lets debate MFP's so called heavy lifting trend
Replies
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Read the first post and just jumping to the end here. I was never a consistent lifter and so when I wanted to become one, I began lifting TOO heavy for me in beginning. In the first two weeks, I tore some muscle in my left shoulder doing incline flies with a set of dumbbells.
Point being, he is right to advice someone to avoid lifting heavy weight to prevent injury - until further disciplined in form and more stable between your joints. I had my headphones in, so when it happened I could hear like a gear popping off it's cycle. It took weeeeeks before I was comfortable training it again and a few months to feel like it was fully healed.
This of course was because I respected the injury, took some time off to heal and currently use a lighter weight until I feel comfortable moving up.
The first few weeks are crucial to prevent injury, I suggest building for stamina and not power when it comes to novice lifting. You'll develop strength, you'll see change and you'll be ready to decide whether or not you're going for heavier weights next.
TLDR: Aim for lighter weights when first starting out to avoid injury. People tend to underestimate the strength between their joints (Me:Hi!) How can someone new determine what's "too heavy" for them? Lol0 -
another sensible post. I thought that why I started this as a debateI see this everywhere on this forum.. lift heavy blah blah I'm doing 5x5 strong lifts blah blah. I actually just seen someone say if you aren't going to lift heavy to find a new hobby.. wow... really.. cut your cardio and lift heavy to tone.. hmmmmm
My opinion.. 5x5 isn't lifting heavy. Anything more than reps to me is cardio. Heavy day for me is 8 sets of triples doubles and singles. I also don't thing you should push this so called "heavy lifting" on everyone.. that's stupid. Everyone's body is different and reacts different. Plus a new persons tendons and ligaments need to get accustomed to thus new life style and if you go pushing them to the max they will be hurt more than healthy.. to me I think we should let the advice to people actually come from people who know what they are doing and not from someone who just read this **** online.. you can go ahead and do what you want for yourself but please don't push your ignorance on others to get them hurt..
1. I dont agree with your opinion, but it is an opinion.
2. strength vs cardio is relative to the energy systems being used. I am sure you know that.
3. I agree with dont push heavy lifting on everyone. 10-12(avg exercise) is sufficient for most people. The average person is not a bodybuilder. Their ligaments and tendons cannot handle it and new people are very much prone to injury especially in the rotator cuff area.
4. The average person here probably doesnt practice free weight exercises to properly lift heavy.
While I am a big fan of powerlifting aside form having degenerative disc disease those lifts will make you or break you. Beginners should not perform the squat or deadlift at high weights without someone to correct their form. Light weight is one thiing recorded for critique... Even "friends" I seen in the gym give their newbie friends **** advice.0 -
Another smart sensible post.. I thought that's why I started it as a debateI see this everywhere on this forum.. lift heavy blah blah I'm doing 5x5 strong lifts blah blah. I actually just seen someone say if you aren't going to lift heavy to find a new hobby.. wow... really.. cut your cardio and lift heavy to tone.. hmmmmm
My opinion.. 5x5 isn't lifting heavy. Anything more than reps to me is cardio. Heavy day for me is 8 sets of triples doubles and singles. I also don't thing you should push this so called "heavy lifting" on everyone.. that's stupid. Everyone's body is different and reacts different. Plus a new persons tendons and ligaments need to get accustomed to thus new life style and if you go pushing them to the max they will be hurt more than healthy.. to me I think we should let the advice to people actually come from people who know what they are doing and not from someone who just read this **** online.. you can go ahead and do what you want for yourself but please don't push your ignorance on others to get them hurt..
1. I dont agree with your opinion, but it is an opinion.
2. strength vs cardio is relative to the energy systems being used. I am sure you know that.
3. I agree with dont push heavy lifting on everyone. 10-12(avg exercise) is sufficient for most people. The average person is not a bodybuilder. Their ligaments and tendons cannot handle it and new people are very much prone to injury especially in the rotator cuff area.
