An obese nutritionist: would you be her patient?
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JeffseekingV wrote: »coasterphile wrote: »I wouldn't trust a tone deaf person to be a vocal coach, so no.
Would you trust a deaf person to write a symphony?
In any situation, there are always exceptions. Beethoven wrote some pretty good music in the Late Period, so yeah, I can trust a deaf person to write a symphony.0 -
ithrowconfetti wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »coasterphile wrote: »I wouldn't trust a tone deaf person to be a vocal coach, so no.
Would you trust a deaf person to write a symphony?
In any situation, there are always exceptions. Beethoven wrote some pretty good music in the Late Period, so yeah, I can trust a deaf person to write a symphony.
So because one exceptional person was able to produce the 9th symphony you would let every deaf person who studied music attempt to wright a symphony for you? Would you judge them on the same level as their hearing competators?0 -
It would really depend how big they were. Overweight but still healthy and fit looking then sure no problem. If they looked like a contestant for the biggest loser then no way - I would struggle to be inspired by someone who for whatever reason doesn't embody the lifestyle they're instructing you on. Lead by example and all that0
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JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »No it doesn't. Being thin does not make the person necessarily healthy, knowledgeable about nutrition or in particularly good shape.
Nowhere did I claim that it did.
Yes you did. "look the part". Captain! Engage deflectors on full power!
How do you "look the part"? Resemble a vegetable?
I give up.
Cheers.
This whole argument is entirely silly. Mr. Knight didn't say thin people are more qualified than obese people. He said he wouldn't trust an obese person to be his nutritionist, because this is an example of a person who has all the knowledge but can't put it into practice. I wouldn't trust that person either. I don't like hypocrites.
I don't understand why some people are so butthurt about differing opinions.
AND seriously loling forever at the "deaf person writing a symphony" because Beethoven did it. You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
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levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
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levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
People just want to argue. Beethoven was a musical genius. Is every single obese person the Michaelangelo of food and I'm just missing out because I am close-minded?
I could have easily ended up 400 lbs, but I didn't because I took control of myself. For this reason, I wouldn't trust someone who is 400 lbs to tell me what to eat no matter how much education they had. That's about all I have on the matter.
I wouldn't hire any nutritionist though. I even cut my own hair, if that helps.
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This thread has wasted pages of arguments over who would judge base off looks in this situation.0
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If in doing research the obese person is the Beethoven of nutrition then by all means hire them! If on the other hand they are on par with others who are able to present themselves at a healthy weight, their weight become a valid judgment point.levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
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levitateme wrote: »levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
People just want to argue. Beethoven was a musical genius. Is every single obese person the Michaelangelo of food and I'm just missing out because I am close-minded?
I could have easily ended up 400 lbs, but I didn't because I took control of myself. For this reason, I wouldn't trust someone who is 400 lbs to tell me what to eat no matter how much education they had. That's about all I have on the matter.
I wouldn't hire any nutritionist though. I even cut my own hair, if that helps.
Sure and that's fair enough. Ultimately everyone will make the choices they want and do what they believe is best for them.
I don't think debating an issue or arguing is necessarily a bad thing, if done well. It gives us access to other ideas we may not have considered. We don't have to choose to accept them.
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ThePhoenixIsRising wrote: »
If in doing research the obese person is the Beethoven of nutrition then by all means hire them! If on the other hand they are on par with others who are able to present themselves at a healthy weight, their weight become a valid judgment point.levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
Undoubtedly and as a rational consumer you would opt for the healthy weight nutritionist in that scenario.
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goddessofawesome wrote: »Yep. It's much easier to preach than to practice. Doesn't mean she/he doesn't know what they're talking about.
No, but looking as though you take your own advice lends a bit of credibility. Would you go to a dentist who tells you how important oral hygiene is, that you have to brush and floss when they themselves have no teeth?
Having good oral hygiene can hardly be compared to being overweight. It's quite simple to maintain good oral hygiene- brush your teeth and floss every now and visit your dentist twice a year and then and you're good (genetics also contribute to oral health). So, if my dentist can't seem to brush his teeth a couple times a day or floss every now and then, I might question his credibility.
