lets debate MFP's so called heavy lifting trend

Sarauk2sf

Awesome form if you're head makes up 1/4 of your total height, maybe I'm just different, but my head is a lot smaller in proportion to the rest of my body!

What is wrong about his form, assuming that his head was not 1/4 of his height? Not sure of the relevance but I could be missing something.

It's not that there is anything terribly wrong with HIS form, its that it's cited as an example for adults to copy, which can't happen, due to having a completely different physique.

Got it...just go with the flow here....check the thread a few pages ago...we are playing nice :happy:

HelloDan

Got it...just go with the flow here....check the thread a few pages ago...we are playing nice :happy:

I'm reading backwards, so this will prob make more sense in a minute!

taunto

Got it...just go with the flow here....check the thread a few pages ago...we are playing nice :happy:

I'm reading backwards, so this will prob make more sense in a minute!

You know its English and not Arabic we're using here right?

HelloDan

Got it...just go with the flow here....check the thread a few pages ago...we are playing nice :happy:

I'm reading backwards, so this will prob make more sense in a minute!

You know its English and not Arabic we're using here right?

Oh, I thought it was Hebrew, easy mistake to make!

pcastagner

Why couldn't 7 pages ago you just say.. oh this is what you meant.. I agree

I will be on it quicker next time.

I use that line all the time..

On another note.. be sure to watch tru TVs Guinness world records gone wild this fall.. I'll be on trying to break the most frying pans rolled in a minute record..

Just Googled wtf that is....and it's badass. You Strongmen do the weirdest things to test grip strength though.

I'm having grip issues, maybe I need to start rolling frying pans.

plate pinches.. use 5lb plates and grip as many as you can for as long as you can.. easiest grip work other than dead lifts. 5lbs to easy use 10lb plates..

Yeap. I do em.

And farmers walks and a few other things.

You have to realize what your goals are... the farmers walk would help with gripping... I kind of had the same problem you had. My goal at the same was functional strength, having strength that I can use in a real life situation, not being able to "increase my dead lift." So i got rid of my straps.

You have to know that the body works as a system. This is why i am not a fan of isolation exercises. It throws the system out of balance. In 95% of real life situations, you have enough gripping strength to do what you need to do. If you do increase your grip strength, you can throw your muscle balance out of wack which can lead to injuries down the line.

A good example is bicep curls(they strengthen the bicep). Lets say you want stronger biceps for back exercises like rows. So you go there build up strength in your biceps... Now when you go and do rows... your strength system is not proportional to your back. You might put too much load on your back muscles causing injuries.

That's assuming your system was balanced when you started.


I started too strong in the muscles that fold me up, not strong enough in the muscles that unfold me. I believe there are environmental causes, like sitting at chairs and desks. Yes, you start out balanced - as a toddler. But after that, it's all downhill in terms of both musculature and kinesthesia.


I just wanted to chime in that I agree with the OP.

Doing compound exercises will bring balance. If you add isolation work it would keep you out of balance. Assuming you develop proportionally.

Unlikely. The only way to bring balance is to change your everyday habits, and correct the debauched kinesthesia you develop as an adaptation to your environment. If you do compound moves and you still slouch all day, and the muscles that bring you to full stature remain weaker than the ones pulling you down, you will simply compound your problems. Go take some Alexander technique lessons, then come back and tell me compound lifts made you balanced. The problem of how you use yourself is still there unless you train yourself to overcome it. Watch a toddler pick an object off the ground. Is that how you do it?

I do understand what you're talking about, sounds like you're talking about pete egoscue stuff. It's not the same thing I am talking about... you're more along the lines of some muscles being more tense then others throwing your skeletal system out of whack. Which is a good thing to mention, it's highly over looked by most people(including myself).

I am talking about muscular strength imbalances. I will use the same example as above, the dead lifting one. You have weak gripping strength. You decide to work on your grip, you get a stronger grip. Now your grip strength is not naturally proportional, how it should be. You're more at risk of injury now, your hands can handle a heavier weight, but can your back?

If you forget the grip strength and lift what you can your grip naturally will become stronger proportional to your back strength. The system is working together as it should be. Where your structural stuff comes in, you can be all lined up and still have stronger/weaker forearms for gripping... which can offset the entire pulling system.

Well, to use that in particular, in my case, I have underused my grip most of my life, relative to my back, so it makes sense to target grip. It really depends on what you want to accomplish. If you are into free climbing, you are going to need grip way beyond what one would develop for the deadlift. If you are smart about your goals, and making good choices, isolation exercises can make a lot of sense. A free climber would point out that neither farmer walks nor holding plates even comes close to developing enough grip, and for their goals, that is true. I think your example in particular makes bad assumptions (mainly, about the size and shape of your handhold).

I'm not actually talking about how tense the muscle is (tone). I am talking about the commands given to those muscles, and the false impressions we get from our kinesthetic sense, due to normal adaptation to environment. Debauched kinesthesia means, usually, major flaws in subject's idea of what "upright", "crooked", "slouching", etc... feels like. In a typical Alexander lesson, you will experience a sense of being "twisted up", but then you look in the mirror, and that's the first time you've been straight and upright all day.

I'm a pro opera singer, and all these subtle things become huge flaws in the voice. Just a tiny pinch here, a bit of tension down the front of the neck, raised shoulders, or even insufficient mobility in the ribs will show up in the voice. So again, question of goals, but I know better than to think I can create balance by doing anything other than working on balance.

