"Clean" or Flexible Eating - food for thought?
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When it comes to many aspects of life, not just eating "healthy", there are certain levels of enlightenment or knowledge. At one point in time, we thought the sun revolved around the world. We are more knowledgeable now and realize that the Earth revolves around the sun.
Humans have killed animals for food for hundreds of thousands of years. It's a primitive practice that I feel will eventually go away once we become more enlightened about food and not see it as just carbs, fats, and proteins or even calories. If people knew the harm conventional farming does to our world, or even the conditions of conventional farming, I bet they would think twice about what type of food they ate. Even humane farming practice is primitive because that's how farming was practiced before industrialized farming. So in that sense, we have actually gone backwards with the rise of conventional farming while killing our planet in the process. Yay for us :-/
Before the discovery of calories in the early 19th century, people stayed healthy by being active and eating real, wholesome food. Plain and simple. There was no need to count calories or go to a gym. No need to worry about if someone's getting enough protein or if they need to drink more water. People were just more in tune with their bodies and really listened to them. There was no internet or media to say "you must look like this" or "this diet causes you lose 50 pounds in 12 weeks". If people were more enlightened and had a closer connection with their food, there would be a good chance we would all be healthier, less subconscious about our bodies, and wouldn't have a need to have a "flexible eating" arrangement since the only foods we would consume would be packed with vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients, and antioxidants.
People don't realize how great they can feel until they ditch all the foods that cause them to feel anything but great. For me, this includes ditching wheat, dairy, and chocolate. I'm on the fence if I can eat gluten since barley is hit or miss with me. Just need to do more experimenting. I can't remember the last time I felt like running for miles after eating a big steak or downing some ice cream. Although, ice cream (or just dairy in general) is a funny food for me. I have consumed a half pint of ice cream, took a nap, and felt great when I woke up. However, I have always experienced a crash afterwards. Dairy has some very interesting compounds that play with our physiology in different ways. Overall though, for me, it's best to avoid it. There is no need for dairy in the diet.
When it comes to endless energy, my go-to food is sprouted buckwheat and sprouted lentils with a side of salad and veggies (carrots and celery). When I eat this combo, I instantly have a ton of energy and it lasts. There is no crash afterwards. It's boring food compared to the chemically induced feelings we get from processed foods or the opiate-like characteristics we experience from wheat or dairy but in the long run, your body will thank you for it a million times over.
It can be tough to get in tune with your body and really get biofeedback about a food or meal. Maybe one item in the meal causes the whole meal to make someone feel less than optimal. I have noticed this with salsa. If I eat it alone (who would do that?), I feel great. When I eat it with beans and rice, I can notice a difference.
My main point is that if someone really wants to get to a level of endless energy without caffeine, feeling relaxed about life, sleeping better, and just feeling awesome overall, I would suggest that people stop worrying about calories and make being in tune with their body and the food they put into it a main priority in their life. Calories do matter up to a certain point since eating healthy requires one to eat a lot more. However, they do not dictate how healthy you are. The type of food you put in your body is going to dictate the level of physical, mental, and spiritual health you experience.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Tedebearduff wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »I would tend to think lack of flexibility leads to binge behaviors. Control snaps, the binge and overeating happens because you swear you'll get back on track and never eat the offending substance again. BUT... while you're eating the forbidden fruit, you shove as much as you can into your face because you're never ever having it. Lather, rinse, repeat.
As for food and mood? I used to think they were connected, now I disagree. My moods are entirely separate from my food. Food can't make me anything except not hungry. I enjoy something that's tasty, I get satisfaction from having cooked something delicious, but food has no control over how I feel.
I spent a while trying to untangle wanting to eat to soothe myself. I guess I'm finally there. I think the idea of a restrictive diet is appealing to people who like control, who feel that if they can just do xyz, everything will fall into place. That sort of thinking does go hand in hand with anxiety. It's not related to the eating, but it's typical thinking of someone with anxiety. The peace of surrender and the surety of their own strength hasn't settled into their bones yet.
Hey this is false, your body has a different hormonal response to foods which can/will effect your mood.
What food can make you angry or depressed? Seriously?
How about the opposite where coffee, teas, St John's Wort, etc. are known serotonin pathway modifier. Which in turn affects mood and hunger signaling?
Or the term "hangry"?
Possibly, I guess. I want that mug.
I don't buy into hangry, but then again. Menopause. It changes the hormone thing a lot, and makes me question how much is just a byproduct of modern living. I don't honestly think hunter-gatherers had the luxury of becoming "hangry".
Or maybe the hangry ones beat the others over the head with clubs, hence perpetuating their own hangry genes and eliminating the non-hangry gene?0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Smith and colleagues found that flexible dieting was associated with the absence of overeating, lower bodyweight, and the absence of depression and anxiety [22]. They also found that a strict all-or-nothing approach to dieting was associated with overeating and increased bodyweight. Similarly, Stewart and colleagues found that rigid dieting was associated with symptoms of an eating disorder, mood disturbances, and anxiety [23]. Flexible dieting was not highly correlated with these qualities.
[/b]
I think the questions raised by this article are important. I tend to think from personal experience that disordered eating can cause inflexible eating. Restricting certain foods, and following inflexible eating patterns become coping mechanisms for bingers and overeaters.
