A Question About Sugar
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Replies
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Patttience wrote: »this is a very good question. First off, my advice is don't bother using the sugar counter at all unless you are a diagnosed diabetic. Nobody else needs to know their sugar count.
What we all need to do is know our carb count. You should aim to keep your carb count low.
The reason why i say the sugar counter is a waste of your interest is a) because there are more important factors and b), unless diabetic the body manages blood sugar levels naturally. If you just eat with your macros in an appropriate balance, you do not need to be concered about the sugar counter.
the sugar counter makes no distinction between refined sugars and natural sugars and it is hte refined sugars only that you need to reduce. You can do this without any sort of counter at all. You need to put significant effort into reducing processed foods because these are the foods that have high levels of added/refined sugar.
Why is refined sugar a problem? Because it intensifies the flavours of foods so that you ar enot happy with normal healthy food and prefer processed foods. Because it causes some people to over eat. And when you over eat refined sugar, it start the ball rolling and keep it rolling endlessly towards weight gain and ill health. Overeating causes imbalances in the hormones signalling systems in teh body. For instance leptin. People who eat a lot tend to develop leptin resistance which means your body can't help you restrict your eating at all because you are always hungry.
Just reducing yoru calories will result in correcting of this problem however, so long as you eat a lot of refined sugar, you will struggle to reduce your calorie intake and maitain it long enough to lose the weight and reprogram yourself into better eating habits.
The other things that you need to be eating more and don't when you eat too much refined/added sguars are vegetables and fruit and high fibre foods. Because meat is a strong flavoured food, people tend not to have any difficult eating eating enough meat and protein when they are also eating a lot of very unhealthy foods but fruit and vegetables tend to be less exciting to the palate becuase they have plainer flavours. To enjoy them, they would need to be eaten with other highly flavoursome foods.
So when you cut out all the procesed foods, you can start to enjoy less intensely flavoured foods, though they still do need ot be prepared in such a way as to be tasty. Hence to be honest, steamed vegies and skinless chicken breast was never going to satisfy anyone in the long term.
There are ways you can cook vegetables and other foods that are tasty adn interesting. Its important the food you eat to replace all the processed foods you may have eaten in teh past is tasty. So that suggests that people need to apply themselves to their cooking. Thsi is probalby one of hte hardest things for most dieters to do in this day and age when a) many can't cook b) most people are very busy and too tired too cook.
But i promise you if you make the effort to prepare your own meals, avoid processed fodos as much as possible and increase your vegetables and fruit you will find losing weight easier. You will also find keeping hte weigh off long term more sustainable.
People need to make a life long commitment to eating better. Its not enough just to do it for long enough to get hte weight off. If you don't commit to ongoing change, you will get fat again.
OP, ignore all this. Other than eating fruits and vegetables, there's nothing true about any of this.-2 -
It varies from person to person. I'm a type 1 diabetic, and I track both fiber and sugar in order to have a better understanding of what types of carbs I am consuming in relation to my blood sugar levels in an attempt to figure out the timing of my insulin dosages.
Exactly, and it varies even among diabetics. I am Type 2 (diet and exercise controlled - no meds) and I only have to keep my total carbs under a limit. Whether they are from sugars or not doesn't matter for me.
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JesslanRose wrote: »No, I don't have any medical conditions that are related to sugar. This is what usually happens - Tonight I have 530 calories left, but am over my sugar by 6. When my sugar is over I usually don't eat anything more because whatever is in the house (healthy or not healthy) has sugar as well and I'd go over even more. Because I'm still hungry I'm just wondering if I should ignore the sugar counts and finish my calories. Thank you so much for your replies!!
Yes, definitely finish your calories and ignore the sugar count. If you are on the high side in your total carbs for the day, choose higher protein and/or fat items to fill in (like nuts, nut butters, eggs, meats, dairy, etc.), but really, you should just choose whatever sounds good to you and will fill you up.
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Patttience wrote: »this is a very good question. First off, my advice is don't bother using the sugar counter at all unless you are a diagnosed diabetic. Nobody else needs to know their sugar count.
What we all need to do is know our carb count. You should aim to keep your carb count low.
