How to be ok with it all?
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I'm a dealmaker. I also recognize that my subconscious can be much sneakier than my conscious mind.
If I'm going to feed a food craving, I give myself -exactly- what I want. Last week, I had an utterly emotional craving for a greasy burger. Preferably on a donut.
So I sat and imagined my burger. What would make it perfect? I mentally built and rebuilt that dinner until every component was exactly what answered the craving and made my mind smile. I made a deal. I could have that exact meal, but until dinnertime I had to try to cheer myself up, because I deserved to have that meal at the end of a good day, not a lousy one.
I spent the day doing things that I know cheer me up when I'm down. Then I ate exactly what I wanted. But because I wasn't an emotional mess anymore - I wasn't stuffing my emotions down as fast as I could with food. It was just an amazingly indulgent, sensually pleasurable meal.
And the next day, I went back to my usual routine. For me, in that situation - good mental hygiene was more important than calories. On another day I might have used some other strategy.
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TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »0somuchbetter0 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »0somuchbetter0 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »0somuchbetter0 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »0somuchbetter0 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »I get that this all gets tedious; I’ve been on this site logging for over 600 days, and sometimes there are things I’d rather be doing with those 10-15 minutes a day it takes to log my food and exercise. But look at it from this big picture perspective – our bodies seek fattening food and store fat because our prehistoric selves went most of their lives without knowing where and when their next meal would come from. Imagine scratching out your existence day in and day out, scavenging for food, just a bad luck incident or two away from starving to death or being weakened by hunger to the point where you would get killed by predators, either animals or humans. Now fast forward thousands of years, and appreciate the nature of your burden – you are surrounded by such an overabundance of food resources that you actually have to force yourself to limit how much you eat!
Appreciate where we are in terms of human development, eat one of those delicious cakes (but not the entire box), log it, and enjoy the rest of your day as a contemporary, civilized human being
Do you really think that it would make any difference if our "prehistoric selves" had had an abundance of food? There is no evidence to support such a notion.
I’m a little taken aback that you don’t know the basic evolutionary principles behind these types of biological characteristics.
We don't know much about our "prehistoric selves" other than finding a few old bones. Everything else is pretty much speculation, and we certainly don't know what would have happened if our "prehistoric selves" had had an abundance of food. Perhaps they all would've gotten fat and died of heart failure.
We don't have to go back in time to learn about our prehistoric selves. I've worked in international development for 20 years. Look at some of the global indicators for malnutrition in the poorest communities worldwide -- there's all the evidence you need.
So we're fat because children in Africa are starving?
*sigh* No. I don't understand why you say we don't have evidence about how humans lived in prehistory when there are many living examples today of people living exactly the way we lived during the Stone Age.
I don't have a problem with that, but the original claim was that prehistoric man was somehow different from what we are today, but because they couldn't find enough food, they evolved into a being that stores more fat than is required. There is not evidence to support the claim that they didn't already have the ability to store fact and certainly no evidence to claim that if they were overfed that they would lose the ability to store fat.
I don't think that's the argument. The idea is more like: prehistoric man lived under conditions where food was scarce, so being able to store fat efficiently aided in survival, and those with that ability were more likely to live and pass on their genes than those who did not tend to store fat well/deal well with conditions of scarcity.
In theory, if we spent a lot of time under conditions of surplus where tending to become obese led you to be less able to survive and pass on your genes, natural selection would select against those who seemed inclined to become obese IF the effect was to kill them off before they reproduced or made it less likely that their children would survive until adulthood (the latter being more likely in a primitive world with a problem with a surplus of calories plus inactivity).
What you stated sounds like Lamarckianism.
My point is that we don't know what Stone Age man was like. He could've been just like us, for all we know. Actually, considering that the animals in store fat also, it is most likely that they were like us. The problem with thinking that natural selection would lead to less obesity is that obesity tends to get worse as people age, so the children of the obese are likely to survive anyway.
Of course they were like us. They were humans too. Evolution doesn't change that fast. Humans 200,000 years ago and humans today have the same ability to store fat if we consume too many calories. The fact is, there are many people today who live much like humans lived 200,000 years ago and biologically they're no different than you and me. I don't know why you're even bothering to argue this point. It's ridiculous.