There are people who successfully lose and maintain weight whose diets lack a lot flexibility, and there are flexible dieters who are equally as successful. In evaluating a person's diet, I suppose the key questions are: 1. Does this diet support this person's health goals? 2. Diet this diet support this person's health?
If the answer to questions are both "yes" then the degree of flexibility is probably sufficient.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »KombuchaCat wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »KombuchaCat wrote: »I don't think avoiding unhealthy food is a bad thing. Can some people take it too far and be obsessed? Sure, one can be obsessed with anything, good or bad. Personally I feel great when I eat beautiful, healthful food and I feel *kitten* when I eat crap food. That's enough for me. And I don't think that people being obsessed with being healthy is the problem we need to be focusing on.
What exactly is unhealthy food?
Feel free to read my bio, my personal opinions about healthy food are clearly written there. You can disagree with me if you like.
Your bio does seem to suggest you do obsess about things. Whether it is tea or living with only 100/300 things, it sort of points to a case study in OC behavior. Now, it might very well work for you and that's great but it doesn't in anyway challenge the findings of the research posted.
And the reason for posting that is - as a warning or consideration to others - perhaps, in some cases - restrictive behaviour leads down a spiral that will make someone not succeed. Thinking about it, even if you decide to restrict, might help avoid those pitfalls.
Just echoing what you said here.
Restrictive behavior, especially when it branches into lifestyle, is, at least in my experience, an attempt to pursue and guarantee happiness. An attempt to find a key, or a magic formula for the perfect life. The underlying aspect to all this is the illusion of control. If we can control all these little bits and pieces in our lives, everything will be just fine.
The bottom eventually falls out, though. That's always the problem with any sort of restriction. The further reaching it is, the more devastating the fall, and consequences.
There are no magic bullets in life or dieting. There's just determination and facing reality.
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“They also found that a strict all-or-nothing approach to...” - stop right there. Fill in almost anything, and that activity will become unhealthy and destructive.
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There are people who successfully lose and maintain weight whose diets lack a lot flexibility, and there are flexible dieters who are equally as successful. In evaluating a person's diet, I suppose the key questions are: 1. Does this diet support this person's health goals? 2. Diet this diet support this person's health?
If the answer to questions are both "yes" then the degree of flexibility is probably sufficient.
I like this!! Very sensible post.
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girlviernes wrote: »One thing to consider is that when we think of food as good/bad, or healthy/crap, we can induce a placebo type effect where we eat bad/crap and feel anxious, guilty, physically uncomfortable, etc. This really makes it difficult to objectively sort out how food affects us - although it does not negate that there can be effects.
Re the article, Jolinia. It's hard to comment without the full article. Unfortunately, abstracts do not give an accurate view of scientific findings. I looked up the article, but I'd need to make an interlibrary loan request to get it.
Regarding the abstract, I wanted to add that Jolinia's question about what came first didn't necessarily follow from what was cited. Depression/Anxiety were seen in the patients who had IBS, not the other way around. Depression/Anxiety aren't exactly strangers to people with chronic conditions.
I have heard before, and I don't feel like looking this up, about some research connecting depression and the gut and something about certain receptors being in the intestines (I think this is what I remember reading), but my memory of it is all fuzzy.
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »KombuchaCat wrote: »in…to see where this goes…KombuchaCat wrote: »
What is unhealthy food?KombuchaCat wrote: »I don't think avoiding unhealthy food is a bad thing. Can some people take it too far and be obsessed? Sure, one can be obsessed with anything, good or bad. Personally I feel great when I eat beautiful, healthful food and I feel *kitten* when I eat crap food. That's enough for me. And I don't think that people being obsessed with being healthy is the problem we need to be focusing on.
When you say you eat crap food do you mean feces?
Whatever my definition of healthy food is what I'm eating obviously enables me to express my opinion without being insulting and disgusting.
so you have no definition then?
Pretty much
As I stated before, read my bio, my opinions are there.
Pretty much: I am a member of the Dr. Weston A. Price Foundation (WAPF) and follow their eating principles.This means I eat whole, nutrient dense, traditional foods." And I have eliminated added sugars and keep fruit to a minimum and only lower fructose fruits like berries and kiwi.
Oh, boy. Now you've done it. The Fuhrmanites are going to come after your blood.
Hahahaha! Apparently I'm a gluton for punishment, the 80/10/10 and Fuhrmanites have serious issues with my WAPH based diet as I eat copious amounts of fat especially coconut and grass fed butter...ah, we have fun on MFP, don't we?0 -
TrailBlazerMN wrote: »When it comes to many aspects of life, not just eating "healthy", there are certain levels of enlightenment or knowledge. At one point in time, we thought the sun revolved around the world. We are more knowledgeable now and realize that the Earth revolves around the sun.
Humans have killed animals for food for hundreds of thousands of years. It's a primitive practice that I feel will eventually go away once we become more enlightened about food and not see it as just carbs, fats, and proteins or even calories. If people knew the harm conventional farming does to our world, or even the conditions of conventional farming, I bet they would think twice about what type of food they ate. Even humane farming practice is primitive because that's how farming was practiced before industrialized farming. So in that sense, we have actually gone backwards with the rise of conventional farming while killing our planet in the process. Yay for us :-/
Before the discovery of calories in the early 19th century, people stayed healthy by being active and eating real, wholesome food. Plain and simple. There was no need to count calories or go to a gym. No need to worry about if someone's getting enough protein or if they need to drink more water. People were just more in tune with their bodies and really listened to them. There was no internet or media to say "you must look like this" or "this diet causes you lose 50 pounds in 12 weeks". If people were more enlightened and had a closer connection with their food, there would be a good chance we would all be healthier, less subconscious about our bodies, and wouldn't have a need to have a "flexible eating" arrangement since the only foods we would consume would be packed with vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients, and antioxidants.