However, as we all know, maintaining a healthy weight and fitness level is a smidge more of a challenge. It's not as simple as "oh, just eat this many calories and exercise and you'll be healthy, ta da!". Emotions are involved in maintaining a healthy lifestyle and aid in the process of packing on pounds, as well as medical conditions, etc. Oral hygiene, not so much- you basically just brush your teeth. (I do understand some people are afraid of the dentist, etc., but that's not what I mean). If it were as simple to maintain a healthy weight/fitness level, this website would not exist.
I am an intelligent person with a decent amount of knowledge about health and fitness and weight loss, but I, myself, am 100 pounds overweight. Doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. I understand that someone might question my credibility and that's their prerogative, but the OP's question was "would YOU" be her patient. And yes, I would, because I am aware that there are other factors involved.
You're over thinking this process. Because yes- it is that simple.
The steps are very simple.
eat less
move more.
It's quiet simple, outside of extreme medical conditions, to not be so excessively over weight.
the whole reason this website exists is people over complicate it and make it about their emotions. Once they realize they aren't eating their emotions- or they get over their bad guilt/whatever hang ups over food- the pieces fall in to place. But again- maintaining a reasonable weight range and getting an hour or so of activity weekly is completely manageable and reasonable.
Disagree. I understand that this is an issue for SOME people, but there are other "emotions" involved than just "overcomplicating things" or "eating their emotions". There are blasé emotions, there are emotions tied to stress and lack of time, etc. I, for example, do not have "issues with food"-- I don't eat my emotions or have any hang ups or guilt about food. I became overweight simply because I did not take the time to really pay attention to what I was putting in my mouth. Combine that with lack of exercise, a pregnancy, three children, a full time job-- your weight can get away from you. At 317 pounds when I started this, my TDEE was 2400 calories. If you aren't paying attention to calories it is quite easy to eat over that by a couple hundred calories a day; therefore, gaining weight. I suspect that I'm not exactly the only person in the world who ended up overweight in this manner, rather than having a warped relationship with food.
As far as my "overthinking this process"- I am completely aware that the steps, on paper, are simple. Eat less, move more, no brainer. But the daily happenings in life are also involved and if, for example, a single mother is more concerned about keeping a job, putting food on her table, and taking care of her children, she might be less concerned with "eating less and moving more" and more concerned with getting through life and paying her bills. Sorry, but it's not as simple in real life as it is on paper.
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ThePhoenixIsRising wrote: »
If in doing research the obese person is the Beethoven of nutrition then by all means hire them! If on the other hand they are on par with others who are able to present themselves at a healthy weight, their weight become a valid judgment point.levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
Undoubtedly and as a rational consumer you would opt for the healthy weight nutritionist in that scenario.
Which proves if all things are equal other than weight, weight becomes a factor. So if all I am willing to do for research is how much they cost, where they are located, how long they have been in business, and their pic on their website. Their weight in their pic becomes part of how they are judged.
Arguing the extreme and pretending People should be given an opportunity till they prove unsatisfactory is ridiculous. When judging a large group of people you assume they are average till they prove otherwise.0 -
It would really depend how big they were. Overweight but still healthy and fit looking then sure no problem. If they looked like a contestant for the biggest loser then no way - I would struggle to be inspired by someone who for whatever reason doesn't embody the lifestyle they're instructing you on. Lead by example and all that
Do people really go to a nutritionist for inspiration? For back-patting and cheering and story-telling? For lifestyle instruction?
You can do that at weight watchers. Or certain pages here. Both much cheaper and easier to find.
Lets get to the root of the words. Nutrition. Diet. I've seen several nutritionists/dieticians. One for gestational diabetes, and others for nutritional counseling for my children who are underweight. I choose them for their knowledge. My dietician doesn't ever have had to struggle with diabetes to have helped me to create a meal plan to understand the GI of certain foods or manage insulin. Its science. I don't need them to lead me or be an example. There are better places for that. I need their knowledge. What they choose to feed themselves is irrelevant.0 -
ThePhoenixIsRising wrote: »ThePhoenixIsRising wrote: »
If in doing research the obese person is the Beethoven of nutrition then by all means hire them! If on the other hand they are on par with others who are able to present themselves at a healthy weight, their weight become a valid judgment point.levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
Undoubtedly and as a rational consumer you would opt for the healthy weight nutritionist in that scenario.
