Is it possible to lose fat and gain muscle?
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I am thinking if its possible by cutting some kcal intake and carbs? Can achieve that? How has an expetience on that?
Thanks
Losing fat and gaining muscle concurrently is normally called recomp these days although when I started training it was just what nearly everyone did (bulk cut cycles were sole preserve of body builders). Whether it's the better choice for you depends on your goals.
Your calories determine weight loss/gain/maintenance.
Cutting carbs is a red herring - you can recomp with high carb, low carb or whatever (personal choice), personally I would be wary of cutting carbs in case it affects your training performance. Adequate protein is far more significant.
Really it's eating at or around maintenance - if your weight loss/gain is very slow I would still call it recomp. There's a guy on the Stronglifts site for example who very clearly gained good amounts muscle in 3 months and lost fat with a tiny surplus (1lb/month weight gain). More than likely he is genetically gifted though!
For me over 6 months lost 7.5lbs of fat, gained 3.5lbs of LBM for net loss of 4lbs of weight. But that is for me (old, training mostly prioritised on my cycling season, 40 training years, a bit restricted in terms of the big compound lifts due to injuries). You are much younger - but no idea of your current training status or bodyfat which both have a big bearing on speed of progress.
Train hard, eat well and enjoy the ride.0 -
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Lgabrjolek wrote: »"Lean muscle is gained with higher protein intake" So you're telling me that eating less protein than your daily needs are better for gaining LEAN muscle?
Muscle is muscle. Lean refers to the amount of fat and doesn't even apply to types of muscle.You want to gain lean muscle weight, so stay away from bad fatty foods and limit your sugar intake. So JUNK FOOD (food full of sugar and unhealthy fats) is good for your diet regime ?
There are no bad foods, just bad diets. If the rest of your diet is balanced and full of nutrient-dense foods there's no reason you can't have so-called junk food in a portion that fits your calories. I usually have a serving of ice cream at night.If you do a lot of cardio, you will lose weight more rapidly - (this is false too?) . Lift full slow reps and sets. -must be false! Lift as fast as you can to gain, do half reps!
Slow reps are one way to do it but not the only way. You'll only lose more with more cardio if you don't eat back those calories.Push yourself hard and rejuvenate your muscles with proteins (baked fish, chicken breast baked) after your workout. - SO a post workout meal isn't good for you? especially something protein rich and healthy?
http://www.jissn.com/content/pdf/1550-2783-10-5.pdfIf you stay away from sweets and junk food, you can guarantee yourself results. - I have yet to see or meet someone who has a healthy sculpted body while eating garbage food daily... please inform me. You will even gain more energy to perform your workouts. - when I stopped eating processed and junk, it has boosted my energy levels.
You should hang around MFP and check out the physiques of the IIFYM crowd. Most of them are healthy and sculpted while eating a variety of foods including those that you're calling garbage. It's great that your energy levels have improved, but you can't assume that'll be true for everyone.MY BEST ADVICE: NEVER SKIP BREAKFAST! SKIPPING CAN ACTUALLY MAKE YOU GAIN UNWANTED FAT! - The reason I say don't skip breakfast? I believe that it is important to eat it because morning workouts are no good on an empty stomach in fact no workout is healthy on an empty stomach.
I suppose you guys are right though, I am completely wrong.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155494
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19943985
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17483007
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/820577
Gym performance is largely personal. I have to eat before a workout or it'll suck, but I know plenty of people who have success with fasted workouts. But meal timing/frequency is a personal preference thing as long as calorie/macro goals are being met overall as you'll see from those studies.
Just because something works for you that doesn't mean it's the only way. Most of the things you're telling OP to do are fine, but unnecessary. And about the whole community "support" thing, MrM and the others are being supportive of the OP by providing accurate information, and really being supportive of you too although not the way you'd like. You absolutely will get called out for posting incorrect information here; that's one of things I like about MFP.0 -
ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »
There are no bad foods, just bad diets. If the rest of your diet is balanced and full of nutrient-dense foods there's no reason you can't have so-called junk food in a portion that fits your calories. I usually have a serving of ice cream at night.
Correct me if I'm wrong, for example if one sandwich of Burger King contains 1000 kcal, 30g protein, 50g carbs, 75g fat (just an example) will be same for my body as meal of lean fresh beef steak + raw garden salad + olive oil if it has the same macros?0 -
hanymamdouh wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »
There are no bad foods, just bad diets. If the rest of your diet is balanced and full of nutrient-dense foods there's no reason you can't have so-called junk food in a portion that fits your calories. I usually have a serving of ice cream at night.
