lets debate MFP's so called heavy lifting trend

brandon0523

So as the night goes on people lack the ability to read?? The post I clearly quoted several times said "if you aren't going to lift heavy find a new hobby".. now again. This is advice we shouldn't be giving and it is a trend on here to tell people to lift heavy

So to clarify, as my reading and overall English skills are obviously horrible, your issue is not with lifting heavy but rsther with advice that suggests "Lift Heavy or GTFO!"?

yes sir

Wetcoaster

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/reps-per-set-for-optimal-growth.html

Putting it Together

And this leads us to our answer to my original question. For most people, 80-85% of maximum is roughly 5-8 repetitions there is variance in this between individuals and perhaps muscle groups (for example, some people find that they can get 12-15 repetitions at 85% of maximum in some leg movements).

Now let’s put that together with my comments about tension and fatigue from the earlier in the article.

Imagine that you put 95% on the bar, which will let most people get about 2 reps. You wouldn’t increase fiber recruitment (remember, it maxes at 80-85%) but you would drastically decrease any fatigue because you would be getting a lot less reps per set (and most people couldn’t do many sets of 2 at 90% so their total volume per workout would be much lower).

Or say you wanted to do 15 repetitions which, for most is about 70% of maximum. If you take it to failure, you will in fact end up recruiting all muscle fibers; however many of them (and this especially holds for the highest threshold fibers, the ones with the potential for the most growth) won’t have been recruited until near the very end. So those highest threshold fibers won’t be exposed to high tension and fatigue for very long.

In contrast, imagine that you work in the 5-8 rep range with 80-85% of maximum. First and foremost you will get full muscle fiber recruitment from the first repetition. Secondly, you will maximize fatigue/metabolic work/volume within that range. Basically, that range of reps and intensities is the one that will give an optimal balance of tension/recruitment and fatigue/metabolic work.

And that’s the answer that repeatedly comes up among people in the field who aren’t clueless: 5-8 repetitions. If you had to pick a single rep range to work at to optimize the growth response, it would 5-8 reps per set.

Which isn’t to say that there aren’t valid and valuable reasons to work in other repetition ranges, mind you. But that wasn’t the original context of my weird hypothetical.

AnvilHead

So as the night goes on people lack the ability to read?? The post I clearly quoted several times said "if you aren't going to lift heavy find a new hobby".. now again. This is advice we shouldn't be giving and it is a trend on here to tell people to lift heavy

And then you continued with the ranty mcranterson off topic rantiness.

that's the whole topic.. dont tell new people to lift heavy.

Even though "heavy" is a relative term to each person? Nobody's telling a newbie to shoulder up three plates in the squat rack when they've never lifted before. Bodyweight squats may be "heavy" for a newbie.

Otterluv

So as the night goes on people lack the ability to read?? The post I clearly quoted several times said "if you aren't going to lift heavy find a new hobby".. now again. This is advice we shouldn't be giving and it is a trend on here to tell people to lift heavy

And then you continued with the ranty mcranterson off topic rantiness.

that's the whole topic.. dont tell new people to lift heavy.

And now please explain why.

Yes, please. We have already clearly explained that "lifting heavy" is a very individualized term. For me it will be at one weight, for a new lifter it will be a lower weight. Both are heavy to the person lifting it. Form is also discussed at length in threads. I have never heard anyone say to a new lifter "go squat 300 lbs".

brandon0523

So as the night goes on people lack the ability to read?? The post I clearly quoted several times said "if you aren't going to lift heavy find a new hobby".. now again. This is advice we shouldn't be giving and it is a trend on here to tell people to lift heavy

And then you continued with the ranty mcranterson off topic rantiness.

that's the whole topic.. dont tell new people to lift heavy.

Don't tell them to do 5 x 5 or don't tell them to lift heavy according to your definition?

And that wasn't the rantiness I was talking about btw.

5x5 is fine. As it works the weights up.. I'm saying you don't want to start heavy because you have to let your body get accustomed to using the weights and the new motions

Sarauk2sf

So as the night goes on people lack the ability to read?? The post I clearly quoted several times said "if you aren't going to lift heavy find a new hobby".. now again. This is advice we shouldn't be giving and it is a trend on here to tell people to lift heavy

So to clarify, as my reading and overall English skills are obviously horrible, your issue is not with lifting heavy but rsther with advice that suggests "Lift Heavy or GTFO!"?

yes sir

IF, and I repeat IF you had said that you were annoyed with people who push 5 x 5 type programs on people who do not want to do it or do not have the resource to do it, then I would totally agree with you.

Bu what on earth was with all the other superfluous ranting about what is lifting heavy? Calling it cardio. I mean, hyperbole much?

mdearmond

So as the night goes on people lack the ability to read?? The post I clearly quoted several times said "if you aren't going to lift heavy find a new hobby".. now again. This is advice we shouldn't be giving and it is a trend on here to tell people to lift heavy

And then you continued with the ranty mcranterson off topic rantiness.

that's the whole topic.. dont tell new people to lift heavy.