When was the last time you wondered if your shoulders are as far from each other as they could be?


Which brings me back to the OP, and why I agree so much. I took the advice to "lift heavy", and wound up hurting myself, on squats and leg press. Pulled intercostals, and pulled back muscles. I have yet to hurt myself with the TRX, I still can do moves that lead to failure within 8 reps, and I am still making great progress towards my goal physique. I wish I had been smarter about this, but I unfortunately got caught up in the "lift heavy or go home" cult. I only wound up using the suspension trainer because I couldn't get to a gym on the road, not because I had any wisdom. The bro I was listening to definitely led me astray.

sunglasses_and_ocean_waves

Totally agree with the OP and not sure why exactly it was demanded he qualify himself to express an opinion here (though it was great when he did). There is an overload of pressure to lift heavy which is a little insane with total newbies. I often worry that they are given that advice, get overwhelmed, leave here and never really embark on a program because they feel "what's the point?" I'm not talking about people who answer questions respectfully and thoughtfully. I'm talking about the rude brats who don't even read an OP and just spew off junk.

OP: my lilacs are blooming now. :flowerforyou:

nz_deevaa

Why couldn't 7 pages ago you just say.. oh this is what you meant.. I agree

I will be on it quicker next time.

I use that line all the time..

On another note.. be sure to watch tru TVs Guinness world records gone wild this fall.. I'll be on trying to break the most frying pans rolled in a minute record..

Just Googled wtf that is....and it's badass. You Strongmen do the weirdest things to test grip strength though.

I'm having grip issues, maybe I need to start rolling frying pans.

plate pinches.. use 5lb plates and grip as many as you can for as long as you can.. easiest grip work other than dead lifts. 5lbs to easy use 10lb plates..

Yeap. I do em.

And farmers walks and a few other things.

You have to realize what your goals are... the farmers walk would help with gripping... I kind of had the same problem you had. My goal at the same was functional strength, having strength that I can use in a real life situation, not being able to "increase my dead lift." So i got rid of my straps.

You have to know that the body works as a system. This is why i am not a fan of isolation exercises. It throws the system out of balance. In 95% of real life situations, you have enough gripping strength to do what you need to do. If you do increase your grip strength, you can throw your muscle balance out of wack which can lead to injuries down the line.

A good example is bicep curls(they strengthen the bicep). Lets say you want stronger biceps for back exercises like rows. So you go there build up strength in your biceps... Now when you go and do rows... your strength system is not proportional to your back. You might put too much load on your back muscles causing injuries.

That's assuming your system was balanced when you started.


I started too strong in the muscles that fold me up, not strong enough in the muscles that unfold me. I believe there are environmental causes, like sitting at chairs and desks. Yes, you start out balanced - as a toddler. But after that, it's all downhill in terms of both musculature and kinesthesia.


I just wanted to chime in that I agree with the OP.

Doing compound exercises will bring balance. If you add isolation work it would keep you out of balance. Assuming you develop proportionally.

Unlikely. The only way to bring balance is to change your everyday habits, and correct the debauched kinesthesia you develop as an adaptation to your environment. If you do compound moves and you still slouch all day, and the muscles that bring you to full stature remain weaker than the ones pulling you down, you will simply compound your problems. Go take some Alexander technique lessons, then come back and tell me compound lifts made you balanced. The problem of how you use yourself is still there unless you train yourself to overcome it. Watch a toddler pick an object off the ground. Is that how you do it?

I do understand what you're talking about, sounds like you're talking about pete egoscue stuff. It's not the same thing I am talking about... you're more along the lines of some muscles being more tense then others throwing your skeletal system out of whack. Which is a good thing to mention, it's highly over looked by most people(including myself).

I am talking about muscular strength imbalances. I will use the same example as above, the dead lifting one. You have weak gripping strength. You decide to work on your grip, you get a stronger grip. Now your grip strength is not naturally proportional, how it should be. You're more at risk of injury now, your hands can handle a heavier weight, but can your back?

If you forget the grip strength and lift what you can your grip naturally will become stronger proportional to your back strength. The system is working together as it should be. Where your structural stuff comes in, you can be all lined up and still have stronger/weaker forearms for gripping... which can offset the entire pulling system.

I really don't need your advice on grip.

I didn't ask for any advice, I made a quip about rolling frypans to help my weak grip.

I'm strengthening my grip because I believe I can lift more and that my grip is holding me back.

gerard54

If i lift it then it's heavy haha, oh I kid, but seriously I lift heavy haha...

taunto

I really don't need your advice on grip.

I didn't ask for any advice, I made a quip about rolling frypans to help my weak grip.

I'm strengthening my grip because I believe I can lift more and that my grip is holding me back.

All I read is "My fingers aren't good enough".

I know the feels :sad:

BrainyBurro

gymnastics is better than powerlifting. Everyone should just do backflips and *kitten*.

bah!

lifting and gymnastics are so 2012.

the new thing for 2013 is prancersize!



taking the fitness world by storm.

beachlover317

^LOL I love her. Jewelry. Tighty whities. Aqua Net hair. Ankle weights. :laugh:

myofibril

I think the Church of Lift Heavy ("COLH") on MFP is generally idiotic.

A couple of the High Priests and Priestess are able to spread enlightenment and they are cool. The majority of missionaries who spread the Good Word of 5x5 based on the Gospel of Starr are insufferable though.

Having said that I think working with resistance to achieve progressive overload is fabulous