The reason why i say the sugar counter is a waste of your interest is a) because there are more important factors and b), unless diabetic the body manages blood sugar levels naturally. If you just eat with your macros in an appropriate balance, you do not need to be concered about the sugar counter.
the sugar counter makes no distinction between refined sugars and natural sugars and it is hte refined sugars only that you need to reduce. You can do this without any sort of counter at all. You need to put significant effort into reducing processed foods because these are the foods that have high levels of added/refined sugar.
Why is refined sugar a problem? Because it intensifies the flavours of foods so that you ar enot happy with normal healthy food and prefer processed foods. Because it causes some people to over eat. And when you over eat refined sugar, it start the ball rolling and keep it rolling endlessly towards weight gain and ill health. Overeating causes imbalances in the hormones signalling systems in teh body. For instance leptin. People who eat a lot tend to develop leptin resistance which means your body can't help you restrict your eating at all because you are always hungry.
Just reducing yoru calories will result in correcting of this problem however, so long as you eat a lot of refined sugar, you will struggle to reduce your calorie intake and maitain it long enough to lose the weight and reprogram yourself into better eating habits.
The other things that you need to be eating more and don't when you eat too much refined/added sguars are vegetables and fruit and high fibre foods. Because meat is a strong flavoured food, people tend not to have any difficult eating eating enough meat and protein when they are also eating a lot of very unhealthy foods but fruit and vegetables tend to be less exciting to the palate becuase they have plainer flavours. To enjoy them, they would need to be eaten with other highly flavoursome foods.
So when you cut out all the procesed foods, you can start to enjoy less intensely flavoured foods, though they still do need ot be prepared in such a way as to be tasty. Hence to be honest, steamed vegies and skinless chicken breast was never going to satisfy anyone in the long term.
There are ways you can cook vegetables and other foods that are tasty adn interesting. Its important the food you eat to replace all the processed foods you may have eaten in teh past is tasty. So that suggests that people need to apply themselves to their cooking. Thsi is probalby one of hte hardest things for most dieters to do in this day and age when a) many can't cook b) most people are very busy and too tired too cook.
But i promise you if you make the effort to prepare your own meals, avoid processed fodos as much as possible and increase your vegetables and fruit you will find losing weight easier. You will also find keeping hte weigh off long term more sustainable.
People need to make a life long commitment to eating better. Its not enough just to do it for long enough to get hte weight off. If you don't commit to ongoing change, you will get fat again.
No. Just...no.0 -
While you're likely to be healthier if you find more nutritious things to eat, sugar won't keep you from losing weight, if you eat at a deficit.0
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If you are eating nothing but sweets I would try to switch your diet to include more nutritious foods. I am always way over in sugar but eat 90% healthy stuff (fruit has a lot of sugar in it) and have no medical issues so I do not worry about it. You will lose weight as long as you keep a deficit - but your mood will be drastically effected by what food choices you make.0
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Patttience wrote: »this is a very good question. First off, my advice is don't bother using the sugar counter at all unless you are a diagnosed diabetic. Nobody else needs to know their sugar count.
What we all need to do is know our carb count. You should aim to keep your carb count low.
The reason why i say the sugar counter is a waste of your interest is a) because there are more important factors and b), unless diabetic the body manages blood sugar levels naturally. If you just eat with your macros in an appropriate balance, you do not need to be concered about the sugar counter.
the sugar counter makes no distinction between refined sugars and natural sugars and it is hte refined sugars only that you need to reduce. You can do this without any sort of counter at all. You need to put significant effort into reducing processed foods because these are the foods that have high levels of added/refined sugar.
Why is refined sugar a problem? Because it intensifies the flavours of foods so that you ar enot happy with normal healthy food and prefer processed foods. Because it causes some people to over eat. And when you over eat refined sugar, it start the ball rolling and keep it rolling endlessly towards weight gain and ill health. Overeating causes imbalances in the hormones signalling systems in teh body. For instance leptin. People who eat a lot tend to develop leptin resistance which means your body can't help you restrict your eating at all because you are always hungry.
Just reducing yoru calories will result in correcting of this problem however, so long as you eat a lot of refined sugar, you will struggle to reduce your calorie intake and maitain it long enough to lose the weight and reprogram yourself into better eating habits.