Even though "heavy" is a relative term to each person? Nobody's telling a newbie to shoulder up three plates in the squat rack when they've never lifted before. Bodyweight squats may be "heavy" for a newbie.

this.

Sarauk2sf

So as the night goes on people lack the ability to read?? The post I clearly quoted several times said "if you aren't going to lift heavy find a new hobby".. now again. This is advice we shouldn't be giving and it is a trend on here to tell people to lift heavy

And then you continued with the ranty mcranterson off topic rantiness.

that's the whole topic.. dont tell new people to lift heavy.

Don't tell them to do 5 x 5 or don't tell them to lift heavy according to your definition? 5x5 is fine..that's no problem.. as it works the weights up.. I'm staying don't do heavy lifting as in as much as you can lift as a new person you have let your body get used to using the weights before tearing the **** out of them

And that wasn't the rantiness I was talking about btw.

Little confused as the quotes got messed up - but SL and other similar programs do work beginners up in weights.

ETA: reread, and less confused. I agree with you but I don't see anyone encouraging that here.

brandon0523

I edited it. The damn quote has gotten two pages long.. I didn't see where it ended

Cat_Lifts

I don't believe many MFPers are ushering people to just jump into something without any type of research, practice, and safety. If anything, most would encourage proper form and a healthy development into strengthening themselves. Plus, this is the Internet - you're always going to have a few that may spout out some bad info or advice.

'Lifting heavy' is seen as more of a term for weight training/lifting around here (at least how I look at it) and the more you work at it, you technically are "lifting heavy" (or heavier from when you initially started). Now, my heavy and your heavy are probably entirely different, and as mentioned before, we're not ushering people to just jump right into the same amount of weight usage, as say, someone who's been doing it for years. There have been some great results from people who have trained with weights and lifting, but there's also great results from people who do pilates, circuit training with lighter weights, swimming, Zumba, etc.

Some people are just passionate about the results they've seen or have gotten and want to share that with others, so they too can reach that same success, and whether or not weights is for them, then that's okay! But I wouldn't recommend dissuading people from lifting, how are they ever going to find out if it could benefit them or not if they don't try?

mrloserpunk

* I think op is confused with "heavy" in the name. Certainly, anyone can take up lifting at the right pace and with the right instruction. Already being fit isn't a prerequisite for lifting right?

taunto

Call me crazy but I thought heavy lifting was basically lifting in the 80% range of your 1RM. And I'm pretty sure stronglifts does that. Then again I'm a noob at lifting so feel free to correct me.

For physique composition and what heavy lifting can (and has) done for many on this site) please refer to this:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/987513-lifting-is-the-most-horrible-thing-to-a-woman-since-twiggy

Now that you know WHY heavy lifting is suggested so much on MFP, I partly agree with you. Heavy lifting is awesome but it is almost becoming a cult on MFP. But that is like any other thing. People like to push what they see as good onto others. On MFP, cardio and calisthenics are looked at as if its some *kitten* child. I can post names and pics of girls on my own Friends list who have gotten amazing results from cardio and calisthenics as heavy lifting. So yes, I get the dumb replies from members who without thinking says "heavy lift is your only option".

likitisplit

So as the night goes on people lack the ability to read?? The post I clearly quoted several times said "if you aren't going to lift heavy find a new hobby".. now again. This is advice we shouldn't be giving and it is a trend on here to tell people to lift heavy

And then you continued with the ranty mcranterson off topic rantiness.

that's the whole topic.. dont tell new people to lift heavy.

Don't tell them to do 5 x 5 or don't tell them to lift heavy according to your definition?

And that wasn't the rantiness I was talking about btw.

5x5 is fine. As it works the weights up.. I'm saying you don't want to start heavy because you have to let your body get accustomed to using the weights and the new motions

But none of the programs that get suggested on MFP as an example of "heavy lifting" advise people to start heavy.

There are also a million and a half runners on here. Many of whom have seen speed and stability gains from starting to use weights. Thousands of people taking gym classes, etc. A lot of people doing body weight exercises.

Once you've been on here awhile, you see the same challenges over and over again. And a lot of the results that people want have a lot to do with their underlying muscle mass. Don't confuse the drama with the golden underlying advice to be found in the forums.

phjorg1

I see this everywhere on this forum.. lift heavy blah blah I'm doing 5x5 strong lifts blah blah. I actually just seen someone say if you aren't going to lift heavy to find a new hobby.. wow... really.. cut your cardio and lift heavy to tone.. hmmmmm

My opinion.. 5x5 isn't lifting heavy. Anything more than reps to me is cardio. Heavy day for me is 8 sets of triples doubles and singles. I also don't thing you should push this so called "heavy lifting" on everyone.. that's stupid. Everyone's body is different and reacts different. Plus a new persons tendons and ligaments need to get accustomed to thus new life style and if you go pushing them to the max they will be hurt more than healthy.. to me I think we should let the advice to people actually come from people who know what they are doing and not from someone who just read this **** online.. you can go ahead and do what you want for yourself but please don't push your ignorance on others to get them hurt..

it's like you don't know 5x5 is a beginners template to lifting... you know, for beginners. So why are you worried about beginners doing it?