People don't realize how great they can feel until they ditch all the foods that cause them to feel anything but great. For me, this includes ditching wheat, dairy, and chocolate. I'm on the fence if I can eat gluten since barley is hit or miss with me. Just need to do more experimenting. I can't remember the last time I felt like running for miles after eating a big steak or downing some ice cream. Although, ice cream (or just dairy in general) is a funny food for me. I have consumed a half pint of ice cream, took a nap, and felt great when I woke up. However, I have always experienced a crash afterwards. Dairy has some very interesting compounds that play with our physiology in different ways. Overall though, for me, it's best to avoid it. There is no need for dairy in the diet.
When it comes to endless energy, my go-to food is sprouted buckwheat and sprouted lentils with a side of salad and veggies (carrots and celery). When I eat this combo, I instantly have a ton of energy and it lasts. There is no crash afterwards. It's boring food compared to the chemically induced feelings we get from processed foods or the opiate-like characteristics we experience from wheat or dairy but in the long run, your body will thank you for it a million times over.
It can be tough to get in tune with your body and really get biofeedback about a food or meal. Maybe one item in the meal causes the whole meal to make someone feel less than optimal. I have noticed this with salsa. If I eat it alone (who would do that?), I feel great. When I eat it with beans and rice, I can notice a difference.
My main point is that if someone really wants to get to a level of endless energy without caffeine, feeling relaxed about life, sleeping better, and just feeling awesome overall, I would suggest that people stop worrying about calories and make being in tune with their body and the food they put into it a main priority in their life. Calories do matter up to a certain point since eating healthy requires one to eat a lot more. However, they do not dictate how healthy you are. The type of food you put in your body is going to dictate the level of physical, mental, and spiritual health you experience.
This!0 -
Maybe if vegetables didnt taste so bad, it would be alot easier. Fruits are great, but vegetables are literally disgusting.0
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TrailBlazerMN wrote: »
It can be tough to get in tune with your body and really get biofeedback about a food or meal. Maybe one item in the meal causes the whole meal to make someone feel less than optimal. I have noticed this with salsa. If I eat it alone (who would do that?), I feel great. When I eat it with beans and rice, I can notice a difference.
It is certainly tough for me. It has me in a pleasantly research-based tizzy.
But your food combination comment reminds me, there are Tibetan monks who eat some meat, but when they do, they don't mix it with bread or starches. They also don't mix fruits with some foods. At least that is what I read, not sure I trust the accuracy of the sources I've found so far.0 -
Here's the thing that always boggles my mind when a thread on orthorexia comes up. People are so quick to board the "Healthy eating isn't bad! I cannot believe you all are suggesting that eating ice cream all day is healthy!" train when just eating healthy is not what orthorexia is.
They're not talking about being the person bringing the fruit bowl or veggie tray to a Super Bowl party. They're talking about the person who is so paralyzed with fear due to lack of control or knowledge of every item of food that they are going to be in contact with that he or she just stays home from social events rather than face the anxiety it would cause.
"Eating healthy" is no more orthorexia than feeling sad on one isolated day is clinical depression.0 -
re: OP post, I think it is certainly possible to adhere to dietary restrictions long-term, as so many with religious restrictions or ethical restrictions (vegan, vegetarian) do. It's really a matter of seeing how restrictions function in your life. If they increase anxiety and/or obsessiveness to a problematic level, that is a problem, if more restrictions are continually added, that is a problem, if there is a restrict/over-indulge pattern, that is a problem, if there is an underlying sense of shame or lack of control, that is a problem.
However, if you choose an eating style and it fits your values, there is room for variety, and you aren't constantly struggling with yourself over your eating, then that is great!0 -
Tedebearduff wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »I would tend to think lack of flexibility leads to binge behaviors. Control snaps, the binge and overeating happens because you swear you'll get back on track and never eat the offending substance again. BUT... while you're eating the forbidden fruit, you shove as much as you can into your face because you're never ever having it. Lather, rinse, repeat.
As for food and mood? I used to think they were connected, now I disagree. My moods are entirely separate from my food. Food can't make me anything except not hungry. I enjoy something that's tasty, I get satisfaction from having cooked something delicious, but food has no control over how I feel.
I spent a while trying to untangle wanting to eat to soothe myself. I guess I'm finally there. I think the idea of a restrictive diet is appealing to people who like control, who feel that if they can just do xyz, everything will fall into place. That sort of thinking does go hand in hand with anxiety. It's not related to the eating, but it's typical thinking of someone with anxiety. The peace of surrender and the surety of their own strength hasn't settled into their bones yet.
Hey this is false, your body has a different hormonal response to foods which can/will effect your mood.
Tell me what food will cause someone to be depressed or angry since you are quick to say the statement is false. Let me guess you're talking about dopamine release and want to lump that into a broad statement.
I'm not sure if food can cause depression (I've not heard of it), but some foods are natural anti-depressants. Carbs can increase serotonin production, which is one reason why people who binge due to mood or "eat their feelings" tend to go for carbs. It does make them feel better.