4. The average person here probably doesnt practice free weight exercises to properly lift heavy.
While I am a big fan of powerlifting aside form having degenerative disc disease those lifts will make you or break you. Beginners should not perform the squat or deadlift at high weights without someone to correct their form. Light weight is one thiing recorded for critique... Even "friends" I seen in the gym give their newbie friends **** advice.
You need to brush up on your debating skills then0 -
lifting heavy is really a relative concept... For several in our gym, a heavy lift is a 300 lb bench, for me, it is 125, for my wife, it is about 40 lbs on the chest press... (I can do up to about 240 on that one)... It is all relative. When I encourage others to lift heavy, I try to encourage them to tift at a level to where they feel they are meeting resistance... 8 pound dumb bells are not going to be effective (as far as toning muscle) for nearly anybody... On the other hand, nobody should be ripping tendons out of their shoulders trying to lift far beyond their capability using poor mechanics.
All that being said, you are right... Lfiting heavy may not be for everybody. Everybody has different goals and different methods are used to meet those different goals. However, I do think that for most goals, one should want to lift with some resistance... not a glorified paperweight.0 -
I like to think I'm strong, even if I'm not the strongest, and don't intend to be. My goals aren't yours, sorry we aren't all pros.0
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Irony and humor rolled into one. Excellent!Wait what... Are you saying there are many people on mfp who give advice and have no experience or education in the subject??? How can that be???
i have both, anything you want me to teach you, I'll have to charge. The only people who i train that i don't really charge are fitness competitors...
You're trying WAAAYYYY too hard to troll. Make it more natural to get better results imo.
I will have to charge you for this advice btw0 -
Heavy is based off of your % of your 1RM. now he didnt mention anything in regards to weight.lifting heavy is really a relative concept... For several in our gym, a heavy lift is a 300 lb bench, for me, it is 125, for my wife, it is about 40 lbs on the chest press... (I can do up to about 240 on that one)... It is all relative. When I encourage others to lift heavy, I try to encourage them to tift at a level to where they feel they are meeting resistance... 8 pound dumb bells are not going to be effective (as far as toning muscle) for nearly anybody... On the other hand, nobody should be ripping tendons out of their shoulders trying to lift far beyond their capability using poor mechanics.
All that being said, you are right... Lfiting heavy may not be for everybody. Everybody has different goals and different methods are used to meet those different goals. However, I do think that for most goals, one should want to lift with some resistance... not a glorified paperweight.
There is a general rule of stick to the routine that got you the mass, however.... Most of these people that get this advice do not have any muscle mass that is beyond the normal human being. The same rules do not apply. In the bodybuilding forums its a different story vs here. This is a health and overall fitness forum.
8-12 is sufficient on most exercises for people.0 -
I think I understand where you are coming from. However, as someone that has been the cardio queen and has lost and regained the same 30 pounds, lifting weights has been a lifesaver for me. Of course heavy weights is relative to the person and I don't think anyone is advocating a beginner deadlifting 300 pounds.
Weight lifting or resistance exercises are important for maintaining muscle mass during weight loss as well as being great for bone density and flexibility. People are excited to share their results and want to let people know that you don't have to run 5 miles a day to lose weight. For some people, running 5 miles while on a calorie deficit can cause a loss of muscle mass along with the fat and they end up looking fluffy even though they have lost weight.
I don't think people should be looked down upon for doing other forms of exercise if that is what works for them. I think you are taking the comments out of context.0 -
I'm so lucky I get it for free :-)
Irony and humor rolled into one. Excellent!Wait what... Are you saying there are many people on mfp who give advice and have no experience or education in the subject??? How can that be???
i have both, anything you want me to teach you, I'll have to charge. The only people who i train that i don't really charge are fitness competitors...
You're trying WAAAYYYY too hard to troll. Make it more natural to get better results imo.
I will have to charge you for this advice btw0 -
says the fat guy giving work out advice
yes sirSo as the night goes on people lack the ability to read?? The post I clearly quoted several times said "if you aren't going to lift heavy find a new hobby".. now again. This is advice we shouldn't be giving and it is a trend on here to tell people to lift heavy
So to clarify, as my reading and overall English skills are obviously horrible, your issue is not with lifting heavy but rsther with advice that suggests "Lift Heavy or GTFO!"?