Correct me if I'm wrong, for example if one sandwich of Burger King contains 1000 kcal, 30g protein, 50g carbs, 75g fat (just an example) will be same for my body as meal of lean fresh beef steak + raw garden salad + olive oil if it has the same macros?
I'm very interested in learning about this too!
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hanymamdouh wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »
There are no bad foods, just bad diets. If the rest of your diet is balanced and full of nutrient-dense foods there's no reason you can't have so-called junk food in a portion that fits your calories. I usually have a serving of ice cream at night.
Correct me if I'm wrong, for example if one sandwich of Burger King contains 1000 kcal, 30g protein, 50g carbs, 75g fat (just an example) will be same for my body as meal of lean fresh beef steak + raw garden salad + olive oil if it has the same macros?
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/hormonal-responses-to-a-fast-food-meal-compared-with-nutritionally-comparable-meals-of-different-composition-research-review.html
Interesting article on that topic. The study is small and for a very short period of time, so it has limitations, but it's interesting nonetheless.
Basically though, your second example might have more micros, but if you've already gotten enough micros for the day they'll just pass through your system. As Eric Helms says, you don't get extra credit after your nutrient needs are met.0 -
3600 on maintenance. I'm very slightly cutting just starting this week. 3200ish at the moment. I'm a cardio junkie though.
And yes, I've been going about 9 months on defined programs. 12 months in all. First three months I was all over the place though. No rhyme or reason.
Ndj, I think we are doing the same program currently. I throw in an extra middle exercise on it.
are you doing the four day "power/burn" split from muscle and strength?0 -
Lgabrjolek wrote: »To me bad fat is TRANS FAT. When I say sugar I mean getting all of your sugar intake from chocolate bars processed foods. I didn't state that it is indeed going to make you gain unwanted fat. I said that it CAN - it is a possibility. For your "empty stomach" comment I did not claim it to be a fact though when doing HIIT, it is not recommended. "Starvation mode" is directed for people who are not familiar with practicing intermittent fasting.
Pretty much what I was getting at is all in the video on the link posted by dmeyerman.
Thanks.
ahh yes the straw man train is never rate…
who is this person that said we should get all our intake from sugar chocolate bars, and processed foods? WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO??????????0 -
hanymamdouh wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »
There are no bad foods, just bad diets. If the rest of your diet is balanced and full of nutrient-dense foods there's no reason you can't have so-called junk food in a portion that fits your calories. I usually have a serving of ice cream at night.
Correct me if I'm wrong, for example if one sandwich of Burger King contains 1000 kcal, 30g protein, 50g carbs, 75g fat (just an example) will be same for my body as meal of lean fresh beef steak + raw garden salad + olive oil if it has the same macros?
are we talking same calories and same macros? If yes, then the answer to your question is yes.0 -
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hanymamdouh wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »
There are no bad foods, just bad diets. If the rest of your diet is balanced and full of nutrient-dense foods there's no reason you can't have so-called junk food in a portion that fits your calories. I usually have a serving of ice cream at night.
Correct me if I'm wrong, for example if one sandwich of Burger King contains 1000 kcal, 30g protein, 50g carbs, 75g fat (just an example) will be same for my body as meal of lean fresh beef steak + raw garden salad + olive oil if it has the same macros?
are we talking same calories and same macros? If yes, then the answer to your question is yes.
I totally don't agree with you, nutrients are not only protein, carb and fat, there are also micronutrients as well as cooking method that has big deal. Also breaking down food during digestion process is very important. How does your body break down burger sandwich is different than raw food. Also don't forget the effect of GI which is result of how food is processed. I've read too much studies and articles and all claim the same fact, junk food is junk food, it is junk because it is full of unhealthy components, and what do they mean by unhealthy is the break down way and the added components beside major macro/micro nutrients. For example frying potato in olive oil will give you same amount of macro/micros but it is different than gaining same nutrients from fresh/unprocessed food.0 -
hanymamdouh wrote: »Excuse me ladies and gentlemen, I do agree with Lgabrjolek because that's what I did myself, and result is reducing body fat % while gaining muscle mass. I'm not certified trainer or doctor, I'm just an engineer who used to read, read, read, and read then turn on my analysis skills. I just want to consent that what Lgabrjolek is correct and works because it really works with me. MrM27, I don't know why you are so aggressive, two people here claim they did it, so why all those info is wrong? Please review your information MAY BE you are wrong, or some misunderstanding is in the middle.
Thanks!
I already clearly stated in a long worded post exactly why what she said was wrong. If you couldn't be bothered to read it or understand it then that's your problem. If you read what she wrote and what I wrote and stoll think she's the one that is right then you just don't understand how the human body works. And again, that's your problem.