I know at least one user on here experimented with low carb and her depression got worse, and so she had to abandon that eating style and incorporate carbs back into her diet. I tried low carb and had issues with low blood sugars and anxiety.
I agree you need to find eating habits that work for you. My body does react differently to different things. I cannot drink coffee. It gives me the shakes as if I have low blood sugar. Even black decaf (and diet soda and tea don't affect me the same way, so it's not the caffeine). Not sure what the hell it is, but no coffee for me (which makes me very sad). I'd never tell anyone else not to drink coffee though.
It seems like all these arguments start because we all try to insist that someone else eats like us. However, I do think there is a difference between people who have tried different eating styles and have found what works for them and someone who watched a video or read a blog and because of that they've decided to cut out x, y, and z from their diet. I think it's important to let them know that eating a particular way is not required. They should experiment and then adjust based on how it affects them, what they like to eat (and do they binge if they miss what they cut out), and how satiated the new diet is keeping them.0 -
It isn't a matter of certain foods making me feel emotional (unless whiskey or tequila count). I am just drawn to food that is of better quality. I’m not a fanatic about it - if I am experiencing hunger pains and I don’t have quality food easily available at the moment, I will certainly eat something that doesn't meet my standards, as long as it fits within my caloric and macros goals.0
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TrailBlazerMN wrote: »When it comes to many aspects of life, not just eating "healthy", there are certain levels of enlightenment or knowledge. At one point in time, we thought the sun revolved around the world. We are more knowledgeable now and realize that the Earth revolves around the sun.
Humans have killed animals for food for hundreds of thousands of years. It's a primitive practice that I feel will eventually go away once we become more enlightened about food and not see it as just carbs, fats, and proteins or even calories. If people knew the harm conventional farming does to our world, or even the conditions of conventional farming, I bet they would think twice about what type of food they ate. Even humane farming practice is primitive because that's how farming was practiced before industrialized farming. So in that sense, we have actually gone backwards with the rise of conventional farming while killing our planet in the process. Yay for us :-/
Before the discovery of calories in the early 19th century, people stayed healthy by being active and eating real, wholesome food. Plain and simple. There was no need to count calories or go to a gym. No need to worry about if someone's getting enough protein or if they need to drink more water. People were just more in tune with their bodies and really listened to them. There was no internet or media to say "you must look like this" or "this diet causes you lose 50 pounds in 12 weeks". If people were more enlightened and had a closer connection with their food, there would be a good chance we would all be healthier, less subconscious about our bodies, and wouldn't have a need to have a "flexible eating" arrangement since the only foods we would consume would be packed with vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients, and antioxidants.
People don't realize how great they can feel until they ditch all the foods that cause them to feel anything but great. For me, this includes ditching wheat, dairy, and chocolate. I'm on the fence if I can eat gluten since barley is hit or miss with me. Just need to do more experimenting. I can't remember the last time I felt like running for miles after eating a big steak or downing some ice cream. Although, ice cream (or just dairy in general) is a funny food for me. I have consumed a half pint of ice cream, took a nap, and felt great when I woke up. However, I have always experienced a crash afterwards. Dairy has some very interesting compounds that play with our physiology in different ways. Overall though, for me, it's best to avoid it. There is no need for dairy in the diet.
When it comes to endless energy, my go-to food is sprouted buckwheat and sprouted lentils with a side of salad and veggies (carrots and celery). When I eat this combo, I instantly have a ton of energy and it lasts. There is no crash afterwards. It's boring food compared to the chemically induced feelings we get from processed foods or the opiate-like characteristics we experience from wheat or dairy but in the long run, your body will thank you for it a million times over.
It can be tough to get in tune with your body and really get biofeedback about a food or meal. Maybe one item in the meal causes the whole meal to make someone feel less than optimal. I have noticed this with salsa. If I eat it alone (who would do that?), I feel great. When I eat it with beans and rice, I can notice a difference.
My main point is that if someone really wants to get to a level of endless energy without caffeine, feeling relaxed about life, sleeping better, and just feeling awesome overall, I would suggest that people stop worrying about calories and make being in tune with their body and the food they put into it a main priority in their life. Calories do matter up to a certain point since eating healthy requires one to eat a lot more. However, they do not dictate how healthy you are. The type of food you put in your body is going to dictate the level of physical, mental, and spiritual health you experience.
This whole romanticized version of what people "used to eat" has got to go away.
The people who used to live in crushing poverty and who faced things like drought, crop failure and coming up empty when they hunted were all too common in the good ol' days.
I'll pass on the once a day gruel and weak ale and have my processed tap water and yogurt.
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girlviernes wrote: »re: OP post, I think it is certainly possible to adhere to dietary restrictions long-term, as so many with religious restrictions or ethical restrictions (vegan, vegetarian) do. It's really a matter of seeing how restrictions function in your life. If they increase anxiety and/or obsessiveness to a problematic level, that is a problem, if more restrictions are continually added, that is a problem, if there is a restrict/over-indulge pattern, that is a problem, if there is an underlying sense of shame or lack of control, that is a problem.
However, if you choose an eating style and it fits your values, there is room for variety, and you aren't constantly struggling with yourself over your eating, then that is great!
Good points, but don't you think, then, it comes down to motivation for the restriction being key to sustainability?
You and I both moderate our carbs for medical reasons. I don't eat gluten for a medical reason.
I'm a vegetarian because I don't like meat and because it doesn't like me back.
