Do you want to be obese? Is that why you're on a calorie counting website?
Your argument makes no sense to me. I find an obese person who goes to school to learn about nutrition but who chooses not to follow what they know to be hypocritical. I am not talking about "technically" obese people, or slightly overweight people. I am talking about 100 lbs overweight +
ETA: And I know you're just going to come at me with "emotional, blah blah, losing weight is hard." Yes I know, I am a (mostly) recovered binge eater who was obese for many years. I know how hard it is.
You implied it. Your argument makes no sense to me either. Have you seen my post about what it technically qualified as medically obese? If you are rather muscular and shorter, you can be clinically obese and actually have a fairly low bodyfat.
Being thin (the opposite of obese and what you are implying here) doesn't make one healthier. Only your perception does. If you wouldn't want an obese person giving you nutritional advice, then one could disqualify a thin person because they could have an unhealthy eating disorder that keeps them thin.
So the answer is "maybe". Depends on their qualifications.
We wouldn't have access to a clinical BMI score for this person. The determination of obese would have to be made by what we see.
In real life, if you look at a person and think they're obese, they're going to be over-fat, and/or possibly retaining a ton of water. Not 'rather muscular and shorter'. I mean, seriously?.
Oh, and yes. Someone who appears unhealthy because they are too thin would also be passed over. The criteria is: if their appearance seems to indicate they would not be as fit to give good advice or to follow said advice for the client's needs. Assuming the needs are healthy weight loss. Not sure why that is not self-evident.
I could see a shorter muscular person and probably guess they could be clinically obese. Just like you could try to determine an overly fat/thin person as being unhealthy.
the criteria is "would you hire an obese person as a nutritionist?".
You do enjoy attempting to deflect by deliberately missing the point, don't you.
In the real world, people do not look at those with low %BF and classify them as obese. In fact, when they hear that some of those people are classified as obese by BMI (but not by %BF), the general response is that the BMI classification is ridiculous and without merit and that %BF should be used instead. So, you can safely presume that if you're going by sight alone, and not medical records, the only people being classified as obese will be those with higher %BF. How high that is will be a subjective thing, based on the client's perspective.
My reference to a criteria is obviously not to the OP, but to the rationale on choosing the nutritionist.0 -
I would hire a sitter to watch my kids. I don't hire a dietitian to lose my weight. I just need information.NOT A CHANCE.
I also wouldn't take management advice from a terrible boss.
Or hire a babysitter that was on the phone with her boyfriend instead of supervising little ones.
Or hire a trainer that was out of breath at the top of a flight of stairs.
I'm a human and as a species we are wired to observe our environment and size up others in the vicinity. It's the whole 'think before you act' part that is necessary in good decision-making. Some people call it judging. That's not inaccurate.
We do it when we choose a babysitter or a doctor. There are exceptions to stereotypes. Perhaps the obese nutritionist has special circumstances. But it won't change the fact that my brain registers a break between her product and her pitch. Someone offering others success, should be successful by their own program, right?
So it isnt that she isn't trustworthy as a doctor, it's that my first impression of her information is that it doesn't work.
It's not politically correct, but it's human to judge so as to be discerning.
I think it really depends on what people are seeking. If someone needs a role model, then they need a thin dietician. If they just need information, it makes no difference.
I just meant that I couldnt trust someone to give me advice I haven't learned before, if they can't even follow it themselves and knowing it didn't help them - based on a first impression. Which is judgmental, and I accept that.
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yopeeps025 wrote: »This thread has wasted pages of arguments over who would judge base off looks in this situation.
Yup, luckily in post racial america, we've found that we can discriminate against yet another group!0 -
I stopped going to my doctor back home because of hygienic concerns of mine. He would have crumbs in his beard and his arm hair. He was a very overweight, sweaty mess. He was too lazy to get up out of his chair and collect things from cabinets and counters. He would ask me to do it. He just sat there, struggling, breathing hard, wheezing, his lab coat buttons about to pop open.
It unsettled me and pissed me off. I couldn't understand how someone who was that unhygienic and out of shape could possibly keep me healthy.
NO MAS! tu es FIRED!
I prefer to surround myself, secularly and professionally, with people who obviously walk the walk.
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