Because someone else made the claim that we're fat because Stone Age man had to look for food. I wanted to point out that it doesn't make any sense.
No one said that.
Do you not think that is what was said with the following statement? "But look at it from this big picture perspective – our bodies seek fattening food and store fat because our prehistoric selves went most of their lives without knowing where and when their next meal would come from."
That sure looks like it to me.
You do realize that "prehistoric selves" goes back a long, long way, beyond man to whatever little creatures we evolved from, right?
Man evolved over the course of millions of years from simpler life forms through evolution. Part of that evolutionary path entailed the survival of creatures that were able to store fat to survive the inevitable periods of famine experienced by animals and later, hunter / gatherer neanderthals and humans. As mankind evolved, it became less susceptible to environmental threats like droughts, due to the emergence of agriculture and animal domestication, but this is only a recent development, it began maybe 12,000 years ago. Even then (and now in some parts of the world), droughts and war made for scarce resources, and the fat storing capability was still integral to survival.
Now fast forward to today, where billions of 1st world humans have an abundance of food, and no one need go any significant period of time without food if they choose not to. Many of us eat a tremendous quantity of food above what is required to survive, and this excess is stored as fat. Our digestive systems don’t have a calendar and don’t understand that it is 2015, but rather still thinks that it is 12,015 BC or 120,150 BC.
If you say so. I was trying to avoid turning this into a religious discussion. I was really just trying to point out that it is better to take responsibility for one's own weight problem rather than blaming it on some ancestor that we know very little about.
I totally agree that each of us should take responsibility for our own weight problems rather than blaming it on someone or something else (except in the case of an obvious endocrine or metabolic disorder...but I digress).
The comments about prehistoric humans were simply an explanation about our biological ability to store fat if we take in excessive calories. No one was trying to "blame" cave men for the fact that we eat too much. It's a biological fact -- you said there was no evidence to prove this, since all we have of prehistoric humans is just "some old bones." We have a lot more than that. Ask any anthropologist, anatomist, archaeologist, geneticist, etc etc etc. Moreover, I pointed out that there are many humans alive today who live just as prehistoric humans did, and biologically they too store fat if they take in excessive calories. There's a whole world out there whose lives don't revolve around fast food and other first world conveniences. Besides, as others have pointed out, humans haven't changed much physically and biologically in 200,000 years. Evolution takes a lot longer than that.
This entire discussion has absolutely nothing to do with religion.0 -
This has turned into a excellent thread. My choice to post some of the bitching my negative inner voice does, seems to have really resonated with some people and alot of the advice here is golden.
Just so you have a bit more background. I was 16st 7lb, I got down to 11st 9lb, mum died and I crept back up to 14st over two years. I am only 5' 6" so still obese. Now back in the weight loss game and working on some of the old thought patterns that came back.
I have used postive visulization, goal setting, habit forming, affermations, vision boards, baby steps, hypnotherapy the list goes on and on. All of these tools work on each of us in different ways. Some days they are really effective and others not so much.
What I found was that alot of the tools worked on changing my mind to see the new positive /healthy me as something I wanted so badly I would be drawn to it like a magnet.
I guess I was looking for addtional tools to help when your negative inner voice has got the reins, taken over, is shouting "*kitten* is all I dont care" and is going for the car keys to head to the nearest store.
I have been given two tools by my therapist to use when its rearing its head.
But what I am asking is what you do when your 3 rounds into your fight with your inner demons. You've made sure you've eaten correctly so your blood sugar is ok. You have exercised, taken a walk to clear your head, meditated, you told it to take a hike and it's still on your case like a crazed stalker. You keep going, you ignore it, you do everything you can to not let it take over but your getting tired. There is only so much fight in you and you can feel yourself starting to wear down. At that point I find it's like I am a tiny voice in the back of its head instead of it being a tiny voice in the back of my head.
This is the point where I come unstuck. Somedays by the skin of my teeth I outlast it. Others it wins.
So for those of you that have expericaned something like what I described what do you do?