Again I'm still astonished you are so aggressive, it is such a discussion, and we need to better understand how our human body works.
As I said before, you may be wrong, MAY BE not YOU ARE, and also may be there is misunderstanding, we are not certified persons and may not express our beliefs using correct terminology so you may got words wrong.
Anyway thanks for the great discussion. I'm out as you are not open for discussion.0 -
hanymamdouh wrote: »hanymamdouh wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »
There are no bad foods, just bad diets. If the rest of your diet is balanced and full of nutrient-dense foods there's no reason you can't have so-called junk food in a portion that fits your calories. I usually have a serving of ice cream at night.
Correct me if I'm wrong, for example if one sandwich of Burger King contains 1000 kcal, 30g protein, 50g carbs, 75g fat (just an example) will be same for my body as meal of lean fresh beef steak + raw garden salad + olive oil if it has the same macros?
are we talking same calories and same macros? If yes, then the answer to your question is yes.
I totally don't agree with you, nutrients are not only protein, carb and fat, there are also micronutrients as well as cooking method that has big deal. Also breaking down food during digestion process is very important. How does your body break down burger sandwich is different than raw food. Also don't forget the effect of GI which is result of how food is processed. I've read too much studies and articles and all claim the same fact, junk food is junk food, it is junk because it is full of unhealthy components, and what do they mean by unhealthy is the break down way and the added components beside major macro/micro nutrients. For example frying potato in olive oil will give you same amount of macro/micros but it is different than gaining same nutrients from fresh/unprocessed food.
Usually studies that claim to find a huge difference are not comparing meals with the same calories and macros. There was one recently comparing Paleo to SAD for example. The Paleo diet had 12% more protein which makes a difference. People are not advocating for SAD anyway, we're just saying that if you eat mostly fresh or whole foods and meet your nutritional needs then a burger or some ice cream isn't going to hurt.0 -
ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »Usually studies that claim to find a huge difference are not comparing meals with the same calories and macros. There was one recently comparing Paleo to SAD for example. The Paleo diet had 12% more protein which makes a difference. People are not advocating for SAD anyway, we're just saying that if you eat mostly fresh or whole foods and meet your nutritional needs then a burger or some ice cream isn't going to hurt.
Theoretically it is correct. I'm discussing other issue, for example studies proofed that raising temperature of tomato help to increase the effect of antioxidants components in it. This is shows how processing food is major role player.
Also I believe in one rule that body must be exposed to unhealthy conditions in order to initiate and stimulate immune system and other defense mechanism. It is same theory of vaccination.
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hanymamdouh wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »Usually studies that claim to find a huge difference are not comparing meals with the same calories and macros. There was one recently comparing Paleo to SAD for example. The Paleo diet had 12% more protein which makes a difference. People are not advocating for SAD anyway, we're just saying that if you eat mostly fresh or whole foods and meet your nutritional needs then a burger or some ice cream isn't going to hurt.
Theoretically it is correct. I'm discussing other issue, for example studies proofed that raising temperature of tomato help to increase the effect of antioxidants components in it. This is shows how processing food is major role player.
Also I believe in one rule that body must be exposed to unhealthy conditions in order to initiate and stimulate immune system and other defense mechanism. It is same theory of vaccination.
Maybe it would help us to get on the same page if you post the studies to which you're referring and tell us what conclusions you're drawing as a result.0 -
ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »
Maybe it would help us to get on the same page if you post the studies to which you're referring and tell us what conclusions you're drawing as a result.
This is for the tomato example
The document:
http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=/BJN/BJN99_06/S0007114507868486a.pdf&code=f49013aaa70a5c145367dab8427fc72d
The article
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/raw-veggies-are-healthier/
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You guys all seem to be really knowledgeable, and as it has been rightly pointed out, different things work for different people. Skipping breakfast I do not believe to be any better or any worse than eating it. What matters is counting your macros and calories in vs calories out.
I'm very interested in learning more about IF and fasted training, I wonder if any of you could add any input to my recent post please?
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/31557969#Comment_315579690 -
hanymamdouh wrote: »hanymamdouh wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »
There are no bad foods, just bad diets. If the rest of your diet is balanced and full of nutrient-dense foods there's no reason you can't have so-called junk food in a portion that fits your calories. I usually have a serving of ice cream at night.
Correct me if I'm wrong, for example if one sandwich of Burger King contains 1000 kcal, 30g protein, 50g carbs, 75g fat (just an example) will be same for my body as meal of lean fresh beef steak + raw garden salad + olive oil if it has the same macros?
are we talking same calories and same macros? If yes, then the answer to your question is yes.
