Sweets when bulking?

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  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    LolBroScience wrote: »
    Sarauk2sf wrote: »
    DjinnMarie wrote: »
    LolBroScience wrote: »
    Bah, deleted. I'm not even going to bother.


    I already saw it.

    It's not that difficult. Choosing complex carbs over simple carbs gives me more sustained energy. (Scientifically proven) Which means more productive workouts in the gym. I don't fatigue as quickly. More lifting = more muscle growth.

    The sustained energy and less of a blood sugar drop also gives me more energy and less fatigue for daily activities. Would this not equate to a higher tdee and therefore less fat gain?

    All of this gives ME better results and is the easiest way for me to get the desired 1 to 1 ratio.

    Don't want to get into a huge debate about what works for you, coz, well, it works for you - but doesn't the context of the energy requirement matter? I don't want a slow acting carb when I am about to lift necessarily - I want a fast acting one. I get the concept of sustained energy - but it does not 'do it for me'. It also depends on your reaction to blood sugar variability. I actually get sluggish with slow acting carbs more than with fast acting ones from what I can tell (although I don't really pay it much attention to be honest).

    I agree 100%.

    Try cramming a ton of complex carbs down when your cals are near 4,000 Djinn. Not only does it get difficult to reach that eating number eating nutrient dense foods, but I'd rather go squat with two poptarts in my system as opposed to 800g of sweet potatoes or something.

    I had oatmeal over the weekend before I was supposed to lift (as opposed to my usual quest bar or pop tart or fruit or whatever) - ended up napping instead lol.
  • 3laine75
    3laine75 Posts: 3,070 Member
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    MrM27 wrote: »
    DjinnMarie wrote: »
    LolBroScience wrote: »
    Bah, deleted. I'm not even going to bother.


    I already saw it.

    It's not that difficult. Choosing complex carbs over simple carbs gives me more sustained energy. (Scientifically proven) Which means more productive workouts in the gym. I don't fatigue as quickly. More lifting = more muscle growth.

    The sustained energy and less of a blood sugar drop also gives me more energy and less fatigue for daily activities. Would this not equate to a higher tdee and therefore less fat gain?

    All of this gives ME better results and is the easiest way for me to get the desired 1 to 1 ratio.

    Maybe I'm not thinking this through at a higher level but are complex carbs really going to give us more energy while training?

    Let's say we're comparing single source of food. We take a serving of whole grain bread and a serving of white bread, are we taking into consideration the necessary insulin spikes required for growth?

    You're claiming you'd have more energy for daily activities and therefore a higher TDEE, what are we talking about in difference? 25, 50 calories?

    Maybe you already did but can you explain this 1 to 1 ratio?

    I'm multi tasking so my thoughts are jumbled, if you can follow great, if not let me know and I will rephrase.

    I must admitt, I seem to get more energy for lifting from complex carbs too (I save the good stuff for after work and training). It might be psychosomatic, but it definitely happens with me too.

    I think the 1:1 is fat to muscle?

    @djinnmarie: PMd you, feel like I caused all this :blush:

  • dieselbyte
    dieselbyte Posts: 733 Member
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    DjinnMarie wrote: »
    dieselbyte wrote: »
    DjinnMarie wrote: »
    LolBroScience wrote: »
    Bah, deleted. I'm not even going to bother.


    I already saw it.

    It's not that difficult. Choosing complex carbs over simple carbs gives me more sustained energy. (Scientifically proven) Which means more productive workouts in the gym. I don't fatigue as quickly. More lifting = more muscle growth.

    The sustained energy and less of a blood sugar drop also gives me more energy and less fatigue for daily activities. Would this not equate to a higher tdee and therefore less fat gain?

    All of this gives ME better results and is the easiest way for me to get the desired 1 to 1 ratio.

    Whatever floats your boat (seems more mental than anything though)... As stated earlier, you cannot alter your p-ratio. Genetics determines fat and muscle gain, not macros. You may THINK you are close to a 1:1 ratio, but unless you've done a dscan over points in your bulk, you have no way of knowing.



    You forgot to mention that Your P ratio isn't 100% genetic. 15-20% of your p ratio is determined by how you eat, how you train etc.

    If macros had nothing to do with your p ratio, then theoretically none of would be worried about our protein intake and could just bulk on carbs.