The other things that you need to be eating more and don't when you eat too much refined/added sguars are vegetables and fruit and high fibre foods. Because meat is a strong flavoured food, people tend not to have any difficult eating eating enough meat and protein when they are also eating a lot of very unhealthy foods but fruit and vegetables tend to be less exciting to the palate becuase they have plainer flavours. To enjoy them, they would need to be eaten with other highly flavoursome foods.
So when you cut out all the procesed foods, you can start to enjoy less intensely flavoured foods, though they still do need ot be prepared in such a way as to be tasty. Hence to be honest, steamed vegies and skinless chicken breast was never going to satisfy anyone in the long term.
There are ways you can cook vegetables and other foods that are tasty adn interesting. Its important the food you eat to replace all the processed foods you may have eaten in teh past is tasty. So that suggests that people need to apply themselves to their cooking. Thsi is probalby one of hte hardest things for most dieters to do in this day and age when a) many can't cook b) most people are very busy and too tired too cook.
But i promise you if you make the effort to prepare your own meals, avoid processed fodos as much as possible and increase your vegetables and fruit you will find losing weight easier. You will also find keeping hte weigh off long term more sustainable.
People need to make a life long commitment to eating better. Its not enough just to do it for long enough to get hte weight off. If you don't commit to ongoing change, you will get fat again.
I agree with most of what you've said about overconsumption of sugar crowding out more nutrient dense foods, and the fact that hyperpalatable processed foods can encourage eating past physical need, but I am curious as to why you limit carbs.
Is it just to ensure that there are calories left over for essential fats and protein, or do you believe that moderate to high carbohydrate consumption is inherently unhealthy or somehow not conducive to weight loss? I assume you mean the total carb count as per MFP tracking, which includes fruit whole grains, etc? I ask because I am genuinely interested, not to necessarily contradict or challenge your choice.0 -
Patttience wrote: »this is a very good question. First off, my advice is don't bother using the sugar counter at all unless you are a diagnosed diabetic. Nobody else needs to know their sugar count.
What we all need to do is know our carb count. You should aim to keep your carb count low.
The reason why i say the sugar counter is a waste of your interest is a) because there are more important factors and b), unless diabetic the body manages blood sugar levels naturally. If you just eat with your macros in an appropriate balance, you do not need to be concered about the sugar counter.
the sugar counter makes no distinction between refined sugars and natural sugars and it is hte refined sugars only that you need to reduce. You can do this without any sort of counter at all. You need to put significant effort into reducing processed foods because these are the foods that have high levels of added/refined sugar.
Why is refined sugar a problem? Because it intensifies the flavours of foods so that you ar enot happy with normal healthy food and prefer processed foods. Because it causes some people to over eat. And when you over eat refined sugar, it start the ball rolling and keep it rolling endlessly towards weight gain and ill health. Overeating causes imbalances in the hormones signalling systems in teh body. For instance leptin. People who eat a lot tend to develop leptin resistance which means your body can't help you restrict your eating at all because you are always hungry.
Just reducing yoru calories will result in correcting of this problem however, so long as you eat a lot of refined sugar, you will struggle to reduce your calorie intake and maitain it long enough to lose the weight and reprogram yourself into better eating habits.
The other things that you need to be eating more and don't when you eat too much refined/added sguars are vegetables and fruit and high fibre foods. Because meat is a strong flavoured food, people tend not to have any difficult eating eating enough meat and protein when they are also eating a lot of very unhealthy foods but fruit and vegetables tend to be less exciting to the palate becuase they have plainer flavours. To enjoy them, they would need to be eaten with other highly flavoursome foods.
So when you cut out all the procesed foods, you can start to enjoy less intensely flavoured foods, though they still do need ot be prepared in such a way as to be tasty. Hence to be honest, steamed vegies and skinless chicken breast was never going to satisfy anyone in the long term.
There are ways you can cook vegetables and other foods that are tasty adn interesting. Its important the food you eat to replace all the processed foods you may have eaten in teh past is tasty. So that suggests that people need to apply themselves to their cooking. Thsi is probalby one of hte hardest things for most dieters to do in this day and age when a) many can't cook b) most people are very busy and too tired too cook.
But i promise you if you make the effort to prepare your own meals, avoid processed fodos as much as possible and increase your vegetables and fruit you will find losing weight easier. You will also find keeping hte weigh off long term more sustainable.
People need to make a life long commitment to eating better. Its not enough just to do it for long enough to get hte weight off. If you don't commit to ongoing change, you will get fat again.