I totally don't agree with you, nutrients are not only protein, carb and fat, there are also micronutrients as well as cooking method that has big deal. Also breaking down food during digestion process is very important. How does your body break down burger sandwich is different than raw food. Also don't forget the effect of GI which is result of how food is processed. I've read too much studies and articles and all claim the same fact, junk food is junk food, it is junk because it is full of unhealthy components, and what do they mean by unhealthy is the break down way and the added components beside major macro/micro nutrients. For example frying potato in olive oil will give you same amount of macro/micros but it is different than gaining same nutrients from fresh/unprocessed food.
your flaw is assuming that you eat the fried potato in a vacuum and that is the only thing that a person would consume.
so, if my day consists of eggs, egg whites, bacon, whole wheat bread, turkey, yogurt, and then for dinner I have fish, vegetables, and fry some potato in olive oil, and hten have ice cream for dessert is that then "unhealthy" because I fried some potatoes in olive oil?
please post said studies that you are referring to.
and yes 1000 calories of burger king = 1000 calories of raw meat...(who the hell eats raw meat anyway?)0 -
To answer the original question: yes, it is possible to lose weight and gain muscle. I did; BUT, I was skinny fat and not very strong to start...so that was a big advantage for me. Here are my suggestions: lift heavy, high protein, small calorie deficit, some cardio.0
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And in conclusion every body is different so what works for one doesn't for another. Trial and error is what I think.0
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And in conclusion every body is different so what works for one doesn't for another. Trial and error is what I think.
actually no, we are not ...
gain muscle = eat in a surplus for everyone
calorie deficit = lose body fat
maintenance = recomp
caveats:
untrained beginners can have newbie gains and build some muscle in a deficit.
high performance athletes may be able to build some muscle in a deficit
t0 -
And in conclusion every body is different so what works for one doesn't for another. Trial and error is what I think.
actually no, we are not ...
gain muscle = eat in a surplus for everyone
calorie deficit = lose body fat
maintenance = recomp
caveats:
untrained beginners can have newbie gains and build some muscle in a deficit.
high performance athletes may be able to build some muscle in a deficit
t
this. the whole 'every body is different' argument is not seeing the forest for the trees. if all bodies (aside from the outliers with medical conditions) didn't function in the same way, we would never be able to draw any scientific conclusions about the human body, ever. Science works *because* we are all pretty much the same.0 -
Contrary to popular belief from many fitness sites and magazines, gaining muscle is a long painstaking task. Where many get confused is when they feel stronger and see more muscle definition, everyone thinks they gained muscle. So what you really need to figure out is how much muscle you really want to gain (if any), and create a program on doing it.Thanks for advice!! So you think its better to go for bulk, consume more kcal, and after few weeks start to to do more cardio and less kcal? Would be faster?
Possible yes. It takes a lot of attention to detail and it does take a longer route to achieve. A great source is Alan Aragon (who's an MFP member) and Lyle McDonald.I am thinking if its possible by cutting some kcal intake and carbs? Can achieve that? How has an expetience on that?
Thanks
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 0 -
For many, YEARS. Just on a regular bulk and cut cycle for me, from 19 to about 23 years old I added on 35lbs of weight with maybe 2/3 of that being muscle at most. And that was at a surplus.Yes, you can. You have to eat at maintenance levels or just slightly under. The process is slow and takes a looong time according to most.
Possible yes. It takes a lot of attention to detail and it does take a longer route to achieve. A great source is Alan Aragon (who's an MFP member) and Lyle McDonald.I am thinking if its possible by cutting some kcal intake and carbs? Can achieve that? How has an expetience on that?
Thanks
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
How long?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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LOL at the broscience ITT and using bodybuilding.com as a source. Critical thinking is a lost art0
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It's a "clean" eating "short cut". If one doesn't plan to eat that way the rest of their life, then the "shred" doesn't last long. Also doing this isn't really going to increase muscle mass. More likely to help retain what muscle is there.Try this resource and take what you can from it. It is mostly about diet and exercise, not so much all the suppliments imo.
Jim Stoppani 6 week shortcut-to-shred nutrition overview
Would say great for a competitor for pre comp. The average gym person, not so much.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 0 -
What is "bulky muscle"? There is no such thing. Skeletal muscle is just that, skeletal muscle. When you increase it, it's just lean muscle. You can accumulate more fat around the muscle, but that doesn't change the "lean" muscle.Lgabrjolek wrote: »Just to clarify. Lean muscle is different from 'bulky muscle'
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0
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