Which proves if all things are equal other than weight, weight becomes a factor. So if all I am willing to do for research is how much they cost, where they are located, how long they have been in business, and their pic on their website. Their weight in their pic becomes part of how they are judged.
Arguing the extreme and pretending People should be given an opportunity till they prove unsatisfactory is ridiculous. When judging a large group of people you assume they are average till they prove otherwise.
Sure, because all other things being equal you would choose the provider which you perceive provides more - the one that walks the walks as well as talks the talk. That is obvious.
You cannot know who is better though until you have done some research. It may be the case that the obese nutritionist has far better qualifications or testimonials than the slimmer one. However, it has been a theme of this thread that many people would simply not even consider the obese nutritionist at all and do any information gathering on them - hence the bias in action.
However the key component here is not really the walks the walk bit at all, well for me at least. I don't need someone who can execute the plan but rather someone who gives me the best quality advice so that I can execute it.
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ThePhoenixIsRising wrote: »ThePhoenixIsRising wrote: »
If in doing research the obese person is the Beethoven of nutrition then by all means hire them! If on the other hand they are on par with others who are able to present themselves at a healthy weight, their weight become a valid judgment point.levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
Undoubtedly and as a rational consumer you would opt for the healthy weight nutritionist in that scenario.
Which proves if all things are equal other than weight, weight becomes a factor. So if all I am willing to do for research is how much they cost, where they are located, how long they have been in business, and their pic on their website. Their weight in their pic becomes part of how they are judged.
Arguing the extreme and pretending People should be given an opportunity till they prove unsatisfactory is ridiculous. When judging a large group of people you assume they are average till they prove otherwise.
Sure, because all other things being equal you would choose the provider which you perceive provides more - the one that walks the walks as well as talks the talk. That is obvious.
You cannot know who is better though until you have done some research. It may be the case that the obese nutritionist has far better qualifications or testimonials than the slimmer one. However, it has been a theme of this thread that many people would simply not even consider the obese nutritionist at all and do any information gathering on them - hence the bias in action.
However the key component here is not really the walks the walk bit at all, well for me at least. I don't need someone who can execute the plan but rather someone who gives me the best quality advice so that I can execute it.
But as far as the op, we know nothing about this person other than weight! Soo, if all we have to judge them by is weight, why would you not use that as a criteria?0 -
levitateme wrote: »levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
People just want to argue. Beethoven was a musical genius. Is every single obese person the Michaelangelo of food and I'm just missing out because I am close-minded?
I could have easily ended up 400 lbs, but I didn't because I took control of myself. For this reason, I wouldn't trust someone who is 400 lbs to tell me what to eat no matter how much education they had. That's about all I have on the matter.
I wouldn't hire any nutritionist though. I even cut my own hair, if that helps.
Is every thin person a nutritional genius? Being thin doesn't qualify anyone any more than being obese disqualifies anyone. Going by looks is a rather shallow way of making the decesion in this case.0 -
JeffseekingV wrote: »levitateme wrote: »levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
People just want to argue. Beethoven was a musical genius. Is every single obese person the Michaelangelo of food and I'm just missing out because I am close-minded?
I could have easily ended up 400 lbs, but I didn't because I took control of myself. For this reason, I wouldn't trust someone who is 400 lbs to tell me what to eat no matter how much education they had. That's about all I have on the matter.
I wouldn't hire any nutritionist though. I even cut my own hair, if that helps.
Is every thin person a nutritional genius? Being thin doesn't qualify anyone any more than being obese disqualifies anyone. Going by looks is a rather shallow way of making the decesion in this case.
It is what it is. You can stop trying to changes their views and opinions.
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ThePhoenixIsRising wrote: »
But as far as the op, we know nothing about this person other than weight! Soo, if all we have to judge them by is weight, why would you not use that as a criteria?