IF, and I repeat IF you had said that you were annoyed with people who push 5 x 5 type programs on people who do not want to do it or do not have the resource to do it, then I would totally agree with you.
Bu what on earth was with all the other superfluous ranting about what is lifting heavy? Calling it cardio. I mean, hyperbole much?
Sara, might want to stick to smaller words.
*low growls*
Hi Tim :smooched:
Rawr!! Hi Julie.
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I am totally going to side with MMA dude on this one. I've also noticed the MFP trend on the forums to basically bully people (especially women) in "lifting heavy". I see it every time I'm in the forums, and yes, it is annoying. Nobody should be so forceful in pushing their methods on others, even if it is a good method. And I also agree that for them to just say "lift heavy!!!" is dangerous, because to a newbie, what qualifies as "heavy" may actually be too heavy, and they could get hurt. And yes, there is also a tendency to talk down on other methods of exercise. I've noticed it too, OP. You aren't alone. And I don't mind at all that you are speaking out about it. I think everyone just needs to be a little less aggressive about their recommendations.0
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This thread just proves 90% of the self proclaimed professionals on this site are ****ed in the head. People referencing "toning". This site is good for tracking nutrients, anything else is just too far beyond its reach.
Are those plates standard plates on the bar in your avi out of interest?0 -
I'm pretty sure Rippetoe knows what he's doing when it comes to the Starting Strength program (what Stronglifts 5x5 basically ripped off).0
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This thread just proves 90% of the self proclaimed professionals on this site are ****ed in the head. People referencing "toning". This site is good for tracking nutrients, anything else is just too far beyond its reach.
Are those plates standard plates on the bar in your avi out of interest?
bar isnt bending...0 -
another pro on the internets trying to push his was on the rest of the human race nothing new move along0
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This thread just proves 90% of the self proclaimed professionals on this site are ****ed in the head. People referencing "toning". This site is good for tracking nutrients, anything else is just too far beyond its reach.
Are those plates standard plates on the bar in your avi out of interest?
That is what I was thinking too.0 -
Look I already understood what OP said in regards to injury. I have been on forums in regards to lifting heavy and seen too many people suffer from injuries. Mine was from a disease that my brother and my mother have as well so its different. You have to respect these lifts.
It is the same reason I do not agree with crossfit. These lifts are not for amateurs and need to be taught properly to avoid danger.
Lifting heavy for free weight is where the injuries will occur. the small auxiliary muscles are usually weak on a new lifter or someone who strictly uses machines. These areas are very prone for injury0 -
This thread just proves 90% of the self proclaimed professionals on this site are ****ed in the head. People referencing "toning". This site is good for tracking nutrients, anything else is just too far beyond its reach.
Are those plates standard plates on the bar in your avi out of interest?
bar isnt bending...
Texas barbells, they don't bend and flex like your pansy 24 hour fitness ab roller bars. 495 on the bar as opener, finished with 695 and took the mens open record for USAPL that day, still hold it today at 765, thanks have a nice day.0 -
Wouldn't cardio be separated from other forms of exercise by something like the type of muscle fibers it uses? Isn't the point of delineating "heavy" from "cardio" to determine something of actual meaning to someone?Anything more than reps to me is cardio
In other words something like, "if it builds fast-twitch muscle it's heavy, if it doesn't it's cardio." (And I'm pretty sure that is what people here are talking about when they say to 'lift heavy.')
Otherwise if the meaning of cardio is 100% arbitrary then the word is useless and we might as well say, "I'm doing purple monkey dishwasher exercise, and your workout is just green hockeypuck airliner by my standards."0 -
This thread just proves 90% of the self proclaimed professionals on this site are ****ed in the head. People referencing "toning". This site is good for tracking nutrients, anything else is just too far beyond its reach.
Are those plates standard plates on the bar in your avi out of interest?
bar isnt bending...
Texas barbells, they don't bend and flex like your pansy 24 hour fitness ab roller bars. 495 on the bar as opener, finished with 695 and took the mens open record for USAPL that day, still hold it today at 765, thanks have a nice day.