Sarauk2sf

So as the night goes on people lack the ability to read?? The post I clearly quoted several times said "if you aren't going to lift heavy find a new hobby".. now again. This is advice we shouldn't be giving and it is a trend on here to tell people to lift heavy

So to clarify, as my reading and overall English skills are obviously horrible, your issue is not with lifting heavy but rsther with advice that suggests "Lift Heavy or GTFO!"?
[/quote] yes sir
[/quote]

IF, and I repeat IF you had said that you were annoyed with people who push 5 x 5 type programs on people who do not want to do it or do not have the resource to do it, then I would totally agree with you.

Bu what on earth was with all the other superfluous ranting about what is lifting heavy? Calling it cardio. I mean, hyperbole much?
[/quote]

[/quote] says the guy giving work out advice
[/quote]


I assume you have seen this guy before



or this guy?

brandon0523

Call me crazy but I thought heavy lifting was basically lifting in the 80% range of your 1RM. And I'm pretty sure stronglifts does that. Then again I'm a noob at lifting so feel free to correct me.

For physique composition and what heavy lifting can (and has) done for many on this site) please refer to this:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/987513-lifting-is-the-most-horrible-thing-to-a-woman-since-twiggy

Now that you know WHY heavy lifting is suggested so much on MFP, I partly agree with you. Heavy lifting is awesome but it is almost becoming a cult on MFP. But that is like any other thing. People like to push what they see as good onto others. On MFP, cardio and calisthenics are looked at as if its some *kitten* child. I can post names and pics of girls on my own Friends list who have gotten amazing results from cardio and calisthenics as heavy lifting. So yes, I get the dumb replies from members who without thinking says "heavy lift is your only option".

this is it right here. One out of a bunch of people got it.. there are more than one way to skin a cat..

AnvilHead

Wait what... Are you saying there are many people on mfp who give advice and have no experience or education in the subject??? How can that be???

Irony and humor rolled into one. Excellent!

ninerbuff

I see this everywhere on this forum.. lift heavy blah blah I'm doing 5x5 strong lifts blah blah. I actually just seen someone say if you aren't going to lift heavy to find a new hobby.. wow... really.. cut your cardio and lift heavy to tone.. hmmmmm

My opinion.. 5x5 isn't lifting heavy. Anything more than reps to me is cardio. Heavy day for me is 8 sets of triples doubles and singles. I also don't thing you should push this so called "heavy lifting" on everyone.. that's stupid. Everyone's body is different and reacts different. Plus a new persons tendons and ligaments need to get accustomed to thus new life style and if you go pushing them to the max they will be hurt more than healthy.. to me I think we should let the advice to people actually come from people who know what they are doing and not from someone who just read this **** online.. you can go ahead and do what you want for yourself but please don't push your ignorance on others to get them hurt..

Well heavy is relative and how heavy someone goes will also depend on the program they do. Obviously power and Olympic competition lifting programs are much different than high volume bodybuilding programs. But that doesn't mean that a bodybuilding program doesn't incorporate weights that are "light" to the individual.
I agree with you on starting slow, building a base and progressing as the body adapts to loads and that starting off with a heavy program as a novice may not be the best approach.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

maiaroman18

Op, if you want to get butthurt, do it here instead of via PM. :cauliflowerforyou:

Girls shouldn't deadlift.

xoxo

Your uterus will fall out.

THAT explains a lot. :laugh:

DatMurse

I see this everywhere on this forum.. lift heavy blah blah I'm doing 5x5 strong lifts blah blah. I actually just seen someone say if you aren't going to lift heavy to find a new hobby.. wow... really.. cut your cardio and lift heavy to tone.. hmmmmm

My opinion.. 5x5 isn't lifting heavy. Anything more than reps to me is cardio. Heavy day for me is 8 sets of triples doubles and singles. I also don't thing you should push this so called "heavy lifting" on everyone.. that's stupid. Everyone's body is different and reacts different. Plus a new persons tendons and ligaments need to get accustomed to thus new life style and if you go pushing them to the max they will be hurt more than healthy.. to me I think we should let the advice to people actually come from people who know what they are doing and not from someone who just read this **** online.. you can go ahead and do what you want for yourself but please don't push your ignorance on others to get them hurt..

1. I dont agree with your opinion, but it is an opinion.
2. strength vs cardio is relative to the energy systems being used. I am sure you know that.
3. I agree with dont push heavy lifting on everyone. 10-12(avg exercise) is sufficient for most people. The average person is not a bodybuilder. Their ligaments and tendons cannot handle it and new people are very much prone to injury especially in the rotator cuff area.
4. The average person here probably doesnt practice free weight exercises to properly lift heavy.

While I am a big fan of powerlifting aside form having degenerative disc disease those lifts will make you or break you. Beginners should not perform the squat or deadlift at high weights without someone to correct their form. Light weight is one thiing recorded for critique... Even "friends" I seen in the gym give their newbie friends **** advice.