(psssst, don't tell anyone but I had completely forgotten what the OP was actually about and was speaking generally!)
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JeffseekingV wrote: »levitateme wrote: »levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
People just want to argue. Beethoven was a musical genius. Is every single obese person the Michaelangelo of food and I'm just missing out because I am close-minded?
I could have easily ended up 400 lbs, but I didn't because I took control of myself. For this reason, I wouldn't trust someone who is 400 lbs to tell me what to eat no matter how much education they had. That's about all I have on the matter.
I wouldn't hire any nutritionist though. I even cut my own hair, if that helps.
Is every thin person a nutritional genius? Being thin doesn't qualify anyone any more than being obese disqualifies anyone. Going by looks is a rather shallow way of making the decesion in this case.
Where did I say that someone being thin would make them a genius about food? Where? Find it.
Obesity is costing the US healthcare industry literally BILLIONS of dollars a year. This has nothing to do with looks. Why would I go see a doctor that I deem unhealthy to get medical advice? I'm fairly certain that most people on this website are using it because they don't WANT to be obese. Does that have more to do with looks or health? Who knows, but being obese isn't a desirable trait, so I don't see why you need to argue this to the death. Do you want to be obese? Is that why you're on a calorie counting website?
Your argument makes no sense to me. I find an obese person who goes to school to learn about nutrition but who chooses not to follow what they know to be hypocritical. I am not talking about "technically" obese people, or slightly overweight people. I am talking about 100 lbs overweight +
ETA: And I know you're just going to come at me with "emotional, blah blah, losing weight is hard." Yes I know, I am a (mostly) recovered binge eater who was obese for many years. I know how hard it is.0 -
ThePhoenixIsRising wrote: »
But as far as the op, we know nothing about this person other than weight! Soo, if all we have to judge them by is weight, why would you not use that as a criteria?
(psssst, don't tell anyone but I had completely forgotten what the OP was actually about and was speaking generally!)
Lol
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yopeeps025 wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »levitateme wrote: »levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
People just want to argue. Beethoven was a musical genius. Is every single obese person the Michaelangelo of food and I'm just missing out because I am close-minded?
I could have easily ended up 400 lbs, but I didn't because I took control of myself. For this reason, I wouldn't trust someone who is 400 lbs to tell me what to eat no matter how much education they had. That's about all I have on the matter.
I wouldn't hire any nutritionist though. I even cut my own hair, if that helps.
Is every thin person a nutritional genius? Being thin doesn't qualify anyone any more than being obese disqualifies anyone. Going by looks is a rather shallow way of making the decesion in this case.
It is what it is. You can stop trying to changes their views and opinions.
Wut? With thinking like that we wouldn't have universal suffrage nowadays and only wealthy, landowning gentleman would be able to do so...0 -
That's a good question. Is that why people would balk at an obese dietician?brightsideofpink wrote: »Do people really go to a nutritionist for inspiration?
If you're going because you need to be inspired or motivated by this person, then the obesity thing makes some sense, maybe. I do think people who are old or fat (or both) can be good coaches, but if you need to see a thin person to be inspired, then that's what you need!
If you're going for information, though, it doesn't make sense to say you cannot accept information if the person is fat. Their weight doesn't change the info and it can't make any difference in your weight.0 -
NOT A CHANCE.
I also wouldn't take management advice from a terrible boss.
Or hire a babysitter that was on the phone with her boyfriend instead of supervising little ones.
Or hire a trainer that was out of breath at the top of a flight of stairs.
I'm a human and as a species we are wired to observe our environment and size up others in the vicinity. It's the whole 'think before you act' part that is necessary in good decision-making. Some people call it judging. That's not inaccurate.
We do it when we choose a babysitter or a doctor. There are exceptions to stereotypes. Perhaps the obese nutritionist has special circumstances. But it won't change the fact that my brain registers a break between her product and her pitch. Someone offering others success, should be successful by their own program, right?
So it isnt that she isn't trustworthy as a doctor, it's that my first impression of her information is that it doesn't work.