Those are very different reasons for restricting than some of the magical thinking involved in the typical dieting restricting that you can see on the boards.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »girlviernes wrote: »re: OP post, I think it is certainly possible to adhere to dietary restrictions long-term, as so many with religious restrictions or ethical restrictions (vegan, vegetarian) do. It's really a matter of seeing how restrictions function in your life. If they increase anxiety and/or obsessiveness to a problematic level, that is a problem, if more restrictions are continually added, that is a problem, if there is a restrict/over-indulge pattern, that is a problem, if there is an underlying sense of shame or lack of control, that is a problem.
However, if you choose an eating style and it fits your values, there is room for variety, and you aren't constantly struggling with yourself over your eating, then that is great!
Good points, but don't you think, then, it comes down to motivation for the restriction being key to sustainability?
You and I both moderate our carbs for medical reasons. I don't eat gluten for a medical reason.
I'm a vegetarian because I don't like meat and because it doesn't like me back.
Those are very different reasons for restricting than some of the magical thinking involved in the typical dieting restricting that you can see on the boards.
It may be magical thinking, but is it the inaccuracy of the thinking that leads to functional problems?
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The last time I ate sugary food I was mean as a snake (sorry snakes aren't really mean, I apologize to all the snakes I just slandered) and then I had gluten too, the last two days of it, and I was a vicious and depressed little beast (I apologize to all the beasts I just slandered).
I guess the question is, how are you making this correlations that XX foods makes you mean. Because whether sugar is from fruit or a piece of chocolate, your body will process it similar. And if you associate the fiber as being keying, what happens when you have chocolate and veggies?
Well maybe it isn't the sugar. Maybe it's a preservative or additive. Maybe it's the chocolate (since that is mostly what I go for) Maybe I should eat a tablespoon of pure sugar and see if that does anything to me.
I know what happens if I have chocolate and veggies, though. Nothing good comes of it. I will crave it and I will not feel well later.
I have intolerance to both lactose and soy. Both of these types of foods eating in excess cause stomach upset, nausea, and other unpleasant physical symptoms, which in turn makes me feel irritable. I can eat certain brands of Greek Yogurt and foods that have traces of soy, but not much more.
So, it is never the actual food property that is affecting my mood, but rather the way I feel when eating it. Or, even the way I beat myself up because it was on the do-not-eat list.
If it's chocolate, could be the caffeine instead of the sugar.
Chocolate and veggies? That's an interesting combination.
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girlviernes wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »girlviernes wrote: »re: OP post, I think it is certainly possible to adhere to dietary restrictions long-term, as so many with religious restrictions or ethical restrictions (vegan, vegetarian) do. It's really a matter of seeing how restrictions function in your life. If they increase anxiety and/or obsessiveness to a problematic level, that is a problem, if more restrictions are continually added, that is a problem, if there is a restrict/over-indulge pattern, that is a problem, if there is an underlying sense of shame or lack of control, that is a problem.
However, if you choose an eating style and it fits your values, there is room for variety, and you aren't constantly struggling with yourself over your eating, then that is great!
Good points, but don't you think, then, it comes down to motivation for the restriction being key to sustainability?
You and I both moderate our carbs for medical reasons. I don't eat gluten for a medical reason.
I'm a vegetarian because I don't like meat and because it doesn't like me back.
Those are very different reasons for restricting than some of the magical thinking involved in the typical dieting restricting that you can see on the boards.
It may be magical thinking, but is it the inaccuracy of the thinking that leads to functional problems?
Not so much the "inaccuracy" of the thinking, as how poor it is a motivation to keep going since it's not really rooted in fact or grounded reason.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »TrailBlazerMN wrote: »When it comes to many aspects of life, not just eating "healthy", there are certain levels of enlightenment or knowledge. At one point in time, we thought the sun revolved around the world. We are more knowledgeable now and realize that the Earth revolves around the sun.
Humans have killed animals for food for hundreds of thousands of years. It's a primitive practice that I feel will eventually go away once we become more enlightened about food and not see it as just carbs, fats, and proteins or even calories. If people knew the harm conventional farming does to our world, or even the conditions of conventional farming, I bet they would think twice about what type of food they ate. Even humane farming practice is primitive because that's how farming was practiced before industrialized farming. So in that sense, we have actually gone backwards with the rise of conventional farming while killing our planet in the process. Yay for us :-/
Before the discovery of calories in the early 19th century, people stayed healthy by being active and eating real, wholesome food. Plain and simple. There was no need to count calories or go to a gym. No need to worry about if someone's getting enough protein or if they need to drink more water. People were just more in tune with their bodies and really listened to them. There was no internet or media to say "you must look like this" or "this diet causes you lose 50 pounds in 12 weeks". If people were more enlightened and had a closer connection with their food, there would be a good chance we would all be healthier, less subconscious about our bodies, and wouldn't have a need to have a "flexible eating" arrangement since the only foods we would consume would be packed with vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients, and antioxidants.
People don't realize how great they can feel until they ditch all the foods that cause them to feel anything but great. For me, this includes ditching wheat, dairy, and chocolate. I'm on the fence if I can eat gluten since barley is hit or miss with me. Just need to do more experimenting. I can't remember the last time I felt like running for miles after eating a big steak or downing some ice cream. Although, ice cream (or just dairy in general) is a funny food for me. I have consumed a half pint of ice cream, took a nap, and felt great when I woke up. However, I have always experienced a crash afterwards. Dairy has some very interesting compounds that play with our physiology in different ways. Overall though, for me, it's best to avoid it. There is no need for dairy in the diet.
