A Question About Sugar
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I am so confused. I want to know how you can prove disease states from health states without science and academics entering the picture.
I saw a lot of word salad tossed around basically saying that someone wants to talk about how they feel. Am I misreading things?0 -
Ok, I got it now. I initially did not realize exactly what CI meant.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Ok, so the real issue goes back to my second post on page 13 when I mentioned my misunderstanding of the meaning of CI. Now we should be in agreement, correct?ForecasterJason wrote: »
Wow, talk about splitting hairs. Take out the mention of body composition, and I said what one eats affects how hungry one would be, which would affect calorie intake. Unless hunger and fullness is not related to appetite, what part of that does not match up?ForecasterJason wrote: »
The interesting thing is that is almost exactly what I was trying to say a couple pages back and got shot down.Charlottesometimes23 wrote: »My point is simply that "calories in " is not the only variable, and cannot be considered independent of the composition of those calories.
I've read plenty of studies showing higher weight loss with increased protein, usually compared against a low base. Similarly there are overfeeding studies with constant excess calories and divergent weight gain results due to variable composition.
So the devotion to purely calories in is flawed. Which is why you see such variable results from reducing input. Although I accept it's more popular to just assume the measuring is wrong.
In terms of setting a deficit eating plan then yes I would say a high protein eater is likely to have a higher TDEE than a low protein eater but in the context of the +/- 10% estimation of BMR etc probably not a deal breaker. You need a lot of kit or a long time to know if you're in a calorie deficit.
it suggests (to me anyway) that different dietary components influence hunger/satiety signals and body composition, which could indirectly influence weight loss
no it is not.
you said appetite affects CICO ..it does NOT
CICO is a formula for calculating calories in vs calories out
appetite is how hungry one is ..
NO, we are not.
appetite has nothing to do with CI or CO side..
you figure out what you need on the CI side to cover the CO side…
here is a simple way to look at it..
Calories In - what you need to consume to get to x goal
calories out - daily burn rate based on age, height, weight, activity level.
CI + CO = CICO
tell me where appetite factors into that equation….
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reference for later0
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Some of our posts were deleted with no explanation. Why was that?0
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Charlottesometimes23 wrote: »Some of our posts were deleted with no explanation. Why was that?
I think the mods do that when they see them acquiring a lot of flags, but I am not sure...0 -
Charlottesometimes23 wrote: »Some of our posts were deleted with no explanation. Why was that?
I think the mods do that when they see them acquiring a lot of flags, but I am not sure...
I don't think that they had a lot of flags. I thought an explanation would be provided if posts were deleted.0 -
Charlottesometimes23 wrote: »Charlottesometimes23 wrote: »Some of our posts were deleted with no explanation. Why was that?
I think the mods do that when they see them acquiring a lot of flags, but I am not sure...
I don't think that they had a lot of flags. I thought an explanation would be provided if posts were deleted.
who knows..? The new system is not really a system …its more like confused anarchy where no one knows the rules...0 -
Charlottesometimes23 wrote: »Charlottesometimes23 wrote: »Some of our posts were deleted with no explanation. Why was that?
I think the mods do that when they see them acquiring a lot of flags, but I am not sure...
I don't think that they had a lot of flags. I thought an explanation would be provided if posts were deleted.
who knows..? The new system is not really a system …its more like confused anarchy where no one knows the rules...
Lol. Anarchy is good, but censorship makes me uncomfortable....and I like to know why....
I wonder if shelleygold asked to have them deleted.
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Charlottesometimes23 wrote: »Charlottesometimes23 wrote: »Charlottesometimes23 wrote: »Some of our posts were deleted with no explanation. Why was that?
I think the mods do that when they see them acquiring a lot of flags, but I am not sure...
I don't think that they had a lot of flags. I thought an explanation would be provided if posts were deleted.
who knows..? The new system is not really a system …its more like confused anarchy where no one knows the rules...
Lol. Anarchy is good, but censorship makes me uncomfortable....and I like to know why....
I wonder if shelleygold asked to have them deleted.
I have no issue with the new "wild west" mfp forums…its better than before when they gave out strikes for the most idiotic of reasons...0 -
I have gotten myself tangled in knots about sugar, but basically it comes down to "less sugar, less calories" and the less calories the easier it is to create an energy deficit. I have fruit but not too much as the sugar can creep up, particularly if you are having loads of fruit smoothies. I drink sugar free soda, which while others may not agree with me, it helps me to curb my sugar intake. Processed sugar is responsible for many health issues so try to avoid anything with more than 14% sugar.0
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I have gotten myself tangled in knots about sugar, but basically it comes down to "less sugar, less calories" and the less calories the easier it is to create an energy deficit. I have fruit but not too much as the sugar can creep up, particularly if you are having loads of fruit smoothies. I drink sugar free soda, which while others may not agree with me, it helps me to curb my sugar intake. Processed sugar is responsible for many health issues so try to avoid anything with more than 14% sugar.
Prepare your shield.0 -
I have gotten myself tangled in knots about sugar, but basically it comes down to "less sugar, less calories" and the less calories the easier it is to create an energy deficit. I have fruit but not too much as the sugar can creep up, particularly if you are having loads of fruit smoothies. I drink sugar free soda, which while others may not agree with me, it helps me to curb my sugar intake. Processed sugar is responsible for many health issues so try to avoid anything with more than 14% sugar.
LOL NO ..
where did you come up with 14% sugar???? so I guess ice cream is out then ...0 -
Diane,
That's great if you watch sugar for your own personal reasons, but you have made a blanket statement:Processed sugar is responsible for many health issues so try to avoid anything with more than 14% sugar.