    No, the primary determinant of P ratio is genetics (overall physiology and body fat percentage). Training and diet plays a role for sure, but the point is you aren't gaining more muscle because you choose complex carbs over simple carbs (when I stated macros, I meant make-up of particular macros - in this case carbs). Again, your argument seems largely psychosomatic...
  • tigersword
    tigersword Posts: 8,059 Member
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    DjinnMarie wrote: »
    AKDonF wrote: »
    In the high carb/low fat vs. low carb/high fat debate here is a study that is worth a read that supports high carb for the purpose of bulking:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20489032.

    I agree that you should do what works best individually and if high fat gets you to your goals, then have at it. But carbs are the preferential energy source of the body and are very, very rarely converted to fat through de nova lipogenesis (at least in humans).

    I'm not anti carb. I'm pro complex carb. Sweets are not complex carbs.

    Speaking anecdotally, if I switch my whole grain bread to cookies, keeping calories constant, my lifts suffer. When I'm cutting, keeping all activity the same (running on a treadmill at the same speed for the same distance) and calories the same, if I were to switch my whole grain toast to a cookie, I lose less fat. (I still lose weight, just not as much). I can't control for lifts while in a calorie deficit since my lifts always suffer while cutting. But they seem to suffer MORE when I choose sweets over toast. I understand that correlation is not causation and there may be other factors that indeed may be all in my head, but I doubt it.

    Simply stated... I get better results from bulking and cutting when I get my calories from mainly complex carbs over simple carbs. Take from that what you will.

    Changing out whole grain bread for cookies Also adds extra fat to your day, which is a definite confounder when trying to specifically blame the carbs.

    As for macros affecting TDEE. That's a completely insignificant amount. Higher carb diets will have a higher TDEE than a lower carb diet, due to carbs requiring more calories to digest than fat, but even then, going from an extremely high carb diet to an extremely low carb diet, you're talking a difference of a couple dozen calories. It's not going to make any kind of difference, in all reality, as the nutritional information that we base our calories in numbers on can't be that precise.
  • AKDonF
    AKDonF Posts: 235 Member
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    You forgot to mention that Your P ratio isn't 100% genetic. 15-20% of your p ratio is determined by how you eat, how you train etc.

    If macros had nothing to do with your p ratio, then theoretically none of would be worried about our protein intake and could just bulk on carbs.
    [/quote]

    No, the primary determinant of P ratio is genetics (overall physiology and body fat percentage). Training and diet plays a role for sure, but the point is you aren't gaining more muscle because you choose complex carbs over simple carbs (when I stated macros, I meant make-up of particular macros - in this case carbs). Again, your argument seems largely psychosomatic...[/quote]

    It is questionable whether or not training and diet have any appreciable effect on P-ratio. It is genetic and factors such as leanness may change how efficient your personal P-ratio is, you can't manipulate the effect. Simply put, YOU cannot cause your body to change the way it stores fat and muscle to any appreciable degree without certain drugs. If someone has a study showing otherwise, please submit it.
  • nicsflyingcircus
    nicsflyingcircus Posts: 2,432 Member
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    This thread made me go make homemade brownies: nothing but butter, sugar, flour, chocolate, chocolate chips, eggs and a little vanilla and salt with homemade buttercream chocolate frosting.

    THANK YOU!
  • ForecasterJason
    ForecasterJason Posts: 2,577 Member
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    nicsflyingcircus wrote: »
    This thread made me go make homemade brownies: nothing but butter, sugar, flour, chocolate, chocolate chips, eggs and a little vanilla and salt with homemade buttercream chocolate frosting.

    THANK YOU!
    Nice. I haven't made them for myself in a long time, but may consider doing so again not far into the future.

  • nicsflyingcircus
    nicsflyingcircus Posts: 2,432 Member
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    ForecasterJason wrote: »
    nicsflyingcircus wrote: »
    This thread made me go make homemade brownies: nothing but butter, sugar, flour, chocolate, chocolate chips, eggs and a little vanilla and salt with homemade buttercream chocolate frosting.

    THANK YOU!
    Nice. I haven't made them for myself in a long time, but may consider doing so again not far into the future.

    My 9yo declared them "The best brownies I have ever eaten!" lol. I'll take it.

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