When it comes to endless energy, my go-to food is sprouted buckwheat and sprouted lentils with a side of salad and veggies (carrots and celery). When I eat this combo, I instantly have a ton of energy and it lasts. There is no crash afterwards. It's boring food compared to the chemically induced feelings we get from processed foods or the opiate-like characteristics we experience from wheat or dairy but in the long run, your body will thank you for it a million times over.
It can be tough to get in tune with your body and really get biofeedback about a food or meal. Maybe one item in the meal causes the whole meal to make someone feel less than optimal. I have noticed this with salsa. If I eat it alone (who would do that?), I feel great. When I eat it with beans and rice, I can notice a difference.
My main point is that if someone really wants to get to a level of endless energy without caffeine, feeling relaxed about life, sleeping better, and just feeling awesome overall, I would suggest that people stop worrying about calories and make being in tune with their body and the food they put into it a main priority in their life. Calories do matter up to a certain point since eating healthy requires one to eat a lot more. However, they do not dictate how healthy you are. The type of food you put in your body is going to dictate the level of physical, mental, and spiritual health you experience.
This whole romanticized version of what people "used to eat" has got to go away.
The people who used to live in crushing poverty and who faced things like drought, crop failure and coming up empty when they hunted were all too common in the good ol' days.
I'll pass on the once a day gruel and weak ale and have my processed tap water and yogurt.
I would argue that getting back to a closer connection to our food and nature will be what saves us. That and controling our population which has been allowed to explode and tip what the earth can handle by modern farming which is in the long term not sustainable. Certainly this is likely a debate for another day...0 -
herrspoons wrote: »So, what the study seems to be saying is that a flexible diet works and woo woo diets based on exclusion and bizarre eating patterns do not work, provided you don't have a diagnosed medical condition like coeliacs or peanut allergy.
Also, no-one has been able to offer any counter this other than 'dem feels'.
I'll offer you a counter: For every person diagnosed there might be many walking around with allergies or other issues affected by food who don't know it yet. Also, medical science is not a done deal, so more ailments affected by food may be discovered in the future.
Meanwhile, I know this doesn't qualify as a research worthy experiment, but I'd be an idiot not to listen to my body and try to figure out what it wants in order to be healthy, happy, and energetic. It is my body, shabby little temple though it may be, and I have to live in it.
If being thin and eating healthy ever becomes the end goal instead of the means to an end though, I'm in trouble and better seek help. That's the last thing I want, that's no life, and I'm already sometimes aggravated about how much time and energy I put into it. Except when I'm having fun trying to learn nutrition, that I enjoy, difficult though it is for me.0 -
KombuchaCat wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »TrailBlazerMN wrote: »When it comes to many aspects of life, not just eating "healthy", there are certain levels of enlightenment or knowledge. At one point in time, we thought the sun revolved around the world. We are more knowledgeable now and realize that the Earth revolves around the sun.
Humans have killed animals for food for hundreds of thousands of years. It's a primitive practice that I feel will eventually go away once we become more enlightened about food and not see it as just carbs, fats, and proteins or even calories. If people knew the harm conventional farming does to our world, or even the conditions of conventional farming, I bet they would think twice about what type of food they ate. Even humane farming practice is primitive because that's how farming was practiced before industrialized farming. So in that sense, we have actually gone backwards with the rise of conventional farming while killing our planet in the process. Yay for us :-/
Before the discovery of calories in the early 19th century, people stayed healthy by being active and eating real, wholesome food. Plain and simple. There was no need to count calories or go to a gym. No need to worry about if someone's getting enough protein or if they need to drink more water. People were just more in tune with their bodies and really listened to them. There was no internet or media to say "you must look like this" or "this diet causes you lose 50 pounds in 12 weeks". If people were more enlightened and had a closer connection with their food, there would be a good chance we would all be healthier, less subconscious about our bodies, and wouldn't have a need to have a "flexible eating" arrangement since the only foods we would consume would be packed with vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients, and antioxidants.
People don't realize how great they can feel until they ditch all the foods that cause them to feel anything but great. For me, this includes ditching wheat, dairy, and chocolate. I'm on the fence if I can eat gluten since barley is hit or miss with me. Just need to do more experimenting. I can't remember the last time I felt like running for miles after eating a big steak or downing some ice cream. Although, ice cream (or just dairy in general) is a funny food for me. I have consumed a half pint of ice cream, took a nap, and felt great when I woke up. However, I have always experienced a crash afterwards. Dairy has some very interesting compounds that play with our physiology in different ways. Overall though, for me, it's best to avoid it. There is no need for dairy in the diet.
When it comes to endless energy, my go-to food is sprouted buckwheat and sprouted lentils with a side of salad and veggies (carrots and celery). When I eat this combo, I instantly have a ton of energy and it lasts. There is no crash afterwards. It's boring food compared to the chemically induced feelings we get from processed foods or the opiate-like characteristics we experience from wheat or dairy but in the long run, your body will thank you for it a million times over.
It can be tough to get in tune with your body and really get biofeedback about a food or meal. Maybe one item in the meal causes the whole meal to make someone feel less than optimal. I have noticed this with salsa. If I eat it alone (who would do that?), I feel great. When I eat it with beans and rice, I can notice a difference.