I took a lot of breaks. It took me 2ish years to lose 30 lbs. There would be times I'd eat around maintenance for weeks, even months. I'd still get on the scale to make sure I wasn't gaining and tried to make decent choices, but I wasn't logging either. It made me feel a lot less guilty about a bowl of pasta. Eventually I'd find a second wind and get back at it. (Side note: I have eating disorder issues and a lot of my breaks were when logging or burning a certain number of calories became an obsession. I hated logging and not being naturally skinny and whatnot, but I also panicked if I forgot to log a strawberry and cried on days I went over calories. Some people would fall off and never come back if they took breaks, but it was the most appropriate choice for me while I was working through my issues. I can log a bowl of pasta and not freak out now, so yay for improvement. Things get easier!)
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TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »0somuchbetter0 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »0somuchbetter0 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »0somuchbetter0 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »0somuchbetter0 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »I get that this all gets tedious; I’ve been on this site logging for over 600 days, and sometimes there are things I’d rather be doing with those 10-15 minutes a day it takes to log my food and exercise. But look at it from this big picture perspective – our bodies seek fattening food and store fat because our prehistoric selves went most of their lives without knowing where and when their next meal would come from. Imagine scratching out your existence day in and day out, scavenging for food, just a bad luck incident or two away from starving to death or being weakened by hunger to the point where you would get killed by predators, either animals or humans. Now fast forward thousands of years, and appreciate the nature of your burden – you are surrounded by such an overabundance of food resources that you actually have to force yourself to limit how much you eat!
Appreciate where we are in terms of human development, eat one of those delicious cakes (but not the entire box), log it, and enjoy the rest of your day as a contemporary, civilized human being
Do you really think that it would make any difference if our "prehistoric selves" had had an abundance of food? There is no evidence to support such a notion.
I’m a little taken aback that you don’t know the basic evolutionary principles behind these types of biological characteristics.
We don't know much about our "prehistoric selves" other than finding a few old bones. Everything else is pretty much speculation, and we certainly don't know what would have happened if our "prehistoric selves" had had an abundance of food. Perhaps they all would've gotten fat and died of heart failure.
We don't have to go back in time to learn about our prehistoric selves. I've worked in international development for 20 years. Look at some of the global indicators for malnutrition in the poorest communities worldwide -- there's all the evidence you need.
So we're fat because children in Africa are starving?
*sigh* No. I don't understand why you say we don't have evidence about how humans lived in prehistory when there are many living examples today of people living exactly the way we lived during the Stone Age.
I don't have a problem with that, but the original claim was that prehistoric man was somehow different from what we are today, but because they couldn't find enough food, they evolved into a being that stores more fat than is required. There is not evidence to support the claim that they didn't already have the ability to store fact and certainly no evidence to claim that if they were overfed that they would lose the ability to store fat.
I don't think that's the argument. The idea is more like: prehistoric man lived under conditions where food was scarce, so being able to store fat efficiently aided in survival, and those with that ability were more likely to live and pass on their genes than those who did not tend to store fat well/deal well with conditions of scarcity.
In theory, if we spent a lot of time under conditions of surplus where tending to become obese led you to be less able to survive and pass on your genes, natural selection would select against those who seemed inclined to become obese IF the effect was to kill them off before they reproduced or made it less likely that their children would survive until adulthood (the latter being more likely in a primitive world with a problem with a surplus of calories plus inactivity).
What you stated sounds like Lamarckianism.
My point is that we don't know what Stone Age man was like. He could've been just like us, for all we know. Actually, considering that the animals in store fat also, it is most likely that they were like us. The problem with thinking that natural selection would lead to less obesity is that obesity tends to get worse as people age, so the children of the obese are likely to survive anyway.
Of course they were like us. They were humans too. Evolution doesn't change that fast. Humans 200,000 years ago and humans today have the same ability to store fat if we consume too many calories. The fact is, there are many people today who live much like humans lived 200,000 years ago and biologically they're no different than you and me. I don't know why you're even bothering to argue this point. It's ridiculous.
Because someone else made the claim that we're fat because Stone Age man had to look for food. I wanted to point out that it doesn't make any sense.
No one said that.