I seriously haven't had enough coffee to make it through all this drivel.
BUT- I did catch that 1.) sugar doesn't matter.
wait- back track
processed sugar matters.
did I get that right??-5 -
Swap the sugar out for fiber and track fiber instead. Fiber is good for your colon and helps you feel full for a longer time (but if you need to increase your intake, do it slowly to avoid bloating and farting.) If you eat a lot of fruit, you're going to exceed that sugar thing almost daily, so just get rid of it.
If you want to eat healthy, check this out: http://cdn1.sph.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/30/2013/04/HEPApr2013.jpg
COLON BLOW!0 -
Its all personal preference. For me personally, I watch my sugar because if I eat a lot of it, I get horrible aches and pains in my joints. This is from trial and errors on my part. After three months of really limiting it, I don't crave candy or desserts that much. But if I do,I have a small amount and I just watch my sugar intake more closely the next couple of days and drink more water than normal. Seems to help me flush the system faster. Again, its all personal.0
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Patttience wrote: »What we all need to do is know our carb count. You should aim to keep your carb count low.
This is only true for some people, not everyone. Some need to keep their carb count low for medical reasons. Some prefer to keep their carb count low because they feel more satisfied with their food that way. It doesn't matter for most.
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4bettermenow wrote: »Its all personal preference. For me personally, I watch my sugar because if I eat a lot of it, I get horrible aches and pains in my joints. This is from trial and errors on my part. After three months of really limiting it, I don't crave candy or desserts that much. But if I do,I have a small amount and I just watch my sugar intake more closely the next couple of days and drink more water than normal. Seems to help me flush the system faster. Again, its all personal.
I found that I no longer get nighttime leg cramps since I reduced my carbs (per doctor's orders). I am eating reduced carb, not low carb (35% of my total), and the couple of times I really loaded up on carbs I have had the cramps in the middle of the night. This is me and how they affect my body. I would never try to tell someone that they need to reduce carbs. I leave that to their doctor if the MD feels it is necessary.
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herrspoons wrote: »Patttience wrote: »What we all need to do is know our carb count. You should aim to keep your carb count low.
No.
Also explain in detail how the body metabolises refined sugar as opposed to naturally occurring sugars in fruit etc.
I also question that assertion, but I am open to any evidence that I might be unaware of. I do not and have never limited my overall carbohydrate intake. (with the exception of brief ketogenic periods intended to shed water weight for weigh-ins) I have not yet found evidence of its usefulness.
To answer your question about refined sugar, I don't claim to be an expert, but I believe the following to be generally accepted as true.
1. The sugar in fruits and whole foods is bound with fibre, which makes it harder to break down. It is released into the bloodstream more slowly.
2. A large, sudden influx of sugar into the bloodstream causes sharply increased levels of insulin to be secreted by the pancreas. This produces an overcompensation effect, which will actually cause sugar levels to drop faster and more steeply than in the presence of small amounts of insulin rover time.
3. Low sugar (may or may not drop to abnormal or hypoglycaemic levels) causes increased hunger and a craving for more sugars to try to restore balance. This leads to feeding that would not have otherwise occurred.
The sugar itself is utilized in the same way once it is in the bloodstream, but the variation in insulin response can cause increased feelings of hunger, so it can make dieting more difficult. In other words, your muscles don't care where the sugar came from, but your stomach might.
I think that this could be one possible argument in favour of whole foods over refined sugar. I don't think sugar is bad: I don't even think refined sugar is a problem in moderation. I just think the process described above is an example of how moderation, especially with refined sugar, is easier said than done. If you have an iron will, or don't often feel hungry, you probably don't need to worry about refined sugar as long as you are meeting your other nutritional needs. For mere mortals, it's something that might be worth considering as a way to decrease hunger.
FWIW, I have read in the popular media and some diet books about increased insulin affecting fat storage, but since I haven't really investigated it myself using reputable sources, I don't have any opinion. Just putting it out there as a possible avenue for further research.0 -
MakePeasNotWar wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Patttience wrote: »What we all need to do is know our carb count. You should aim to keep your carb count low.
No.
Also explain in detail how the body metabolises refined sugar as opposed to naturally occurring sugars in fruit etc.