My main point is that if someone really wants to get to a level of endless energy without caffeine, feeling relaxed about life, sleeping better, and just feeling awesome overall, I would suggest that people stop worrying about calories and make being in tune with their body and the food they put into it a main priority in their life. Calories do matter up to a certain point since eating healthy requires one to eat a lot more. However, they do not dictate how healthy you are. The type of food you put in your body is going to dictate the level of physical, mental, and spiritual health you experience.
This whole romanticized version of what people "used to eat" has got to go away.
The people who used to live in crushing poverty and who faced things like drought, crop failure and coming up empty when they hunted were all too common in the good ol' days.
I'll pass on the once a day gruel and weak ale and have my processed tap water and yogurt.
I would argue that getting back to a closer connection to our food and nature will be what saves us. That and controling our population which has been allowed to explode and tip what the earth can handle by modern farming which is in the long term not sustainable. Certainly this is likely a debate for another day...
Can we start with the people having 23 kids, many of whom will want large families?0 -
Maybe it's just ad simple as you get cranky because you are hungry. Why look to a specific food to blame it on. You are not the only person that gets cranky when they are hungry.The last time I ate sugary food I was mean as a snake (sorry snakes aren't really mean, I apologize to all the snakes I just slandered) and then I had gluten too, the last two days of it, and I was a vicious and depressed little beast (I apologize to all the beasts I just slandered).
I guess the question is, how are you making this correlations that XX foods makes you mean. Because whether sugar is from fruit or a piece of chocolate, your body will process it similar. And if you associate the fiber as being keying, what happens when you have chocolate and veggies?
Well maybe it isn't the sugar. Maybe it's a preservative or additive. Maybe it's the chocolate (since that is mostly what I go for) Maybe I should eat a tablespoon of pure sugar and see if that does anything to me.
I know what happens if I have chocolate and veggies, though. Nothing good comes of it. I will crave it and I will not feel well later.
Well if I'm still hungry after 2000 calories of ice cream (and I always am) that pretty much negates CICO for me.
Seriously, you don't eat 2000 calories of ice cream? That's an awful lot. Maybe get some help?0 -
Tedebearduff wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »I would tend to think lack of flexibility leads to binge behaviors. Control snaps, the binge and overeating happens because you swear you'll get back on track and never eat the offending substance again. BUT... while you're eating the forbidden fruit, you shove as much as you can into your face because you're never ever having it. Lather, rinse, repeat.
As for food and mood? I used to think they were connected, now I disagree. My moods are entirely separate from my food. Food can't make me anything except not hungry. I enjoy something that's tasty, I get satisfaction from having cooked something delicious, but food has no control over how I feel.
I spent a while trying to untangle wanting to eat to soothe myself. I guess I'm finally there. I think the idea of a restrictive diet is appealing to people who like control, who feel that if they can just do xyz, everything will fall into place. That sort of thinking does go hand in hand with anxiety. It's not related to the eating, but it's typical thinking of someone with anxiety. The peace of surrender and the surety of their own strength hasn't settled into their bones yet.
Hey this is false, your body has a different hormonal response to foods which can/will effect your mood.
Tell me what food will cause someone to be depressed or angry since you are quick to say the statement is false. Let me guess you're talking about dopamine release and want to lump that into a broad statement.
This.0 -
Maybe it's just ad simple as you get cranky because you are hungry. Why look to a specific food to blame it on. You are not the only person that gets cranky when they are hungry.The last time I ate sugary food I was mean as a snake (sorry snakes aren't really mean, I apologize to all the snakes I just slandered) and then I had gluten too, the last two days of it, and I was a vicious and depressed little beast (I apologize to all the beasts I just slandered).
I guess the question is, how are you making this correlations that XX foods makes you mean. Because whether sugar is from fruit or a piece of chocolate, your body will process it similar. And if you associate the fiber as being keying, what happens when you have chocolate and veggies?
Well maybe it isn't the sugar. Maybe it's a preservative or additive. Maybe it's the chocolate (since that is mostly what I go for) Maybe I should eat a tablespoon of pure sugar and see if that does anything to me.
I know what happens if I have chocolate and veggies, though. Nothing good comes of it. I will crave it and I will not feel well later.
Well if I'm still hungry after 2000 calories of ice cream (and I always am) that pretty much negates CICO for me.
Seriously, you don't eat 2000 calories of ice cream? That's an awful lot. Maybe get some help?
Or maybe I should just eat something healthy that fills me up before I hit the 2000 mark? Although after a long hike, I have been known to devour 3 pounds of roast! Yum! But I felt great the next day and went running. I eat that many calories in ice cream, the next day is going to be hell.
0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »TrailBlazerMN wrote: »When it comes to many aspects of life, not just eating "healthy", there are certain levels of enlightenment or knowledge. At one point in time, we thought the sun revolved around the world. We are more knowledgeable now and realize that the Earth revolves around the sun.