While sugar restriction is necessary in certain health issues, such as diabetes, hyperglycemia, hypoglycemia, and the like, I don't believe sugar is not the actual cause but rather the body's inability to properly metabolize insulin. Diabetes runs like crazy in my family, and some of those diabetic family members were never big sugar eaters, but they still got diabetes.
Just in case I'm on the wrong track, what health issues are you referring to?
Where did you come up with 14% sugar?
Do you have peer reviewed studies to back up your opinion about sugar causing health issues and to eat only 14% sugar?0 -
I have gotten myself tangled in knots about sugar, but basically it comes down to "less sugar, less calories" and the less calories the easier it is to create an energy deficit. I have fruit but not too much as the sugar can creep up, particularly if you are having loads of fruit smoothies. I drink sugar free soda, which while others may not agree with me, it helps me to curb my sugar intake. Processed sugar is responsible for many health issues so try to avoid anything with more than 14% sugar.
Prepare your shield.
Mmmm....that's an interesting response.
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What about in certain situations such as allergies or digestive problems? Is the problem sugar itself or metabolizing insulin?Diane,
That's great if you watch sugar for your own personal reasons, but you have made a blanket statement:Processed sugar is responsible for many health issues so try to avoid anything with more than 14% sugar.
I don't believe sugar is not the actual cause but rather the body's inability to properly metabolize insulin.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »JoanaMHill wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »JoanaMHill wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermodynamics
"The first law of thermodynamics is a version of the law of conservation of energy, adapted for thermodynamic systems. The law of conservation of energy states that the total energy of an isolated system is constant; energy can be transformed from one form to another, but cannot be created or destroyed."
CICO is a valid concept in a lab setting where an isolated system can be created.
and we have the verdict of the troll account…
so I can only lose weight if I am isolated in a lab??????
I think what he's trying to say is that humans aren't machines so there's no way of knowing exactly how much you burn and eat. That being said, that doesn't invalidate CICO. Just take a look at any of the success threads.
Thanks JoanaMhill. CICO will always be a factor in weight loss.
barring no medical condition, it is the only factor..
I thought CEO's of software companies would know that….
Exactly. A car might run better on higher-grade gas, but it will still get you from point A to point b with the regular, cheapest kind most people buy. It's doing exactly what it should, as is a body in a calorie deficit.
I agree for a human being to be obese (30 or > BMI) there is one or more known or unknown medical condition before a body with want to be that heavy. There are many more hormones at play than just Vitamin D3 sends signals to the brain that correctly controls our body weight in people with no medical conditions.
People are not obese because they are lazy and eat too much. When we develop medical conditions that sap our energy or at least in my case when my energy went down I moved less and ate more to "get my energy up" but I just got fatter and had less energy.
A six month old baby is not obese because they are lazy and eat too much. They have a medical condition. No six year old obese kid wants to be obese. They have a medical condition.
I grew up on a farm and our herd of adult cows weighed about 1000 pounds each. Some were more thin and some were more thick. In all those years we never had that first cow get to 2000, 3000 or 4000 pounds.
For a 150 pound 15 year old boy to get to 300 later in life happens all of the time in humans now unlike 100 years ago.
A scientist will ask WHY will a human become morbid obese and for it to be happening around the globe at the same time?
Being obese is not 'normal' or the desire of the obese person. I think obese people did not start out as fat and lazy kids but something changed/went wrong with their health.
Wait, what??? Do you reread your posts before you hit submit?
Cows and humans are different animals. You really can't compare the two.
All the time? Really? So EVERY person gains 150lbs later in life?
And just because you read one D3 study (that was biased) does not mean its a contributing fact to gaining weight.
Man- you really are trying for that silliest things I've heard all day award, and seeing as I get some really fun drunk rambling at work, that takes amazing effort.0 -
I have gotten myself tangled in knots about sugar, but basically it comes down to "less sugar, less calories" and the less calories the easier it is to create an energy deficit. I have fruit but not too much as the sugar can creep up, particularly if you are having loads of fruit smoothies. I drink sugar free soda, which while others may not agree with me, it helps me to curb my sugar intake. Processed sugar is responsible for many health issues so try to avoid anything with more than 14% sugar.
Prepare your shield.
Mmmm....that's an interesting response.
Haha I catch on quick, also here's some reading for ya
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19150053
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12379575
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12716761
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17130210
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/52/5/1256.long (This repeats some of the points in the links above but also adds some more)
http://www.lef.org/Protocols/Health-Concerns/Chronic-Inflammation/Page-02
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Just a quick edit to say to Zhost, whose links I haven't read, that this was written prior to your posting and has nothing whatsoever to do with that. My post is just a general rant.
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I don't understand why it is necessary for the average person to have to come up with a "peer reviewed study" every time they post an opinion. And if they do post a study, it is never good enough. I had the Australian Government and Health Department supporting one of my claims, but nah, corrupt government, not good enough.
Give me strength! What about a bit of free speech, light discussion and a community working together to help others understand issues instead of ridicule and dictatorship.
If people want to reduce and moderate their sugar, I say "good for them" and believe me there will be no stupid study to back up my statement.0 -
I don't understand why it is necessary for the average person to have to come up with a "peer reviewed study" every time they post an opinion. And if they do post a study, it is never good enough. I had the Australian Government and Health Department supporting one of my claims, but nah, corrupt government, not good enough.
Give me strength! What about a bit of free speech, light discussion and a community working together to help others understand issues instead of ridicule and dictatorship.
If people want to reduce and moderate their sugar, I say "good for them" and believe me there will be no stupid study to back up my statement.
I only find studies because the stuff interests me, it might interest others as well. I support everyone's wanting to lose weight, however they chose to.0
This discussion has been closed.
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