I also question that assertion, but I am open to any evidence that I might be unaware of. I do not and have never limited my overall carbohydrate intake. (with the exception of brief ketogenic periods intended to shed water weight for weigh-ins) I have not yet found evidence of its usefulness.
To answer your question about refined sugar, I don't claim to be an expert, but I believe the following to be generally accepted as true.
1. The sugar in fruits and whole foods is bound with fibre, which makes it harder to break down. It is released into the bloodstream more slowly.
2. A large, sudden influx of sugar into the bloodstream causes sharply increased levels of insulin to be secreted by the pancreas. This produces an overcompensation effect, which will actually cause sugar levels to drop faster and more steeply than in the presence of small amounts of insulin rover time.
3. Low sugar (may or may not drop to abnormal or hypoglycaemic levels) causes increased hunger and a craving for more sugars to try to restore balance. This leads to feeding that would not have otherwise occurred.
The sugar itself is utilized in the same way once it is in the bloodstream, but the variation in insulin response can cause increased feelings of hunger, so it can make dieting more difficult. In other words, your muscles don't care where the sugar came from, but your stomach might.
I think that this could be one possible argument in favour of whole foods over refined sugar. I don't think sugar is bad: I don't even think refined sugar is a problem in moderation. I just think the process described above is an example of how moderation, especially with refined sugar, is easier said than done. If you have an iron will, or don't often feel hungry, you probably don't need to worry about refined sugar as long as you are meeting your other nutritional needs. For mere mortals, it's something that might be worth considering as a way to decrease hunger.
FWIW, I have read in the popular media and some diet books about increased insulin affecting fat storage, but since I haven't really investigated it myself using reputable sources, I don't have any opinion. Just putting it out there as a possible avenue for further research.
That may be true if you eat in a vacuum. Most foods with refined sugar contain fat, which also delays the digestion of sugar. Also, combinations of foods will provide the fiber or fat necessary to slow digestion and keep blood sugar in check.
Barring medical conditions, a normal person will never notice changes in blood sugar.0 -
MakePeasNotWar wrote: »
To answer your question about refined sugar, I don't claim to be an expert, but I believe the following to be generally accepted as true.
1. The sugar in fruits and whole foods is bound with fibre, which makes it harder to break down. It is released into the bloodstream more slowly.
2. A large, sudden influx of sugar into the bloodstream causes sharply increased levels of insulin to be secreted by the pancreas. This produces an overcompensation effect, which will actually cause sugar levels to drop faster and more steeply than in the presence of small amounts of insulin rover time.
3. Low sugar (may or may not drop to abnormal or hypoglycaemic levels) causes increased hunger and a craving for more sugars to try to restore balance. This leads to feeding that would not have otherwise occurred.
The sugar itself is utilized in the same way once it is in the bloodstream, but the variation in insulin response can cause increased feelings of hunger, so it can make dieting more difficult. In other words, your muscles don't care where the sugar came from, but your stomach might.
You are using the term "refined sugar" when you really are referring to sugar without fiber. High fiber breads are made with refined sugar. Their effect on the body is the same as the sugar in fruit. Honey is not a refined sugar, but its effect is the same as any sugar eaten without being accompanied by fiber.
This is the biggest problem with the anti-sugar crowd. They often don't take the diet as a whole into consideration. If someone eats a well balanced meal with a reasonable amount of fiber and ends it with a sweet, that sweet will not spike the blood sugar like it might if eaten in isolation. Many also say that naturally occurring sugars (like honey, agave nectar, and maple syrup) are better for you than cane, beet, or corn sugar when it doesn't matter.
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If you only eat pure sugar you can lose tons of weight0
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BobPickle123456789 wrote: »If you only eat pure sugar you can lose tons of weight
Above ground or below ground?
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This is the biggest problem with the anti-sugar crowd. They often don't take the diet as a whole into consideration. If someone eats a well balanced meal with a reasonable amount of fiber and ends it with a sweet, that sweet will not spike the blood sugar like it might if eaten in isolation. Many also say that naturally occurring sugars (like honey, agave nectar, and maple syrup) are better for you than cane, beet, or corn sugar when it doesn't matter. - earlnabby
Yes, yes and yes. So many well-meaning people think to advise me on "good sugar" and "bad sugar" when a diabetic knows full well it doesn't matter to our metabolism.0 -
MakePeasNotWar wrote: »
To answer your question about refined sugar, I don't claim to be an expert, but I believe the following to be generally accepted as true.