That was a bit overly defensive.
But seriously, holy **** on those lifts!! How heavy is the barbell? 95? I was guessing 100lb plates.0 -
This thread just proves 90% of the self proclaimed professionals on this site are ****ed in the head. People referencing "toning". This site is good for tracking nutrients, anything else is just too far beyond its reach.
Are those plates standard plates on the bar in your avi out of interest?
bar isnt bending...
Texas barbells, they don't bend and flex like your pansy 24 hour fitness ab roller bars. 495 on the bar as opener, finished with 695 and took the mens open record for USAPL that day, still hold it today at 765, thanks have a nice day.
Oh dear...deactivated. And he never answered my question :sad:0 -
That's a power lifters joke.. sorry0
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That's a power lifters joke.. sorry
I WANT FABULOUS THAT IS MY SIMPLE REQUEST. I NEED A LITTLE FABULOUS IS THAT SO WRONG?0 -
This thread just proves 90% of the self proclaimed professionals on this site are ****ed in the head. People referencing "toning". This site is good for tracking nutrients, anything else is just too far beyond its reach.
Are those plates standard plates on the bar in your avi out of interest?
bar isnt bending...
Texas barbells, they don't bend and flex like your pansy 24 hour fitness ab roller bars. 495 on the bar as opener, finished with 695 and took the mens open record for USAPL that day, still hold it today at 765, thanks have a nice day.
Yea cause the standard oly bars are for pansies right? Regardless on how much weight that is, no need to be angry.0 -
This thread just proves 90% of the self proclaimed professionals on this site are ****ed in the head. People referencing "toning". This site is good for tracking nutrients, anything else is just too far beyond its reach.
Are those plates standard plates on the bar in your avi out of interest?
bar isnt bending...
Texas barbells, they don't bend and flex like your pansy 24 hour fitness ab roller bars. 495 on the bar as opener, finished with 695 and took the mens open record for USAPL that day, still hold it today at 765, thanks have a nice day.
Yea cause the standard oly bars are for pansies right? Regardless on how much weight that is, no need to be angry.
He ragequit and deactivated after calling somebody a *kitten*.
MFP DRAMA!0 -
That's a power lifters joke.. sorry
Your bar bends in your pic..are you using a pansy arsed 24 hour fitness bar 0 -
This thread just proves 90% of the self proclaimed professionals on this site are ****ed in the head. People referencing "toning". This site is good for tracking nutrients, anything else is just too far beyond its reach.
Are those plates standard plates on the bar in your avi out of interest?
bar isnt bending...
Texas barbells, they don't bend and flex like your pansy 24 hour fitness ab roller bars. 495 on the bar as opener, finished with 695 and took the mens open record for USAPL that day, still hold it today at 765, thanks have a nice day.
Yea cause the standard oly bars are for pansies right? Regardless on how much weight that is, no need to be angry.
There is definitely a bit of the double standard going on in this post. You can't tell people to lift heavy but you can tell them they don't know what they are talking about if they don't bench 700 pounds. I think we all have different goals here. I'm trying to lose fat. I don't care how much I can lift and have no desire to enter any competition.0 -
bumping0
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It's a strawman argument
Most people that recommend "lift heavy" then go and point out a beginner program like 5x5, Stronglifts or New Rules - all progressive weight training programs which begin with relatively light weights and neuromuscular adaptation. I have yet to see one person seriously suggest someone begin with a truly heavy program.
And most people here starting a progressive program do not go to become powerlifters or bodybuilders but are looking for a little help in body recomp. What the OP considers heavy has nothing to do with the reality of the MFP context where a year of beginning lifting is heavy and most people train at a dietary restriction.
"Lift Heavy" is a nice meme which responds to the usual "2 lbs pink weight toning while doing 30 day shred" to which it is a counterpoint.0 -
no the power lifter joke is anything more than three is cardio.. the picture of me deadliftjng is with a Texas power bar.. I'm just lifting more hahahaThat's a power lifters joke.. sorry
Your bar bends in your pic..are you using a pansy arsed 24 hour fitness bar0
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