Do you not think that is what was said with the following statement? "But look at it from this big picture perspective – our bodies seek fattening food and store fat because our prehistoric selves went most of their lives without knowing where and when their next meal would come from."
That sure looks like it to me.
You do realize that "prehistoric selves" goes back a long, long way, beyond man to whatever little creatures we evolved from, right?
Man evolved over the course of millions of years from simpler life forms through evolution. Part of that evolutionary path entailed the survival of creatures that were able to store fat to survive the inevitable periods of famine experienced by animals and later, hunter / gatherer neanderthals and humans. As mankind evolved, it became less susceptible to environmental threats like droughts, due to the emergence of agriculture and animal domestication, but this is only a recent development, it began maybe 12,000 years ago. Even then (and now in some parts of the world), droughts and war made for scarce resources, and the fat storing capability was still integral to survival.
Now fast forward to today, where billions of 1st world humans have an abundance of food, and no one need go any significant period of time without food if they choose not to. Many of us eat a tremendous quantity of food above what is required to survive, and this excess is stored as fat. Our digestive systems don’t have a calendar and don’t understand that it is 2015, but rather still thinks that it is 12,015 BC or 120,150 BC.
If you say so. I was trying to avoid turning this into a religious discussion. I was really just trying to point out that it is better to take responsibility for one's own weight problem rather than blaming it on some ancestor that we know very little about.
Who is avoiding responsibility? Who is blaming anyone? This is how we evolved, this is why we store fat. What we do with that knowledge is entirely up to the individual.0 -
Your love for yourself has to be greater than your love of food.0
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But what I am asking is what you do when your 3 rounds into your fight with your inner demons. You've made sure you've eaten correctly so your blood sugar is ok. You have exercised, taken a walk to clear your head, meditated, you told it to take a hike and it's still on your case like a crazed stalker. You keep going, you ignore it, you do everything you can to not let it take over but your getting tired. There is only so much fight in you and you can feel yourself starting to wear down. At that point I find it's like I am a tiny voice in the back of its head instead of it being a tiny voice in the back of my head.
This is the point where I come unstuck. Somedays by the skin of my teeth I outlast it. Others it wins.
So for those of you that have expericaned something like what I described what do you do?
Have you done CBT (Cognitive Behavior Therapy)? I have not but I have friends who have done it and it seems to be effective for people who have the 'bad voice' in their heads. It's a process where you learn to recognize the negative thoughts and practice replacing them with positive thoughts. Something to look into if you haven't already.
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hdrenollet wrote: »For me - fear was the key. I never really considered myself really overweight. I was at 225, but at 6' tall, it's not terrible. Sure, I had put on a few pounds since I started working an office job, but I like to eat... there's nothing wrong with that, right?
Well, everything was all fine and good until I went to see my doctor this past November. Before I knew it, I'm in having a biopsy done on my lymph nodes for possible cancer (luckily it came back benign, but still makes your mind work overtime), and my cholesterol is through the roof and I have to take Lipitor every day. None of this I should have to go through at 34 years old.
Heart disease runs in my family. My father died of a heart attack when he was 50, my mother has had 2 heart attacks (first one at 51) and a quadruple bypass. I got a lot left to do, and I don't know that I can accomplish everything I want to in the next 15 years...
So, December 23 is when I received the results of my biopsy and found out about my cholesterol... after I left the doctor that day I just sat in my car and made a decision right then that I'm fixing this... and NOW! No more excuses! I'm exercising, eating right, and doing everything I possibly can to make sure I get to see my kids grow up and live as long as I possibly can.
That's what it took for me, fear that I wasn't going to be here as long as I wanted to. Again, things I shouldn't have to think about at my age, but at least it got me motivated.
A health scare was it for me too. I found out I have a hereditary blood clotting disorder and my doctor said you have to get your weight in the healthy range to reduce your odds of developing clots (plus familial history of high blood pressure and heart disease). I finally stopped taking a doctor telling me I need to lose weight as an insult and starting seeing it for the medical advice that it was. I'm down a little over 30 pounds with more to go. I'm really unsure about a specific number for my weight, I'm more concerned with body fat % and am have a BodPod appointment on Thursday to see where I'm at now.0
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