It's not politically correct, but it's human to judge so as to be discerning.0 -
I would hire a sitter to watch my kids. I don't hire a dietitian to lose my weight. I just need information.NOT A CHANCE.
I also wouldn't take management advice from a terrible boss.
Or hire a babysitter that was on the phone with her boyfriend instead of supervising little ones.
Or hire a trainer that was out of breath at the top of a flight of stairs.
I'm a human and as a species we are wired to observe our environment and size up others in the vicinity. It's the whole 'think before you act' part that is necessary in good decision-making. Some people call it judging. That's not inaccurate.
We do it when we choose a babysitter or a doctor. There are exceptions to stereotypes. Perhaps the obese nutritionist has special circumstances. But it won't change the fact that my brain registers a break between her product and her pitch. Someone offering others success, should be successful by their own program, right?
So it isnt that she isn't trustworthy as a doctor, it's that my first impression of her information is that it doesn't work.
It's not politically correct, but it's human to judge so as to be discerning.
I think it really depends on what people are seeking. If someone needs a role model, then they need a thin dietician. If they just need information, it makes no difference.
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You mean someone that says "do what I say, not as I do." If they made sense based on my knowledge of nutrition, I would and of course if they were in lala land with their recommendations then the biases against that comparison would be alive and well.0
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JeffseekingV wrote: »coasterphile wrote: »I wouldn't trust a tone deaf person to be a vocal coach, so no.
Would you trust a deaf person to write a symphony?
I'm waiting for someone to say no to this.
Waiting...
No.
Because when it comes to betting my own money, I don't bet it on hitting the outlier lottery.0 -
ThePhoenixIsRising wrote: »ThePhoenixIsRising wrote: »ThePhoenixIsRising wrote: »
If in doing research the obese person is the Beethoven of nutrition then by all means hire them! If on the other hand they are on par with others who are able to present themselves at a healthy weight, their weight become a valid judgment point.levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
Undoubtedly and as a rational consumer you would opt for the healthy weight nutritionist in that scenario.
Which proves if all things are equal other than weight, weight becomes a factor. So if all I am willing to do for research is how much they cost, where they are located, how long they have been in business, and their pic on their website. Their weight in their pic becomes part of how they are judged.
Arguing the extreme and pretending People should be given an opportunity till they prove unsatisfactory is ridiculous. When judging a large group of people you assume they are average till they prove otherwise.
Sure, because all other things being equal you would choose the provider which you perceive provides more - the one that walks the walks as well as talks the talk. That is obvious.
You cannot know who is better though until you have done some research. It may be the case that the obese nutritionist has far better qualifications or testimonials than the slimmer one. However, it has been a theme of this thread that many people would simply not even consider the obese nutritionist at all and do any information gathering on them - hence the bias in action.
However the key component here is not really the walks the walk bit at all, well for me at least. I don't need someone who can execute the plan but rather someone who gives me the best quality advice so that I can execute it.
But as far as the op, we know nothing about this person other than weight! Soo, if all we have to judge them by is weight, why would you not use that as a criteria?
Because people just want an excuse to argue.0 -
It comes down to this. You are buying a service.
Service provider A behaves or appears in such a way that indicates they might not be what you need.
Service provider B behaves or appears in such a way that is consistent with what you need.
If you have no other information, who in their right mind goes with service provider A?
Right and that is the way many people will make a choice which is the real world. Ideally as rational consumers we should look at both service providers, get full information on both of them and then having considered all the pros and cons of each make a decision. However, as human beings we rarely have the time or inclination to go through such a process for all if any decisions we have and so we go by limited information which usually favours the provider who's "face fits". It is essentially playing the odds.
However, the issue this creates is similar to the economic problem of statistical discrimination (as opposed to outright prejudice) in the labour market for example. It means that progression is not necessarily on pure merit but other factors including bias. If consumers have no reason to question their behaviour or are not challenged on it then that bias perpetuates over time and is a bar to a meritocracy.
What this thread shows is that many people will get no information at all about an obese nutritionist and dismiss them out of hand wheras if they had got full information they may be a better choice than than the slimmer nutritionist.