Humans have killed animals for food for hundreds of thousands of years. It's a primitive practice that I feel will eventually go away once we become more enlightened about food and not see it as just carbs, fats, and proteins or even calories. If people knew the harm conventional farming does to our world, or even the conditions of conventional farming, I bet they would think twice about what type of food they ate. Even humane farming practice is primitive because that's how farming was practiced before industrialized farming. So in that sense, we have actually gone backwards with the rise of conventional farming while killing our planet in the process. Yay for us :-/
Before the discovery of calories in the early 19th century, people stayed healthy by being active and eating real, wholesome food. Plain and simple. There was no need to count calories or go to a gym. No need to worry about if someone's getting enough protein or if they need to drink more water. People were just more in tune with their bodies and really listened to them. There was no internet or media to say "you must look like this" or "this diet causes you lose 50 pounds in 12 weeks". If people were more enlightened and had a closer connection with their food, there would be a good chance we would all be healthier, less subconscious about our bodies, and wouldn't have a need to have a "flexible eating" arrangement since the only foods we would consume would be packed with vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients, and antioxidants.
People don't realize how great they can feel until they ditch all the foods that cause them to feel anything but great. For me, this includes ditching wheat, dairy, and chocolate. I'm on the fence if I can eat gluten since barley is hit or miss with me. Just need to do more experimenting. I can't remember the last time I felt like running for miles after eating a big steak or downing some ice cream. Although, ice cream (or just dairy in general) is a funny food for me. I have consumed a half pint of ice cream, took a nap, and felt great when I woke up. However, I have always experienced a crash afterwards. Dairy has some very interesting compounds that play with our physiology in different ways. Overall though, for me, it's best to avoid it. There is no need for dairy in the diet.
When it comes to endless energy, my go-to food is sprouted buckwheat and sprouted lentils with a side of salad and veggies (carrots and celery). When I eat this combo, I instantly have a ton of energy and it lasts. There is no crash afterwards. It's boring food compared to the chemically induced feelings we get from processed foods or the opiate-like characteristics we experience from wheat or dairy but in the long run, your body will thank you for it a million times over.
It can be tough to get in tune with your body and really get biofeedback about a food or meal. Maybe one item in the meal causes the whole meal to make someone feel less than optimal. I have noticed this with salsa. If I eat it alone (who would do that?), I feel great. When I eat it with beans and rice, I can notice a difference.
My main point is that if someone really wants to get to a level of endless energy without caffeine, feeling relaxed about life, sleeping better, and just feeling awesome overall, I would suggest that people stop worrying about calories and make being in tune with their body and the food they put into it a main priority in their life. Calories do matter up to a certain point since eating healthy requires one to eat a lot more. However, they do not dictate how healthy you are. The type of food you put in your body is going to dictate the level of physical, mental, and spiritual health you experience.
This whole romanticized version of what people "used to eat" has got to go away.
The people who used to live in crushing poverty and who faced things like drought, crop failure and coming up empty when they hunted were all too common in the good ol' days.
I'll pass on the once a day gruel and weak ale and have my processed tap water and yogurt.
Thankyou!
This is exactly what I was thinking.
It reminded me of eye-rolling my father (when he couldn't see me) as he went on and on about how much better everything was back in the day.
0 -
Only read a few posts because lazy. Agree with the OP, restriction makes me cray cray. I ate "clean" for 4 years and had a shite relationship with food. I do not consciously try to work "bad" food in either, I just eat. I only choose foods based on macro needs (specifically protein) and what I feel like eating.
As for mood and food, I've had issues with depression for YEARS. Like, since I was a kid. Food does not cause me to feel depressed. Chances are if I feel depressed after eating it was because I already felt depressed. Like yesterday. But I'm also at the point where I do feel the need to go back on medication; when I was on medication I rarely had issues, although I was often inconsistent with when I took the meds (sometimes missing a dose) so I did have some issues come up. I figure that with true consistency and possibly a higher dose/different type I would stop having issues altogether.
The only connection that I know exists for me with mood and food is crankiness. If I eat too many carbs (any source) in the morning and possibly at lunch then I become quite hungry, which then further leads to crankiness (hangry). But it's not CARBS themselves making me feel worse, it's the effects of carbs on my body that I am then reacting to. For me to avoid this it's as simple as keeping the carb to protein ratio pretty similar in the meal (e.g. 40g of protein and 50g of carbs or something). Or even just having a high fat breakfast can help because I find that naturally helps me eat a more even-ratio meal.0 -
herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »So, what the study seems to be saying is that a flexible diet works and woo woo diets based on exclusion and bizarre eating patterns do not work, provided you don't have a diagnosed medical condition like coeliacs or peanut allergy.
Also, no-one has been able to offer any counter this other than 'dem feels'.
I'll offer you a counter: For every person diagnosed there might be many walking around with allergies or other issues affected by food who don't know it yet. Also, medical science is not a done deal, so more ailments affected by food may be discovered in the future.
Meanwhile, I know this doesn't qualify as a research worthy experiment, but I'd be an idiot not to listen to my body and try to figure out what it wants in order to be healthy, happy, and energetic. It is my body, shabby little temple though it may be, and I have to live in it.
If being thin and eating healthy ever becomes the end goal instead of the means to an end though, I'm in trouble and better seek help. That's the last thing I want, that's no life, and I'm already sometimes aggravated about how much time and energy I put into it. Except when I'm having fun trying to learn nutrition, that I enjoy, difficult though it is for me.
So, basically 'dem feels'?
You totally ignored the first part of my post in favor of mocking me, but for what? For going by how I feel after I eat certain foods? Mock away, then. I'm still going to do it. And I'm going to do my best to figure out exactly what foods make me feel the best.
Edit: By the way, if that ever turns out to be pop tarts, I'm going to eat them every day.0
This discussion has been closed.
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