1. The sugar in fruits and whole foods is bound with fibre, which makes it harder to break down. It is released into the bloodstream more slowly.
2. A large, sudden influx of sugar into the bloodstream causes sharply increased levels of insulin to be secreted by the pancreas. This produces an overcompensation effect, which will actually cause sugar levels to drop faster and more steeply than in the presence of small amounts of insulin rover time.
3. Low sugar (may or may not drop to abnormal or hypoglycaemic levels) causes increased hunger and a craving for more sugars to try to restore balance. This leads to feeding that would not have otherwise occurred.
The sugar itself is utilized in the same way once it is in the bloodstream, but the variation in insulin response can cause increased feelings of hunger, so it can make dieting more difficult. In other words, your muscles don't care where the sugar came from, but your stomach might.
You are using the term "refined sugar" when you really are referring to sugar without fiber. High fiber breads are made with refined sugar. Their effect on the body is the same as the sugar in fruit. Honey is not a refined sugar, but its effect is the same as any sugar eaten without being accompanied by fiber.
This is the biggest problem with the anti-sugar crowd. They often don't take the diet as a whole into consideration. If someone eats a well balanced meal with a reasonable amount of fiber and ends it with a sweet, that sweet will not spike the blood sugar like it might if eaten in isolation. Many also say that naturally occurring sugars (like honey, agave nectar, and maple syrup) are better for you than cane, beet, or corn sugar when it doesn't matter.
Yes, that is what I meant. I was thinking of "sugar processed to remove the fibre", but failed to consider that some natural sugars contain no fibre in the first place, and that fibre-depleted sugars, when combined with fibre or fat, will not enter the system as quickly.
Thanks for pointing that out. I think a lot of the disagreements people have on this site stem from poor word choice more than an actual difference in philosophy.0 -
tigersword wrote: »MakePeasNotWar wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Patttience wrote: »What we all need to do is know our carb count. You should aim to keep your carb count low.
No.
Also explain in detail how the body metabolises refined sugar as opposed to naturally occurring sugars in fruit etc.
I also question that assertion, but I am open to any evidence that I might be unaware of. I do not and have never limited my overall carbohydrate intake. (with the exception of brief ketogenic periods intended to shed water weight for weigh-ins) I have not yet found evidence of its usefulness.
To answer your question about refined sugar, I don't claim to be an expert, but I believe the following to be generally accepted as true.
1. The sugar in fruits and whole foods is bound with fibre, which makes it harder to break down. It is released into the bloodstream more slowly.
2. A large, sudden influx of sugar into the bloodstream causes sharply increased levels of insulin to be secreted by the pancreas. This produces an overcompensation effect, which will actually cause sugar levels to drop faster and more steeply than in the presence of small amounts of insulin rover time.
3. Low sugar (may or may not drop to abnormal or hypoglycaemic levels) causes increased hunger and a craving for more sugars to try to restore balance. This leads to feeding that would not have otherwise occurred.
The sugar itself is utilized in the same way once it is in the bloodstream, but the variation in insulin response can cause increased feelings of hunger, so it can make dieting more difficult. In other words, your muscles don't care where the sugar came from, but your stomach might.
I think that this could be one possible argument in favour of whole foods over refined sugar. I don't think sugar is bad: I don't even think refined sugar is a problem in moderation. I just think the process described above is an example of how moderation, especially with refined sugar, is easier said than done. If you have an iron will, or don't often feel hungry, you probably don't need to worry about refined sugar as long as you are meeting your other nutritional needs. For mere mortals, it's something that might be worth considering as a way to decrease hunger.
FWIW, I have read in the popular media and some diet books about increased insulin affecting fat storage, but since I haven't really investigated it myself using reputable sources, I don't have any opinion. Just putting it out there as a possible avenue for further research.
That may be true if you eat in a vacuum. Most foods with refined sugar contain fat, which also delays the digestion of sugar. Also, combinations of foods will provide the fiber or fat necessary to slow digestion and keep blood sugar in check.
Barring medical conditions, a normal person will never notice changes in blood sugar.
Acknowledged. I was looking at processed sugar as a stand-alone substance, which is not really very practical in terms of human nutrition. I tend to take things a bit too literally.
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