And so bias can be perpetuated. Some may argue that is simply the way of things. I would rather challenge it.
There's always someone who would have been a better choice. Unless you have the time and money to make a thorough evaluation of all potential candidates and do background checks and have a thorough interview done by someone with knowledge in the field, you're going to apply some kind of bias when you make your selection. Unless you flip a coin.
In addition, you're failing to consider the number of overweight and obese people who've already posted saying they would trust the obese nutritionist over the normal weight nutritionist.
Funny how we're not discussing a bias against normal weight nutritionists by those folks.
ETA: On the progression by merit. You don't get progression by merit when people pick you out of a phone book (or magazine, or whatever). You get progression by merit when you get business from referrals. Change the question - ask people if they'd see an obese nutritionist to whom they'd had a glowing referral vs a normal weight nutritionist about whom they know nothing else. Watch the responses change.0 -
In addition, you're failing to consider the number of overweight and obese people who've already posted saying they would trust the obese nutritionist over the normal weight nutritionist.
Funny how we're not discussing a bias against normal weight nutritionists by those folks.
Exactly.
0 -
ThePhoenixIsRising wrote: »
If in doing research the obese person is the Beethoven of nutrition then by all means hire them! If on the other hand they are on par with others who are able to present themselves at a healthy weight, their weight become a valid judgment point.levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
Undoubtedly and as a rational consumer you would opt for the healthy weight nutritionist in that scenario.
I would think the right move islevitateme wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »levitateme wrote: »levitateme wrote: »You know Beethoven wasn't born deaf right? He also wasn't completely deaf until very late in his life, so he heard music and knew how notes sounded before he went deaf.
Are all obese people that way from birth or can circumstances change over time?
I know I am being a little glib here but people spend more time researching what TV to buy than something much more important in my opinion - someone who can assist them with health and nutrition.
Perhaps if we tried to eliminate our biases and spent a little more time looking at matters we would identify the best person for the job on actual merit, who could in fact be exceptional, be they slim or not.
Wishful thinking may be but it is better than sitting back and saying "oh well, that's just the way it is" in my view.
People just want to argue. Beethoven was a musical genius. Is every single obese person the Michaelangelo of food and I'm just missing out because I am close-minded?
I could have easily ended up 400 lbs, but I didn't because I took control of myself. For this reason, I wouldn't trust someone who is 400 lbs to tell me what to eat no matter how much education they had. That's about all I have on the matter.
I wouldn't hire any nutritionist though. I even cut my own hair, if that helps.
Is every thin person a nutritional genius? Being thin doesn't qualify anyone any more than being obese disqualifies anyone. Going by looks is a rather shallow way of making the decesion in this case.
Where did I say that someone being thin would make them a genius about food? Where? Find it.
Obesity is costing the US healthcare industry literally BILLIONS of dollars a year. This has nothing to do with looks. Why would I go see a doctor that I deem unhealthy to get medical advice? I'm fairly certain that most people on this website are using it because they don't WANT to be obese. Does that have more to do with looks or health? Who knows, but being obese isn't a desirable trait, so I don't see why you need to argue this to the death. Do you want to be obese? Is that why you're on a calorie counting website?
Your argument makes no sense to me. I find an obese person who goes to school to learn about nutrition but who chooses not to follow what they know to be hypocritical. I am not talking about "technically" obese people, or slightly overweight people. I am talking about 100 lbs overweight +
ETA: And I know you're just going to come at me with "emotional, blah blah, losing weight is hard." Yes I know, I am a (mostly) recovered binge eater who was obese for many years. I know how hard it is.
You implied it. Your argument makes no sense to me either. Have you seen my post about what it technically qualified as medically obese? If you are rather muscular and shorter, you can be clinically obese and actually have a fairly low bodyfat.
Being thin (the opposite of obese and what you are implying here) doesn't make one healthier. Only your perception does. If you wouldn't want an obese person giving you nutritional advice, then one could disqualify a thin person because they could have an unhealthy eating disorder that keeps them thin.
So the answer is "maybe". Depends on their qualifications.0
This discussion has been closed.
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